Guard Who Saw Alleged Duke Victim Says No

[__Kratos__]

April 17, 2006 — The grand jury considering the Duke lacrosse team rape allegations has adjourned for the day and has handed down indictments, all of which are sealed.

ABC News learned that the judge told lawyers for the potential defendants in a private meeting that if indictments were brought against their clients, he would call the attorneys to inform them. They would not know the charges, however, until arrest warrants were issued.

Eighty-one indictments were returned by the panel, according to the Associated Press, and the grand jury did not reject any indictments on Monday. Twenty-four indictments were "carried forward" to be heard at a later date.

Separately, ABC News has obtained a tape in which a security guard — who may have been the first person to see the alleged victim of a Duke lacrosse gang rape after the alleged attack — says there were no signs or mention of rape or sexual assault.

ABC News has obtained an audio recording of what is purported to be a private investigator interviewing a security guard at a Kroger grocery store. It was this security guard whose call to 911 brought police to the Kroger parking lot, where they found the woman who claims she was raped by lacrosse team members.

The guard was on duty at the store on the night of March 13, when the two women pulled into the store's parking lot in a dark sedan. The alleged victim, who says three men held her down in a bathroom and kicked, strangled and raped her, was in the passenger seat.

On the tape, which was recorded April 3, three weeks after the lacrosse party, the guard can be heard saying, "There ain't no way she was raped — ain't no way, no way that happened."

The security guard says she smelled alcohol on the driver, but not on the alleged victim. She says that the alleged victim "couldn't talk at all. … She was out of it." The security guard also suggests the alleged victim may have been high on drugs. She had a series of conversations with the woman who was driving the car, but did not speak with the alleged victim.

The guard says the woman behind the wheel entered the grocery store at approximately 1 a.m. and told her that she needed help, saying there was a girl in her car who refused to get out.

A voice on the tape asks the guard whether there was anything mentioned about stolen items or sexual assault. The guard says that there was no mention of theft nor assault from either woman, adding that the alleged victim didn't act the way she'd expect someone to act after being assaulted or raped.

On the tape, the guard recounts the conversation she had with the the dancer who came into the store: The woman told the guard she was driving down the street and heard people yelling racial slurs at a woman she had never met before, then, out of sympathy, she picked up the woman and brought her to the Kroger parking lot.

This contradicts the scenario that the two women were dancing together for lacrosse players earlier that night. ABC News has seen photos of both women dancing in the house at 610 N. Buchanan Blvd.

The security guard says on the recording that she wondered why the driver didn't take the alleged victim to the hospital or to the police station, both of which are closer to the scene of the party than the Kroger store. She mentions calling 911 and recalls that three officers arrived to the scene. Police documents verify that the 911 call took place at 1:22 am.

When the police came, the alleged victim was still in the car. They tried removing her from the sedan, but she resisted, gripping the brake shaft and holding on tight as they tried to pull her out.

The security guard left the scene as police were questioning the alleged victim. According to police affidavits, the woman told police while she was in the Kroger parking lot that she had been sexually assaulted at a party.

To date, the full context of the alleged victim's story is unknown. The prosecutor, Mike Nifong, believes a crime was committed.

At the end of the recording, the guard says that police had not returned to talk with her since the night of the incident.

A grand jury in Durham, N.C., will consider today whether there is probable cause that a crime took place. If 12 out of 18 grand jurors think there is, an indictment will be returned. The crimes in question include first-degree forcible rape, a class B1 felony.

ABC News has learned that the prosecutor has told defense attorneys the alleged victim has identified two lacrosse players from photos with 100 percent certainty and is 90 percent sure on a third.

Source

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In her first statement she said she scratched the guys so hard she broke of 5 plasitc nails, yet no DNA was found on them, nor on her from the rape. Her story also keeps taking some changes. Also because she said it was white guys that raped her, the entire team gave DNA samples, except the sole black player. So not a shred of DNA anywhere to back up her story. If you scratch someone that hard they would also have a lot of visible marks, right? At the house with the search the cops found 5 fake finger nails, make up bag, ID and 160 bucks in cash. Then when the cops showed up, she resisted them.

Just sounds kind of fishy to me...

[HurtingSpirit]

Yea, ive been calling BS in my head on this since I first heard it. Just some dumb black lady, trying to play the race card, cause she probably didn't like something that was said to her at a party. Whoopdy do, if you dont like being hollard at, well dont strip. I know you are stripping "just to get through school", and to "support your five kids" but for gods sake, this story has had BS written all over it from the beginning.

Black people dont get Repriations, however whenever something happens they dont like, all they have to do is play the Race Card, and BAM, fixed.

[__Kratos__]

Yea, ive been calling BS in my head on this since I first heard it. Just some dumb black lady, trying to play the race card, cause she probably didn't like something that was said to her at a party. Whoopdy do, if you dont like being hollard at, well dont strip ****. I know you are stripping "just to get through school", and to "support your five kids" but for gods sake, this story has had BS written all over it from the beginning.

Black people dont get Repriations, however whenever something happens they dont like, all they have to do is play the Race Card, and BAM, fixed.

Yeah, that was almost a decent post.

First when I heard the story I was shocked and then I looked more into it, then I started to not believe her. You can't just say because she was black it's "BS" to start with. What the hell kind of logic is that?

Also, just to note, she's supporting 2 kids and yes, she is stripping to get her way through school. Is that so bad?

I do agree about the race card right away, it was thrown out pretty quickly on this case.

[AdNauseamSuiGeneris]

Watch out for the backlash Kratos, I mean, hell, first you are defending white cops who allegedly beat a black man, and now your are defending white adolecents that allegedly raped a black women.

Lets do the math equations that certain people put into play in the other thread.

Police = White

Accuser = Black

Defendants = White

Therefore the White police cover up the DNA evidence for the White students, making the Black woman look like an idiot? I would love to see somebody argue that these kids are guilty.

Here's my theory, they hire her to strip, but don't pay her as much as they promised, she makes a false accusation of rape. I hope SHE goes to jail.

[HurtingSpirit]

Yeah, that was almost a decent post.

First when I heard the story I was shocked and then I looked more into it, then I started to not believe her. You can't just say because she was black it's "BS" to start with. What the hell kind of logic is that?

Also, just to note, she's supporting 2 kids and yes, she is stripping to get her way through school. Is that so bad?

I do agree about the race card right away, it was thrown out pretty quickly on this case.

I would like to note that I never said it was BS to start with because she was black. I suspected it was BS, because she threw in the Race card from the beginning, and thats what all the media kept playin off of, and not the evidence. Now as it keeps going, you see this race card is getting trumped, and all the evidence is BS, so hence, I guess I was right?

Also to note, I didnt know she had kids, or was even in "school" (Out this semester due to lack of time doesnt count). But hey, what a WILD shot in the dark to have hit that she has kids, and that she is just "strippin to get through school".. Never heard of strippers using those lines before.

And as the above poster said, that sounds pretty much EXACTLY how it played out in my mind. Maybe wasnt she got shorted money, maybe was something else minor like that. But she tried using the race card, and she has filed false accusations that could put Our Future Ivy League citizens to jail. Yea thats great, lets put our nations best and brightest in jail, because some stripper whore didnt get exactly what she wanted.

Throw this piece of dog crap in jail.

[rose_ashes]

first of all, it was my impression that kratos was defending the black woman from hurtingspirit's accusations.

secondly, hurtingspirit, where do you get off calling her a **** and making those accusations? i find it quite odd how women that strip are "****s" but the men that watch them are "innocent". they are no better than those strippers. in fact, i think they are worse. their motives are worse, anyhow.

i live near where this happened, and it has caused quite a commotion, but i don't want to make any assumptions. the cop said the woman seemed out of it, but that's also a classic symptom of date rape drugs. did they ever consider that possibility? and they continue to say that DNA doesn't match, but they fail to really specify where the DNA is coming from.

also, we are failing to realize that people who go to duke are generally rather wealthy or else would not be able to afford such a college. money is very powerful, and it's definitely possible that there has been corruption behind this case that no one knows about.

and if she had two kids and was supporting them, good for her. that's a lot better than a lot of deadbeat parents can do. stripping is a good way to make a lot of money, and just because she's a stripper doesn't make raping her okay, nor does it make her a bad or greedy person.

i hope that if she is right, and these guys did what she claims they did, that they rot in jail for the rest of their lives, prefferably with a couple of large cellmates named bubba.

Edited April 17, 2006 by rose_ashes

[__Kratos__]

Watch out for the backlash Kratos, I mean, hell, first you are defending white cops who allegedly beat a black man, and now your are defending white adolecents that allegedly raped a black women.

Lets do the math equations that certain people put into play in the other thread.

Police = White

Accuser = Black

Defendants = White

Therefore the White police cover up the DNA evidence for the White students, making the Black woman look like an idiot? I would love to see somebody argue that these kids are guilty.

Here's my theory, they hire her to strip, but don't pay her as much as they promised, she makes a false accusation of rape. I hope SHE goes to jail.

I know. Heh, some days are rougher then others.

There are differences between the story stories.

Also, the cops are all white. Hell, their police cheif is black! Durham Police Dept. Homepage

With all the media on this case, it would be pretty hard to "cover-up" the evidence even with the guys all cooperating with police with no trouble. They knew all their rights when they first talked, and were only shut up by their parents lawyers. So up until then, even the own police force didn't arrest anybody based on the interviews.

I would like to note that I never said it was BS to start with because she was black. I suspected it was BS, because she threw in the Race card from the beginning, and thats what all the media kept playin off of, and not the evidence. Now as it keeps going, you see this race card is getting trumped, and all the evidence is BS, so hence, I guess I was right?

Also to note, I didnt know she had kids, or was even in "school" (Out this semester due to lack of time doesnt count). But hey, what a WILD shot in the dark to have hit that she has kids, and that she is just "strippin to get through school".. Never heard of strippers using those lines before.

And as the above poster said, that sounds pretty much EXACTLY how it played out in my mind. Maybe wasnt she got shorted money, maybe was something else minor like that. But she tried using the race card, and she has filed false accusations that could put Our Future Ivy League citizens to jail. Yea thats great, lets put our nations best and brightest in jail, because some stripper whore didnt get exactly what she wanted.

Throw this piece of dog crap in jail.

Yeah, right. I thought something else when you said BS right away.

A wild shot in the dark? Ok... I try to read the stories before I pass judgement.

Again, I don't agree with the race card. It's getting old that everytime it hits the media it's racist, racism or something.

Edited April 17, 2006 by __Kratos__

[KingTomis]

It wasnt that the DNA didnt match lacross players, there was no DNA period.

They swabbed her from top to bottom, if she even touched one of the lacross players the DNA would show up. Yet she claims she was gang raped and brutally scratched some of them.... Where is that DNA?

She just told the police a lie and now is in way over her head.

Ohh well, works out for her, Jesse Jackson already said he will pay for her college tuition no matter what the verdict.

Not that he would believe the "white devils" of the police force, lax team or the jurors. I mean, she's black, she cant be guilty, it's all "whiteys" fault.

[HurtingSpirit]

first of all, it was my impression that kratos was defending the black woman from hurtingspirit's accusations.

secondly, hurtingspirit, where do you get off calling her a **** and making those accusations? i find it quite odd how women that strip are "****s" but the men that watch them are "innocent". they are no better than those strippers. in fact, i think they are worse. their motives are worse, anyhow.

i live near where this happened, and it has caused quite a commotion, but i don't want to make any assumptions. the cop said the woman seemed out of it, but that's also a classic symptom of date rape drugs. did they ever consider that possibility? and they continue to say that DNA doesn't match, but they fail to really specify where the DNA is coming from.

also, we are failing to realize that people who go to duke are generally rather wealthy or else would not be able to afford such a college. money is very powerful, and it's definitely possible that there has been corruption behind this case that no one knows about.

and if she had two kids and was supporting them, good for her. that's a lot better than a lot of deadbeat parents can do. stripping is a good way to make a lot of money, and just because she's a stripper doesn't make raping her okay.

i hope that if she is right, and these guys did what she claims they did, that they rot in jail for the rest of their lives, prefferably with a couple of large cellmates named bubba.

Hey rose. I see what you mean, great perspective on things. Teach your daughter, or future daughter that it is ok to go shake her titties in front of 50 men, because it is the men who are wrong for wanting to see titties shaking, eat at a buffet, all while at lunch. Im sure you know that most of the girls that work at these strip clubs are drug whores? No, thats not a blind accusation. In my evil days, I sold drugs to many of whore at strip clubs, and the whores share with eachother. So you might sell one whore a gram of coke, there are 5 other whores that indulge into that gram.

Yea there is a difference between being out of it, and being on date rape drugs. See this lady refused to get out of the car, and was screaming and grasping things inside of the car when cops tried to remove her from it. Sorry, but date rape drugs, incapacitate you, they dont neccessarily give you the ability to fight with people like that. Well unless she is used to the drugs, and has a way of handling herself while on them, which I wouldnt be suprised at either.

And she has 2 kids, nobody said anything about supporting them. But im willing to bet that welfare checks do a big portion of that. Not trying to stereotype, but black stripper with 2 kids = welfare check. So yea, thanks, I try to do a good job supporting her kids, they just seem to take money without me even saying its ok.

And you say if shes right, you hope the guys spend their lives in prison. I agree with you there. A man has NO right, whatsoever to hit,rape,assault a woman in any way. But in rhetrospect, if she turns out to be lying, shouldnt she have to spend her whole life in jail??

I have heard about some of the rukuss this has caused up that way, and it has happened because of the RACE CARDDDDD.

[rose_ashes]

if they used protection, there wouldn't be any dna residue from that aspect of things.

and she said she had fake nails, so she wouldn't necessarily have dna under her actual nails.

[HurtingSpirit]

if they used protection, there wouldn't be any dna residue from that aspect of things.

and she said she had fake nails, so she wouldn't necessarily have dna under her actual nails.

Actually they said they recovered 5 fake fingernails, and those WOULD have DNA on them.. And there are more types of DNA, then just that which comes from sperm. So in a full head to toe dna, they could have gotten DNA from skin cells, epiphilesomethings, hair, amongst other things. She had NONEEEEEE of these peoples dna on her.

[KingTomis]

if they used protection, there wouldn't be any dna residue from that aspect of things.

and she said she had fake nails, so she wouldn't necessarily have dna under her actual nails.

Because everyone would use protection when gang raping a scratching and fighting woman.

And I dont think you understand this. They swabbed her WHOLE body up and down and found no DNA. No sweat, dead skin particles, no semen, no hair, no saliva.......

You see, if she was assaulted in any way, there would be telltale signs, including DNA. There was none.

What does that point to? The fact that she is lying.

[rose_ashes]

i know about the different types of DNA. but there really isn't enough information that has been given out to decide for certain what went on that night and how big of a part DNA played in it.

and your words towards me were entirely unnecessary. i don't agree with the practice of stripping, but i agree even less with the men that go to see it. did you ever think about the fact that if it weren't for those men, stripping wouldn't even exist? that's like saying that smoking is bad but the people that smoke aren't at all at fault.

i'm sure that while processing her rape kit, they would have figured out whether or not she was on drugs.

plus, her screaming and fighting to get away from those trying to drag her out of the car sounds like a disoriented and terrified rape victim's attempt to fight off more potential offenders. if i had just been raped and had more men grabbing at me trying to pull me from a car, i'd fight back too! she was disdraught. you can't blame her for that.

and they don't mention whether or not she or the lacrosse players were found with any injuries...

Edited April 17, 2006 by rose_ashes

[Pax Unum]

And you say if shes right, you hope the guys spend their lives in prison. But in rhetrospect, if she turns out to be lying, shouldnt she have to spend her whole life in jail??

that's a good question! what if she is lying?

[KingTomis]

Lets look at it another way since your so convinced someone with a vagina is incapable of lying.

Lax house. 47 team members. College party.

If ANYTHING innapriate happened at that party, someone would come forward and say something. they would try to cut a deal and get off with a slap on the wrist for pointing out his buddies. You see, when you have actually done the crime, you feel guilty, and eventually someone will crack.

Why hasnt this happened yet? Because they are all innocent. Why do you find it so hard to immagine some stripper making up a story?

And thatis just talking about the lax team members. If this was a normal college party, there was far more people there than just the lax team. Tons of girls and tons of guys not affiliated with the team. If anything happened some of them would come forward saying they saw the girl being dragged into the room, hearing screams, noticing unusual behavior.

[rose_ashes]

i'm not saying that she can't be lying, but considering that she went so far as to file criminal charges and is willing to proceed with a rape trial (in which she doesn't stand to gain any money, so what's the point?) i would like to give her the benefit of the doubt as opposed to assuming she's lying before a trial has even begun.

[HurtingSpirit]

i know about the different types of DNA. but there really isn't enough information that has been given out to decide for certain what went on that night and how big of a part DNA played in it.

and your words towards me were entirely unnecessary. i don't agree with the practice of stripping, but i agree even less with the men that go to see it. did you ever think about the fact that if it weren't for those men, stripping wouldn't even exist? that's like saying that smoking is bad but the people that smoke aren't at all at fault.

i'm sure that while processing her rape kit, they would have figured out whether or not she was on drugs.

plus, her screaming and fighting to get away from those trying to drag her out of the car sounds like a disoriented and terrified rape victim's attempt to fight off more potential offenders. if i had just been raped and had more men grabbing at me trying to pull me from a car, i'd fight back too! she was disdraught. you can't blame her for that.

and they don't mention whether or not she or the lacrosse players were found with any injuries...

Ummm, how is that smoking analogy correct??

Actually your analogy is quite stupid. These men are WATCHING someone strip. Sure there wouldnt be strippers if it wasnt for men, but there wouldnt be men at strip clubs, if there wern't women there stripping =/. That analogy you made up, fits strippers alot better then it fits guys going to strip clubs. Your analogy would fit better saying that, Smoking is bad, and people that wanna watch others smoke, can get cancer from 2nd hand smoke, and you cant blame the people for wanting to watch others smoke =/.

Then you go off on a DNA spill about how DNA would be under her fingers, then when its not, its all the sudden its NOT ENOUGH DNA INFORMATION GIVEN!!!!

Tell your daughter to be a stripper while shes in college, and that the men that are there, are at fault for her becoming a stripper, then come talk to me with that nonsense. I bet you would be a little bit hypocritical about your posts in that situation.

Yea, they didnt mention any injuries on the lacrosse players. But they sure were quick to mention how it was Whites spouting racist comments, then attacking a black. You couldnt possibly be naieve enough to think that they wouldnt mention scratches across the players they tested lol. Give me a break, that player would be behind bars already.

And I would appreciate it if you didnt dodge my question. Since the lacross players are at risk of getting many years behind bars, if the stripper is lying, should she get an equal amount of years behind bars??

[HurtingSpirit]

i'm not saying that she can't be lying, but considering that she went so far as to file criminal charges and is willing to proceed with a rape trial (in which she doesn't stand to gain any money, so what's the point?) i would like to give her the benefit of the doubt as opposed to assuming she's lying before a trial has even begun.

Oh who knows.. Maybe paid college tuition?? Thats only 15 grand a semester, so no biggy. Maybe public sympathy as a stripper?? She would be known as a saviour to blacks believe it or not, for surviving these attacks by the white devil.

[rose_ashes]

i was actually just watching a news report on it. apparently, they are still waiting for test results for hair and skin dna matches. so that's still up in the air.

and i don't think it is necessary, hurtingspirit, for you to be so rude to me.

if she is lying, she should get the appropriate sentence for perjury, assuming that this goes to trial. keep in mind, though, that they must PROVE she was lying, and not just acquit the players of the crime.

and she doesn't stand to gain any money from a rape trial, so i don't see how you think money could be a motive.

Edited April 17, 2006 by rose_ashes

[HurtingSpirit]

i was actually just watching a news report on it. apparently, they are still waiting for test results for hair and skin dna matches. so that's still up in the air.

and i don't think it is necessary, hurtingspirit, for you to be so rude to me.

if she is lying, she should get the appropriate sentence for perjury, assuming that this goes to trial. keep in mind, though, that they must PROVE she was lying, and not just acquit the players of the crime.

and she doesn't stand to gain any money from a rape trial, so i don't see how you think money could be a motive.

What about the players?? You seem eagre to throw the book at them, but when it comes to the stripper, its Oh, she should get whats withen the limits of the law for the small crime that she committed..

Ifs shes lying, I say we do a public hanging. She seems to have no problem sparking a war between whites and blacks, and setting back fragile relationship no telling how long. So she needs to be punished for Hate crimes, as well as purgery, and obstruction of justice, just to say the least. Not to mention EVERY PLAYER should try to get charges brought against her.

And sorry Rose for being rude to you. I just find it amusing you playing the gender card defending this person, like she played the race card for her reason she got "raped".

[rose_ashes]

i just hope that justice is served, whatever that may result in.

and i haven't heard anything about her playing the "race" card. the MEDIA has played the race card, not her. unless she has said in an interview that it was because she was black, i don't think we can make that assumption.

Edited April 17, 2006 by rose_ashes

[HurtingSpirit]

i just hope that justice is served, whatever that may result in.

agreed.

[KingTomis]

and she doesn't stand to gain any money from a rape trial, so i don't see how you think money could be a motive.

as I previously posted, The great Rev. Jesse Jackson and some foundation for black people are going to pay for the rest of her college tuition because of this. Doesnt matter to them that she made it up, it just got a whole lot of news coverage of a supposed hate crime against blacks which is worth millions to those people.

[HurtingSpirit]

as I previously posted, The great Rev. Jesse Jackson and some foundation for black people are going to pay for the rest of her college tuition because of this. Doesnt matter to them that she made it up, it just got a whole lot of news coverage of a supposed hate crime against blacks which is worth millions to those people.

Well they came out with supposed news that they Do infact have evidence on two of the players on the lacrosse team. I hope that no rape took place because it would make things alot better, but if there was a rape, these boys need to be punished extensively.

[__Kratos__]

Well they came out with supposed news that they Do infact have evidence on two of the players on the lacrosse team. I hope that no rape took place because it would make things alot better, but if there was a rape, these boys need to be punished extensively.

I think they just indicited two boys, but they are sealed from the public. The DA said he was going to press on even without the DNA evidence.