Ahmadinejad sends letter to Bush

[shikon1]

i dont think bush is quite smart enough to accually write a letter lol

Ahmadinejad did bring up some good points, he had some flawed knowledge but its just minor, if only he really means what he says

and democracy hasnt failed, he wants it to fail

[RedEyeJedi]

That would've been my advice to him. It doesn't merit a response.

Bush's slogan is "War AND Terror"... yeah... that's the ticket... we're dealing with someone a few cards short of a deck.

Bush CANNOT respond. End of story. He will have to address the home truths that were brought up about his tenure as chief bomb-dropper.

Don't forget this letter was translated from Arabic or Farsi (or whatever it was written in) into English by the French. Maybe they mean 'War on Terror'. Maybe

What about the time Israel being destroyed then? Then his other speeches on Jews and the holocaust being a myth?

For the last time HE DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT DESTROYING ANYTHING!! He said Israelis don't belong in the Middle-East.

Did you hear him say that about myths? Lots of people dispute they official record of the holocaust.

i dont think bush is quite smart enough to accually write a letter lol

Ahmadinejad did bring up some good points, he had some flawed knowledge but its just minor, if only he really means what he says

and democracy hasnt failed, he wants it to fail

Democracy has failed - we live in an extremely unfair world. Edited May 9, 2006 by RedEyeJedi

[RedEyeJedi]

You think the Roman Empire lasted from 31 BC to 1453 AD?

Rome was sacked in 410,and the last Roman Emperor was deposed in 476 AD!

http://ise.uvica/Library/SLT/reference/bcetoce500.html

The Roman empire lasted until 476 AD,not 1453 AD!

Your information about Rome,just like your information about Iraq and the United States,is wrong.

If you don't know the date of the fall of Rome,how can you expect people to believe what you say about Iraq and the United States?

LOL. I've heard of clutching at straws, but that's just pathetic.

Edited May 9, 2006 by RedEyeJedi

[mambo132]

You think the Roman Empire lasted from 31 BC to 1453 AD?

Rome was sacked in 410,and the last Roman Emperor was deposed in 476 AD!

http://ise.uvica/Library/SLT/reference/bcetoce500.html

The Roman empire lasted until 476 AD,not 1453 AD!

Your information about Rome,just like your information about Iraq and the United States,is wrong.

If you don't know the date of the fall of Rome,how can you expect people to believe what you say about Iraq and the United States?

I think at one point they split up and formed a western Roman empire and an eastern empire which was called byzantium. Byzantium lasted till 1453.

[supercar]

Supercar you just seem like you've been blindsided.

What on earth are you talking about?

[supercar]

Byzantium lasted till 1453.

Right,Byzantium,not Rome,lasted until 1453.

[supercar]

LOL. I've heard of clutching at straws, but that's just pathetic.

What on earth are you talking about?

[__Kratos__]

For the last time HE DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT DESTROYING ANYTHING!! He said Israelis don't belong in the Middle-East.

Want something really fun to look at?

Aljazeera: Ahmadinejad: Wipe Israel off map

Last time I checked Aljazeera is also in Arabic... How'd they mess that up?

[Michelle]

With news agencies all over the world reporting that he did say it, RedEye, why do you refuse to accept it? In this instance, it can't just be US propoganda.

[mambo132]

With news agencies all over the world reporting that he did say it, RedEye, why do you refuse to accept it? In this instance, it can't just be US propoganda.

His letter to bush does makes some good points tho and isn't from a lunatic which the west wants us to believe.

[Michelle]

I may be misunderstanding, but it seems to rationalize his hatred of Israel, therefor making his threats even more valid.

[RedEyeJedi]

I may be misunderstanding, but it seems to rationalize his hatred of Israel, therefor making his threats even more valid.

Read it a couple more times. It's a message of peace, equality and justice for all.

Where did you get that?

Edit: Oh I see. You just read the article - not the letter?

Read the letter - it's good.

Edited May 9, 2006 by RedEyeJedi

[Michelle]

No, it was in the letter...just after he writes "I'm sure you know how-and at what cost- Israel was established."

By the way...I asked you a question that you didn't answer, RedEye...you're not getting off that easy.

Edited May 9, 2006 by Michelle

[RedEyeJedi]

No, it was in the letter...just after he writes "I'm sure you know how-and at what cost- Israel was established."

How's that hatred? What about the rest of the letter?

Is it not a message of positive, peaceful change that the world needs?

Edited May 9, 2006 by RedEyeJedi

[Michelle]

*looks up at my edited post*

Maybe hatred is not the right word...disdain would be better. I think the whole thing sounds a bit hollow and although I would like to believe it I can't help but think it's a ploy. That's my gut reaction...it may be right it may not be.

I've learned there are not many people in this world you can trust, especially politicians.

[PLO]

How can anyone actually take this as incitement to hatred?, he's basicaly pleading with bush to get his act together and opt for a resolution of peace between countries and stop waging murderous campaigns throughout the world. If anybody thinks this is a cry for war then your an idiot to be honest.

[Michelle]

Well, PLO....that's why I don't try to get into a rational conversation here. There will always be someone puttin words in your mouth (like incitement to hatred) and then be called an idiot when I have been nothing but polite.

Have a good evening.

[PLO]

eh?, wasnt talking to you ffs. Was speaking in a general sense.

Edited May 9, 2006 by PLO

[Watzel]

"Ahmadinejad, a veteran of Iran's hardline Revolutionary Guards, took office in August after scoring a landslide win in a June presidential election. "

June election. 6 month.

Enriched Uranium. 6 year ( Of second Millenium)

Help me out here people I just need one more 6 and we have a bingo!

[PLO]

nostradamus did say the last anti christ would arise in the middle east, so there you go little buddy, all the proof you need. Seriously like, thats what he said, so....

[Erikl]

RedEyeJedi is a perfect example for why eventually the Isalmists will win their war against us westerners: because of our pluralism.

What symbolises our culture, what's make it possible for an American, Israeli, Australian and an average European to agree on the same basic principles, is also what's going to lead to our defeat.

You see, RedEyeJedi is so deluted with hatred to his own culture and is so filled with criticism towards his own life style that he has no problem accepting irrational and illogical statements from a mad man.

He also have no problem to agree with them.

He's so blinded with hate, that even when a mad man's words are presented to him, he looks the other way.

I have read the letter. Yes, the whole 18 pages.

Even though it is much more moderate, both in tone and both in accusations, it is not different in anyway from what the Iranian leadership is demanding and claiming in their daily hate speech.

He claims that Bush is acting against God's will - meaning he's an infidel.

Even though the letter was for the president of the United States of America, he attacks Israel right on the second page, and gives my country atleast four pages of hatred.

And RedEyeJedi, he does claim the Holocaust is a myth, even though he does so indirectly in his letter, it's quite obvious what he means:

"After the war they claimed that six million Jews had been killed. Six million people that were surely related to at least two million families. Again let us assume that these events are true"

Page 4, paragraph 3.

It's pretty simple to see that this guy isn't addressing the Holocaust as a real historical event, he just assumes for the sake of the argument that even if it was true, one cannot learn anything from it.

If you can't see this as Holocaust denial, then you are as blind as a bat, RedEyeJedi.

This letter is also quite interesting because it shows how believing the Iranian government is when it comes to conspiracy theories.

He accuses the US government of helping the terrorists in 9/11. He also accuses the US for most of the world's misseries.

And last, but certainly not least, there is this very interesting piece in that letter, that I'm sure most of you overlooked because most of you don't know much about Islam or it's history.

I call for all the readers of this thread to carefully read pages 13-16, and the first paragraph of page 17. These pages specifically call for Bush to accept Islam!

Ofcourse you could also dismiss it and claim "these pages just stress to bond between Christians, Muslims and Jews who share similiar principles", as I have at first, but closer examination of these pages specifically show that the Iranian president is directly quoting the Koran and claims and states:

"O followers of the Book! come to an equitable proposition between us and you that we shall not serve any but Allah and (that) we shall not associate aught with Him, and (that) some of us shall not take others for lords besides Allah, but if they turn back, then say: Bear witness that we are Muslims."

This phrase doesn't address pagans, it addresses "followers of the book", that is - Christians and Jews. This phrase calls upon them to accept Islam, and not accept beliefs that "other lords besides Allah" are true (for example Jesus).

In a Hadith, Muhammad tells his followers to call people to Islam before waging war against them:

Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war…When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them….If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya [the tax on non-Muslims specified in Qur’an 9:29]. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them. (Sahih Muslim 4294)

In light of that, this letter, in it's call for Bush to accept Islam, could be -- but is not necessarily -- a prelude to an attack!

[Sanjuro]

You think the Roman Empire lasted from 31 BC to 1453 AD?

Rome was sacked in 410,and the last Roman Emperor was deposed in 476 AD!

http://ise.uvica/Library/SLT/reference/bcetoce500.html

The Roman empire lasted until 476 AD,not 1453 AD!

Your information about Rome,just like your information about Iraq and the United States,is wrong.

If you don't know the date of the fall of Rome,how can you expect people to believe what you say about Iraq and the United States?

Western Roman Empire lasted till 476 , you simpleton, Eastern Roman empire ( you can call it Byzantine if its makes you happy.. ) lasted till 1461 and still they were owning.

[Erikl]

I agree with Sanjuro on the Roman-Byzantine issue. The Byzantine Empire was a direct continuation of the old Roman empire, just it's eastern part. Also the Byzantines have never called themselves "Byzantines", they called themsevles "Romans". The term "Byzantine" was given to that empire and to it's people later on in the 17th century to disconnect it from the western empire.

However claiming the Roman empire was the most powerful empire in the world is silly.

It wasn't the largest - that would be the Mongol empire.

It wasn't the vastest - that would be the British empire, in which, as the old saying went, "the sun have never set".

It wasn't the longest - that would be the Chinese empire.

However, it was the longest existing empire in the western world, and existed and influenced that part of the world shape and culture.

[Sanjuro]

Well at the start, there was no one who could challenge Roman Empire for years and years. Anyway Roman Empire was most advanced and civilized empire.

[Erikl]

Well at the start, there was no one who could challenge Roman Empire for years and years. Anyway Roman Empire was most advanced and civilized empire.

In the west, yes.

But the Romans were merely incoperating Greek, Egyptian and Persian technologies.

The Chinese were much more advanced than the west for many years and had paper, gunpowder and other great inventions many years before the west learned all of that from the Chinese.

I don't think the Romans were the most advanced or the most civilized, but they were the longest existing empire in the west and as such had the greatest influence on it (and at many times united most of the western world).