Who really rules this world? God or Satan?

[theSOURCE]

Edited quote from site:

The word "hell" appears 54 times in the Bible, 30 times in the Old Testament, 24 in the New Testament.

In the Old Testament, hell is taken from the word, Sh'owl, pronounced sheh-ole' or Sh'ol; Hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), Sheol, including its accessories and inmates: KJV--grave, hell, pit. It is interchangeable with the word grave or a pit. Basically, hell is a hole in the ground where bodies are buried.

In the New Testament it is taken from three words.

The word is Geena, pronounced gheh'-en-nah of Hebrew origin; valley of the son of Hinnom; ge-henna, or Ge-Hinnom, a valley of Jerusalem, used figuratively as a name for the place or state of everlasting punishment:

The actual place referred to is Hinnom, a deep, narrow ravine separating Mount Zion from the so-called "Hill of Evil Counsel" to the southwest of Jerusalem. It was formerly the place where the idolatrous Jews burned their children alive as a sacrafice to Moloch and Baal. A particular part of the valley was called Tophet, the "fire-stove" or furnace, where the children were burned. After the Exile, in order to show their abhorrence of the locality, the Jews made this valley the receptacle of the refuse of the city. As with refuse, in those times it was burned to keep down vermin, the obvious offensive odors, to maximize space, and a fire was kept constantly burning there.

The next word is familiar to most, the Greek word Hades. And, as with the Hebrew word Sheol, it is interchangeable with the word grave. There is a serious problem trying to designate this as a place of eternal fiery torture rather than a burial place, the problem being, mainly, that Jesus spent three days in Hades after his crucifixion. Since it is clear that this place was actually a sepulchre, not a furnace and that Jesus committed no sin to warrant such punishment, it would justify the logical conclusion that this is the grave. Attempting to insinuate that Jesus had to go to this fiery Hell to defeat it presupposes that such a place exists without solid scriptural evidence. Jesus performed his ultimate miracle by defeating death, not fire. In the case of Lazarus, it must be noted that this is a parable and is used in a metaphoric sense as with the use of the word Ghenna.

The third word translated into hell is only used once and refers to the place of imprisonment for the angels that are described in Genesis 6:4. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. Enoch gives a detailed description of this place and can more easily be understood by reviewing the section on this site about the Flood. The word is Tartaroo, pronounced tar-tar-o'-o from Tartaros (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment.

If one chooses to embrace the concept of an eternity of suffering in a furnace, that is one’s prerogative, but it is not a biblical concept based on a strong foundation. It can be speculated and implied, but there is ample evidence against it.

The Link

[Void]

Just because we are bought up in Western society we have the imprinted view that any God must be the christian God. If we were born in Japan we would have more chance of becoming buddhist instead. If we were born in Saudi Arabia we would think of God as the Islamic God.

Just think of the ancient egyptians fanatically worshipping their Gods for thousands of years, and now what do we think of them? Just myths. Yet we elevate our modern Gods as superior and think of them having more chance of existing. Yet what is the difference between religions today and the ancient religions? Nothing, all have myths, stories, lessons...

And noone can adequately explain that if the ancient religions were wrong for 1000s of years, why can't we be wrong today?

I just bring this up because I notice quite a few people reasoning that if there is a God there must be a Satan (ie it must be the Christian God) but in reality there are a multitude of different Gods and ideas.

[FreyKade]

nicly put Void

about the heaven thing my feeble mind is unable to comprehend how it can be paradise....

lets say for example..this person (person a) is all good and gets into heaven....but longs to be with "person b", and heaven would only be paradise if person b was there with person a...however...person b is "bad" and goes to hell...therefore, person a in "heaven" is actually living his hell?

[Seraphina]

Void my friend, that is an arguement I myself have voiced many a time before Well said.

Of course, if we lived in a country that practises Islam, or during the time of the crusades, we'd both have been stoned for it

[*MoG*]

God/Saturn

Heaven/Hell

Good/Evil

both sides of the same coin, you spin to win, who can tell which way it will fall.

No-one rules the earth (theorectically speaking), we make our own path and we all have to deal with the decisions we make.

Its all to easy to blame our bad judgement calls of the 'evil' of others.

And lots of people to bad things. When we don't understand their reasons we automatically call them evil. But I think it depends which direction you are looking from at the time.

[JustAnIllusion]

Well, w/ people these days, I'd say they act as though the Devil is their God. In this time & age, no one holds any value to human life , nor do they show much emotion or have any morals. It's pretty sickening, but very true.

I wouldn't say I'm a highly religious person. I have my beliefs, as well as many doubts. There are some things that I agree w/, but as many others, seeing & experiencing is believing. It's hard for me to believe something when there is no actual proof of it.

[moe eubleck]

Who really rules the world? I dont think the world belongs to anybody. Since we depend on it for everything, wouldnt it be fair to say that we belong to it?

[Potholer]

I'm happy to believe in nothing. Sounds a bit, well, lonely, sad, whatever, but that way it's easier to accept what other people think because I have no preferences. Well, truthfully, I think I'm a little biased against Christianity and the paranormal fascinates me but overall, I like to think I'm pretty openminded (or gullible depending on how you take it... ).

I was reading this thing yesterday that had the idea that all religions are just ideas created by us. None of them are at all accurate in the way they portray a god(s)/ goddess(es), their little minions, the beginning of the world. In a word, they are fiction.

It proposed that 'god', as we call it, is not a single being, it has no gender, it is not omniscient, it is a presence is the most broadest terms possible.

There is our 'side' and the 'spirit' side. WHen we die, our actions are mirrored onto our existence after death. If someone was bad, they become a bad/evil spirit, if they preformed a mix of good and bad, they become neutral (and now that I think about the neutral point...does it entirely make snese?).

And, if God is a prescense, likewise is satan. SInce the beginning of life, a 'battle' has been fought through us.... sounds a bit melodramatic. Neither can win the war, but each can win battles.

It also proposed that, if we believe something, then it is true (at least from a spirital view). We believe triple six is the devils number, so it is. We believe that praying helps, so it does. So then, any god or goddess or whatever can 'exist' as long as people believe it does.

Ok...may have gotten a lil off topic, but as it said (and I think I liek the sound of this it), neither rules as such, but are fighting for dominion that neither can win.

'You may have won the battle, but it doesn't mean you've won the war'

[Naveed]

I think the simplist way to look at it is, there is no good or evil. The world is colorful, but people make it black and white; good and evil.

[Bright Eyes]

There is no way I can believe in God with all that goes on in the world. Sometimes it seems like we are living in a horror movie.

But then, maybe that's the Devil's plan... to make us doubt that there is a God, until noone believes any longer andhe has free reign over us all!!!!

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

[Potholer]

Please don't take this the wrong way but...

how can we go blaming satan for the bad things that happen in this world? Can there possibly be a voice if every single murderers ear whispering "Go on, it's ok, this is the right thing to do"? I'm sure at least a few of them are doing it of their own free will.

Disease and disaster are natures way of controlling numbers. Face it, we're at the top of the food chain, so she can't use that to keep us in check.

Up to a point, all things happen for a reason, just some things are harder to accept and the point is a little foggier than others though...

But up to point. After that it's just a screwed up human race. We can't go blaming others all the time, though I guess we can't always blame ourselves either...

Just my rant

[Potholer]

It just occured to me last night that, if such beings as god and the devil existed, they wouldn't interfere so outrightly.

I remember a quote from futurama -

'God' says "when you do things right people won't be sure you've done anything at

all."

[Xenojjin]

Well, truthfully, I think I'm a little biased against Christianity

Ive never understood this . What has christianity done that is so bad that other religions have not ? I sense a long discussion .. this will be fun

[DrStrangelove]

God is in control of everything, and in the end, He wins. So I would not be to worried abou it. It's cool that you are a writer, though.

[nadgouk]

Who really rules this world? God or Satan?

...

Well said kryso

Looking at how so many 'nasty' people are in such influencial positions around the world, I often wonder if we are looking in the wrong direction when we pray!

[Anirbas]

I rule - end of story No really - God allows Satan to rule but he will take control again after he's had enough.

[TheLight]

Money rules the world, or economy if you want me to put it this way.

So is money good or evil ?

Money is simply an invention of the human race so it's neither good nor evil, but the way it is used can be good or evil.

People would do anything for money (the more you have the more you want) and that's what is called greed in the christian religion.

Greed is evil.

So the evil rules the world.

How about that for a demonstration ?

[Potholer]

Xeno

What has Christianity done? -

It's all mostly historical, but these things have changes their reputaion (at least in my eyes)

1. The crusades: The purging of barbarians because they weren't christians. "They don't believe in our our god, they must be barbaric". Isn't there a commandment against this sort of thing? ie "thou shalt not kill". But then again, these people weren't properly human therefore it was a favour to kill them and end their godless existence.

2. Their total and complete lack of toerance for other religions. It's their way or death. Which would you choose? the muslim religion had no problem with christianity and allowed to christians to live amongst them (learned about this in history - people of other religions had to pay a tax. but still, I'd say thats better than death)

3. How in the middle ages it became more of a political leader thing than a religion and was used to control the populace

4. The fact that no matter what you do during the week, all is forgiven if you go to confessional on sunday. I saw a movie once where the man beat his wife and drank heavily but the priest forgave him because he confessed and went to chruch every sunday.

Like I said, it is all mostly things the religion has done in history. But many of them weren't particularly nice. There seems a fine line between a devote christian and a fanatic.

Rest assured, I do not go round criticizing Chrisitans. I accept what they believe, after all, if it makes you happy, go for it

Please feel free to correct or shoot down any of my ideas.

10 commandments

there's a little information about the commandments, specifically, "thou shalt not kill"

[Naveed]

I rule - end of story No really - God allows Satan to rule but he will take control again after he's had enough.

I can picture satan now. He walks up to God, puts a hat on and says

Satan: "I've had enough of these foolish humans! They make me look bad! I quit!"

God: "Darn there goes another beelzebub! Who am I gonna get to replace him? Ah what the heck, maybe it's time for the old wrath of God thing again." *He zaps some poor street bum* "Yep I still got it! HAHA!"

[Seraphina]

Well...if satan IS ruling the world until god decides to take over....I haven't seen any worldwide floods, cities getting wiped off the face of the earth, people being turned into pillars of salt, or people having to fight their way out of a whales digestive system under HIS rule...

maybe we're better off with things under good ol' evil

[Bright Eyes]

I just had this mental image of God and the Devil playing a game of chess as we go about our lives with them just looking on, like we would watch tv while doing a favourite pasttime.

I reckon they're the best of friends, and whenever one takes one of the other's chess pieces, somebody has to die.

[moe eubleck]

who rules the world, god or satan........

well that doesnt leave me with many options does it. Each choice is equally christian. But if you want to base it on the bible, then it must be satan. Have you been watching the news lately?

[Anirbas]

LOL @ Naveed - not exactally what I meant .... When God is ready to reclaim the world/his people Armegedeon will happen and he will destroy all evil.

[Xenojjin]

POTHOLer , I was mainly asking what christianity has done that is differant from other religouns . Go back and check my post . I am not proud of the crusades , and I have always known about them . But other religions have done this as well ( aka . JIHAD !! ) . My question was out of concern since christianity is getting the most flame then any other religion . On top of that , those idiots in the crusades were not following our own text "thou shalt not kill" while in other books it says you should commit a holy war as means of converting . Christianity allows holy war as well , but only as means of defense . So choping off peoples heads if they wont convert has more to do with that particular christian being a moron and disobeying his/her religion rather then christianity itself being at fault . I have never had the idea of not tolerating other religions , or chopping others heads off because they are not christian ... which brings me to another point

4. The fact that no matter what you do during the week, all is forgiven if you go to confessional on sunday. I saw a movie once where the man beat his wife and drank heavily but the priest forgave him because he confessed and went to chruch every sunday.

this is a big mistake I notice in non christians flaming christians . Confessing your sins and your clean ideals are all catholic . Yes , catholicism is a sect of christianity , but a very differant sect with very differant beliefs . Some are the same , but many are not . When you talk about christians be sure your talking about the mainstream christianity and not catholic .

[Potholer]

OK, I'm annoyed. Not at you or anythign just that this is the 3rd time I've tried my little 'rebuttal' session.

first time, i tried posting and it turned out I wasn't logged in so I lost it all :S. Second time, goodness knows what happened but I lost it again. So I can't be bothered writing it out elaborately a third time so am going to give it in compressed form. The skeleton. And if it makes little sense, I apoligise.

Ok....3rd time lucky.

I'm sorry, Xeno, for making such a generalisation about the whole of Christianity. I ahve a vague (more like a big fat blur) idea of the various sects of this religion but, frankly, it's too dam confusing for me to fully comprehend. I think that, if I really tried, I culd probably name about 3. I'll try not to make that same mistake again in the future.

I reread your original post and noticed that qutie vitally important part about 'compared to other religions'

The knights who fought in the crusades did so on the orders of the chruch. At least two of the most widely known orders were assimilated into the chruch adn exacted from taxes and therefore could more or less perform their 'services' freely. one of those, The Knights Templar, had the admirable intentions of protecting pilgrims crossing the holy lands. I have few qualms with this. What gets me going is how much money they poured into the crusades for the soul purpose of killing others. The church encouraged and supported all this. (that comment is probably going to get a snap)

I must disagree that war is a means of defense. I suppose, up to a point, it can be seen as preventive measures, but the crusades went on for 200 odd years (?). You'd think in that time, they would have crushed the majority of opposition...?

Oh, and the reason Christianity cops the most flak (..where the hell did that saying come from...? )? Well, I see it as it's the biggest (most widely practiced) erligion and therefore the easiest to pick holes in .

I read up on Jihad and discovered that it's pretty much the same as the crusades -

Jihad

"O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them, their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end”

eep

But, is/was Jihad both politcal and religious? As I said, the Church became something of a political figure then, so not only was it one asspect of society, but carried into all parts of life. It was a veritable occupation, being Knight.

Jeepers, I alwasy get so carried away on these things ...hehe.

"Gosh, Potholer, if this is the condensed version....." and

"Do you alwasy talk to yourself on posts?"

It probably isn't as condensed as I thought it would be.

So I'll end this here.

One point I do agree on is that , yes, it's been fun, Xeno

And I've gone Waaaaaaaaaay off topic...:S

Potholer