+Sherapy Posted May 23, 2006 #1 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Culturally if we as a humanity moved towards a plant based diet, would mean far fewer animals in factory farms and feedlots, far less maure produced and far cleaner water, it would mean or water would be far healthier and far less likely to harbor dangerous pathogens that come from animal waste.It would be a major step towards restoring the life giving waters of this planet that sustains us... Our choices matter , individually and collectively, our choices have a profound effect on the water that flows through our bodys is our bodies through our rivers and our streams ..Everytime one chooses to eat a plant based diet rather then the products of feedlots and and factory farms , we help reduce water pollution...wea re each in the end accountable and responsible for the integrity of our choices and the consequensces of our actions........I truly 4 years ago didn't know any of this... Veganism is more than eating plants its caring for the planet that stretches out far..To cut back on meat consumption would make the public lands of The US so much more valuable and enviormentally sustainable...Much of the western US is sunny and windy..It could be used for large scale solar energy and wind power facilities..With the cattle off the land, photovoltaic modules and windmills could generate enormous amounts of energy without polluting or causing enviormental damage..Other areas could be harvested as "biomass" fuels, providing a far less polluting source of energy such as fossil fuel is...and much of it could simply be left alone, to provide habitat for wildlife and gracing our world with wilderness..A plant based diet could return our vast praries of the west back to good health...it could mean life instead of death to extintion for so many species that are now targeted and funded by goverment programs to hunt and kill becasue they threaten the livestock...It could mean that our children could have a life that is in harmony with the natural systems of the earth..... I'd really appreciate a mature discussion with other like minds or others with reasons for a plant based diet.....I ask for no flaming ....Your opinions are welcome but this is really about what the natural world forum is all about discussing ways to care for our planet and share ideas.....thankyou...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skratch Posted May 23, 2006 #2 Share Posted May 23, 2006 While I am with you every step of the way, there will always be humans with a taste for meat. I think if is safer to tackle small groups of people, spreading knowledge, and being considerate and understanding of others. Give them information, and fight factory farming before tackling meat eaters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffybunny Posted May 23, 2006 #3 Share Posted May 23, 2006 A while back I stopped eating meat and have never felt better. I was a staunch supporter of meat eaters for the longest time and loved a good steak. It wasn't until I started running calls at the fire department where I had to clean up after horrible accidents where people had been tord apart by trauma that I found that raw beef and raw people look and smell exactly the same that it hit a little too close to home and I stopped eating meat. The amound of grain needed to support cattle to give a pound of beef is just too much to make it worth it. With so many people in the world starving it seems like a sad statement that we could feed so many more people that truly needed it than we do now. I have been healthier and my cholesteral has gone down; I have lost weight without trying and my food bill has gone down. I still can BBQ and enjoy it which is nice...It personally has worked well for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skratch Posted May 23, 2006 #4 Share Posted May 23, 2006 That's my main problem... I relate to animals too much. I work around them, and I see that the relationships they have within their breeds are no different from the relationships we have in our breed. It always bothered me that when a woman has a baby, it's maternal, and family. If something happened to the child, she would be sad. She experiences emotion. If any other creature has a baby, and something happens to the child, that animal isn't sad - it's maternal instinct. In the grand scheme of things, we are all the same. That's part of the reason why eating meat bothers me. I wouldn't hurt a human, I wouldn't hurt an animal. Everyone is someone elses baby, and I've watched animals give birth and raise their young. There is NO difference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThickasaBrick Posted May 23, 2006 #5 Share Posted May 23, 2006 I am just trying to put a new idea out here, no offense intended. I just don't think that not eating meat is in any way natural. I love myself a good steak or chicken; however, I could never picture anyone only eating meat. Humans are made to be omnivorous, too much of plant or meat will ultimately be bad. There really is no alternative, it is nature. Wouldn't it be a better idea to push towards the idea of less meat and more alternative foods? Although a portabella mushroom on the grill is great, a steak has it beat hands down. When you put the mushroom on top of the steak though, it makes both better. All I am really trying to say is that maybe the best idea would be eating what humans are meant to eat, in moderation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted May 23, 2006 Author #6 Share Posted May 23, 2006 I am just trying to put a new idea out here, no offense intended. I just don't think that not eating meat is in any way natural. I love myself a good steak or chicken; however, I could never picture anyone only eating meat. Humans are made to be omnivorous, too much of plant or meat will ultimately be bad. There really is no alternative, it is nature. Wouldn't it be a better idea to push towards the idea of less meat and more alternative foods? Although a portabella mushroom on the grill is great, a steak has it beat hands down. When you put the mushroom on top of the steak though, it makes both better. All I am really trying to say is that maybe the best idea would be eating what humans are meant to eat, in moderation. I appreciate you posting but we have a thread on vegetarians going in this area I was wanting to talk with like minds to share our journeys inspire each other when so often we are ridiculed and share why we are vegan or vegetarian or just try and eat healthy.... You can go on that thread and find others that will agree with you and many differing opinions.. Scratch and fluffy thanks for sharing....I see myself in both of you, caring for the planet and myself has become a passion, I have been a vegan/macrobiotic for 4 years.....as with you fluffy i have been rewarded with amazing health something i didn't have before veganism...I was a sickly carnivore I'm 39 so health is important and years of bad diet and 32 rolls around and many are not feeling to well I work in the public i see so much sickness in younger and younger now...Not only that but the planet I grapple with the fact i had no idea on what was going on in the food industry what damage the planet was sustaining or most of all what an animal goes through, or the polluted waters i was stunned and very angry at first..but i've tryed to take the anger and use my life to do better be the soulution.. if I even think of a cow now i start crying now that I know how these animals are treated as you scratch....My son (he's 8) was a great inspiration for us he just wouldn't eat animal as a baby no matter what he would cry if we told him in our ignorance you have too we noticed he was not only healthier but smarter than his meat eating peers...i will always be grateful to my little boy that would refuse to eat an animal......his parents learned alot and most of all we learned to care ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted May 23, 2006 #7 Share Posted May 23, 2006 "I appreciate you posting but we have a thread on vegetarians going in this area I was wanting to talk with like minds to share our journeys inspire each other when so often we are ridiculed..." Translation....if you don't agree with me I don't want to hear your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThickasaBrick Posted May 23, 2006 #8 Share Posted May 23, 2006 "I appreciate you posting but we have a thread on vegetarians going in this area I was wanting to talk with like minds to share our journeys inspire each other when so often we are ridiculed..." Translation....if you don't agree with me I don't want to hear your opinion. I agree. I wasn't veggie-bashing I was just bringing new views in. If you want to talk Veg-only go to one of your veggie-lovers sites. :angry2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted May 23, 2006 #9 Share Posted May 23, 2006 You were perfectly polite... Welcome to UM by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperactive Posted May 23, 2006 #10 Share Posted May 23, 2006 sheri, I have shared my personal experiences with you before, I beleive. For everybody else though, I will elaborate. I am what I will call "vegan plus" this time out. I eat an animal free diet plus maintain an alkaline diet which includes no added sugars, no glucose spiking foods, i eat mostly raw/whole foods, no gmo (this includes all modern wheats), no caffiene, no chocolate, no pasturized juices, no fruit juices, no alcohol, no tap water, minimal processed foods (eat when only option) ensuring no sulfites, no preservatives, no artificial colours or sweeteners. I was vegitarian for years with minimal consumption of dairy (no milks but did very occasionally have cheese in something). At that point my meat-free decision was driven first by animal treatment and secondly by personal health. When I seriously started studying foods and their effects on health and dietary performance I identified how meat is a detriment to athletic performance, and how detrimental dairy products are to health and performance. From there, it has been a continuous evolution of my dietary habits to maximixe health and atheletic performance. It goes full circle. My choices began as a concern for animal welfare, which also enhanced my own health, which in return allow me to have a smaller "footprint" on the planet. I personally view dairy and sugar as the next "tobacco". Close behind this will be the understanding that optimal human diet is animal free. Meat itself if eaten should be minimized, and animals laced with herbicides, pesticides, steriods, and antibiotics should be classified as inedible. In the end, you are what you eat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted May 23, 2006 Author #11 Share Posted May 23, 2006 (edited) I am just trying to put a new idea out here, no offense intended. I just don't think that not eating meat is in any way natural. I love myself a good steak or chicken; however, I could never picture anyone only eating meat. Humans are made to be omnivorous, too much of plant or meat will ultimately be bad. There really is no alternative, it is nature. Wouldn't it be a better idea to push towards the idea of less meat and more alternative foods? Although a portabella mushroom on the grill is great, a steak has it beat hands down. When you put the mushroom on top of the steak though, it makes both better. All I am really trying to say is that maybe the best idea would be eating what humans are meant to eat, in moderation. thankyou i wasn't offended by your opinion or your perspective, no one over consumes plants it seems there is a built in awareness that you have had your fill, not too many are suffering from a broccolli addiction lol EAting meat is a choice and as it seems making this choice or not is a huge issue in these times..this is what this is about I have no problem if you eat meat...lol Moderation is meat is definitly a wise choice....lol also you can pour sugar down your throat, you can smoke, you can eat meat but the question is how is it beneficial for yourself and body and planet......It effects all things....... Hyper thankyou for your contribution and inspiration and all the info you have shared with me I truly hold you as what I will evolve too...This gentleman here is amazing to say the least , and walks his talk..... and hats off to all of you for sharing and caring Edited May 23, 2006 by Sheri berri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__Kratos__ Posted May 23, 2006 #12 Share Posted May 23, 2006 The amound of grain needed to support cattle to give a pound of beef is just too much to make it worth it. With so many people in the world starving it seems like a sad statement that we could feed so many more people that truly needed it than we do now. Grain needed to feed the cattle is larger but the food problem isn't. We see the pictures of starving masses in populous places, but the starvation is caused by things like civil war and government corruption that interfere with the distribution of food. With more people, we also have more smart ideas. Every year we learn how to grow more food on less land. Thanks to improved technology, the United Nations now says the world overproduces food. Source And I'm out before someone throws a carrot at me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted May 23, 2006 Author #13 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Indeed agriculture has allowed us to vastly increase a few food choices and then in turn we have added more to the population, and recently industry has allowed us to reinvent the food chain, from the synthetic fertilizer to the microwavable can of soup that fits in your car cup holder..the implications of this and the natural world we are scrambling and struggling to deal with the devastaion it has rained on us...Ah yes the food chain that supports a select few the industrial food chain.....yet why are so many going hungry ????and many are....... A food chain is a system of passing calories from sunlight captured by green plants which then is stored in the form of complex carbon molecules...everything eats sunlight one way or another, now we have a food chain that draws most of its energy from fossil fuels (it too originally drew its breath from sunlight) but its finite and irreplaceable and its running out ....We have a very dependent populous that is addicted to this new food source...hmmmm if we were to do the math I'd say we have a big problem......70% of our current food source goes to feed cattle which has very little return....somewhere someone is going hungry......the vegans make up 1% of the population...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperactive Posted May 23, 2006 #14 Share Posted May 23, 2006 also sheri, do not forget that at every step in the ladder there is only approx 10% of the energy transfered, 90% lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__Kratos__ Posted May 23, 2006 #15 Share Posted May 23, 2006 yet why are so many going hungry ????and many are....... Here it is again. We see the pictures of starving masses in populous places, but the starvation is caused by things like civil war and government corruption that interfere with the distribution of food. Source People go hungry over those wars and corrupted officals. This is very true in Africa as a prime example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogfish Posted May 24, 2006 #16 Share Posted May 24, 2006 also sheri, do not forget that at every step in the ladder there is only approx 10% of the energy transfered, 90% lost That can be easily overcome though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted May 24, 2006 Author #17 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Frog in staying with the class here The vegan advocates eating low on the food chain , every step up the chain reduces the amount of food energy by a factor of 10, which is why in the ecosystem there are only a fraction as many predators as there are prey, but also processing food also burns energy. all this touting how meat is such a great source of energy and blah blah is in error once you apply a bit of science and a splash of logic......alrighty then we can now get back on topic..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogfish Posted May 24, 2006 #18 Share Posted May 24, 2006 The vegan advocates eating low on the food chain , every step up the chain reduces the amount of food energy by a factor of 10, which is why in the ecosystem there are only a fraction as many predators as there are prey, but also processing food also burns energy. all this touting how meat is such a great source of energy and blah blah is in error once you apply a bit of science and a splash of logic...... Like I said however, this can be easily overcome.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted May 24, 2006 Author #19 Share Posted May 24, 2006 (edited) Frog It seems to me you are just trolling posting nothing, if you have something to say great I;d love to hear it ....otherwise if you wouldn't mind I'd like to stay with the OP....... Edited May 24, 2006 by Sheri berri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted May 24, 2006 #20 Share Posted May 24, 2006 frog, when will you learn...blah, blah, blah, lol Between home schooling her kids, watching farmers grow her food, lol building a windmill to supply energy to her computer, lol spinning her own cotten to make the families clothes, riding a bike everwhere she goes, lol making the sun come up tomorrow... isn't it just amazing that she can be here to spread her wisdom to the lowly. Get with the class son... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted May 24, 2006 Author #21 Share Posted May 24, 2006 (edited) Michelle PM AKA personal Message your personal issues, i actually do beleive its a 'rule'...Maybe you have missed it the 30 or so times I have posted that,do you have a opinion on the topic at hand???????? Is it me or are you stalking me ??????? Edited May 24, 2006 by Sheri berri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted May 24, 2006 #22 Share Posted May 24, 2006 (edited) 30 or so times????? I haven't even refered to you more than a few times because your condescending attitude annoys me. You merely don't like it when anyone else disagrees with you. It makes no difference what my or anyones else's opinion is because you are right, you will always be right and nothing is going to change your mind...or even be tolerant and understanding of another persons point of view. Edited May 24, 2006 by Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted May 24, 2006 Author #23 Share Posted May 24, 2006 michelle you are telling more about you than me I'm afraid , sorry but the only way you see things is through your filters, we don't know each other, As two mature adults here (i have asked you many times to take your issues to PM ) to date you have not..Listen i don't want to report but you are leaving me no other option here, so for the last time its the rules out of resepct for UM i'd like to honor the rules...... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffybunny Posted May 24, 2006 #24 Share Posted May 24, 2006 ...and so anyway, we were talking about plant based diets... So, let's talk about lettuce...or tofu... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted May 24, 2006 #25 Share Posted May 24, 2006 frog, when will you learn...blah, blah, blah, lol Between home schooling her kids, watching farmers grow her food, lol building a windmill to supply energy to her computer, lol spinning her own cotten to make the families clothes, riding a bike everwhere she goes, lol making the sun come up tomorrow... isn't it just amazing that she can be here to spread her wisdom to the lowly. Get with the class son... Michelle why so b****y? I have had my own debate with Sheri over meat and vag...she know I love my meat...I have debated with her over it I told her we are designed to eat meat..she says likewise..but hey i did it without b****ing....what you have just posted is showing nothing but childishness...if I where Sheri I would just report it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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