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Sanjuro

America’s Brutal Tactics

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Fluffybunny

It is much easier to spread the propaganda and then leave when sources are requested.

Typical. :rolleyes:

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StalingradK
Use guns insted of words? Real American way.

If you cant say nothing in return then just shot them.

My objective was to show the real face of war, but its hard with this huge propoganda where all US marines are freedom fighters and all arabs are terrorists.

I am officialy done with this topic.

ET was being sarcastic pft. You know nothing about the real face of war, you focus on violent propaganda and death counts rather than what good comes out of a UN victory.

And we go not think all arabs are terrorists, where did you get that idea?

Done with this topic... what is this, like the 20th time you've quit on an Anti-American topic because you like to live in your own little world and don't like to face reality?

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Sanjuro

Removed Post - Not acceptable for this forum.

-Disinterested

Edited by Disinterested

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KingTomis

lol <---- that's me laughing out loud.

The VERY first link you provided has been proven false to you, yet you are so blinded by the lies that you for some reason believe that you wont even accept the truth.

If I was a nice person, I would feel sorry for you, because you are merely a wasted life. Someone blinded by hate and lies to the point that your perception of reality is skewed.

However, I'm not nice. I just find it amusing.

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Fluffybunny

Your "rape" video has been proven to be fake, and not even Americans to boot.

Thank you so much for proving my point perfectly.

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StalingradK

Websites:

1. Like, 50 of use have proven those aren't US soldiers. We don't use forest BDU's in the desert

2.Abu Ghraib was an unfortunate event that we have apologized for and is the only real account of Iraqi abuse and UN defying misconduct.

3. So far I see green BDU's and an Abu Ghraib photo, all the others have no connection to US-Iraqi affairs.

4. Why wasn't the article publish anywhere else but that site? Because the "eye-witness" account never happened.

5. An independant newspaper on a story that hasn't even been covered but Arab news... ok.

6. One reported rape, yeah it's horrible, he was also sentenced to do time behind bars like he should have been. But what about the the women being raped by the men in the photos from the websites you listed, they won't be caught? They obviously aren't american and if you can't see that than you are blind, deaf, and dumb.

7. Abu Ghrabi again, was a horrible event and it shouldn't have happened. The people that took part in the prisoner abuse need some serious psychotherapy and needed to be punished.

8. *sigh* why do we even hire mercenaries, our troops are good enough no?

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Sanjuro

Someone blinded by hate and lies to the point that your perception of reality is skewed.

I am blinded with hate? No, I am peaceful, I am not the one who is killing people in middle-east. :innocent:

Edited by Sanjuro

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aquatus1

Nor are you saving any.

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Clobhair-cean

Your "rape" video has been proven to be fake, and not even Americans to boot.

Thank you so much for proving my point perfectly.

Yep, its a simple porn film made by my dear fellow countrymen... It has nothing to do with Iraq or the US

Also, sites with a name like "uruknet" are not the best places to find objective information. For example, an article on that site denies the Halabja massacre(a chemical attack that left hundreds of innocent kurds dead) and refers to Saddam Hussein as "President" (and strangely most of it is in italian :blink: )

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Sanjuro

Nor are you saving any.

I saved 12.98 lifes with this topic, just imagine how many parents saw this topic and said " hell our child is not going to go to army! Ever!" :devil:

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KingTomis

I am blinded with hate? No, I am peaceful, I am not the one who is killing people in middle-east. :innocent:

Every post you make proves my points.

Perhaps not hate towards individuals, but you hate the U.S. administration and everything it stands for. You believe lies that lead to that hatred.

You are still so blinded that you cant even see it.

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KingTomis

I saved 12.98 lifes with this topic, just imagine how many parents saw this topic and said " hell our child is not going to go to army! Ever!" :devil:

People stupid enough to actually believe what you are spewing from your fingers arent bright enough to figure out the human reproductive system, and thus cant have children.

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Fluffybunny

I saved 12.98 lifes with this topic, just imagine how many parents saw this topic and said " hell our child is not going to go to army! Ever!" :devil:

How do you come to thta number? :huh:

How many parents look at this post ans saw you as an American hating propaganda master?

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Sanjuro

Okey I got the point, never say bad things about US politics, soldiers or whatever or you will end up as a enemy of all american people as well as greatest propoganda master of all times. :tu:

Ps. But still I saved 12.98 peoples...

Edited by Sanjuro

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__Kratos__

Naturally enough, few details of what American troops do in Iraq and Afghanistan reach the nation's television screens, the main source of news for most Americans. American television takes the approach of the New York Times when it refers to professional soldiers as GIs, as though they were humble mechanics and bricklayers of America drafted into the titanic struggle against Hitler and Tojo.

Just curious, how do you know that? You live in a different country. :rolleyes: Some website told you that and because it was anti-American you had to believe it like the sheep you really are? ;)

We do take pride in our soldiers, I didn't know that was wrong for a country to support it's troops.

But if you are genuinely interested in discovering the truth, there are plenty of sources for first-hand information. And anyone taking a little time to search through some of these comes away with a sick feeling.

Hmm...the only ones with the "truth" are mainly conspiracy sites, anti-war and arab news works that are against the US, that make no effort to hit it.

That sick feeling you are getting is called "propaganda poisoning". It happens when you get pumped full of crap and the body can't take it.

From several ex-soldiers comes a vivid image of America's house-to-house methods of searching for "insurgents." A small block of C-4 plastique is fixed to the front door of a house, the door is blown in, and several armored giants rush through the shock and smoke with their automatic weapons at the ready. Women and children are held to one side at gunpoint, while any men are taken roughly for questioning. In most cases, the men have nothing worthwhile to say, but they and other members of their families are left with a terrifying experience they will never forget.

That would be called a raid, or a sweep. It has to be done. Unless you have some better magical way, please shut up.

These violent procedures have been repeated thousands of times, both in Iraq and in the mountain villages of Afghanistan. Could this be part of what Condoleezza Rice meant when she said recently in Britain that despite thousands of tactical mistakes, America's basic strategy was sound? Can you imagine her saying the same thing if Washington-area police blew her door down and stormed into her home in Chevy Chase or whatever other exclusive area she lives, perhaps looking for drug dealers or murderers, suspecting her home because she is black?

Mistakes are made of course, it's a big country. Can't be perfect 24/7. :rolleyes: Crap happens.

Interesting how you should bring up the race card. Tell me this, how much of Iraq's population is Arab? That's a big duh to you. Maybe if you pulled your head out of the sand you would see that Iraq is 75%-80% Arab. Source

Intersting, isn't that? ;)

Another aspect of America's crude tactics has been their way of responding to periodic mortar fire. The American forces use a high-tech radar gizmo that tracks the path of such shells supposedly to permit accurate return fire by artillery. Unfortunately the gizmo often does not work properly, and even when it does operate well, the tactics of mobile guerillas firing a shell from a truck or car and driving away leave the data of the gizmo useless. Well, not completely useless, because American artillery still responds. It's just that all they hit are innocent residences or businesses.

Again, I suppose you have a better way of tracking mortars and terrorists? You whine and whine but you would rather have the troops sit there like ducks and get blown up because they're not firing back.

The trigger-happy nature of Americans at check points is a well-established fact. These boys, many of them having joined up for benefits like money for college, do not want to be in these places, and they are irritated by the strange tongues and cultures and the blazing heat and sandstorms. They simply shoot first and ask questions after. I suppose this tactic might have been appropriate on the Eastern Front in World War II, but it is totally unsuited to a place you are occupying after having invaded, a place where the overwhelming majority of people with which you interact are just ordinary people going about their lives.

If people disobey the checkpoint rules, they will be shot at. It could be a car bomb or assult. They don't hide the fact it's a check point and the soldiers have to choose between letting the car come up and possibly getting blown up with his buddies or shooting it up.

Let me guess, car bombs and suicide bombers are a myth now? :rolleyes:

There have been dozens of pictures on the Internet of whole families obliterated in their cars by American soldiers. Children have been pumped full of holes. A kidnapped Italian journalist almost lost her life on her short journey back to freedom. The brave Italian secret service agent who had secured her freedom and was accompanying her to freedom was pumped full of holes. Yet this car and its contents were well known and had been identified to American forces.

None of those people stopped or slowed. The Italian car was found to be speeding towards the point and they failed to inform the US forces that they were getting a hostage back.

People must obey the check point rules or face what comes at them.

It is extremely unlikely this was an error, the Italian journalist being someone hated by American occupation authorities for her critical stories. Such a number of unarmed journalists have been shot by American troops that the idea of the accidents of war is not credible. Of course, the recent revelation in Britain that Bush actually discussed bombing offices of Aljazeera adds another dimension to these events.

If the car wasn't speeding, it wouldn't have happened. Journalists know the risks when going into a war zone.

The bombing of Aljzaeera would have been to knock out communications to the country because it could incite people to rise up at the time. Amazing how nobody did bomb it but people are still getting mad at military strategy being discussed. :rolleyes:

A number of British soldiers, Britain's pathetic Blair being America's only true ally in the phony coalition America's press never fails to name, have gone on record about American tactics. These include several senior officers, an unprecedented criticism of an ally during war. What they have said to the press is that American tactics are brutal and thoughtless, almost certain in the long run to produce more enemies than friends. Few forces in the world have more genuine experience than Britain's after decades in Northern Ireland, yet all their advice is treated with contempt by arrogant American commanders and politicians.

That's the opinions of a few soldiers.

I wonder how many soldiers on the US side commented about the Brits beating the hell out of defenseless Iraqi teens on video.

It goes around.

It seems both public and press have forgotten the words of Donald Rumsfeld not long after the U.S. triumphed in Afghanistan, the words being among the most shameful in American history and certainly ranking with anything a dread figure like Reinhard Heydrich uttered. On what to do with the thousands of prisoners taken in the invasion, Rumsfeld publicly stated they should be killed or walled away forever. It does appear he was taken at his word, for thousands of prisoners disappeared around the time. There are many eye-witness reports - a documentary film was made by a Scots director - about Afghan prisoners having been taken into the desert in trucks to suffocate in the blazing heat. American soldiers, if they didn't actively help, just stood around and let it happen.

They are enemy combatants that fight for no nation.

Oh, I'm sure that director didn't pay the people, rich guy going to a poorer country, to act. ;) He went there to make a film, not tell the truth. I bet he's making lots of money off of that film as well.

In the early part of the invasion of Afghanistan, tens of thousands of emergency de-hydrated food packets were dropped by American planes in some of the same areas that cluster bombs were being dropped. As pictures on the Internet testify, the bomblet canisters (pressure-sensitive cans packed with something like razor wire and high explosive) and the food packages were virtually the same optical yellow color. Imagine how many hungry peasants and children were attracted to these deadly areas by the food packets, only to be torn apart?

Would be interesting to see the proof of this. I sounds pretty fishy.

Bad publicity all over the world did stop the Pentagon's grotesque practice, but the question of using cluster bombs near civilian populations remains. It was done both in Afghanistan and Iraq. The brave journalists of Aljazeera took dozens of pictures of what these bombs did to children in Iraq, their publication providing one of the reasons for the Pentagon's and Bush's intense hatred of the network.

Airstrikes are to take out terrorists. There is an air force for a reason. Collateral damage does happen.

The revelations about the behavior of American soldiers in Abu Ghraib prison are well known, although the last round of abuse and torture pictures released did not include the worst stuff that American Senators saw in closed session a while back. It's almost as though the "tamer" stuff was released to defuse demands for more information. America's great investigative journalist Seymour Hersh has said the worst stuff included boys being raped by American soldiers.

Amazing how those soldiers acted alone and without orders. Why they are in jail.

Yeah, I'm sure he has proof of this right? Or is he just spewing off more crap. ;) Just read a little bout him. He's gunning just for stories that are anti-goverment. Funny how he came across all of those stories with no problems. ;)

How many senior officers or officials have paid for these horrors that absolutely had to be known to them? The answer is none. What did Lieutenant Calley and Captain Medina suffer for the mass murder and rape of women and children in Vietnam a few decades ago? Not much, and their seniors nothing at all.

Lieutenant Calley was found guilty of murder in the My Lai massacre and not sure what happened to Captain Medina, but I think he was found not guilty.

Funny how in all these abuses in Iraq, people have to resort to the past to slam America. Guess there really isn't that much wrong in Iraq. Idiots they are...

Of course we know from many sources including amateur plane spotters and flight records that America runs a gigantic secret prison system. Sources in Europe say that 14,000 are held in Iraq alone. There are also secret prisons in Eastern Europe, Central Asia, Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean, and at Guantanamo. All of these prisoners are held with no legal rights whatever, just as though they had disappeared into Stalin's Gulag.

Sources for a secret prison? :lol: There is no proof of this prisons. But again, it's anti-American so people will believe it. :rolleyes:

In most cases the prisoners are simply people who fought Americans in their invasions of two lands. Since when do we do this to the fighters who oppose us in war? Americans themselves in the past have joined foreign wars as idealists or as mercenaries. This happened in South Africa, various African anti-colonial wars, Central America, South America, Indo-China, Spain, and other places. It's an old tradition going back to Lafayette and Pulaski in the American Revolutionary War. The men, and boys, America now holds with no rights were doing no more than what tens of thousands of Americans and others have done previously.

Hmm...fighting against us, means you are enemy. Intersting how that works. Do you understand now?

Heh, digging back in the past again to bash American. :rolleyes: Amazing how we do have rights...

As I have written before, if you want the rule of law, you cannot stand outside the law and claim its moral support. What America is doing in its "war on terror" is little more than freshened-up fascism. It wants a pipeline through Afghanistan and a subservient government in Iraq, and it dresses up the brutal tactics used to achieve these goals as a war on terror.

And the final... :lol:

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aquatus1

I saved 12.98 lifes with this topic, just imagine how many parents saw this topic and said " hell our child is not going to go to army! Ever!" :devil:

I can't imagine that any at all did. Nor can I imagine that a child who wishes to join the military will be stopped simply because their parents present your ludicrous arguments to them.

What have you accomplished? Who have you swayed?

No one.

Perhaps you have a valid point. Perhaps the things you say are true.

It doesn't really matter, though. The way you presented them, wrapping them around with such hate and disgust, automatically made everyone turn their head in disgust at your actions. You think warfare is barbaric? Pardon my french, mods, but no sh**. Your presentation, on the other hand, was so abominable, so utterly devoid of any sort of reason or logic, so full of nothing but self-rightous hatred, that you have done more to hurt your cause than help. It is far easier to imagine that 13 people reading this thread would be inspired to fight against the trash you spew than turn away.

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bathory

i know i've drawn the ire of the mods lately by calling people names, but i think this has to be said

Sanjuro, you are a f@#king idiot

that is all.

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RamboIII

Good read.

"Fight for freedom"?

How many corrupted and evil empires have been in this world?

1. Nazi germany

and second is..

How many empires have been led by occultists?

1. Nazi germany

and second is..

How many empires have used concentration camps to torture their enemys?

1. Nazi germany

and second is..

And so on .. so on..

What? Cnn and fox news say that I am wrong?

Open your eyes, before world war 3 is started and if it starts dont believe what your goverment says, there is no fight for freedom..

the second is not america on any of those blockhead...

I am blinded with hate? No, I am peaceful, I am not the one who is killing people in middle-east. :innocent:

neither am i a$$hole

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RamboIII

i would also like to say why the hell did everyone make such a big deal about abu ghraib? the "torture" that those POW's received is NOTHING compared to what hundreds or even thousands of OUR soldiers have recieved from these idiotis Arabs themselves, not to mention Vietnam, Korea, etc.. but do we make a huge deal? No we try to help our soldiers, so who gives a fu*k that we did some irregular things to some Arabs who wanted to kill us? Not me, torture them all i say (the one who want to kill us)

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joc

It is my opinion that Sanjuro enjoys pulling everyone's chains.

It is my opinion that if Sanjuro wants to instigate unrest with Americans that he do so on some other forum.

It is my opinion that Sanjuro is either A. jealous of what he does not understand, or B. an enemy sympathizer. At any rate, I don't see why we need to continue his personal enjoyment at yanking the yankee's chains.

Confusious say: If one yanks a dog's chain often enough, and hard enough, the dog will most certainly bite one viciously!

Edited by joc

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RamboIII

**** off Rambo, thats enough.

dont get nasty because i am correct. where are you from anyway?

another thing, who the hell are you to tell me to **** off? why dont you **** off i didnt say anything to you so mind your own business and do so without using inappropriate language

Edited by RamboIII

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shikon1

one reason they dont show the full extent, gore wise, on mainstream media in america is because of a lil organization called the FCC. also i dont think the family members of the soldiers you see being blasted want to see that.

the more and more i read this stuff the more i get reminded of veitnam, i see how we are pulling troops and replacing them with iraqi troops....same with veitnam, every country plus alot of people in the u.s. hate the war and try to make our soldiers look like monsters(what people dont seem to realize is that the insurgents and northern veitnamize soldiers did the same), i see the exact same pro-war and anti-war propaganda, you dont know for fact unless

1. its backed up by ALOT of sources

2. they have pics or videos that are proven to be real

3. you saw it yourself

what these anti-war people need to realize is that barbaric acts have/will happen in wars, wars bring out the worst in people.....you tend to become devoid of sympathy and/or emotion after seeing 100s of people killed in front of you, seeing your best friends killed right in front of you, HAVING you life in danger every second.

i bet 95% of people that are saying how horrible we are couldnt do this without going insane

Edited by shikon1

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RamboIII

agreed

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bathory
the more and more i read this stuff the more i get reminded of veitnam, i see how we are pulling troops and replacing them with iraqi troops....same with veitnam, every country plus alot of people in the u.s. hate the war and try to make our soldiers look like monsters(what people dont seem to realize is that the insurgents and northern veitnamize soldiers did the same), i see the exact same pro-war and anti-war propaganda, you dont know for fact unless

i think you'll find the people claiming Vietnam = iraq are either too stupid to understand the reality of vietnam, or sympathise politically on some level with those opposing the US.

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Sanjuro

Yeah now you call me american hater soon you will call me terrorist, blah blah blah.

US war politics are all about hate, look at 9/11 , goverment blows you up and then points to one of many " terrorist support countrys" and , BAM, wardogs are realeased, they run into battle full with hate, they want revenge they are blind..

And war generates more hate, more terrorists are born, man and woman who have lost familiys and point of their lifes because of wardogs .. they become terrorists .. beings full of hate and they start to kill americans and it generates more hate and it never stops, you kill one terrorist - 2 will born in his place, you kill one american - they will kill more.

I cant see end to this. Wardogs are realeased and there is no chains that holds them back..

If everyone will say good things about you, when you will be able to say difference between good and evil?

Where is difference between fight for freedom and mass murder?

I see that some peoples have lost these skills of telling the difference long time ago due to mass media and propoganda.

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