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Sanjuro

America’s Brutal Tactics

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Sanjuro

user posted image

Naturally enough, few details of what American troops do in Iraq and Afghanistan reach the nation's television screens, the main source of news for most Americans. American television takes the approach of the New York Times when it refers to professional soldiers as GIs, as though they were humble mechanics and bricklayers of America drafted into the titanic struggle against Hitler and Tojo.

But if you are genuinely interested in discovering the truth, there are plenty of sources for first-hand information. And anyone taking a little time to search through some of these comes away with a sick feeling.

From several ex-soldiers comes a vivid image of America's house-to-house methods of searching for "insurgents." A small block of C-4 plastique is fixed to the front door of a house, the door is blown in, and several armored giants rush through the shock and smoke with their automatic weapons at the ready. Women and children are held to one side at gunpoint, while any men are taken roughly for questioning. In most cases, the men have nothing worthwhile to say, but they and other members of their families are left with a terrifying experience they will never forget.

These violent procedures have been repeated thousands of times, both in Iraq and in the mountain villages of Afghanistan. Could this be part of what Condoleezza Rice meant when she said recently in Britain that despite thousands of tactical mistakes, America's basic strategy was sound? Can you imagine her saying the same thing if Washington-area police blew her door down and stormed into her home in Chevy Chase or whatever other exclusive area she lives, perhaps looking for drug dealers or murderers, suspecting her home because she is black?

Another aspect of America's crude tactics has been their way of responding to periodic mortar fire. The American forces use a high-tech radar gizmo that tracks the path of such shells supposedly to permit accurate return fire by artillery. Unfortunately the gizmo often does not work properly, and even when it does operate well, the tactics of mobile guerillas firing a shell from a truck or car and driving away leave the data of the gizmo useless. Well, not completely useless, because American artillery still responds. It's just that all they hit are innocent residences or businesses.

The trigger-happy nature of Americans at check points is a well-established fact. These boys, many of them having joined up for benefits like money for college, do not want to be in these places, and they are irritated by the strange tongues and cultures and the blazing heat and sandstorms. They simply shoot first and ask questions after. I suppose this tactic might have been appropriate on the Eastern Front in World War II, but it is totally unsuited to a place you are occupying after having invaded, a place where the overwhelming majority of people with which you interact are just ordinary people going about their lives.

There have been dozens of pictures on the Internet of whole families obliterated in their cars by American soldiers. Children have been pumped full of holes. A kidnapped Italian journalist almost lost her life on her short journey back to freedom. The brave Italian secret service agent who had secured her freedom and was accompanying her to freedom was pumped full of holes. Yet this car and its contents were well known and had been identified to American forces.

It is extremely unlikely this was an error, the Italian journalist being someone hated by American occupation authorities for her critical stories. Such a number of unarmed journalists have been shot by American troops that the idea of the accidents of war is not credible. Of course, the recent revelation in Britain that Bush actually discussed bombing offices of Aljazeera adds another dimension to these events.

A number of British soldiers, Britain's pathetic Blair being America's only true ally in the phony coalition America's press never fails to name, have gone on record about American tactics. These include several senior officers, an unprecedented criticism of an ally during war. What they have said to the press is that American tactics are brutal and thoughtless, almost certain in the long run to produce more enemies than friends. Few forces in the world have more genuine experience than Britain's after decades in Northern Ireland, yet all their advice is treated with contempt by arrogant American commanders and politicians.

It seems both public and press have forgotten the words of Donald Rumsfeld not long after the U.S. triumphed in Afghanistan, the words being among the most shameful in American history and certainly ranking with anything a dread figure like Reinhard Heydrich uttered. On what to do with the thousands of prisoners taken in the invasion, Rumsfeld publicly stated they should be killed or walled away forever. It does appear he was taken at his word, for thousands of prisoners disappeared around the time. There are many eye-witness reports - a documentary film was made by a Scots director - about Afghan prisoners having been taken into the desert in trucks to suffocate in the blazing heat. American soldiers, if they didn't actively help, just stood around and let it happen.

In the early part of the invasion of Afghanistan, tens of thousands of emergency de-hydrated food packets were dropped by American planes in some of the same areas that cluster bombs were being dropped. As pictures on the Internet testify, the bomblet canisters (pressure-sensitive cans packed with something like razor wire and high explosive) and the food packages were virtually the same optical yellow color. Imagine how many hungry peasants and children were attracted to these deadly areas by the food packets, only to be torn apart?

Bad publicity all over the world did stop the Pentagon's grotesque practice, but the question of using cluster bombs near civilian populations remains. It was done both in Afghanistan and Iraq. The brave journalists of Aljazeera took dozens of pictures of what these bombs did to children in Iraq, their publication providing one of the reasons for the Pentagon's and Bush's intense hatred of the network.

The revelations about the behavior of American soldiers in Abu Ghraib prison are well known, although the last round of abuse and torture pictures released did not include the worst stuff that American Senators saw in closed session a while back. It's almost as though the "tamer" stuff was released to defuse demands for more information. America's great investigative journalist Seymour Hersh has said the worst stuff included boys being raped by American soldiers.

How many senior officers or officials have paid for these horrors that absolutely had to be known to them? The answer is none. What did Lieutenant Calley and Captain Medina suffer for the mass murder and rape of women and children in Vietnam a few decades ago? Not much, and their seniors nothing at all.

Of course we know from many sources including amateur plane spotters and flight records that America runs a gigantic secret prison system. Sources in Europe say that 14,000 are held in Iraq alone. There are also secret prisons in Eastern Europe, Central Asia, Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean, and at Guantanamo. All of these prisoners are held with no legal rights whatever, just as though they had disappeared into Stalin's Gulag.

In most cases the prisoners are simply people who fought Americans in their invasions of two lands. Since when do we do this to the fighters who oppose us in war? Americans themselves in the past have joined foreign wars as idealists or as mercenaries. This happened in South Africa, various African anti-colonial wars, Central America, South America, Indo-China, Spain, and other places. It's an old tradition going back to Lafayette and Pulaski in the American Revolutionary War. The men, and boys, America now holds with no rights were doing no more than what tens of thousands of Americans and others have done previously.

As I have written before, if you want the rule of law, you cannot stand outside the law and claim its moral support. What America is doing in its "war on terror" is little more than freshened-up fascism. It wants a pipeline through Afghanistan and a subservient government in Iraq, and it dresses up the brutal tactics used to achieve these goals as a war on terror.

. <-- whats that?

Good read.

"Fight for freedom"?

How many corrupted and evil empires have been in this world?

1. Nazi germany

and second is..

How many empires have been led by occultists?

1. Nazi germany

and second is..

How many empires have used concentration camps to torture their enemys?

1. Nazi germany

and second is..

And so on .. so on..

What? Cnn and fox news say that I am wrong?

Open your eyes, before world war 3 is started and if it starts dont believe what your goverment says, there is no fight for freedom..

Now call me a nutjob and flame on.

Edited by Sanjuro

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Bella-Angelique

The rule of law is done through the civilian branch of government, legislative, judical, and the enforcement branches.

Militaries have their own military law and are not police, but soldiers taught to conduct war that not do police work. Expecting anything otherwise is stupid on all parties parts.

If there is no war then there should be no soldiers active. If there is war present then the accidental deaths of innocents is to be expected and the war should be eneded as soon as possible.

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Sanjuro

If there is no war then there should be no soldiers active. If there is war present then the accidental deaths of innocents is to be expected and the war should be eneded as soon as possible.

The funny thing is that there is loads of concentration camps where the innocent are held in.

And in the past 5 years I see no peace, this USA war will never end..

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...d+to+guantanamo

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Fluffybunny

It would be much more credible if you knew about what you are talking about. The overdramatic writing aside;

They simply shoot first and ask questions after

No they don't but I guess the constant anti American BS is much easier to spew than to actually look at the soldiers, the military and the actual result of the battles to see how trigger happy the soldiers are. I know many of them there right now, I served with them for many years and I know first hand what they are doing and why they are doing it. Killing people is not their primary goal; avoiding civilian casualties is.

They do everything within their power to avoid civilian casualties; they know that they do not want to have the civilians killed and injured; they are under a microscope of media coverage and everything negative is covered in full detail. They have to live with the ideea of having killed innocent people for the rest of their lives. I know you believe that the evil American soldiers thrive on that idea; but they do not.

If you were to know at least some of the soldiers there, you would realize that they are just people; some idiots, but mostly good people(kind of like a cross section of every population) who really do think that they are helping the average iraqi citizen to live a better life. Whether you believe in that or not is up to you; but that is the case like it or not( it appears that you do not)

If the Army was so trigger happy they simple would not even bother to step foot into a building and would call in an airstrike to take it out. Rather than risk and end the lives of innocents, they actually take the time and personal risk to go door to door to find caches of weapons used by insurgents. Do innocent people get killed? unfortunately yes. In many cases that is by other iraqis, but it appears by your posts that doesn't count, and that only Americans can do bad things in your mind.

Your rabid anti-Americanism is getting old and tired. You hang on every scrap of anti-war propaganda and actively avoid looking at the whole picture.

Your credibility goes out the window more and more every post.

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Shuriken
they are under a microscope of media coverage and everything negative is covered in full detail.

lol, I wonder if you are waching TV at all, otherwise u would not say those things. Have u ever seen any blood on mainstream TV companys war coverage ? Have u seen any dead bodies with crippled limbs? No u have not. Oh, maybe it's because there were no casualties in Iraq war? No, it's because u don't see a 2% of the gore, that took place in Iraq. So don't tell us that media is covering everything there is...

All they care about is ratings. And in novadays, when we are witnessing the birth of the reality show generation, it's hard to miss the link between the soft war coverage, and people, waching the war as a show. Certainly it's gainfully for the government. The nation is watching the war and accepting it as something usual.

We have amused ouerselfs to death...

Edited by Shuriken

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Bella-Angelique

If the Army was so trigger happy they simple would not even bother to step foot into a building and would call in an airstrike to take it out.

Do innocent people get killed? unfortunately yes. In many cases that is by other iraqis, but it appears by your posts that doesn't count, and that only Americans can do bad things in your mind.

Two most excellent points made. :yes:

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Stellar
From several ex-soldiers comes a vivid image of America's house-to-house methods of searching for "insurgents." A small block of C-4 plastique is fixed to the front door of a house, the door is blown in, and several armored giants rush through the shock and smoke with their automatic weapons at the ready.

Put the drama aside. What do you expect them to do?

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Sanjuro

Put the drama aside. What do you expect them to do?

Thats the only thing you see in my post?

How about concentration camps? What do you have to say about them? And what about rape and killing for fun?

US army has just too many amoral morons in their lines and army leadership supports them.

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Fluffybunny

lol, I wonder if you are waching TV at all, otherwise u would not say those things. Have u ever seen any blood on mainstream TV companys war coverage ? Have u seen any dead bodies with crippled limbs? No u have not. Oh, maybe it's because there were no casualties in Iraq war? No, it's because u don't see a 2% of the gore, that took place in Iraq. So don't tell us that media is covering everything there is...

All they care about is ratings. And in novadays, when we are witnessing the birth of the reality show generation, it's hard to miss the link between the soft war coverage, and people, waching the war as a show. Certainly it's gainfully for the government. The nation is watching the war and accepting it as something usual.

We have amused ouerselfs to death...

Well after serving for 8 years as a combat medic I certainly have seen it( and treated such things) many many times over.

The media thrives on the death in the Iraq war; it is a sensational ratings grabber and everything to those that want ratings over the whole story.

Don't tell me what I have and have not seen; you have no idea. I am in regular contact with soldiers there right now; searching door to door people who see far more than the media can and openly share the dirty goings on in the country; good and bad news occur there everyday although good news makes for poor ratings.

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Fluffybunny

Thats the only thing you see in my post?

How about concentration camps? What do you have to say about them? And what about rape and killing for fun?

US army has just too many amoral morons in their lines and army leadership supports them.

And you know this how exactly? Or is this just another assumption on your part?

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Sanjuro

And you know this how exactly? Or is this just another assumption on your part?

Soldiers from my country who serve in Iraq says the same thing, many US soldiers treat civilians wildly and thats a fact.

Edited by Sanjuro

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Bella-Angelique

Thats the only thing you see in my post?

How about concentration camps? What do you have to say about them? And what about rape and killing for fun?

US army has just too many amoral morons in their lines and army leadership supports them.

Simple solution.

If they stop killing Iraqi police and stop killing US soldiers and foreign citizens, the military will go away.

Why not complain about the morons who keep killing the Iraqi police and killing foreigners for fun? And do not say that they do not do it for fun. Foreign moslims ( and lord knows who else) pay to go hunting people in Iraq in various islamic nations like people paying to go on a big game hunt in Africa.

Some have had tapes of themselves made. Included it the trip cost is your gun, gun tripod, maps, transporation, food pack, and a guide to take you to locations where you are most likely to get a quick kill. I saw one of these tapes and the group was chartered out of Egypt.

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StalingradK
How about concentration camps? What do you have to say about them? And what about rape and killing for fun?

US army has just too many amoral morons in their lines and army leadership supports them.

Concentration camps like in Nazi Germany? No, prisoner facilities must be under UN standards.

Rape and killing for fun? No, that doesn't happen for fun. And if a raper is found and caught, he is punished to the full extent of the law.

You have the biggest misconception of the US army, I think you should look at real accounts and not anti-war propaganda.

No they don't but I guess the constant anti American BS is much easier to spew than to actually look at the soldiers, the military and the actual result of the battles to see how trigger happy the soldiers are. I know many of them there right now, I served with them for many years and I know first hand what they are doing and why they are doing it. Killing people is not their primary goal; avoiding civilian casualties is.

They do everything within their power to avoid civilian casualties; they know that they do not want to have the civilians killed and injured; they are under a microscope of media coverage and everything negative is covered in full detail. They have to live with the ideea of having killed innocent people for the rest of their lives. I know you believe that the evil American soldiers thrive on that idea; but they do not.

If you were to know at least some of the soldiers there, you would realize that they are just people; some idiots, but mostly good people(kind of like a cross section of every population) who really do think that they are helping the average iraqi citizen to live a better life. Whether you believe in that or not is up to you; but that is the case like it or not( it appears that you do not)

If the Army was so trigger happy they simple would not even bother to step foot into a building and would call in an airstrike to take it out. Rather than risk and end the lives of innocents, they actually take the time and personal risk to go door to door to find caches of weapons used by insurgents. Do innocent people get killed? unfortunately yes. In many cases that is by other iraqis, but it appears by your posts that doesn't count, and that only Americans can do bad things in your mind.

Your rabid anti-Americanism is getting old and tired. You hang on every scrap of anti-war propaganda and actively avoid looking at the whole picture.

Your credibility goes out the window more and more every post.

Someone had to say it. :)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also Sanjuro, it's like you ignore what people say and write it off as American influenced BS but if you actually payed attention, you might learn something about the real world.

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Sanjuro

Concentration camps like in Nazi Germany? No, prisoner facilities must be under UN standards.

Rape and killing for fun? No, that doesn't happen for fun. And if a raper is found and caught, he is punished to the full extent of the law.

You have the biggest misconception of the US army, I think you should look at real accounts and not anti-war propaganda.

Someone had to say it. :)

Under UN standarts? Look at Guantanamo, everyone knows what is happening there and no one cares.. few years ago there was a big scandal about this, but US didnt give a **** about what people say.

Raper found and punished? Look at vietnam war, I cant realy tell how much woman were raped and no one was punished and history is reapeating it self.

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Fluffybunny

Who? How many? Which civilians are treated poorly? Did your soldiers report them? Is this the typical second or third-hand hyped propaganda? Did the commanders know of this treatment? How do you know?

There are many questions to ask, and soldiers(whatever county) that step outside of the law should(and are) be prosecuted. I do not support the idea of treating innocent civilians poorly; nor do I know anyone who feels that way...I served in the military in combat and knew hundreds of soldiers who fought in combat and did not see the soldiers you like to portray the Army as...

Based on your posts; American soldiers could be handing out daisys, serving dinner and giving back rubs to civilians and you would focus on the guy who burned the lamb by mistake.

Your agressiveness in this issue is so rabid it really does paint all of your posts in such a fanatical light that you lose all credibility.

Of course bad things happen in war; you'd have to be crazy to think otherwise. Your painfully one sided opinion fails to look at the whole picture, and more specifically the military that you are so quick to villify although you have no experience and are depending on second and third hand knowledge to make your decisions, and throwing any positive news that may conflict with your opinion of the US soldiers.

I guess it is much easier to just paint soldiers as monsters and seek out unverified information to support that preconceived notion.

The matter is not black or white unlike your posts portray.

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et's daddy

can we go to war with Sanjuro's country next ?

i would reenlist for that

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KingTomis

They are supposed to knock on the door politely and ask if there are any terrorists/militants inside and to put any AK's and IED making materials in a brown paper bag and set it outside on thier doorstep to be picked up the following morning by the garbage man.

Duhh...

That entire article could easily be picked apart sentence by sentence and proven false, or out of context. Too bad I'm lazy and dont feel like doing it.

My main concern is that all of his written work is opinion pieces. He doesnt provide links to back up anything he says, so everything he says might as well be 100% false without sources.

For one thing, I know for a fact that there are no U.S munitions packed with razor wire. I also know that the food packets dropped look NOTHING like the sub munitions from a cluster bomb. Seeing as how I have several inert cluster bomb sub munitions on my shelves at home, I think I know what I'm talking about.

There is the small, golf ball sized balls of explosives that detonate after a certain amount of times they have spun.

Look like this:

user posted image

Then there are small, canister shaped sub munitions with either a parachute or ribbon attached. Look like this:

user posted image

Not to mention the opinion piece makes it appear that all these explosives merely hit the ground and are there for unsuspecting civilians to stumble upon. That is not the case, on average less than 5% of the sub munitions from a "cluster bomb" will hit the ground and not detonate.

You can also see that they look nothing like the food packets being dropped which look like this:

user posted image

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Sanjuro

Simple solution.

If they stop killing Iraqi police and stop killing US soldiers and foreign citizens, the military will go away.

Why not complain about the morons who keep killing the Iraqi police and killing foreigners for fun? And do not say that they do not do it for fun. Foreign moslims ( and lord knows who else) pay to go hunting people in Iraq in various islamic nations like people paying to go on a big game hunt in Africa.

Some have had tapes of themselves made. Included it the trip cost is your gun, gun tripod, maps, transporation, food pack, and a guide to take you to locations where you are most likely to get a quick kill. I saw one of these tapes and the group was chartered out of Egypt.

Hello - can anybody here me over there?

We are talking about civilians.

We are talking about US marines entering hauses and raping hausewifes and children, we are talking about kiddnaping woman and making porn, we are talking about US marines beating up farmers for fun.

We are talking about killing prisoners, humiliating them.

Want some real pictures? I doubt, they are too deterrent.

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Stellar

Thats the only thing you see in my post?

What? You want me to point out even more instances? Alright.

These violent procedures have been repeated thousands of times, both in Iraq and in the mountain villages of Afghanistan. Could this be part of what Condoleezza Rice meant when she said recently in Britain that despite thousands of tactical mistakes, America's basic strategy was sound?

These are not americas tactics, they're tactics shared by pretty much every modern military and police agency of the world, and it is sound.

Can you imagine her saying the same thing if Washington-area police blew her door down and stormed into her home in Chevy Chase or whatever other exclusive area she lives, perhaps looking for drug dealers or murderers, suspecting her home because she is black?

Oh, so now the US is doing this because the Iraqis are arabs? BS. This isnt a racial issue.

Another aspect of America's crude tactics has been their way of responding to periodic mortar fire. The American forces use a high-tech radar gizmo that tracks the path of such shells supposedly to permit accurate return fire by artillery. Unfortunately the gizmo often does not work properly, and even when it does operate well, the tactics of mobile guerillas firing a shell from a truck or car and driving away leave the data of the gizmo useless. Well, not completely useless, because American artillery still responds. It's just that all they hit are innocent residences or businesses.

Source plz, to show that the arty fire kills civilians every time. Mortars cant really be shot from confined spaces, now, can they?

The trigger-happy nature of Americans at check points is a well-established fact.

No its not.

These boys, many of them having joined up for benefits like money for college, do not want to be in these places, and they are irritated by the strange tongues and cultures and the blazing heat and sandstorms.

Says who?

They simply shoot first and ask questions after.

BS. No, they dont.

I suppose this tactic might have been appropriate on the Eastern Front in World War II, but it is totally unsuited to a place you are occupying after having invaded, a place where the overwhelming majority of people with which you interact are just ordinary people going about their lives.

And thats why it doesnt happen.

There have been dozens of pictures on the Internet of whole families obliterated in their cars by American soldiers. Children have been pumped full of holes. A kidnapped Italian journalist almost lost her life on her short journey back to freedom. The brave Italian secret service agent who had secured her freedom and was accompanying her to freedom was pumped full of holes.

Well, what do you expect if a vehicle doesnt stop properly at a checkpoint? You can hardly blame the soldiers for this, they did nothing wrong.

Yet this car and its contents were well known and had been identified to American forces.

Even military vehicles have to stop at checkpoints and are subject to a level 2 search. Gee, sure is easy to comment on something you know nothing about, hmm?

It is extremely unlikely this was an error, the Italian journalist being someone hated by American occupation authorities for her critical stories.

You're right its extremely unlikely that this was an error. The people driving the vehicle are most likely at fault.

Such a number of unarmed journalists have been shot by American troops that the idea of the accidents of war is not credible.

Gee, when journalists hang around the insurgents and video tape them, without coalition knowledge, you can hardly blame them for getting killed. They're at the wrong place, with the wrong people, and at the wrong time.

What they have said to the press is that American tactics are brutal and thoughtless, almost certain in the long run to produce more enemies than friends.

Its not the tactics that cause this, it is the nature of the beast.

Few forces in the world have more genuine experience than Britain's after decades in Northern Ireland, yet all their advice is treated with contempt by arrogant American commanders and politicians.

What advice?

It does appear he was taken at his word, for thousands of prisoners disappeared around the time. There are many eye-witness reports - a documentary film was made by a Scots director - about Afghan prisoners having been taken into the desert in trucks to suffocate in the blazing heat. American soldiers, if they didn't actively help, just stood around and let it happen.

Yes... there are many stories... although not enough to actually validate them.

In the early part of the invasion of Afghanistan, tens of thousands of emergency de-hydrated food packets were dropped by American planes in some of the same areas that cluster bombs were being dropped. As pictures on the Internet testify, the bomblet canisters (pressure-sensitive cans packed with something like razor wire and high explosive) and the food packages were virtually the same optical yellow color. Imagine how many hungry peasants and children were attracted to these deadly areas by the food packets, only to be torn apart?

Source please? Bomblet canisters? Does he mean cluster bombs?

Bad publicity all over the world did stop the Pentagon's grotesque practice, but the question of using cluster bombs near civilian populations remains.

What cluster bombs being used near civilian populations?

The revelations about the behavior of American soldiers in Abu Ghraib prison are well known, although the last round of abuse and torture pictures released did not include the worst stuff that American Senators saw in closed session a while back. It's almost as though the "tamer" stuff was released to defuse demands for more information. America's great investigative journalist Seymour Hersh has said the worst stuff included boys being raped by American soldiers.

And havent those soldiers been punished, hmm?

How many senior officers or officials have paid for these horrors that absolutely had to be known to them? The answer is none.

What senior officers or officials? Senior officers and officials dont micro manage. Theres a chain of command for a reason.

Of course we know from many sources including amateur plane spotters and flight records that America runs a gigantic secret prison system.

Of course. This super secret prison is open for any amature plane spotter to discover.

Sources in Europe say that 14,000 are held in Iraq alone.

Sources in Canada say that 0 are held anywhere. Saying "Sources say" doesnt really mean anything, does it?

In most cases the prisoners are simply people who fought Americans in their invasions of two lands.

For shame! :rolleyes:

Since when do we do this to the fighters who oppose us in war?

You cant be serious...

The men, and boys, America now holds with no rights were doing no more than what tens of thousands of Americans and others have done previously.

And wasnt the opposition trying to kill/jail them for doing so?

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Stellar

We are talking about civilians.

We are talking about US marines entering hauses and raping hausewifes and children, we are talking about kiddnaping woman and making porn, we are talking about US marines beating up farmers for fun.

We are talking about killing prisoners, humiliating them.

It appears "we" are making up stories.

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StalingradK
Hello - can anybody here me over there?

We are talking about civilians.

We are talking about US marines entering hauses and raping hausewifes and children, we are talking about kiddnaping woman and making porn, we are talking about US marines beating up farmers for fun.

We are talking about killing prisoners, humiliating them.

Want some real pictures? I doubt, they are too deterrent.

Give me any of the accounts above with a reliable source that doesn't have anti-american and anti-war propaganda. Because guess what? It's not happening. How can you even begin to believe any of this stuff. Yeah Vietnam was a tragedy for everyone but guess what? That happened like 40 years ago, and it wasn't as bad as you think by the way. We are much better with warfare that involves civilians being in harms way now. Look at the Persian Gulf War and other recent conflicts.

Oh, and did I say how can you even believe stuff like this anyway already?

-------------------

Lol, stellar, too many quotes!

Edited by StalingradK

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Fluffybunny

It appears "we" are making up stories.

We are talking about unsubstantiated propaganda that some people will believe regardless of wheather it is the truth or not.

It doesn't matter what the truth is; Sanjuro will pick and choose the news that best fit's Sanjuros preconceived notions of the military that he has never met or bothered to learn about.

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KingTomis

Hello - can anybody here me over there?

We are talking about civilians.

We are talking about US marines entering hauses and raping hausewifes and children, we are talking about kiddnaping woman and making porn, we are talking about US marines beating up farmers for fun.

We are talking about killing prisoners, humiliating them.

Want some real pictures? I doubt, they are too deterrent.

Yet again you show no sources.

I might as well say that you are a sadistic half man half kangaroo that goes around raping toddlers and cats.

Doesn't make it true.

You need to provide sources, and we have already pr oven your so called "Army porn" to be fake, as well as the so called accounts of rape. Does it happen? I'm sure it has. Does it happen to the extent that you claim? No

I'll be kind of blunt, even a sex starved American GI wouldn't find 99.99% of the women in Iraq in the least bit attractive. Probably has something to do with the dehumanizing religion they adhere to in which they cannot even show thier faces.

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Sanjuro

can we go to war with Sanjuro's country next ?

i would reenlist for that

Use guns insted of words? Real American way. :tu:

If you cant say nothing in return then just shot them.

My objective was to show the real face of war, but its hard with this huge propoganda where all US marines are freedom fighters and all arabs are terrorists.

I am officialy done with this topic. ;)

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Watzel

Sanjuro, do you really think Americans are as stupid as you are?

What atrocities have your countrymen done? Or is that different somehow?

Keep thinking bad about Americans and we will finally get tired of hearing it and come get kick your countries a** as well :angry:

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