Parenting from the pulpit

[+Sherapy]

Bella

I would think in that case it was a matter of supervision although accidents do happen.

I would imagine since the child was riding a tricycle she was small enough for the need to be supervised while playing in any area with cars.

My thoughts exactly Star undrestanding the development of a child helps in parenting also a class will take care of that......or a book if one can't get to a class, i don't agree with these people who wing parenting.......

[novaceleste]

I agree with Star on that one. A child that is 3 should definetly have supervision.

[Beckys_Mom]

One thing i've always said is im never going to be like my father...or how my father treated me...I've forgiven him and still love him dearly, he beat me with the belt often, left me in fear, hit me with shoes, a stick- you name it. Only from here and now can i say what kind of father i will be- but i do agree- maybe when i do have my child i will be overcome with love that i wouldnt dare spank him/her- but we will see...From where i stand now- theres an extreme and many parents cross the line with discipline- but i still believe a spanking doesn't do emotional or physical harm to your child. Yet if a child is truely abused, truely himilaited either pysically or emotionally then yes it clearly effects the child- but most kids that just got a "spanking" are fine as adults and infact say they probably deserved it. The thing is as they get older- if you teach your kids and be so sensetive and humble you will notice they will take advantage of this. They'll grow up seeing you as being very lenient and layed back and that they could get away with anything- and if they get caught they'll just get a "talking to"- i know thats how early teens act...I was one myself.

I think kids react differently to each "guardian". Some do co-operate and listen through talk alone and thats fantastic...Yet i've seen problem children, so have you Becs- i bet ya its so hard to control and maintain a problem child. If you can talk to a child- and they listen then they'll never even know of the word spank- but if you talk to a child- they disobey....you talk more...they still disobey...you plead...you beg...you offer candy,toys anything and they STILL disobey then what? Honestly. Some children dont "react" to talk and some parents lose control with how to stop this. No parent wants to hit their child and no parent can truely enjoy it- but Children need to understand you are their parent and their authority and if kind loving words dont change their ways then honestly what the hell will?

1st off all Ramster..I am sorry your dad did what he did...and I am sure much like my dad when he used me as a punching bag he now regrets it

You say that kids act differently towards other guardians..well that is true to a certain level...but think about it.....my dad was also abused by his dad, his dad used to split my dad open with a poker, my dad even ran away from home many times...as far as Londo and back...his grandfather Pat..used to beat the living tar out of my dad too....he never reacted differently to either of them both his father and his grandfather...he feared them BOTH.............so you see the reason as to why my two lil neices react differently and do what they are told by my dad is because they where so used to being spanked by my brother a lot...and my brother NEVER sat them down and talked to them...but my dad did.....if my dad had of spanked them in the same way my brother did and my brother even told my dad to do so if they step out of line....the two girls would react the same way to my dad as they do my brother (their dad)

Another thing..my mom very rarely hit us ever...in fact she talked more to us....she did punish us the odd once and a while by making us go to our room and time out...but we respected her a lot more than our dad....we listened to her more so...and soon enough she never had to chastise us because we didn't want to upset her...after all she was too nice to us..so why should we???...We answered our dad back..and he kept hitting us...we lost all respect for him...thats why we played up in the 1st place

[stargazer123]

Shadow.

I think there are many people if not most in your situation. There are many parents who do not agree on discipline. This is just my personal view but i see it like this; my children are my most important investment in this life. I want them to grow up and help others, and love others, and respect others. My fiancee has no children so it was hard for him coming in. He grew up in a spanking home as well. However we began reading together and realizing for us that we needed to set goals within the discipline but also for rewards and positive encouragement as well.

So we first set realistic goals that we like the children to achieve and we make them a part of that. We do both short term and long term goals. When the goal is reached the children are proud of themselves. They feel they have accomplished something. When the goal is not reached we discuss what we can do to reach it and we try again. This is just one of our methods. It didn't work over night by any means. Sometimes we did use rewards and over time the children just became happy to meet their goals. They even keep little charts that they like to write down stuff for the day. its been fun and sometimes its trial and error of finding what works. But the great part is that as a parent I learned to set my own goals better. They even look at my chart and remark on it... Sometimes when they don't want to talk to me they'll leave me notes saying I really hurt their feelings and their upset.

There are alot of options out there and when you find something that works besides the easy way, it is really rewarding. Kids are going to mess up. I am an adult and I still make mistakes even knowing the consequences. The funny thing is by instilling goals with the children it has taught me to be more responsible in my own life. its a process I tell you and its different for every kid and sometimes it takes every ounce of energy but I want to be able to say, "I did the best I could." Just wanted to share but I know its hard when two people don't agree on what to do. I was in that situation and in some ways I still am so I understand completely.

[ShaunZero]

Bella that is very sad your friend lost her child even in that i can't see beating her, if mom knew she didn't understand the instructions Mom should of been there or not allowed her to ride around in a dangerous area to begin with, most don't let their children play in the street ya know....

Right there, you jump to the conclusion that she didn't understand the instructions, instead of thinking that QUITE POSSIBLY the child just didn't want to listen.

This topics are getting old, and I know that all kids react differently to different methods, no one method works. And I know wich method worked for me. Say whatever you must about that. Call my parents horrible, say they can't parent, whatever. I really could care less, lol. I've never met one person in real life who was this apposed to spanking. Hell, most americans agree with spanking(when necessary), and if most americans spank, and it screws you as bad as you claim it does Sheri, then more than half of America should be psychos and suicidal maniacs.

Edited March 13, 2006 by ZeroShadow

[Bella-Angelique]

I would imagine since the child was riding a tricycle she was small enough for the need to be supervised while playing in any area with cars.

She was not supposed to be there at all and she knew it.

She also knew that all that ever happened to her when she chose to disobey was another talk.

The mom was a moron and the kid was a five year old sneaky disrespectful brat.

I was sad when I heard the kid was killed and considered her mother to blame for it, as did the authorites at first. She was cleared. She was not neglectful, just sucked at raising a kid.

[Beckys_Mom]

Right there, you jump to the conclusion that she didn't understand the instructions, instead of thinking that QUITE POSSIBLY the child just didn't want to listen.

This topics are getting old,

It's still the mothers job to keep her child away from danger...

this topics are getting old..LOL love the grammar fine don't respond...as they say...if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen<--plz note it's just an old saying

Edited March 13, 2006 by Beckys_Mom

[+Sherapy]

Right there, you jump to the conclusion that she didn't understand the instructions, instead of thinking that QUITE POSSIBLY the child just didn't want to listen.

This topics are getting old, and I know that all kids react differently to different methods, no one method works. And I know wich method worked for me. Say whatever you must about that. Call my parents horrible, say they can't parent, whatever. I really could care less, lol. I've never met one person in real life who was this apposed to spanking. Hell, most americans agree with spanking(when necessary), and if most americans spank, and it screws you as bad as you claim it does Sheri, then more than half of America should be psychos and suicidal maniacs.

the method of beating a kid using corporal punishment never works to raise a healthy whole child, it works to create afraid defensive dysfunctional peopel its no surprise ther are alot of messed up people.....Its not inherently wrong to use corporal measures to raise a child no more than its wrong to go the route of hawaii to get to louisiana,, if you say you want a healthy kid you use methods that raise a healthy kid , its about the destination and in this case you get what you put into it.......You are being defensive and feeling picked on which is interestingly a effect of your kind of parenting its not personal against you read the studys i provided Zero.......

Bella, at three a child would not know the ramifications of the situation she was in i feel the mother didn't either and its unfortuante she learned this the hard way, it makes no sense to me to give a child a book of matches and expect them not to burn themselves....at three, this is a parent who had no parenting skills, this is not the sort of parenting i'm talking about this is the same as the parent who uses spanking as a means to teach something its ignorant uniformed parenting...you are not familiar with organic parenting.....

Edited March 13, 2006 by Sheri berri

[+Sherapy]

Shadow.

I think there are many people if not most in your situation. There are many parents who do not agree on discipline. This is just my personal view but i see it like this; my children are my most important investment in this life. I want them to grow up and help others, and love others, and respect others. My fiancee has no children so it was hard for him coming in. He grew up in a spanking home as well. However we began reading together and realizing for us that we needed to set goals within the discipline but also for rewards and positive encouragement as well.

So we first set realistic goals that we like the children to achieve and we make them a part of that. We do both short term and long term goals. When the goal is reached the children are proud of themselves. They feel they have accomplished something. When the goal is not reached we discuss what we can do to reach it and we try again. This is just one of our methods. It didn't work over night by any means. Sometimes we did use rewards and over time the children just became happy to meet their goals. They even keep little charts that they like to write down stuff for the day. its been fun and sometimes its trial and error of finding what works. But the great part is that as a parent I learned to set my own goals better. They even look at my chart and remark on it... Sometimes when they don't want to talk to me they'll leave me notes saying I really hurt their feelings and their upset.

There are alot of options out there and when you find something that works besides the easy way, it is really rewarding. Kids are going to mess up. I am an adult and I still make mistakes even knowing the consequences. The funny thing is by instilling goals with the children it has taught me to be more responsible in my own life. its a process I tell you and its different for every kid and sometimes it takes every ounce of energy but I want to be able to say, "I did the best I could." Just wanted to share but I know its hard when two people don't agree on what to do. I was in that situation and in some ways I still am so I understand completely.

An excellent example of what a parent is.......Thankyou for your contributions Star

[Imaginary Friend]

She was not supposed to be there at all and she knew it.

She also knew that all that ever happened to her when she chose to disobey was another talk.

The mom was a moron and the kid was a five year old sneaky disrespectful brat.

I was sad when I heard the kid was killed and considered her mother to blame for it, as did the authorites at first. She was cleared. She was not neglectful, just sucked at raising a kid.

Ok, so what is it? The kid was three or five!?

"The mom was a moron and the kid was a five year old sneaky disrespectful brat."

That is dead now!

That one you are speaking of as if they earned it!? That child you condemn here, long after they suffered for their actions.

I'll pray for you.

And for any child near you.

[ShadowDancer]

So we first set realistic goals that we like the children to achieve and we make them a part of that. We do both short term and long term goals. When the goal is reached the children are proud of themselves. They feel they have accomplished something. When the goal is not reached we discuss what we can do to reach it and we try again. This is just one of our methods. It didn't work over night by any means. Sometimes we did use rewards and over time the children just became happy to meet their goals. They even keep little charts that they like to write down stuff for the day. its been fun and sometimes its trial and error of finding what works. But the great part is that as a parent I learned to set my own goals better. They even look at my chart and remark on it...

Exactly, they do that at my son's school and he suggested we do it at home. The only thing that confuses him though is that his father and I share split custody. So sometimes I wonder what goes on at his other home...

But he quickly noticed that when he has a better week with us, we are more easy-going and rewards are plentiful.

There are alot of options out there and when you find something that works besides the easy way, it is really rewarding. Kids are going to mess up. I am an adult and I still make mistakes even knowing the consequences. The funny thing is by instilling goals with the children it has taught me to be more responsible in my own life. its a process I tell you and its different for every kid and sometimes it takes every ounce of energy but I want to be able to say, "I did the best I could."

exactly right again, we do what we can with what we have.

As for myself, I didn't have much to go on. My childhood is far from a basis to go on. So it's like starting from scratch, with no clue what to do. lol. So trial and error it has been.

But, violence was never a part of it, if something doesn't feel right, I won't do it. And that method of discipline, well. you get the point.

[hyperactive]

zero,

you are a model for victims defending the justification for their victimization.

I have heard it applied to so many scenarios, and it always echos the same base issues.

[+Sherapy]

Ok, so what is it? The kid was three or five!?

"The mom was a moron and the kid was a five year old sneaky disrespectful brat."

That is dead now!

That one you are speaking of as if they earned it!? That child you condemn here, long after they suffered for their actions.

I'll pray for you.

And for any child near you.

Bella dose not know a child for a child, we did not alow my hubby's mom to

to oversee our children unsupervised and it saddens me but she had this sort of mentality, if something went wrong it would be on me becasue i know better and when one knows better they do better.........not my little child.......But this is not to pick on Bella this is to raise awareness that the commitment of parenting isn't to be taken lightly nor should we carry on the traditions of our ancestors we know so much more now, its time to make changes after all these children are the future........

[Beckys_Mom]

She was not supposed to be there at all and she knew it.

She also knew that all that ever happened to her when she chose to disobey was another talk.

The mom was a moron and the kid was a five year old sneaky disrespectful brat.

I was sad when I heard the kid was killed and considered her mother to blame for it, as did the authorites at first. She was cleared. She was not neglectful, just sucked at raising a kid.

Bella you need help How does a 5 year old take it's mom serious..kids that age are easy lead down the garden path they dont know any different.....where you such the lil saint at the age of 5?? You have clearly showed you know nothing of lil kids..and I can't get over you sitting there all smug calling a dead child names WTF?? If that happened to my child and I heard anyone come out with that in front of me...may god have mercy on their souls and I mean anyone....what happened to that lil girl was tragic

Edited March 13, 2006 by Beckys_Mom

[ShaunZero]

zero,

you are a model for victims defending the justification for their victimization.

I have heard it applied to so many scenarios, and it always echos the same base issues.

And your reasons would be? I was a victom? Damn, I guess being a victom has become a good thing!

She was not supposed to be there at all and she knew it.

She also knew that all that ever happened to her when she chose to disobey was another talk.

Heh, same reason I needed a spanking. They tried many things. If I knew that I could do bad things and just get a talk if I was caught, I wasn't scared to do it. A talk, hah, big deal.

I think it is those that think that all kids should be taught the same way are the one need a reality check.

Edited March 13, 2006 by ZeroShadow

[Beckys_Mom]

And your reasons would be? I was a victom? Damn, I guess being a victom has become a good thing!

Heh, same reason I needed a spanking. They tried many things. If I knew that I could do bad things and just get a talk if I was caught, I wasn't scared to do it. A talk, hah, big deal.

only in your case

[ShaunZero]

only in your case

My point exactly. Some kids actualy respond better to spankings.

Note: No one should ever HIT a child.

[+Sherapy]

My point exactly. Some kids actualy respond better to spankings.

Note: No one should ever HIT a child.

Zero you are freaking me out here, Hopefully you will turn it around like Star and Bec's ma .....You are evidence not to hit a kid, my heart goes out to you....

Edited March 13, 2006 by Sheri berri

[Beckys_Mom]

And your reasons would be? I was a victom? Damn, I guess being a victom has become a good thing!

Heh, same reason I needed a spanking. They tried many things. If I knew that I could do bad things and just get a talk if I was caught, I wasn't scared to do it. A talk, hah, big deal.

I think it is those that think that all kids should be taught the same way are the one need a reality check.

You have no idea do you...this is why you have turned out the way you have...showing arrogance in every post.....I only WISH I had of been talked to...gee Zero you must think in your lil head that ALL kids that get spanked think along the same lines as you and thats that...think again...all parents will tell their kids after a spanking....it will do you the world of good...you will thank me some day....it wont do you any harm...I have heard ALL of that crap before and it don't wash

[stargazer123]

She was not supposed to be there at all and she knew it.

She also knew that all that ever happened to her when she chose to disobey was another talk.

The mom was a moron and the kid was a five year old sneaky disrespectful brat.

I was sad when I heard the kid was killed and considered her mother to blame for it, as did the authorites at first. She was cleared. She was not neglectful, just sucked at raising a kid.

bella I have to disagree. I never would never let my children ride a tricycle in the street without me walking beside them. I don't care if she spanked the little girl or talked to her the difference still seems a matter of supervision in my mind.

You are basically making a point that all the mother did was talk to her and leads me to believe that the child disobeyed because all the mother did was talk to her. This has nothing to do with it. Most children at the age of 5 do not understand the full dangers of a moving vehicle. It doesn't matter if you talk to them or spank them you need to be with them. That to me is the bottom line. Most 5 year olds are sneaky as you call it, they're kids. my kids were. I don't know the whole story but there is a fine line between sucking as a parent and being neglectful. They are almost one in the same to me.

Edited March 13, 2006 by stargazer123

[+joc]

Bella you need help blink.gif How does a 5 year old take it's mom serious..kids that age are easy lead down the garden path they dont know any different.....where you such the lil saint at the age of 5?? You have clearly showed you know nothing of lil kids

The fact is that the kid was not at fault. The mother should have been convicted of negligent homicide. It had nothing to do with punishment vs. talking, rather simply neglect. You don't tell a 5 year old not to play in the street and expect them to just robotishly obey. ABC news did a story a year or so ago involving a bunch of kids and guns....these kids, 1st graders I think, were given a very indepth 'discussion' about the danger of guns...What do you do if you find a gun Johnny? Tell a grown-up. That's right Johnny...good boy.....all of these kids 'understood' never, ever play with guns, always tell an adult if you see a gun, etc. Then these same kids were immediately placed in a class room where guns were very easy to find. In mere minutes these kids were all playing with the guns, pointing them at each other, sticking the barrel in their mouths, etc.

The point is: kids don't listen. Kids don't understand. Kids can't be trusted. Kids will absolutely for no apparent reason do the most stupid things that defy any logic. That is because: Kids don't think logically. I.e. Kids don't think.

Spanking is a good way to get a kids attention. As a punishment it isn't a good one.

Hitting is child abuse and should be reported to the authorities. Period.

[Beckys_Mom]

The fact is that the kid was not at fault. The mother should have been convicted of negligent homicide. It had nothing to do with punishment vs. talking, rather simply neglect. You don't tell a 5 year old not to play in the street and expect them to just robotishly obey. ABC news did a story a year or so ago involving a bunch of kids and guns....these kids, 1st graders I think, were given a very indepth 'discussion' about the danger of guns...What do you do if you find a gun Johnny? Tell a grown-up. That's right Johnny...good boy.....all of these kids 'understood' never, ever play with guns, always tell an adult if you see a gun, etc. Then these same kids were immediately placed in a class room where guns were very easy to find. In mere minutes these kids were all playing with the guns, pointing them at each other, sticking the barrel in their mouths, etc.

The point is: kids don't listen. Kids don't understand. Kids can't be trusted. Kids will absolutely for no apparent reason do the most stupid things that defy any logic. That is because: Kids don't think logically. I.e. Kids don't think.

Spanking is a good way to get a kids attention. As a punishment it isn't a good one.

Hitting is child abuse and should be reported to the authorities. Period.

Tell me joc...are you a parent? and spanking is still hitting... punching and usung something that will really harm a child is completely different alltogether...abuse!!!

It wasn't the childs fault...but what shocked me was there was Bella sitting there calling a dead child names

[Beckys_Mom]

Spanking (1) (noun)

Beating on buttocks

a beating with the flat of the hand on somebody’s buttocks, given as punishment

It's funny how the ones that are FOR spanking/beating a child are not parents themselves...but think they know best than the real parents who do know what it's like weird

Edited March 13, 2006 by Beckys_Mom

[+Sherapy]

Joc, you would not have guns around, as parents we have to be aware no spanking is gonna guarentee the child doesn't find the gun.....As parents we have to keep things safe for the kids own good, tha mother didn't know any better lets face it i have started a thread and a few times I have said you can't leave parenting to winging it, you should take the time to know about a child,, the development and be prepared to be avaliable and watching them, no child at five should of been playing in traffic, their are parks etc....I think it serves as an example that we know very little about parenting and we should take a lesson, we go to school to learn more about subjects very little about parenting, the one thing that is important......

[hyperactive]

here's one for all the mothers in the thread:

you have shared quite a bit about your experiences,

now let me ask you your views on verbal "abuse"?

people generalize in their language, which is very damaging in any relationship.

here is an example:

the "mother" (could also be father, older brother, nanny, aunt, uncle.....) could say:

"you stupid little child"

or

"that was a stupid thing you did"

I am sure you can all see the great differences in these statements and the effects on the one hearing them and the relationship.

input?