frogfish Posted May 7, 2006 #51 Share Posted May 7, 2006 the brain can feel pain without any outside reasons No, do you have any basis? I do..There are no pain receptors in the brain, it cannot CREATE pain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecreeper Posted May 7, 2006 #52 Share Posted May 7, 2006 than why do I wake up in the middle of the night with a headache Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogfish Posted May 7, 2006 #53 Share Posted May 7, 2006 Uhhh, its a headache...nothing to do with your dreams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecreeper Posted May 7, 2006 #54 Share Posted May 7, 2006 (edited) than why do my legs and left hurt when I wake up Edited May 7, 2006 by thecreeper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellar Posted May 7, 2006 #55 Share Posted May 7, 2006 In a sense, yes No, in no sense does it not exist, I assure you. It cannot be...its physically impossible without external stimulation Are you illiterate? I just said that it doesnt matter if there was external stimulation, there very well could have, the point however is that the pain WAS felt in the dream! Images created by your brain...Sight is different. The thing is, the brain cannot create pain w/o stimulation. It is not different at all. Sight needs external stimulation aswell. The brain, however, processes this stimulation, and turns it into the images we see, just as the brain processes the impulses and turns them into the sensation of pain. Nothing But I did feel an unpleasant sensation, which means pain. So what was it if it wasnt pain, hmm? I think...wait, I AM SURE I know more about neurology than anyone else here The arrogance is astounding. How are you sure, hmm? Take out your pons, and see how long it takes you to"come back to life" again like they do in games And thats the whole point. No one wants to take that chance. Some people believe that after death, they go to heaven. This "virtual reality" thing is along the same thing, except from a more technological stand point than from a spiritual standpoint. You apparently do now have the ability to see this whole subject for what it is. No one here is saying that if you, say, shoot yourself in the head you'll be resurrected. The subject, however, lies on the assumption that if this is a virtual reality, death is like the exit out of this virtual reality. You, for some reason, are not able to acknowledge the depth of the subject, and you expect us to take your word on things as if you were a neurologist? Unless you had an external stimulation, you cannot But it does not matter if I did have external stimulation, the point is I've felt pain in my dreams. Plain and simple as that. No, your brain makes images up..but thats different. The Brain cannot make pain w/o a stimulus. It is no different. It is exactly the same thing. Which is caused by external stimulation. So is sight. W/o stimulation of the parasympathetic nervous system, you cannot feel pain. Maybe the pain you felt was when you accidently stubbed a toe or somethinf while in REM sleep. Stage 1 Brain waves during REM only respond to stimuli...it cannot create pain What you fail to understand is, just like with sight, it is not the nerves relaying the stimuli to the brain that create the pain, it is the brain that interprets the impulses and turn them into the sensation of pain, or sight. That is also why theres such thing as emotional pain. With emotional pain, theres no nerves being stimulated by anything external, but the pain exists... No, do you have any basis? I do..There are no pain receptors in the brain, it cannot CREATE pain... Pain receptors are not needed because the brain translates the impulses from the receptors and turns them into pain. There are no light receptors in the brain, but the brain can still make images... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogfish Posted May 7, 2006 #56 Share Posted May 7, 2006 Are you illiterate? I just said that it doesnt matter if there was external stimulation, there very well could have, the point however is that the pain WAS felt in the dream! QUOTE Images created by your brain...Sight is different. The thing is, the brain cannot create pain w/o stimulation. It is not different at all. Sight needs external stimulation aswell. The brain, however, processes this stimulation, and turns it into the images we see, just as the brain processes the impulses and turns them into the sensation of pain. QUOTE Nothing But I did feel an unpleasant sensation, which means pain. So what was it if it wasnt pain, hmm? QUOTE I think...wait, I AM SURE I know more about neurology than anyone else here The arrogance is astounding. How are you sure, hmm? QUOTE Take out your pons, and see how long it takes you to"come back to life" again like they do in games And thats the whole point. No one wants to take that chance. Some people believe that after death, they go to heaven. This "virtual reality" thing is along the same thing, except from a more technological stand point than from a spiritual standpoint. You apparently do now have the ability to see this whole subject for what it is. No one here is saying that if you, say, shoot yourself in the head you'll be resurrected. The subject, however, lies on the assumption that if this is a virtual reality, death is like the exit out of this virtual reality. You, for some reason, are not able to acknowledge the depth of the subject, and you expect us to take your word on things as if you were a neurologist? QUOTE Unless you had an external stimulation, you cannot But it does not matter if I did have external stimulation, the point is I've felt pain in my dreams. Plain and simple as that. QUOTE No, your brain makes images up..but thats different. The Brain cannot make pain w/o a stimulus. It is no different. It is exactly the same thing. QUOTE Which is caused by external stimulation. So is sight. QUOTE W/o stimulation of the parasympathetic nervous system, you cannot feel pain. Maybe the pain you felt was when you accidently stubbed a toe or somethinf while in REM sleep. Stage 1 Brain waves during REM only respond to stimuli...it cannot create pain What you fail to understand is, just like with sight, it is not the nerves relaying the stimuli to the brain that create the pain, it is the brain that interprets the impulses and turn them into the sensation of pain, or sight. That is also why theres such thing as emotional pain. With emotional pain, theres no nerves being stimulated by anything external, but the pain exists... QUOTE No, do you have any basis? I do..There are no pain receptors in the brain, it cannot CREATE pain... Pain receptors are not needed because the brain translates the impulses from the receptors and turns them into pain. There are no light receptors in the brain, but the brain can still make images... I think you are missing my point. The thing is, the brain cannot create pain without external stimulation. So if we were all virtual, there would be no pain...like Video Games. We feel pain, therefore we are real. Since we are real, therefore we are not virtual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellar Posted May 7, 2006 #57 Share Posted May 7, 2006 I think you are missing my point. I quite assure you, I am not missing any point. The thing is, the brain cannot create pain without external stimulation. So if we were all virtual, there would be no pain...like Video Games. We feel pain, therefore we are real. Since we are real, therefore we are not virtual. *sigh* You fail to take into account that, if this is all virtual, the brain as we know it, along with how it works, is all virtual as well and not necessairly representative of reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulclitheroe7285 Posted May 7, 2006 #58 Share Posted May 7, 2006 ooook so first let me establish where i am on this.....i believe that we are infact in the "real world" n not sum sort of matrix design, and although i wouldnt stop for a second to think otherwise, i do think it is possible. now, onto my argument for the matrix style world..... so ppl have been saying that "how come i can feel things" and "in dreams u cant feel things", BUT wat if that was the laws of a so called matrix that we are in, cos we wouldnt know what being in the real world was like, we could be like lil sponge people losing the loss of our limbs because we dnt use them and therefore would have plugged ourselves hundreds of generations ago into these machines and my argument for the "real" world well i dnt really have one, but im just sure of it that we live in a world not directly created by computers, plus how could u manipulate the mind for such things, and if we could wouldnt we program really kool superpowers lol! also, off topic a lil...but does any1 remember being asked as a child in school to draw wat we think the human race would look like in the future??...i drew a sponge like thing...described above lol.....just asking is all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogfish Posted May 7, 2006 #59 Share Posted May 7, 2006 *sigh* You fail to take into account that, if this is all virtual, the brain as we know it, along with how it works, is all virtual as well and not necessairly representative of reality. You are missing this then. Virtuality would render senses useless. We wouldn't feel pain. We wouldn't need them. If anyone believes this BS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellar Posted May 7, 2006 #60 Share Posted May 7, 2006 Virtuality would render senses useless. We wouldn't feel pain. We wouldn't need them. And why's that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogfish Posted May 7, 2006 #61 Share Posted May 7, 2006 Its a waste...Do you feel pain in a video game? No. I truly hope you do not believe this stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellar Posted May 7, 2006 #62 Share Posted May 7, 2006 Its a waste... Why is it a waste? So what if it is? That doesnt mean anything. Do you feel pain in a video game? No. No, not yet at least. Many of the "video games" the military is now using to simulate an attack and such while in garrison actually are looking TO make the soldiers feel pain when they get hit... And what does it matter if you feel pain in a video game or not? Its completely irrelelvant. I truly hope you do not believe this stuff... No, but I believe in the possibility of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogfish Posted May 7, 2006 #63 Share Posted May 7, 2006 This is going in circles...Well, if it floats your boat, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaunZero Posted May 11, 2006 #64 Share Posted May 11, 2006 (edited) The fact that the "soul" is unharnessable...no. Its not real pain. There are no physical stimulii of neurons. Well if it feels like real pain, and it hurts, I would think it's safe to say it's "real" pain regardless of what's causing it. Edited May 11, 2006 by ZeroShadow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bomb1288 Posted May 18, 2006 Author #65 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Thos are just random impulses generated from stimuli outside the body while asleep. The mind tends to link them to your dreams. i agree with purplo... Interesting. I am in fact in my teenage yoars, and i started this thread. very interesting. Sorry, wrong quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDreamless Posted May 18, 2006 #66 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Well you know.... If we didnot create computers and the internet and such... You wouldnot go like "what if we live in a virtual world ?" But even if we didnot create spaceships we would say "What if we could reach the moon" ? There is no evidence that we live in an application and that is enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L815 Posted May 18, 2006 #67 Share Posted May 18, 2006 I think there has to be an equilibrium in the Universe. Everything has a double, better or worse. We have a physical, and non-physical. The 2 distinctions are "perception" and "imagination". Both work all the time, and you use one and the other to distinct between the "reality" and "dream/imagination". Which means, water is really water because chemical bonds hold them together. Our imagination can try and disprove this fact, creating a theory, which then can either be proved or remain a theory. It is optional what you chose to believe. Whether or not it is "real" is up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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