SAS soldier quits Army in disgust at

[Solve et Coagula]

SAS soldier quits Army in disgust at 'illegal' American tactics in Iraq

By Sean Rayment, Defence Correspondent

(Filed: 12/03/2006)

An SAS soldier has refused to fight in Iraq and has left the Army over the "illegal" tactics of United States troops and the policies of coalition forces.

After three months in Baghdad, Ben Griffin told his commander that he was no longer prepared to fight alongside American forces.

Ben Griffin told commanders that he thought the Iraq war was illegal

He said he had witnessed "dozens of illegal acts" by US troops, claiming they viewed all Iraqis as "untermenschen" - the Nazi term for races regarded as sub-human.

Continue to read:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...xportaltop.html

[Watzel]

"He said he had witnessed "dozens of illegal acts" by US troops, claiming they viewed all Iraqis as "untermenschen" - the Nazi term for races regarded as sub-human"

They may not be sub human but IMO, they are a less advanced culture that is now struggling to wrap their heads around the modern world. The first step in facing change is rejection. Because they have forcefully lived their lives locked in ancient and traditional social behavior some, those that are holding firmly to their past, cannot accept the differences of the modern world.

There is no real reason that they hate the west, but they have incorporated that idea into their society and only the more open minded and mentally stable are able to desire a more modern society reflected by the west.

Anyone ever ask them why they hate Americans and Jews? Try to get them to tell you exactly why, as I have, and they cannot give you a reason beyond that they think we are infidels and are to be destroyed because the Koran eludes to that end.

I can see how they would look sub human to us. They have not made social and civil progress and so their actions look somewhat animalistic.

[Sanjuro]

they are a less advanced culture

American speaking of culture, thats kinda funny, because Americans dont have a real culture at all.

[bathory]

American speaking of culture, thats kinda funny, because Americans dont have a real culture at all.

Sanjuro, demonstrating his stupidity one post at a time!

http://english.people.com.cn/200602/13/eng...213_242276.html

those damn american troops:P

Edited April 15, 2006 by bathory

[Sanjuro]

Sanjuro, demonstrating his stupidity one post at a time!

Oh realy? You even dont have your own language..so defend yourself, tell me about your rich culture..and yes..McDonalds and coca cola dont count.

[IronGhost]

Oh realy? You even dont have your own language..so defend yourself, tell me about your rich culture..and yes..McDonalds and coca cola dont count.

Gee, Sanjuro -- I only hope we can be as perfect and enlightened as you one day. It's wonderful that a person like you -- steeped in your superior culture -- is willing to slum with the rest of us low-lifes on this humble Web site.

Please, Sanjuro, give us the benefit of your exhalted wisdom. Lecture us in art and tradition! We are sitting at your feet, waiting for your resplendent superior sensativities to uplift us all.

I feel unworthy to even ask you this. I know we Americans have been busy with things like, landing the first men on the moon, curing polio and inventing the computer and the Internet -- it's no wonder we don't have time to figure out which is the right salad fork at the dinner table.

Edited April 15, 2006 by IronGhost

[Sanjuro]

Gee, Sanjuro -- I only hope we can be as perfect and enlightened as you one day. It's wonderful that a person like you -- steeped in your superior culture -- is willing to slum with the rest of us low-lifes on this humble Web site.

Please, Sanjuro, give us the benefit of your exhalted wisdom. Lecture us in art and tradition! We are sitting at your feet, waiting for your resplendent superior sensativities to uplift us all.

I feel unworthy to even ask you this. I know we Americans have been busy with things like, landing the first men on the moon, curing polio and inventing the computer and the Internet -- it's no wonder we don't have time to figure out which is the right salad fork at the dinner table.

I didnt mean to offend everyone, just Watzel accused arabs as members of less advanced culture so he got punished.

All i meant to say is that guys like Watzel dont have rights to laught at other cultures while he dont have almost any culture at all, but he thinks that he has.

My point is not that every country and their citizens need to have ancient culture, but that there must be respect to everyone.

Watzel said "they are a less advanced culture" as he had better, because he said "less", he was compareing it.

[Johnny Truant]

I can see how they would look sub human to us. They have not made social and civil progress and so their actions look somewhat animalistic.

What-what-WHAT?!! They are PEOPLE. It's not like they're on all fours biting each other. No matter how less advanced (more regressed?) they are, they cannot be seen as anything other than people if we want some semblance of helping out over there. They were treated as subhuman because that's how the soldiers abused their power.

[PadawanOsswe]

its pretty undeniable that the Arab peoples in the ME are a much less advanced society, just like tribes in Africa are still a primitive society.

[Sanjuro]

its pretty undeniable that the Arab peoples in the ME are a much less advanced society, just like tribes in Africa are still a primitive society.

Not everyone is so lucky to be born in rich country like America.

[PadawanOsswe]

Not everyone is so lucky to be born in rich country like America.

its not about money, its about development. you think I was born with silver spoons?

[Johnny Truant]

There's a difference.

Primitive

Less Advanced

Can you hear it?

Primitive calls up images of tribesman dressed in loincloths chasing s h i t with spears. Communal fires and ritualistic dances. Bone carvings.

Less Advanced makes you think of people without television, good showers, and envision crumbling homes. Just think of the starving children with that Old Fat Christian White Guy telling you how much they need your help.

Edited April 15, 2006 by UTDAiden

[Sanjuro]

its not about money, its about development. you think I was born with silver spoons?

Yes I do.

In America its easy to get on the good foot.

If peoples are poor it doesnt mean that they are lower beings than you, dont start to think like a nazi.

[__Kratos__]

Amazing enough this topic has already been posted.

First Thread - 4 Pages Long

Edited April 15, 2006 by __Kratos__

[Fluffybunny]

What-what-WHAT?!! They are PEOPLE. It's not like they're on all fours biting each other. No matter how less advanced (more regressed?) they are, they cannot be seen as anything other than people if we want some semblance of helping out over there. They were treated as subhuman because that's how the soldiers abused their power.

Well to be technically correct many of them have been running around strapping bombs to their chest and blowing up each other, women, and children, so even though they may be a small portion of all of the muslims of the world there is such a huge divide between our culture and theirs that I can see the animosity occuring.

It makes me laugh everytime I see stories about soldiers saying something that can be construed as racist; some people here jump all over that story and call American soldiers nazis and other vile crap. In the same story if the same US soldiers accidentally kill a civilian then those same people jump on that too calling the US soldiers genocidal maniacs that are simple monsters that kill without regard for human life.

Of course if there is a story where the leader of iran threatens Israel with total destruction, those same people are painfully quiet. If palestinians, or iraqi insurgents kill hundreds of innocent women and children with a bomb strapped to their chest there is not so much as a peep from these folks. It is just silly. It is offensive and shows these folks for what they really are.

If people are going to be indignant about the treatment of human beings, it only makes sense that it should go both ways. To condemn the US and not so much as life a finger when muslims do the same thing thousands of times over is hypocritical to the extreme. I wish people would just be honest and say that they fully support the muslims and are openly against the western world. That is fine, I can appreciate that and at least I know where people stand.

To be so constantly incredibly (unfairly) critical of the US and it's soldiers is one thing but to have the gall to say "I am not against America" is just a lie that people don't have the strength to fess up to.

If a person finds every reason to post comments about the slightest unsubstantiated story regarding some supposed misdeed of an American yet lets stories about atrocities that occur at the hands of muslims slide and not make so much as peep about it, it is really clear where you stand, even if you don't admit it.

I am critical about my own country too, and if you have read my past posts you would realize that I don't let my own leadersip get away with doing the wrong thing, but I am also critical of insurgents and the M.E. as well. I was in the Army in iraq and I know what combat is like, to have people that have never so much as walked on a military base in their lifetime making huge judgements about something they have no idea about is just a joke in my opinion.

I wish the folks who have such distaste for American soldiers spoke up so vehemently when muslims did the same thing(or much worse in so many cases) to each other or to Americans.

[PadawanOsswe]

Yes I do.

In America its easy to get on the good foot.

If peoples are poor it doesnt mean that they are lower beings than you, dont start to think like a nazi.

The only people I see as lower biengs are Terrorists. (Note: not Arabs, not Muslims.the key word here is TERRORIST).

To be a manic that kills him/her self and many other innocents to push their stupid agenda is wrong and unacceptable behavior of Humans. so while the types of Al-Quada and Hezbollah may have the 23 chromosomes of a Homo Sapiens, they have the minds of demons and animals.

[Munchkin2006]

As an American, I can say that if that SAS Officer felt as if illegal things were going on and that we were the culprits and he quit because of it, I can understand that. I, along with most Americans do not condone ill treatment of anyone. I went through 13 years of police work in Texas and I never once abused or allowed anyone to abuse anyone else regardless of who or what they are. I was deeply ashamed when I learned of the goings on at Abu Graihb prison and I sincerley apologize for what happened there. It breaks my heart to see anyone abused so please do not think we are all like that. I love my fellow man regardless of race, creed, religion or nationality and I wish to God that I could do something to stop all the pain and hatred in this world today. I try to be a peacemaker but sometimes it seems futile, but I will never stop praying, nor will I stop trying. On a personal note to anyone, especially the Iraqi prisoners that were abused at the hands of my own people, I apologize from the bottom of my heart. These people will be duly prosecuted and disciplined for their actions and they are not true Americans in my eyes. I wish I could do something to make it up to you but I can't and I hope you will find it in your hearts to forgive us all. Even though I had no hand in this, I feel terrible about whats been done. Please try to remember the good that we have done as well. You won't see it on Al Jezzerah TV. An American soldier's family took in an Iraqi father and son in the states so his son could have a live-saving operation that he could not get in Iraq. That little boy is well now. An American soldier designed a special wheelchair/bicycle built out of tank parts and he used his own money for the other needed parts, for an Iraqi man with no legs. That man was able to go to the polls and vote in the last election. There are many that are not seen, especially in the Middle East that are good. That is the true American spirit. As far as the Brits go, they too have done many wonderful, humanitarian acts in Iraq and they too deserve credit along with the rest of the coalition forces that have freely given of themselves. I am not justifying what happened, I am only presenting a few things in our defense to show that not all Americans are like the ones who have shamed us. By and large, I am proud of our military men and women and proud to be an American but we too have our crosses to bear. God bless you all and again, I am so very sorry you were treated in such a horrible and disrespectful manner . Also, Happy Easter to those who celebrate it, and for those who do not, happy Sunday then. Tina

[Sanjuro]

The only people I see as lower biengs are Terrorists. (Note: not Arabs, not Muslims.the key word here is TERRORIST).

To be a manic that kills him/her self and many other innocents to push their stupid agenda is wrong and unacceptable behavior of Humans. so while the types of Al-Quada and Hezbollah may have the 23 chromosomes of a Homo Sapiens, they have the minds of demons and animals.

Since when we are talking about terrorists in this topic ?

[PadawanOsswe]

you asked who I thought of as lower biengs and I answered in order to put an end to your presuming every detail about my life.

[Munchkin2006]

I didnt mean to offend everyone, just Watzel accused arabs as members of less advanced culture so he got punished.

All i meant to say is that guys like Watzel dont have rights to laught at other cultures while he dont have almost any culture at all, but he thinks that he has.

My point is not that every country and their citizens need to have ancient culture, but that there must be respect to everyone.

Watzel said "they are a less advanced culture" as he had better, because he said "less", he was compareing it.

That was nice of you to apologize Sanjuro. I respect that in a person. As far as culture goes, we do have culture in America, many of them, in fact. I myself am Cajun, English, Irish, Scottish, French and German. Talk about your culture clashes! I get family traditions mixed up sometimes but we mostly stick to the Cajun, English, Scottish and Irish traditions. I can actually fight with myself in several ways! We Americans are not all bad just as all Arabs and Muslims are not bad. We are all people and no one is less than the other. I love everyone, and I hate war. So, get to know us first and then you can yell at us.

Edited April 15, 2006 by Munchkin2006

[StalingradK]

You want to see our culture in America? Just go through cities and towns. You will find almost all nationalities in the world in a 500 mile radius, unless you're in the midwest. America is the melting pot of the world Sanjuro, and you say we don't even have our own language? The English speak English but English didn't derive from England.

[PadawanOsswe]

as far as written language is concerned, our Written English (Websters) is its own varient.

[Munchkin2006]

You want to see our culture in America? Just go through cities and towns. You will find almost all nationalities in the world in a 500 mile radius, unless you're in the midwest. America is the melting pot of the world Sanjuro, and you say we don't even have our own language? The English speak English but English didn't derive from England.

That's very interesting. Where did the English language derive from? I'm very interested. I had no idea and I've always wondered.

[Watzel]

I don't have the data but I would venture to guess that Terrorists have killed more civilians than the US has before and during the Iraq conflict. You have to include the 911 civilians also.

So if you want to go by numbers Terrorists are ahead and they are not killing these civilians by accident to be sure. No matter how you may want God to see it, killing innocent people purposely is murder.

I still think they are not accepting of western culture, which we do have BTW, because they are behind in social advancement. They also have been getting their impression of the west through the magic of Hollywood but one problem is they are not separating Hollywood fantasy from truth.

Sanjuro, you claim to know a lot about America but you live in Latvia. I wouldn't try to tell you that I know all about Latvia no matter what I could read about it. So bite me.

[Waspie_Dwarf]

I wish the folks who have such distaste for American soldiers spoke up so vehemently when muslims did the same thing(or much worse in so many cases) to each other or to Americans.

The problem here is that we (the Americans and British) have set ourselves up as the world's police. If you are the police you have to live by the highest standards, you can not descend to the level of those you are policing. How can we criticise the criminal nations of the world for illegal acts if we are prepared to commit criminal acts ourself.

If much of the Muslim world sees us setting double standards how are we ever to convince them that we are not trying to start a new Crusade?

America must remember that with the great power it wields comes great responsibility. Even amongst the friends and allies of the United States is the fear that it is not prepared to do what is right for the greater good of mankind but only that which is good for the United States.

Nations that you make enemies of have long memories. The British Empire is now a fading footnote in the pages of history books but the hatred of the British is still strong in many quarters. There is not an Afrikaner who does not know that it was the British that invented the concentration camp during the Boer War. In 200 years time there will not be a Muslim that does know the name Guantanamo Bay.