2 Bible Chapters

[ramster83]

Hey everyone! So the Bible...a huge book- supposedly influenced by God. Some believe it as entirely true and uncorrupted word by word...Some remain skeptics and believe there maybe traces of truth in it...while others feel it is a book with nothing else to offer besides myths and fantasy.

I personally feel 2 chapters in specific can talk for the ENTIRE Bible. Forget Genesis- forget "how we came to be" - forget stories of men in whales bellies and a man on a boat with perhaps millions of animals with him. Forget Satan. Forget Gods wrath and revenge...Forget hell..Forget "fire and brimstone"...forget prohecies!

To me 2 books in the Bible are to me surely heavenly inspired- i dont care who wrote it or when- but the words written in these chapters are good...infact great...and thats what God is. These 2 chapters are full of amazing poetry, beautiful words of wisdom which are so true to humanity - i think if the Bible simply constituted of these 2 chapters (no matter how small a book it was) it would reach to a wider audience.

There'd be no contradictions, no confusion - nothing of that sort. Remember it is quality and not quantity and although the Bible is a huge book- its quality isnt great. There are many stories in it- some are negative lets face it...some are down right gruesome! Whats the point of these stories? If God wanted us to be the best we could be then Psalms and Proverbs should be the Bible of today.

It still verifies Jesus- it still speaks of God but most of all it is in a level that humanity even today could understand. Here are a few awesome quotes from these chapters which show to me- it doesnt matter if it was simply written by King Solomon- this "wise man" was good and he kept it real. Whats amazing is we havent "evolved" in attitude- Some of these were written about 2,900 years ago based on humanity and the situation is exactly the same- human behaviour...wheres our evolution? In 2,900 years we havent changed...Also take note how we still use these quotes today? Take a look at these quotes.

The Author of proverbs instantly states the purpose of Proverbs was... "To know wisdom and instruction, to perceive the words of understanding, to receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, judgment, and equity; to give prudence to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion"

"..Seek peace , and pursue it..."

- Psalms 34:14

"...A merry heart doeth good like medicine..."

- Proverbs 17:22

"..A gift is as a precious stone in the eyes of him that hath it..."

Proverbs, 17. 8

"..He who digs his own pit shall fall in it ..."

Proverbs, 26. 27

“Work hard and become a leader ; be lazy and never succeed.."

Proverbs 12:24

“Be patient and you will finally win, for a soft tongue can break hard bones .."

Proverbs 28:13

"..Weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning..."

Psalm 30. 5

"..The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy .

He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger for ever..."

Psalm 103. 8

"..I said in my haste, all men are liars ..."

Psalm 116. 11

"Behold how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity .."

Psalm 133. 1

My Question was if you know the Bible and are a non believer (or skeptic) and if the Bible was simply the 2 chapters Psalms and Proverbs- would you find it easier to believe in God?

And who said the Bible was ALL rubbish?

[Venomshocker]

To me 2 books in the Bible are to me surely heavenly inspired- i dont care who wrote it or when- but the words written in these chapters are good...infact great...and thats what God is. These 2 chapters are full of amazing poetry, beautiful words of wisdom which are so true to humanity - i think if the Bible simply constituted of these 2 chapters (no matter how small a book it was) it would reach to a wider audience.

Or it is just common sense.

Look up the Hermetica, the vedas, confuscionism and start reading passages from there. They all contain so many words and passages of common sense wisdom. I dont see how the bible is any better than all the other religous texts of the world when it comes to this kind of information.

[GreyWeather]

to bad the bible was messed around with, and things were taken out or changed dramatically...

[Hermetic Hermit]

My Question was if you know the Bible and are a non believer (or skeptic) and if the Bible was simply the 2 chapters Psalms and Proverbs- would you find it easier to believe in God?

And who said the Bible was ALL rubbish?

I would find it easier to accept that the Biblical God is the all-loving deity he is claimed to be and keeps true to his word but I doubt it would cause me to believe him to be anything other than a creation of man.

But yes my favourite quote is from Proverbs...

"Happy is the person who finds wisdom and gains understanding. For the profit of wisdom is better than silver, and her wages are better than gold. Wisdom is more precious than rubies; nothing you desire can compare with her. She offers you life in her right hand, and riches and honor in her left. Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace. Wisdom is a Tree of Life to those who embrace her; happy are those who hold her tightly." Proverbs 3:13-18

...but the concept of dropping most of the Bible and keeping a small portion of the "good" books makes me think of, giving the advice to an abused woman to forget about her husband beating her, the foul things he says to her and only think of the times he tells her how much he loves her(usually only after he beats her).

[mklsgl]

1. My family (socialization) planted the proverbial seed. The Torah gave me a foundation for belief. The Bible raised questions. The Talmud expanded my religious education. Yet, I think I was always agnostic at heart.

2. "Job" is used a lot of profs who teach Tragedy in Literature, and much of the Bible can be used for Studies in Classic Rhetoric.

[+Paranoid Android]

Proverbs and Psalms are great. Full of wisdom and beauty. A joy to read. I do however think the Bible is more useful as a whole, rather than just these two books. If we absolutely had to condense the Bible into a smaller work, this would be my selection - Genesis, Psalms, Proverbs, John and Romans. Though I believe the Bible the Bible as a whole shows God's unfolding pattern for humanity, the outpouring of God's Love for His people, so I personally wouldn't get rid of any of it. I don't see the rest as "useless" as you put it.

Good thread, ramster.

Regards, PA

Edited June 10, 2006 by Paranoid Android

[ivytheplant]

How in the world can we dismiss Song of Solomon? Those kept me...warm on cold winter nights!

[ramster83]

How in the world can we dismiss Song of Solomon? Those kept me...warm on cold winter nights!

Song of Solomon is fantastic! A great read!

[ramster83]

Proverbs and Psalms are great. Full of wisdom and beauty. A joy to read. I do however think the Bible is more useful as a whole, rather than just these two books. If we absolutely had to condense the Bible into a smaller work, this would be my selection - Genesis, Psalms, Proverbs, John and Romans. Though I believe the Bible the Bible as a whole shows God's unfolding pattern for humanity, the outpouring of God's Love for His people, so I personally wouldn't get rid of any of it. I don't see the rest as "useless" as you put it.

Good thread, ramster.

Regards, PA

Yeah well useless to the skeptic / non believer...Remember they find chapters in the Bible with violence, murder and all negative things as non Godly- so they fail to believe in it for that reason- the chapters you selected were all good though...

[Beckys_Mom]

Yeah well useless to the skeptic / non believer...Remember they find chapters in the Bible with violence, murder and all negative things as non Godly- so they fail to believe in it for that reason- the chapters you selected were all good though...

No offence to you ramster..please don't take this the wrong way...but I don't believe in it period...not just because of the negative things..but the stories that dont add up either...but hey its just my opinion right If you find it a good read so be it good for you

[ramster83]

No offence to you ramster..please don't take this the wrong way...but I don't believe in it period...not just because of the negative things..but the stories that dont add up either...but hey its just my opinion right If you find it a good read so be it good for you

ahaha no offence taken girl! Yet i understand the stories dont add up and stuff- but im talking more on the perspective of moral and attitude- these 2 chapters dont have stories as such but some incredible one liners.

[RachelM]

Yeah well useless to the skeptic / non believer...Remember they find chapters in the Bible with violence, murder and all negative things as non Godly- so they fail to believe in it for that reason- the chapters you selected were all good though...

I don't know that Psalms and Proverbs are good examples of non-violent chapters in the Bible. Psalms is full of violence and Proverbs has its share, as well.

Psalms 2:7-9

I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Psalms 3:7

Arise, O Lord; save me, O my God: for thou hast smitten all mine enemies upon the cheek bone; thou hast broken the teeth of the ungodly.

Psalms 11:5-6

The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.

Psalms 58:3-10

The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;

Which will not hearken to the voice of charmers, charming never so wisely.

Break their teeth, O God, in their mouth: break out the great teeth of the young lions, O Lord.

Let them melt away as waters which run continually: when he bendeth his bow to shoot his arrows, let them be as cut in pieces.

As a snail which melteth, let every one of them pass away: like the untimely birth of a woman, that they may not see the sun.

Before your pots can feel the thorns, he shall take them away as with a whirlwind, both living, and in his wrath.

The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked.

Proverbs 20:30

The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly.

Proverbs 22:15

Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

Proverbs 23:13-14

Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.

Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

Proverbs 30:17

The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it.

David comes across as a bloodthirsty whiner, and Solomon obviously didn't like kids.

[ramster83]

David Bloodthirsty? He was exactly the opposite- he hated violence but was often caught up in violence by his enemies and attackers- whats a man to do? It's written used in a poetic method- so you cant instantly distinguish whats been translated as violence.

Psalms 2:7-9

Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

The above verse is only figuaratively speaking. He is saying that his attackers should be shattered by Gods will. He is talking about his attackers here and his protection- its typical talk of defence...only..poetic.

Psalms 3:7

Arise, O Lord; save me, O my God: for thou hast smitten all mine enemies upon the cheek bone; thou hast broken the teeth of the ungodly

.

Again this is him asking for protection and speaking on self defence. Broken the teeth can mean anything- thats obviously not kill and why'd God break their teeth? Its not to be taken literally- he's using powerful words in his self defence.

Psalms 11:5-6

The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

He is saying God hates people that love violence. He is opposed to it- and this clearly shows his tone of voice which reveals he is only talking of his attackers and enemies. Human nature.

Psalms 58:3-10

The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies. Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear; Which will not hearken to the voice of charmers, charming never so wisely. Break their teeth, O God, in their mouth: break out the great teeth of the young lions, O Lord. Let them melt away as waters which run continually: when he bendeth his bow to shoot his arrows, let them be as cut in pieces.

This is still wonderfull written. Here he is talking about decievers and charmers who are raging into war. You dont seem to understand what hes saying. When he says "break their teeth of the young lions"...thats not saying to kill them - hes asking for God to make them powerless...Lions= Power - Teeth = Defence - He wants their defence broken so they lose their power.

As for the quotes in Proverbs regarding Children. Beating a child with the "rod"- what does that mean exactly? We can say it means physically abusing the child but it could be translated to other things to- the rod of correction is a line used. Whats a rod of correction?

I think theres mis-interpretation in most of the texts- so its hard to exactly see what they were implying, but even with the quotes you have given me they are nowhere near good enough to dismiss the works of David and Solomon.

Edited June 11, 2006 by ramster83

[ivytheplant]

Whats a rod of correction?

I'm pretty sure it wasn't referring to a time-out.

[RachelM]

David Bloodthirsty? He was exactly the opposite- he hated violence but was often caught up in violence by his enemies and attackers- whats a man to do? It's written used in a poetic method- so you cant instantly distinguish whats been translated as violence.

Even if David didn't mean that he literally wanted god to go kick butt for him, he still used violent terminology.

I think maybe David was bi-polar. He seems to go from one extreme to the other very often in the book of Psalms.

As for the quotes in Proverbs regarding Children. Beating a child with the "rod"- what does that mean exactly? We can say it means physically abusing the child but it could be translated to other things to- the rod of correction is a line used. Whats a rod of correction?

The Hebrew word used for rod in this passage is shebet, and it means stick. So, looks like Solomon recommended beating kids with a stick. Considering that he had 700 wives and 300 concubines, there had to be a poop-load of kids running around, so I guess after the first 50 or so, he just decided that hitting with them a stick was the only way to control them.

[branbran]

Just my take on the subject....take as you will...

The Bible teaches us that God is a loving God, although, there is violence throughout the text...How can a religion, which I believe is the only one that gives us this type of violence, be so huge? I think it speaks true to the individuals heart...When a life threatning situation comes up, would you pray if your a non-believer? Bet your damn ass you would....just in case, right?

ISAIAH is a book that can verify the text of the Bible...something I've learned, maybe you all already know this...Isaiah is composed of 66 chapters. The first 39 speak of the wrath of God...and God must do something about it...The final 27 chapters speak of a Messiah coming to save us all....

Now, the Bible is composed of 66 books....the first 39 - Old Testament, Gods wrath....Final 27 books - Jesus....Is that a type of confirmation for the book?

Edited June 12, 2006 by branbran

[+Paranoid Android]

^Not particularly since chapters/verses are arbitrarily placed and have no real relation to the text.

[branbran]

^Not particularly since chapters/verses are arbitrarily placed and have no real relation to the text.

Well Isaiah is the center of the Bible....But I'm sure they've been messed around with...But the message remains the same...

Edited June 12, 2006 by branbran

[+Paranoid Android]

And again, the construction of the individual books from the BIble are also arbitrary. Isaiah could have just as easily been the last book of the Old Testament. They're not all put in in chronological order.

edit: though I supposse an argument could be made that if this was the Word of God, then how it is structured now within the collection of other works is how God intended it to be, therefore, the middle of the Bible, 39/27 chapters in Isaiah, one could imagine that God intended it that way. I would say it's more likely luck though.

Regards, PA

Edited June 12, 2006 by Paranoid Android

[GIDEON MAGE]

And again, the construction of the individual books from the BIble are also arbitrary. Isaiah could have just as easily been the last book of the Old Testament. They're not all put in in chronological order.

Regards, PA

Actually, wrong. The jewish arrangement is roughly chronological. There are three divisions: Torah (the "five books of Moses"), Neviim (prophets) and Ketuvim (writings or scriptures), hence the abbreviation "Tanach". The Xians rearranged to put Malachi last so it looks like it blends into the n.t., when, actually, Chronicles is pretty much the last, chronologically speaking (no pun intended). Chapters and verses, sad to say, were added much later, and are much disputed by Jews and xians. Even books like "psalms" and "proverbs" can be slightly interpreted in a different manner depending on the later, arbitrary, divisions. Btw, branbran, most of the "messiah" portions of Isaiah are deliberatedly misinterpreted, IMHO, such as the famous "almah" prophecy.