Muslim Speaker on Danish Tv

[Malfeas]

Communism is officially atheist and communist nations are just as likely to have the same agendas as other nations. They can be imperialistic, start wars, perform genocide... all without a religion to pin the blame on. Religion isn't the problem: Humanity is the problem.

Also, look at the Khmer Rouge... they were some of the most awful human rights abusers in modern time and they outlawed religion.

[Baku]

yes i think also most muslim are stuck back in midle ages, the most tolerant and good muslim countries are ex-sovjet countries (azerbaijan, kazachstan, turkmenistan and uzbekistan). they are only countries in world who celebrate both religion feest (both islam and christian).

but i think islam messed up everyting, because for that islam came all irani empire people were zoroasters and were among worlds most advanced people. islam and zoroaster fighted big war and last zoroaster king was: babak khorram din

this is why irani people are different muslims then other, we are muslims but we are all still proud on babak and ancient zoroasters, which were enemy of muslims. so we actually love two opposite things.

Yeah thats true, the former [islamic] Soviet Republics are today the most tolerant Islamic countries.

[StalingradK]

You can't have it both ways. You want to argue religion binds people together in peace more than other issues, yet you also what to ignore any time periods were its clearly doesn't. That’s like claiming "Nazism as a good thing since it unified Germany... we’ll just ignore the 1918-1945 period of its history".

I'm not having it both ways. You are generalizing two things, religion, and leaders. Religion does bring people together, Christians and Muslims have lived together before the crusades with ease. It's when you get a leader that thinks you should drive everyone out of a certain city (crusades for examples) or kill all non-believers in "the name of god".

That’s like claiming "Nazism as a good thing since it unified Germany... we’ll just ignore the 1918-1945 period of its history".

Nazism was a good thing since it did unify germany. You will say no because when you hear Nazi, all you think is Hitler, Hate, innocent dying people, but nazism was just a political party, it was Hitler and Himller who started the T-4 Programs, and it was Hitler who led the NSDAP to a hate organization. It's three original major goals were -Elimination of unemployment

-Elimination of hyperinflation

-Expansion of production of consumer goods to improve middle- and lower-class living standards.

And so thus they banned science for 700 years... which is what I said.

Then it's not religion, it's the legacy of a certain leader out-living its' rule.

Again, you can't have you're cake and eat it. You can't argue religion is a peaceful force in the world bringing people together in harmony, and then reject massive junks of history because it doesn't fit in with you're argument.

I'm not rejecting them, I just interpret it differently than you. I do not see it as religion messing up, but religious leader messing up and their followers messing up and their followers messing up even further. If you think about it in that context, then it really does make sense.

Throughout history religious organisations (not just fringe sects, but also supported by their churches) have murdered, burned, skinned, hanged, crucified, enslaved and tortured untold number because they were 'heretics'. Religion is the basis of modern Islamic terrorism, all that talk about infidels is religiously based. Religion is the cause of many of Africa’s unending civil-wars. Religion sparked the crusades and other wars to "save people’s souls by killing them". Even in modern day western world Protestants and Catholics kill each other in Ulster over religion, the biggest joke being their both Christian sects and what they kill each other over is essentially just the issue of whether going to heaven pre-determined at birth. The old testament itself is one of the most gory books on the planet, filled with stories of god murdering people for no apparent reason other than he felt they where 'sinners'.

Religion is just another factor which leads to hundreds of other wars. People that take religious teachings out of context are the ones who are wrong, not the religion itself.

No it doesn't, India for example practically welcomed the British since they lived in a caste society where paler skin made you superior, thus when Europeans arrived we were considered gods. However, between you and me I don't think the rest of Africa, Asia, Oceania and the Americans were so willing to be taken over. Believe it or not, historically, most empires are built on force.

Thank you, yes I know that most empires are taken by force, and most of them are not religiously related btw, but I just wanted to make note that your definition was flawed in an aspect or two.

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Also Talon, if religion had not united people to come together in a bigger way than tribes can clans congregating ever could, the world would probably not be in the same state was it was before the Middle Ages, and that the world you speak of being more developed if religion had not exsisted is not completely right.

Edited April 9, 2006 by StalingradK