Corn fed or grass fed?

[Celumnaz]

how does what mklsql posted, from 1 (one) ecologists perspective, tie in? I don't see a problem from that article.

Only thing I've seen so far is a localized misery type situation. The Feed Lots remind me of inner cities.

[mklsgl]

"Only thing I've seen so far is a localized misery type situation. The Feed Lots remind me of inner cities."

-Cel... I think you're correct in pointing this towards where it's most obvious, and that is in urban and suburban America--especially the east and west coasts. 10 miles off of the coasts are garbage dumps, literally. If you live near the beaches, just get up early in the morning (before the local chamber of commerce has time to clean it) and take a look at what washes up onshore. In suburban Phila where I grew up (like N. Jersey and S. Conn.), there used to be all kinds of farms and fresh produce/meat/dairy was abundant but now they're all gone, supplanted by gated communities full of $650,000+ houses. Food markets are all about product placement (brand recognition) and not nutrition. Whole Foods and others like Trader Joes (corporate organic markets) are finding a niche within the industry but it's still a very small one.

Perhaps you have better access to clear air, clean water and healthy meat/dairy/produce than the 30 million or so who live in the larger US metropolitan areas.

I just moved to South Florida from the Northeast 2 weeks ago and I can already sense the difference.

[robbieb]

i have no problem with scientific facts about articles i do howeever have problems with articles that are entirly out dated if you compare thme to current ones that ocndridict everything the other one said like in the adhd one where in one old article it siad diet plays a part and in all the new ones it says it is not diet related at all. this article gives facts that cnat be denied by anyone and i accept this article my only point was corn is a grass. all i said originaly was corn was a grass and sherri told me no so i proved her wrong. thne me and frog fish joked its people like u more thne people liek me who dont joke and just get angry that make life miserable. stress kills more young people then meat my friend relax breath calm. i have siad when i am wrong many times on this fourm ask frogfish i will never bakc down however when i know im right so dont think you can make me.

[Beckys_Mom]

or u knwo when u major in zoology u learn some bio too

Translation??? Anyone?

[frogfish]

Stay with the class here robbie and frog we are discussing Zea mays Indentata corn /grain that is fed to herbivores, In simple english this isn't the grass these animals should be eating... do you two know what a rumen is????? No frog a cow would not just eat corn unless it had been taught too......And after about 150 days without antibiotics the cow would not eat the grain at all.....

Haha, learn some biology sheri...maybe a HS level course. Cows are HERBIVORES. Last time I checked, herbivores eat GRAINS. Animals just don't eat grass alone. My Grandfather has a farm in India Sheri, you don't have experience in these matters. Throw a banana peel, corn, even some banana leaves and my cows and oxen will eat them up.

Edited May 30, 2006 by frogfish

[robbieb]

the thing to remember is cows are grazers. they eat any of a number of plants gorwing on the ground. just becuase ur lawn is kentuckey blue grass odenst mean that wild fields are they are a mixture of flowers small shrubs grasses of many types and so on. a cow will go and just grab any food it can when it bites down. they arent discrete on what they eat. and i think i have proven that corn is a grass so when they eat the corn basicly the nutrients in that will be similar to that of and grass. if u siad they are missing diversity thne maby i would agree but corn isnt the problem. and cattle have the same effects on the enviorments as bufflao they wear the groud the same way eat the same parts of the plant and have similar dropings due to the four chambered stomach(and i would liek to point out plants are harder to digest thats why horse and cow and elephant and dropings can be looked at and seen that they have grass sticxking out and stuff. remember elephants often have constipation due ot there high fiber diet) buffalo lived in giant herds too more then the numbers of cattle around now.

[Beckys_Mom]

Haha, learn some biology sheri...maybe a HS level course. Cows are HERBIVORES. Last time I checked, herbivores eat GRAINS. Animals just don't eat grass alone. My Grandfather has a farm in India Sheri, you don't have experience in these matters. Throw a banana peel, corn, even some banana leaves and my cows and oxen will eat them up.

Question (one that I would ask Sheri but since sheri dont eat meat i'll ask you)....

Can you tell the difference in the meat from a cow that was grass fed from the cow that was just fed corn??

I was reading up on it and read that a lot of people can tell the difference

Edited May 30, 2006 by Beckys_Mom

[robbieb]

some people cna its weird. some people cant tell the diffrence between 1% and 2% milk i can. if you dont plant the idea in there mind first they wont realise the diffrence. the resason somep eopel cna is because "grass fed" arent only eating grass there eating alot of diffent plants thi gives thme more diversity where as "corn fed" are only getting grass. think aobut this most people wouldnt realise they ate a buffalo steak if no one told them. the people who can tel lthe diffrence eat laot of steak. pick a food u like and eat alot and ull be able to tell if someone changed something.

[Beckys_Mom]

some people cna its weird. some people cant tell the diffrence between 1% and 2% milk i can. if you dont plant the idea in there mind first they wont realise the diffrence. the resason somep eopel cna is because "grass fed" arent only eating grass there eating alot of diffent plants thi gives thme more diversity where as "corn fed" are only getting grass. think aobut this most people wouldnt realise they ate a buffalo steak if no one told them. the people who can tel lthe diffrence eat laot of steak. pick a food u like and eat alot and ull be able to tell if someone changed something.

See I can (well I think I can)...Steak can taste really juicy and hits the spot LOL then sometmes when I eat steak it wont taste as good

[robbieb]

that is prolby because u are eating ateak foprm diffrent parts of the body liek a sholder steak is usualy rough. or how the meat was kept or for how long or how it was cooked. not nesicceraly what the cow ate

[Celumnaz]

I can tell the taste of meat that's had freezer burn. I call the taste "carrion" heh... still edible tho...

[frogfish]

Can you tell the difference in the meat from a cow that was grass fed from the cow that was just fed corn??

No...

[+Sherapy]

the thing to remember is cows are grazers. they eat any of a number of plants gorwing on the ground. just becuase ur lawn is kentuckey blue grass odenst mean that wild fields are they are a mixture of flowers small shrubs grasses of many types and so on. a cow will go and just grab any food it can when it bites down. they arent discrete on what they eat. and i think i have proven that corn is a grass so when they eat the corn basicly the nutrients in that will be similar to that of and grass. if u siad they are missing diversity thne maby i would agree but corn isnt the problem. and cattle have the same effects on the enviorments as bufflao they wear the groud the same way eat the same parts of the plant and have similar dropings due to the four chambered stomach(and i would liek to point out plants are harder to digest thats why horse and cow and elephant and dropings can be looked at and seen that they have grass sticxking out and stuff. remember elephants often have constipation due ot there high fiber diet) buffalo lived in giant herds too more then the numbers of cattle around now.

Robbie you started out strong than fizzled...You have proved nothing but you don't know that cows aren not natural grain eaters they have been taught to eat grain.... you have proved that you know how tro take what you bleive and twist your logic tofit it......I've explained all this corn is not Basically the same as grass in nutrients....If you are gonna goggle now would be the time.......Again boys do you know what a Rumen is?????

frog you have a story for everything...frog how do you feel about fish being bred to eat corn?????What does a fish eat naturally???? Robbie you clearly donot know of what you speak....i'm moving on to greener pastures lol thanks for the chat boys.....

Geri, I have been a vegan for 4 years, i always thought meat tasted terrible i quit eating beef in the 80's no pork since 79, chicken is too slimy and just doesn't taste good , I actually sort of liked turkey burgers but only occassioinally...fish yuck to dangerous to eat has been for a long time. in the US.... I have probably never had grass fed only corn and its horrible....How can something taste good that isn't rasied on the right feed and the suffering and sicknessthese animls endure not like you grew up with animals that werer loved and cared for............those are the days we are trying to get back....

[frogfish]

frog you have a story for everything...frog how do you feel about fish being bred to eat corn?????What does a fish eat naturally????

They don't

You have proved nothing but you don't know that cows aren not natural grain eaters they have been taught to eat grain

They are HERBIVORES...THEY EAT GRAINS. What do you not get?

[+Sherapy]

They don't

They are HERBIVORES...THEY EAT GRAINS. What do you not get?

A herbivore doesn't eat grain (Zea mays indenta) naturally... goggle ...frog are you saying fish don't eat, or they don't eat corn?????they are being bred to eat corn what do you think of that......i get you didn't know that.... frog is ice berg lettuce and spinach the same to you???????Is soy milk and cows milk the same too you??? Why can't you eat grass frog???I bet you think breast milk and formula basically the same thing frog so you know what a rumen is ......Do you understande the difernce between normal and natural????

Edited May 31, 2006 by Sheri berri

[robbieb]

yes i know what a rumen is. what i dont tihnk is why u keep bringing it up. the fact that plants are so hard on mammalian digestion that all herbivores hav e developed certain methods of eating them only disproves utr point that people dont need meat if we werem ent to only eat plants we would have our own methond to andle ther food too. weiter it is constant grazing chewing cud 4 stomachs bacteria in the stomach to break it down or what have u but we do not have any of those.

Frogfish apparently sherri is to stuck in her ways ot understand anything new. the expression cant teach an old dog new tricks coems to mind.

[frogfish]

A herbivore doesn't eat grain (Zea mays indenta) naturally

Hahaha! Even a Elementary science class will teach that! You are misinformed

frog are you saying fish don't eat, or they don't eat corn?????

The latter.

[+Sherapy]

Frog a cow by NATURE is not a corn eater, it has been a wonder of science to get these herbivores to eat corn......CORN was originally a generic word to describe all grain (late 1600 's) You are just arguing to argue as always with no real knowledge to support your 'claims' you should know if your uncle is a rancher that cows aren't NATURALLY grain eaters.......You are simply apeing robbie....and then in typical fashion you are using insults to debate...do you have something or not.......

Frog why doesn't a fish eat corn????????

[Celumnaz]

Fish didn't used to eat corn because corn didn't usually grow under water where the fish were.

those are the days we are trying to get back....

Why are you advocating cessation of scientific study??/???

Why do you want to take us back to the dark ages????questionmark??

[+Sherapy]

Celum are you kidding we are in the dark ages, we are feeding animals feed that isn't there diet, we are knowingly pumping animals full of hormones and antibiotics which would be unnessecary if the animal was raised naturally on food it is suppossed to eat...We have just about run out of oil due to our mass consumption of fossil fuel...We have abused the planet so much our weather patterns are being affected...many are drinking milk that is full of chemicals, eating pesticided fruits ad vege, becasue they can't see the value of payiing and supporting a industry that will benefit them and all others..our health care industry is a disease managment institution.....Americans are the sickest people there are.....Obesity is normal, as is often the situation most don't see beyond the circle they have enclosed themselves in, what you put into your mouth will be you in 15 years I'd love to you talk then...where do you think the pesticides and chemicals go do you think they magically disappear????? So you tell me the wonders of science celum ha hah ahahah lol...............

[robbieb]

we still have at least another 40 years of oil pumping and were finding more and more and new drills are allwoing us to get more from ones we coudlnt get. fossil fule isnt perfect but if it wasnt for it u wouldnt be living the life you are right now. its not that these animals are eating food they shouldnt which is why they need antibioitics its that famrers dont want to play survival of the fittest. a herd will go threw sickness that they are not immune to its a natural occurance we see it in school all the time one kid gets sick they all get sick or something similar li9ke chicken pox. allowing this natural procces to happen would only lead to loss of cattle life.

talk about chemicals and pesesides ur plants get more thne cattle do. evne organic ones get some.

[skratch]

sorry, I deleted the rest of this. I double posted by accident.

Edited May 31, 2006 by skratch

[skratch]

So, I ask pardon if a lot of what I have to say has been covered, but hopefully I'll make some decent wisecrack.

Grass farmers use little to no pesticides or fertilizers, they do little to support the agribuisness or the pharmacueticals...grass does nothing for the nations power or balance of payments and no farmer gets subsidized for using grass not like the corn growers do....Grass can't be broken down into a myriad of molecules to be rearraanged into a cornucopia of processed foods.ONLY meat,milk and fiber is about all you can get out of grass and the only way to do this is with a living organism....Grass feed i'm afraid dosen't oil the hub of industry and Indsutry has no use for things it can't bend to its bottom line........Industry Rules the day.........The idea of the grass fed animal is maybe nothing more than a really good story........

discuss......

Robbie you started out strong than fizzled...You have proved nothing but you don't know that cows aren not natural grain eaters they have been taught to eat grain.... you have proved that you know how tro take what you bleive and twist your logic tofit it......I've explained all this corn is not Basically the same as grass in nutrients....If you are gonna goggle now would be the time.......Again boys do you know what a Rumen is?????

frog you have a story for everything...... [H]ave probably never had grass fed only corn and its horrible....How can something taste good that isn't rasied on the right feed and the suffering and sicknessthese animls endure not like you grew up with animals that werer loved and cared for............those are the days we are trying to get back....

First things first, I don't know about you, but up here in Canada, we feed our cows hay, not grass. If they can find a patch to forage on, all the better, but cows are like vacuums. 1 acre for 5 cows wouldn't be enough, as they eat approx 16 hours (or something close to it) of their day. So, we give them hay, or silage, or something to give them enough food and to keep them healthy. (Healthy enough, anyway..)

Next thing, you can't feed a cow ONLY corn. We use to add it in to their diet, but that's because it adds bulk to the animal, and it's cheap. It's not going to hurt them. But if they fed the cows corn unaccompanied by anything else, they would be so vitamin and mineral deficient that they would hardly be good to eat.. Unless you were talking about dairy cattle, in which case you are way off, since lactating cattle need a very healthy and proper diet to keep them giving milk.

There are a number of things you can feed cows, and the choice is entirely up to the farmer. It ranges from barley grain, to grass and grass alfalfa hay, legume hay, brome hay, oat hay, to cerial silage or corn silage, and the list goes on. It all depends on where you live and what added minerals you need to supply the animal so it gets the sufficient quantities to promote health and to optimize production and reproduction. A farmer wouldn't just give a cow corn because it's cheap and good for the economy. They want to feed these animals properly so that they can make the best herd possible.

Now, I'm not sure if any of you are familiar with livestock, but when an animal is salt or mineral deficient, you'll find it eating sand/dirt to get its requirements. I even use to watch the sheep at my old barn lick cars (in winter) to get the salt off them. The feed you give depends on where you live, and what you need. Maybe corn silage is the norm where you live sheri, but I doubt that the beef cattle are severely unhealthy, as the farmers would suffer too.

the thing to remember is cows are grazers. they eat any of a number of plants growing on the ground. just because ur lawn is kentucky blue grass doesn't mean that wild fields are they are a mixture of flowers small shrubs grasses of many types and so on. a cow will go and just grab any food it can when it bites down. they arent discrete on what they eat. and i think i have proven that corn is a grass so when they eat the corn basicly the nutrients in that will be similar to that of and grass. if u siad they are missing diversity thne maby i would agree but corn isnt the problem. and cattle have the same effects on the enviorments as bufflao they wear the groud the same way eat the same parts of the plant and have similar dropings due to the four chambered stomach(and i would liek to point out plants are harder to digest thats why horse and cow and elephant and dropings can be looked at and seen that they have grass sticxking out and stuff. remember elephants often have constipation due ot there high fiber diet) buffalo lived in giant herds too more then the numbers of cattle around now.

Robbie - I started correcting your spelling mistakes in that, but then decided it was too much work.. I can't understand some.. I'm OCD about spelling...

Umm.. Basically you are right. Cows aren't picky eaters, (when I was a little girl I use to go across the street to this field which had a bunch of beef cows (only I didn't know they were beef cows then) and I had this one named Clover that I really liked who always came up to me and ate clovers out of my hand. Go figure. I think I started developing a hate for meat once I learned someone ate her...*cough off track cough*) but it depends on what you give them. There are certain plants that they won't eat, mostly poisonous ones, thankfully. But again, cows rarely have enough to graze on in the field, and that's why we feed them extra hay, silage, and grains.

Robbie - One thing I don't agree with is how you think that cows are the same as buffalo. First of all, I wouldn't have ANY problem with people eating meat if cows were wild like the buffalo were. Heck, I'd go kill myself a cow for supper and be eating steaks. But unfortunately, cows support a whole array of problems that we never saw when the buffalo roamed freely. I would also like to say that cattle are domesticated, while the bison were not. Cows have that effect on the world because we make them have this effect. We could solve world hunger with the food and water we use for them, but we don't. That's one major problem I have with the cattle industry... World hunger can be solved. If we wanted to and were all vegetarian that is...

Instead we use it on cows that we eat to satisfy our unnecessary cravings.

And as for "stuff" sticking out of the animals feces, do you know why? Man, and you took zoology?? Not all the grass is entirely digestable, for the purpose that the animals take in the nutrients it needs from the plants, and excretes the rest. Once the nutrients are gone, there is no point in digesting the rest. This is why herbivorous animals spend most of their day eating, however they are very efficient. There's not much nutritional value in grass. So they eat a lot, and it goes through them very fast. Although mostly, it is digested, unless you feed your animals really low quality hay.

Anyways..

Keep your eyes on the ball, everyone, and know what to tackle.. If you don't know where your meat is from, simply don't eat it. The main problem you would run into is a cattle rancher who is cheap enough to feed low quality grains, and pump his cattle with antibiotics to prevent from getting sick, and growth horomones so he could feed less. And the unfortunate sick ones would get fed to the rest of the herd. Yea, it's illegal. That doesn't stop anyone... And then you are going to be eating those too. I have a major problem with this, but I also have a problem with feeding them high quality grains so we can eat tastier meat.

People say that they eat meat because we evolved to be smarter and eat this way. If that's your argument, then you are ignorant, but that's besides the point. If you eat meat, you support the starvation of those in third world countries. The food used to feed that steak you ate last night could have been used to save someones life.

How's that for evolution. We can survive without meat, we can be healthier on a plant based diet, and still we choose meat. Not only does it support animal suffering, but it also supports human suffering. We've evolved to be stupid, and blind to the truth, if anything.

My most favorite quote:

"If anyone wants to save the planet, all they have to do is just stop eating meat. That's the single most important thing you can do. It's staggering when you think about it. Vegetarianism takes care of so many things in one shot: ecology, famine, cruelty."

~Paul McCartney

p.s: Robbie: "talk about chemicals and pesesides ur plants get more thne cattle do. evne organic ones get some."

Meat is WAAAAYYYYYY worse for you than plants!!! MAN! Don't get me started! Yea, the plants do get some, but we can wash them. And depending where you buy your organic fruits and veggies, they don't necessarily have any. Go to a natural food store or a farmers market and you should be ok. For the love of all things holy, stop looking for damn excuses to eat meat!! If you want to eat it, then that is PERFECTLY fine, but don't be ignorant to the fact that todays meat provided by supermarkets and grocery stores (and a lot of other places) is bad for you in every way, shape, and form. Just admit it.

AND! As for veggies being so bad... I'd like to see you scrub your meat down so it's free of antibiotics and horomones, and poo. Yes, there is feces in your meat. At least a little. I guarantee.. Maybe use a little soap, I hear all those things are hard to get out since the meat is entirely composed of B.S.

[+Sherapy]

we still have at least another 40 years of oil pumping and were finding more and more and new drills are allwoing us to get more from ones we coudlnt get. fossil fule isnt perfect but if it wasnt for it u wouldnt be living the life you are right now. its not that these animals are eating food they shouldnt which is why they need antibioitics its that famrers dont want to play survival of the fittest. a herd will go threw sickness that they are not immune to its a natural occurance we see it in school all the time one kid gets sick they all get sick or something similar li9ke chicken pox. allowing this natural procces to happen would only lead to loss of cattle life.

talk about chemicals and pesesides ur plants get more thne cattle do. evne organic ones get some.

Robbie that is in error, i am not gonna retype tons of info each time reread posts...the antibiotics HAVE to be used due to the cows being fed a diet that is unnatural to them....

again not true one kid gets sick they all do, a unhealthy host to begin with will most likely get sick not a healthy one....My vegan kid (8) proves taht to be untrue...a kid eats bad they get sick its not rocket science, most illness is food borne and water borne.......organic plants do not NEED pesticides a plant if left alone will protect itself, pesticides actaully interfer with this process making plants weak and defensless and you eat these also bugs are natures censures they tell you something is off.......

[+Sherapy]

Scratch that is basically what i have been saying YOU CAn't feed a cow just corn and here in america we do, ( its rectified by mass amounts of antibiotics) for the most part there may be a rancher here and there but the majority is feedlot.......Grass is basically photovoltiac panels the moment a cow shears a clump of grass, it sets into motion a sequence of events that will confer a measurable benefit to this square foot of pasture..this shorn grass plant, restores the rough balance between the roots and leaves and will proceed to shed as much root mass as its just lost in leaf mass..When the discarded roots die , the soils population of bacteria, fungi, earth worms will get to work breaking them down into a rich brown humus. what had been the grass plants roots will run channels through which worms, air, and rainwater will move through the earth, stimualting the process by which new topsoil is formed.......now back on top the cows shearing of the grass will stimulate new growth, as the crown redirects reserves of carbhydrates energy from the roots to form new shoots.you see the cows are good for the enviorment they haev a place a very important place...wath they take they give back .......

Scratch its misleading to speak of any grass plant in isolation since many different plant species form many different functions and occupy one square foot of pasture..this biodiversity has a great many benefits to all parties at the most basic level it allows the farms land to capture the maximum amount of solar energy, if the areas that are now being used to grow corn were used for pastures it would go along way in restoring the planet....the biggest problem is many don't get the whole picture , they only see bits and pieces nature is a interdeepndent relationship all parts are interrelated and connected for the good of the whole.....

cows eat white clover, bluish fescue, timothy clumps , orchard grass, red clover, millet, plaintain, bluegrass, sweet grass each of these provides the cow with nutrients and minerals it needs, if it is feeling alittle off it will inherently know which grass to eat to help....