Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Death Star III

moon landing

moon landing  

232 members have voted

  1. 1. do you believe that people landed on the moon.

    • yes
      158
    • no
      74


4,060 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

straydog

Waspie .... I'm pretty sure the geocities site was written by a grown up who did his or her homework .

Is that all you have at your disposal to try to discredit the conspiracy researchers ? .... More insults ?

I didn't call you a PAN .. It was one of my infamous copy pastes ! ... I call you nasa fans .. a much kinder and gentler term , don't you think ? ;)

Speaking of insults , as I was attempting to post more pictures from this site here , my computer was attacked by three incoming viruses and went down for a moment .... Then when I hit preview , the pictures I wanted to submit , came back up as a red x 's .... and the entire text from this geocities site disappeared too .... Weird huh ? :unsure2:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Trinitrotoluene

What you so conveniently forget to mention is that our and Russias shielding technology has evolved since 1969/72...You don't think they have thought of this in the building of the space stations?

What say ye?

If you did your research you will find that not even 2 and a half inches of concrete can stop gamma rays. Unless this radiation blocking technology is that of the USS Voyager then I'm pretty sure it penetrates space shuttles today. Also, the current space shuttle fleet is also made out of aluminium shells, just like the CM of Apollo.

Edited by Gavsto

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Waspie_Dwarf

Waspie .... I'm pretty sure the geocities site was written by a grown up who did his or her homework .

Then why the childish name calling and the lack of evidence to back up claims?

Is that all you have at your disposal to try to discredit the conspiracy researchers ? .... More insults ?

As I pointed out it is a site that you consider reputable that resorts to calling the vast majority of the worlds people (and around 70% of the people that have voted in this thread) nutters.

I didn't call you a PAN .. It was one of my infamous copy pastes ! ... I call you nasa fans .. a much kinder and gentler term , don't you think ? ;)

I realise that and I did not allege that you did. I was talking about the site you linked to, which uses this phrase to the point that it becomes as tedious and childish as astroNOT. You did, however, cut and paste a quote that includes the term P.A.N.

Speaking of insults , as I was attempting to post more pictures from this site here , my computer was attacked by three incoming viruses and went down for a moment .... Then when I hit preview , the pictures I wanted to submit , came back up as a red x 's .... and the entire text from this geocities site disappeared too .... Weird huh ? :unsure2:

It happens sadly. The internet is full of idiots that attack websites. NASA's has been attacked several times.

Edited by Waspie_Dwarf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
straydog

Yes the internet is full of idiots ... some even closer than you may think.

The web site museum link which frenat posted came up reading ..... COMPUTER UNDER ATTACK ... VIRUS = YES

Can you explain that one ? .... When you click onto the link , is that what you see ? ... I am very curious now .

Okay , I will agree that the picture of the lunar buggy is a museum shot , but there are many more pictures on the geocities site which can not be so easily dismissed or explained away ....

Maybe that's why the attack now on my computer ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
frenat

Yes the internet is full of idiots ... some even closer than you may think.

The web site museum link which frenat posted came up reading ..... COMPUTER UNDER ATTACK ... VIRUS = YES

Can you explain that one ? .... When you click onto the link , is that what you see ? ... I am very curious now .

Okay , I will agree that the picture of the lunar buggy is a museum shot , but there are many more pictures on the geocities site which can not be so easily dismissed or explained away ....

Maybe that's why the attack now on my computer ?

The first link I posted I have now edited. It was oddly truncated by this forum when posted because the original link had spaces in it and intstead gave the "virus" message. The "virus" appears to be only that websites version of the 404 error page. There is no virus there. The link now should work as I replaced it with a tinyurl link. The new link again is here

http://tinyurl.com/k6rdr

The red x's I think are a side effect of a geocities. They are a free site and have very low bandwidth restrictions. When a picture is linked externally from the site, the bandwidth goes up quickly. When they exceed their limit they get cut off. For example, going to the original geocities site right now gives this message.

Sorry, this GeoCities site is currently unavailable.

The GeoCities web site you were trying to view has temporarily exceeded its data transfer limit. Please try again later.

It will come back again and probably go out off and on. Geocities is like that.

Edited by frenat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Trinitrotoluene

That site is the worst Pro Apollo hoax site I've ever seen.

Take this for example. http://www.geocities.com/fakemoonpics/

Something tells me they didn't have the benefit of Adobe Photoshop back in 69', and I'm also sure that all the pictures were available for viewing at NASA

EDIT

In 1981, ex NASA employee, and long time skeptic of Apollo, Bill Kaysing, appeared on the Oprah Winfrey show, detailing how NASA had conned the American people into believing that they had landed men on the Moon. A national survey by the program makers showed a staggering 60% of Americans believed the Moon landings were faked. We have moved on a further 25 years, and it is now estimated the figure is 99%

99%, lol.

Edited by Gavsto

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MID

Okay MID the ball is in your court .... I just watched this nasa video clip again and don't see how it would be physically possible for anyone , whether they be in a lesser gravity field or not , to get upright from falling on their face in that bulky spacesuit , with no helping hand , and not even using their hands and arms to push themselves up again ....

He is clearly being pulled up from the rear by the same type of cable system which was used in the practice simulations .... So if you can explain the physics involved in how this amazing feat was accomplished , I am very interested ...

Actually there are other Apollo video clips where this strange anomaly is even more pronounced than in this one , but this is the one in question , so here it is again .... ( and I would appreciate it if MID would answer this one and not anyone else ... thanks )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JyJf3lA5TA

Fair enough:

This was a tough one to find. The video you present is some Italian documentary clip, which is actually a mirror image of the actual rover TV (how they did that is beyond me at the moment), with snide Italian comments about what they think they're seeing.

You guys make it tough, but I found it.

This is Apollo 16, EVA TV from station 8, EVA-2, where Charlie Duke falls down (again).

The dialogue, which is not presented (of course) in this rather grainy representation of something which was much clearer on actual TV, goes like this.

DUKE: "Oops, here we go again. Gimme help." (as he falls forward onto his hands and knees, and rather frustrated as well...).

He is now in a position where the majority of his 360 pounds of mass is ahead of his hips. His job is to get a vertical moment imparted so that he can create momentum to get that mass rising so he can get his center of gravity under it and right himself. He's only got 60 pounds of weight, but the mass is keeping him off balance forward (this is a difficult thing to comprehend for some, the difference between mass and weight, but it is indeed real).

John Young comes over, realizing his compatriot has over exerted himself again and has lost his tenuous lunar balance (because he's allowed his center of mass to get too far forward of his feet). He says, as he puts his hand out and approaches him:

"Here you go."

DUKE: "Just push, start pushin', on my head"

He wants John to push upward on his head with some force, so he can try and jerk himself up and back a bit.

YOUNG: "Gimme your hand."

See. I told you the astronaut on the ground was in fact using his hand. His Commander said, "Gimme your hand".

DUKE: "OK, here we go."

He then, as is clearly shown on the video, puts his right hand up, and Johns left hand grabs it (Its actually Charlie's left hand grabbing John's right...the mirror image thing, whatever that's about).

What happens is that Charlie pushes down on John's hand, while John lifts against Charlie's hand. Together, they exert enough force to propel Charlie, upward ( a little over 60 pounds or so cumulative force), and backward, as is also clearly visible, so Charlie can set his feet beneath his center of gravity and stabilize himself in an upright position. You just barely begin to see Charlie's sample bag fly off of his right (actually left) side through the force of the momentum generated. They quickly edit this film, of course, so you don't see the whole thing happen, nor do your hear what is said, which of course corroborates my statement that hands were in fact used.

But, this fact is obvious from actually watching the video..this one you link, or the actual true orientation.

I understand that when one is used to mass being equal to weight, as it is on Earth, that it's difficult to realize that mass is different from weight. However, it indeed is. Mass is a constant, weight is relative to gravity field.

This is the reason that these fellows trained for many hours (those cables which suspended 83% of their weight in lunar surface sims on Earth...), to get a feel for what was required to move in 1/6 g and get the feel for the mass-weight relationship . What it was like to jump up, what it was like to get off balance with their center of mass being rearward of their nominal CG, etc...

It really is the same physics as we employ here on Earth. However, we don't have 1/6 g on Earth, so we have to simulate it in training. Such simulations paid off.

As a simple illustration of this often mis-understood relationship between mass and weight, let's consider zero g for a moment. Supose you're a baseball player and you get hit with an 85 MPH pitch. The baseball only weights 5 ounces. Does it hurt? Of course. If it hits you in your head, the force of that 5 ounce baseball hitting your skull could cause serious damage (trust me, I know this...I've been capped with a baseball before...I played for 30 years, and pitchers loved to pitch me tight).

Now, let's take that 5 ounce baseball into orbit in zero g. What does it weight? Nothing at all. It has no weight. Suppose you, as a pitcher, can anchor yourself so you don't go flying off into space, and you throw it at me at 85 MPH.

It still has a mass of 5 ounces, so, even in zero g, you, the pitcher, will feel what a pitcher feels on Earth when he throws that ball, despite the fact that it weighs nothing.

And, when it hits me in the head, it's still going to hurt, despite the fact it weighs nothing, because the force of a 5 ounce ball moving at 85 MPH and striking me is the same as it would be on Earth.

It doesn't weight anything, but it's still mass x velocity.

I hope that makes it clearer that mass and weight are different, and the Apollo astronauts on the Moon were dealing with 60 pounds of weight, but 360 pounds of mass. There is a difference, a difference which they trained to understand and adapt to, and which is clearly, albeit unusually shown in this short video clip.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Waspie_Dwarf

Okay , I will agree that the picture of the lunar buggy is a museum shot , but there are many more pictures on the geocities site which can not be so easily dismissed or explained away ....?

Ok, you concede that this is a false claim, I respect that honesty.

Do you not think that gives the the geocities site a credibility problem? If even you as a believer are conceding that it makes false claims do you not think that it destroys the credibility of that site totally?

If a witness at a trial is shown to be lying would you trust the rest of their evidence or would you dismiss it as untrust worthy? Does the same principle not apply here?

Please note:

  1. I am making this lack of credibility claim against the geocities site only and not against hoax sites in general.
  2. That does not mean that I believe that other pro-hoax sites ARE credible (before S3th decides that, I like Gavsto, am on the pro-hoax side :no: ).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
straydog

frenat ... Thanks for the explanation about the geocites site going down but I still don't understand why the link you posted read what it did ... Since my computer has been under virus attacks several times from this site , I thought it better to log off for awhile to be on the safe side .... I know that you have nothing to do with these attacks though , so please don't think that's what I was implying .... My PC lost it's internet connection for about 15 minutes tonight , which is better than some of the attacks , where I have been knocked offline for a couple of hours until I can correct the problem .

Waspie .... I agree with you that it is very disappointing to find outright incorrect information on any site , regardless of the content of the web site .... So in that context , yes , I doubt I would trust this particular site again until I have verified the information as being correct myself .... I have found incorrect information on other moon hoax sites also , but that in no way discredits all of the information on those sites ... We all are human and we all make mistakes ... but before I post any other pictures again I will make sure that they are really what they are claimed to be .

MID ... I enjoyed your explanation immensely ! ... You really did your homework on this one ( I was wondering where you had disappeared to ) ... and I even managed to follow what you were saying .... I still find the clip highly suspicious though , even with your amazing explanation ... You did however say one thing which made sense to me ... the word editing .... If it were indeed improperly edited then that may explain the strangeness of the astronaut's movements ... So thanks for taking the time to explain it .

But I still believe that the moon missions were a hoax and that the film and photos are studio fakes .

Edited by straydog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
frenat

frenat ... Thanks for the explanation about the geocites site going down but I still don't understand why the link you posted read what it did ... Since my computer has been under virus attacks several times from this site , I thought it better to log off for awhile to be on the safe side .... I know that you have nothing to do with these attacks though , so please don't think that's what I was implying .... My PC lost it's internet connection for about 15 minutes tonight , which is better than some of the attacks , where I have been knocked offline for a couple of hours until I can correct the problem .

The original link has spaces in it. The forum software cut the link off at the first space making it shorter. This caused the link to not be valid and instead display a Error 404, page not found message. The problem is that a site owner can choose to have his site display his own version of that error message. That site owner chose to have the virus message show up instead of a page not found. It is a stupid joke and you are probably not the first one to be worried about it. It gave me the same message when I followed the shortened wrong link as well. Rest assured there is no virus there. You get the same message with any bad link on that domain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
frenat

frenat ... Thanks for the explanation about the geocites site going down but I still don't understand why the link you posted read what it did ... Since my computer has been under virus attacks several times from this site , I thought it better to log off for awhile to be on the safe side .... I know that you have nothing to do with these attacks though , so please don't think that's what I was implying .... My PC lost it's internet connection for about 15 minutes tonight , which is better than some of the attacks , where I have been knocked offline for a couple of hours until I can correct the problem .

Are you sure the virus attacks are related to this site? I have not had any problems with virii from this site. I would hate to think that any members here are responsible. I am not sure that it would be possible for one member to affect another with this board's software that way but I must admit that I don't know enough about the software to say for sure.

Do you have an antivirus program? There are a few good free ones out there if not. As much as we may not agree, I wouldn't want to see you lose any data due to a virus or somebody else's stupidity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ivytheplant

That site is the worst Pro Apollo hoax site I've ever seen.

I'll have to agree with that. The only way it could be worse is if there were background midis and it animated my cursor.

Something tells me they didn't have the benefit of Adobe Photoshop back in 69', and I'm also sure that all the pictures were available for viewing at NASA

Oh come on. They could have gone back in time with a Mac and copy of Photoshop. With that kind of power, they could have faked Roswell and Oswald killing Kennedy too.

99%, lol.

My SO and I second that lol. In fact, I forwarded it to several others and they returned the lols.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RamboIII

The actual time spent in the belts is still largely debatable and not yet completely determined. Especially since I believe I saw something stating the fact that these belts shrink and grow in size. Let's try not to make calculations that cannot be substantiated. Otherwise your bound to take home the Belt of Assumption along with the HK camp MVP award!

Just a good natured question... what is so twisted inside your brain that has made you determine to persuade people to think the moon landings are a hoax? If you are an American, you have disgraced me, if not then worry about your own countries consipracies... B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Trinitrotoluene

Rambo,

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and that of free speech. I have no doubt in my mind that Straydog believes what he's saying, and is not trying to purposely deceive people into believing that they were faked - because he actually believes they were. All though I know you support the Pro Apollo side, comments like the above really aren't helping the situation in defusing any tension between the two sides.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PuffyAmiYumi

HERES A QUESTION FOR YA!! if the moon is in space (no wind) why does the fladg blow in the wind?!!? huh!? it was filmed in a studio somewhere....and some was filmed by Area 51 (the RESTRICTED area, so no-one would see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Trinitrotoluene

HERES A QUESTION FOR YA!! if the moon is in space (no wind) why does the fladg blow in the wind?!!? huh!? it was filmed in a studio somewhere....and some was filmed by Area 51 (the RESTRICTED area, so no-one would see.

He was moving the flag pole which in turn was moving the flag.

Oh and just so you know there is wind in space, look up Solar Wind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
straydog

Rambo III ..... You have posted insulting personal comments several times now even after the site administrator has asked you not to ...

Yesterday you called conspiracy theorists wackos and today you are calling them a disgrace to America ..... In defence of myself and my beliefs I have to say that I am neither .... In fact one of the main reasons I am so adamant in exposing nasa's fiction about Apollo, is because I love my country , not hate it .... I am proud to be an American and thankful for all of the many freedoms which I enjoy ... one of them being freedom of speech ... That is still our right under the constitution of the United States of America ...

I understand why you feel the way you do though , especially if you truly believe that nasa went to the moon .... I happen to believe otherwise and my attempts to get this information out the public is not done to hurt my country but to hopefully help it in the future ....

One thing you need to remember is that the government is NOT the country ... especially when that government is no longer for the people and by the people ... If we are forced to live under government deception and corruption , then this once great nation will eventually fall ...

I want the truth to come out about Apollo one way or the other , which will finally put a end to the debate of whether nasa landed men on the moon or not ....

I have read information on both sides of this and after doing so there is no doubt in my mind that not only are the Apollo photos studio fakes but that the technology which existed 37 years ago could in no way allow men to travel through the Van Allen belts , into deep space and then land humans on the surface of the moon .. launch them again to recomnnect with another space vehicle in lunar orbit and then return them to Earth safely , SIX times without one major malfunction .... The odds of that being a technical reality are too enormous for words ....

I realize that I am in no way qualified to discuss science or physics or the mathematics involved in space flight .... but I am not so uninformed that I can't comprehend the technology involved in what nasa claimed they did during the Apollo missions , nor the technical impossibility of those claims .

I believe as strongly as you do about this .. We just happen to believe differently .... and until someone can prove to me with out a doubt that nasa landed men on the moon in 1969 through 1972, then I will continue to believe otherwise ... and would appreciate it if you and others , would not insult me or my intelligence for those beliefs .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lilly

Well, it's like my Dad used to say, "Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts."

People are naturally free to believe what they wish, regardless. Noone should be belittled for their beliefs based on faith. However, if one chooses to site *facts* (that are anything but factual) in support of their beliefs...this is no longer an opinion, it's ignorance of the facts. This seems to be the area in which the problem we have here manifests itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phenomenon

Lilly, words of wisdom if ever I heard them. :tu:

From what I understand with the flag, was the pole too short for the flag, hence the gathered look?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Trinitrotoluene

It isn't the photos that have gone missing, it's the feed from the original landing, which is clearer than what was transmitted over TV etc. It's exactly the same video we have all seen before just at a better clarity, and has nothing to do with images at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phenomenon
Check this out, What happend with Apollo's original photos!

My how these misquotes are flying around in this thread. :yes:

Rambo III ..... You have posted insulting personal comments several times now even after the site administrator has asked you not to ...

People in glass houses. ;)

Edited by phenomenon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RamboIII

Rambo III ..... You have posted insulting personal comments several times now even after the site administrator has asked you not to ...

Yesterday you called conspiracy theorists wackos and today you are calling them a disgrace to America ..... In defence of myself and my beliefs I have to say that I am neither .... In fact one of the main reasons I am so adamant in exposing nasa's fiction about Apollo, is because I love my country , not hate it .... I am proud to be an American and thankful for all of the many freedoms which I enjoy ... one of them being freedom of speech ... That is still our right under the constitution of the United States of America ...

I understand why you feel the way you do though , especially if you truly believe that nasa went to the moon .... I happen to believe otherwise and my attempts to get this information out the public is not done to hurt my country but to hopefully help it in the future ....

One thing you need to remember is that the government is NOT the country ... especially when that government is no longer for the people and by the people ... If we are forced to live under government deception and corruption , then this once great nation will eventually fall ...

I want the truth to come out about Apollo one way or the other , which will finally put a end to the debate of whether nasa landed men on the moon or not ....

I have read information on both sides of this and after doing so there is no doubt in my mind that not only are the Apollo photos studio fakes but that the technology which existed 37 years ago could in no way allow men to travel through the Van Allen belts , into deep space and then land humans on the surface of the moon .. launch them again to recomnnect with another space vehicle in lunar orbit and then return them to Earth safely , SIX times without one major malfunction .... The odds of that being a technical reality are too enormous for words ....

I realize that I am in no way qualified to discuss science or physics or the mathematics involved in space flight .... but I am not so uninformed that I can't comprehend the technology involved in what nasa claimed they did during the Apollo missions , nor the technical impossibility of those claims .

I believe as strongly as you do about this .. We just happen to believe differently .... and until someone can prove to me with out a doubt that nasa landed men on the moon in 1969 through 1972, then I will continue to believe otherwise ... and would appreciate it if you and others , would not insult me or my intelligence for those beliefs .

I do not think you get the picture. WE LANDED ON THE MOON. If you are so intent on believing we didn't then YOU have to prove US wrong....we do not ave to do anything because there are pictures and videos galore and the words of highly credible people on our side. What do you mean prove to you without a doubt that NASA landed men on the moon? How are we supposed to do that when you try so hard to find things that are seemingly flawed in pictures? Pro Landing people just have to rebuke your ridiculous hoax theories, and so far we have done a damn good job. On second notice, its really kind of pitiful that you quote yourself on your signature thinking you are some big name in science... why don't you quote a real man like Carl Sagan, "Extraordinary claims recquire extraordinary evidence." Your claims are extraordinary, your evidence is below par. Just something to think about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lance5050

By now I would think that the majority of rational people agree that Apollo 11 never landed on the moon. As for later missions - very possibly - but who knows?

Realistically, if we had landed, certainly there would have been more creative things to do there than bring back some rocks. The most obvious thing being setting off some sort of flare or display or something that would have been visible back on earth (through the average telecope). College kids around the world would have flocked to their astronomy departments to get a look at the "signal from the moon". Instead it was a re-recorded video mock-up that most bought into at the time because they didn't know any better.

There wasn't a single accident in descending to the moon's surface - yet there have been many accidents in much less challenging missions/preparations. It just doesn't pass the "common sense" test that A-11 landed.

That's not to take anything away from our astronauts - it takes extreme bravery just to go into space.

Edited by Lance5050

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Startraveler
Realistically, if we had landed, certainly there would have been more creative things to do there than bring back some rocks. The most obvious thing being setting off some sort of flare or display or something that would have been visible back on earth (through the average telecope). College kids around the world would have flocked to their astronomy departments to get a look at the "signal from the moon".

They did do that. Except it was a little more sophisticated than that. It was called the Laser Ranging Retroreflector Experiment. Look it up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.