'Man's view of Hell and Heaven

[SEARCHER 7]

Last time i was too flippant apparently.

The idea in this thread is to discuss the consequences of Judgement day. To rationalise the afterlife in a way that develops ideas about god or no god.

For example, it is Judgement Day and we stand before god. The Christians would have it that, as an NB i will be forced to go there. Will it be for eternity? Is god now just going to make us suffer?

To those who say that it was my own fault and i put myself there and i knew the consequences of this prison i now find myself in, i say this: Punishment used to be death by torture, then death by incarceration then removal of freedom then removal of freedom along with rehabilitation. Humans have learned to give each other another chance, even though some may not in the end deserve that chance, and try to help each other. Are we therefore more merciful than god?

[+Sherapy]

Last time i was too flippant apparently.

The idea in this thread is to discuss the consequences of Judgement day. To rationalise the afterlife in a way that develops ideas about god or no god.

For example, it is Judgement Day and we stand before god. The Christians would have it that, as an NB i will be forced to go there. Will it be for eternity? Is god now just going to make us suffer?

To those who say that it was my own fault and i put myself there and i knew the consequences of this prison i now find myself in, i say this: Punishment used to be death by torture, then death by incarceration then removal of freedom then removal of freedom along with rehabilitation. Humans have learned to give each other another chance, even though some may not in the end deserve that chance, and try to help each other. Are we therefore more merciful than god?

Searcher these are religious myths which you are within your right to partake of them but as you grow in awareness and understadings these ideas become as training wheels on a bicycle no longer needed...lol....

[+Paranoid Android]

Are you asking a question, searcher? My opinion is that we will be judged once we die. However, it is the result of that judgement that is in question. What is Hell? What is Heaven? DOes anybody really know.

[+Sherapy]

pa isn't it correct to say that not all christians beleive in hells and what not correct???

[SEARCHER 7]

I understand when people say they are religious myths but for me they are thought experiments. My arguments are to allow people to strengthen theirs against ideas of god.

These threads seem to me to be more of the "god exists. no he doesn't, yes he does" kind of nature, nothing wrong with that.

People do argue with believers about their use of books and 'facts' and hypothesise about god but i want to do this in a way which gets people thinking not just stick to dogma. If what i stated in my opening is true, then we now have no need of the bible for example, because we are in Hell already. It clears the way for a different kind of argument on both sides.

yes i still need training wheels!

Edited April 17, 2006 by SEARCHER 7

[stargazer123]

Last time i was too flippant apparently.

The idea in this thread is to discuss the consequences of Judgement day. To rationalise the afterlife in a way that develops ideas about god or no god.

For example, it is Judgement Day and we stand before god. The Christians would have it that, as an NB i will be forced to go there. Will it be for eternity? Is god now just going to make us suffer?

To those who say that it was my own fault and i put myself there and i knew the consequences of this prison i now find myself in, i say this: Punishment used to be death by torture, then death by incarceration then removal of freedom then removal of freedom along with rehabilitation. Humans have learned to give each other another chance, even though some may not in the end deserve that chance, and try to help each other. Are we therefore more merciful than god?

I do believe there is an afterlife in a sense but not a judgement day where we stand before God. It doesn't make sense to me personally even when I thought about it from a religious stance. I asked myself, why would God send me to a strange world with no memory of anything else but the reality I see and hear and limitations of the human body and brain only to be judged for acting within those limitations? Its like sending a small child in the middle of the road and expecting them to always look both ways. I'm not saying I believe we don't take responsibility because I do, however I believe we review our own lives in the end and the only judgement comes from the inability to forgive ourselves for the wrongs we have done to others.

Human beings have the gift of being judgemental, exhageratting, lifting ourselves up, putting ourselves down, its called ego. We are the worst judgers of ourselves and the harshest critics of eachother. I don't see God as having an ego therefore I don't see nessesity in God judging us as we do to ourselves and others. Perhaps we must take another spin through reality or deal with karma but judgement day? I don't believe so.

Just my thoughts.

[SEARCHER 7]

Thanks for the input stargazer123.

I set up this thread to discuss consequences of Judgement Day, i was hoping people would 'place' themselves there as a thought experiment though and not just say the is NO judgement day, there is in this thread

You do however raise an interesting idea about god having no ego many people think he does. In monotheism the gods have very big ego's.

[stargazer123]

Thanks for the input stargazer123.

I set up this thread to discuss consequences of Judgement Day, i was hoping people would 'place' themselves there as a thought experiment though and not just say the is NO judgement day, there is in this thread

You do however raise an interesting idea about god having no ego many people think he does. In monotheism the gods have very big ego's.

AWW shucks thanks.

I can;t speak for any religions except the ones I've been preavy to and a part of which would be Judiaism and christianity. As far as those two are concerned God has a huge ego in my opinion. Any God that could be jealous and so wrathful as too kill entire villages of women and children for mishaving has to have some sort of ego. Perhaps others view it as judgement for disobedience but why make humans anyway if you knew they were preavy to such disobedience only to destroy them when they didn't do your will?

Its as if God is saying, "Hey I'm bigger and better than you so watch out you little ants or I'll put the magnifying glass on you." No offense to anyone of of faith.

[Jodie.Lynne]

In my opinion, heaven and hell are just mans way of trying to explain and justify the inequities and injustice that occur in this life.

We see people who struggle everyday to do the right thing, work hard, and who do not seem to get anywhere. Then there are those who 'break the rules' and seem to have everything their way, without consequence.

It comforts some people to think that when we die, there is some sort of cosmic court of justice, where the good finally get their reward, and the evil their just punishment.

[Beckys_Mom]

In my opinion, heaven and hell are just mans way of trying to explain and justify the inequities and injustice that occur in this life.

We see people who struggle everyday to do the right thing, work hard, and who do not seem to get anywhere. Then there are those who 'break the rules' and seem to have everything their way, without consequence.

It comforts some people to think that when we die, there is some sort of cosmic court of justice, where the good finally get their reward, and the evil their just punishment.

Well said JMPD1....It does give comfort...if you dont get the credit you deserve here on earth ..there is only one man that will be able to give you the credit you so rightly deserve and I believe thats God himself

[+Sherapy]

Thanks for the input stargazer123.

I set up this thread to discuss consequences of Judgement Day, i was hoping people would 'place' themselves there as a thought experiment though and not just say the is NO judgement day, there is in this thread

You do however raise an interesting idea about god having no ego many people think he does. In monotheism the gods have very big ego's.

searcher why would one place limitations on themselves and call it a thought experiment???? Gods are a projection of man at his worst IMO.... You will not find this sillyness in eastern thought......or in enlightenment....Religion is a exaggeration of mans attachment to ego IMO.... Mans infantile understandings of life, much as the two year old who sees everything as mine, give me, or I'll throw a fit, its my way or no way... Certainly use this as your model but a interesting thought experiment would be whats the value and merit in it?????

[Dennison]

Hell isn't a physical place. Its a state of being, a state of mind. If you live your live as a life of sin, a live away from the light, you die and end up in your own personal Hell.

[Watzel]

Searcher, here is how I see it. And I have been looking for answers for a long time as many do.

It does not make sense that a loving God would put us here just to suffer. So, I don't believe that God put us here. I think we chose to come here ourselves.

If you can see it that way, it makes much more logical sense. But you must accept that we were once in the afterlife and chose to come here from that existence. I got my idea of this from the hundreds of Near Death Experience accounts that I have read. Many people that had a NDE were shown that we choose this life and all the hardships in it to learn. This learning contributes to our soul growth.

If you were there and you chose to come here knowing that when you die you will go back to the place you came from no matter what you did here, you may very possibly chose to make this journey in spite of all the suffering that you know you will face.

Kind of like college. You know it won't necessarily be easy but you also know that you will be better off for it when you get to the end. You will still be yourself but you will have a better opportunity through your hard work.

So it is WE that are to blame for our suffering because we chose it and God has just allowed us to make that choice and not interfere with it.

[+Sherapy]

Searcher, here is how I see it. And I have been looking for answers for a long time as many do.

It does not make sense that a loving God would put us here just to suffer. So, I don't believe that God put us here. I think we chose to come here ourselves.

If you can see it that way, it makes much more logical sense. But you must accept that we were once in the afterlife and chose to come here from that existence. I got my idea of this from the hundreds of Near Death Experience accounts that I have read. Many people that had a NDE were shown that we choose this life and all the hardships in it to learn. This learning contributes to our soul growth.

If you were there and you chose to come here knowing that when you die you will go back to the place you came from no matter what you did here, you may very possibly chose to make this journey in spite of all the suffering that you know you will face.

Kind of like college. You know it won't necessarily be easy but you also know that you will be better off for it when you get to the end. You will still be yourself but you will have a better opportunity through your hard work.

So it is WE that are to blame for our suffering because we chose it and God has just allowed us to make that choice and not interfere with it.

Watzel why would soul/god/life that is all things need to learn things come to a school and soul grow?? "It doesn't make sense that a loving god would put us here to suffer" unless according to your flow of logic its your choice, this Nde idea sounds like a religous god only a kinder version....Life is meaningless, god is meaningless, soul is meaningless that is until you give it meaning.why would life or soul or god whatever one want to label it need meaning when it is all to begin with??????

[Jodie.Lynne]

I can agree with watzels statement.

If god created everything, then everything is part of god, right? Well, how could a being of such power know what it feels like to love? to suffer? to experience joy or sorrow?

God may have supreme knowledge, but no practical (day to day) knowledge of life.

my personal belief, scoff as you will, is that we are each splinters of gods consciousness: God has divided itself in order to experience its creation. I believe that we create the situations of our existance in order to 'learn through experience' what life is for and about. When we die, we review our life, and the lives we have led before this one, in order to see what 'lessons' we still need to learn. We we are complete, we then have the opportunity to come back and help others on the path, or reunite with god and share our knowledge with godself.

That is why my belief is that there is no 'judgement' after death, except of and by ourselves: did we learn what we needed to? or must we repeat the lesson?

Again, just my own belief and opinion.

Edited April 17, 2006 by JMPD1

[+Sherapy]

Jm do you beleive this or just entertain it as a possibility, why does there have to be 'god' at all????the aspects of life that seem to have the most difficult time is the ones that reason, they have reasoned themselves into limimtations and dogmas and explinations that make no sense( not referring to you) anyhoo why do humans need to have everything defined???? why do tehy not entertain that in the meaninglessness freedom lies hmmm.......

[Jodie.Lynne]

Well Sheri, as I have said elsewhere, the god I believe in is an elemental force. Not a anthropomorphic old man with a beard, nor an earthmother. Our universe began. The fact that we are here discussing this is proof of that. LOL

The god that I believe in does not judge, praise, nor condemn us. It just is.

And, it doesn't limit us either. We ourselves set up the lessons we feel we need to learn, from one life to the next. The only limit is our own ability to learn from our life experiences.

[+Paranoid Android]

edit: sorry, erroneous post

Edited April 18, 2006 by Paranoid Android

[Beckys_Mom]

A Day In Hell

One day a guy dies and finds himself in hell. As he is wallowing in despair he has his first meeting with a demon...

Demon: Why so glum chum?

Guy: What do you think? I'm in hell.

Demon: Hell's not so bad. We actually have a lot of fun down here...you a drinkin' man?

Guy: Sure, I love to drink. Love the drinks.

Demon: Well you're gonna love Mondays then. On Mondays that's all we do is drink. Whiskey, tequila, Guinness, wine coolers, diet tab, and fresca...we drink till we throw up and then we drink some more!

Guy: Gee that sounds great.

Demon: You a smoker?

Guy: You better believe it! Love the smoking.

Demon: Alright! You're gonna love Tuesdays. We get the finest cigars from all over the world and smoke our lungs out. If you get cancer - no biggie - you're already dead remember?

Guy: Wow...that's...awesome!

Demon: I bet you like to gamble.

Guy: Why yes as a matter of fact I do. Love the gambling.

Demon: Cause Wednesday you can gamble all you want. Craps, Blackjack, Roulette, Poker, Slots, whatever... If you go Bankrupt...well you're dead anyhow.

Demon: You into drugs?

Guy: Are you kidding? Love drugs! You don't mean...

Demon: That's right! Thursday is drug day. Help yourself to a great big bowl of crack. or smack. Smoke a doobie the size of a submarine. You can do all the drugs you want and if ya overdose - that's right - you're dead - who cares! O.D.!!

Guy: Yowza! I never realized Hell was such a swingin' place!!

Demon: You gay?

Guy: Uh no.

Demon: Ooooh (grimaces) you're really gonna hate Fridays.

[SEARCHER 7]

Thanks for that lighter note BM

[Beckys_Mom]

I just had to LOL