Desty Posted June 19, 2006 #26 Share Posted June 19, 2006 I don’t need to believe in god like you. You see, I try to understand the world around me. I see how it works. I don’t just say “god made it”. And why would I love something that’s not there? simple as this Odin If god didnt make it who did? nobody made it, it just exists? Well! if we apply logic, Everything has a beginning and an end, except for god because he merely exists (if you believe in god) Therefore our world CANT just EXIST. Not with logic applied, If our world just exists it would be like saying this world is god because it just IS. And in concluding that god merely EXISTS and has no END or BEGINNING we must become PART of god that is our immortality, Not just become part but RETURN from whence we came. All that came from logic derrived from THIS WORLD. and if I can see it ANYONE can see it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exeller Posted June 19, 2006 Author #27 Share Posted June 19, 2006 OK then, why does god ''want'' anything? Here is one answer. God doesnt need anything hes god. He cant be defined (or put into a box like so many religions try to do) and I dont even believe our human minds can conceive 1% of him I'm not going to lie, I don't have an answer for you. But put yourself in place of God..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desty Posted June 19, 2006 #28 Share Posted June 19, 2006 OK then, why does god ''want'' anything? According to the mythology, god is omniscient, omnipotent, knows all, sees all, tells little. Why does your god "want" or "need" anything? Does your god require an endless multitude singing his praises ad infintum, for eternity? 1st off he said god didnt need anything, and your bringing need back up. Secondly God tells us much, we just Ignore much. re·quire ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-kwr) tr.v. re·quired, re·quir·ing, re·quires To have as a requisite; need: 3rd god does not NEED, as you seem to have brought it back up again. Why would god not want his creations to acknowledge his existence & Thank him for allowing them to exist? Just imagine parents to children scenario; would you not want your children to love you? you provide them with clothes a home food, love, care, LIFE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fahrenheit Posted June 19, 2006 #29 Share Posted June 19, 2006 That's assuming the world had no beginning or end. The world will eventually be obliterated, and there has to be a beginning somewhere, even if it takes a billion scientists to find out where, when, and what it was (I'm speaking of the Universe now, because there are several theories as to how the earth formed. ) Exe11er, this topic is ridiculous. Don't try to force people into your beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodie.Lynne Posted June 19, 2006 #30 Share Posted June 19, 2006 you are right, but I do not require my children to continually shower me with praise, nor do I threaten to expel them from my world if they don't. Again, I ask WHY DOES GOD REQUIRE/NEED/WANT anything from a race of beings so far beneath itself? If your god knows all, then it knows which of its creations are able to stand on their own two feet, and which ones need to be coddled and have their hand held as well, no? Why then, would your god become angry at the way its creations behave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exeller Posted June 19, 2006 Author #31 Share Posted June 19, 2006 That's assuming the world had no beginning or end. The world will eventually be obliterated, and there has to be a beginning somewhere, even if it takes a billion scientists to find out where, when, and what it was (I'm speaking of the Universe now, because there are several theories as to how the earth formed. ) Exe11er, this topic is ridiculous. Don't try to force people into your beliefs. Why, are you mad that I'm right? Please explain how I am "forcing" everyone to believe in God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desty Posted June 19, 2006 #32 Share Posted June 19, 2006 That's assuming the world had no beginning or end. The world will eventually be obliterated, and there has to be a beginning somewhere, even if it takes a billion scientists to find out where, when, and what it was (I'm speaking of the Universe now, because there are several theories as to how the earth formed. ) Exe11er, this topic is ridiculous. Don't try to force people into your beliefs. RIGHT! now lets use logice once more. Nothing can exist from nothing Except for God by definition. SO, if the universe DOES have a beginning it has a creator, a catalyst of some form(and by common deductive reasoning the only thing that can exist without anything is god, because he has no needs.) Again we are stuck with the conclusion that there is a god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fahrenheit Posted June 19, 2006 #33 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Isn't it true that "All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come"? So this means that every sin will be forgiven, but disbelieving, I don't think that's going to be forgiven. So what I'm wondering is, aren't you better off believing in God, rather than getting reincarnated or something like that? By trying to scare people into thinking that they will go to hell if they don't agree with you? I'm not angry, and if I were, it wouldn't be because you are right, because you're not, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodie.Lynne Posted June 19, 2006 #34 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Your theory is fine and correct Desty except for the assumption that god exists. You are taking as "fact" that your version of god is, in fact, a reality. For many, the jury is still out. I would really like to know though, why it is so important to you and exceller that we all believe in your 'truth'. And please, don't tell us that its because you are concerned for our immortal soul. What is the real reason you seem so desperate to have us all on the same path? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desty Posted June 19, 2006 #35 Share Posted June 19, 2006 you are right, but I do not require my children to continually shower me with praise, nor do I threaten to expel them from my world if they don't. Again, I ask WHY DOES GOD REQUIRE/NEED/WANT anything from a race of beings so far beneath itself? If your god knows all, then it knows which of its creations are able to stand on their own two feet, and which ones need to be coddled and have their hand held as well, no? Why then, would your god become angry at the way its creations behave? Love, Mercy, Grace, Holiness, Faithfulness, Omniscience, Omnipresence, Immutability, Justice, Jealousy, Wrath and Hate(of evil) http://www.biblelife.org/attributes.htm Gods attributes, God already knows what we are going to do its no surprise to him, Why did god ask eve Genesis 3:13 What is it that thou hast done? After eve eats of the fruit. Knowing they would do it. After all my years I have come up with the conclusion that. Imagine this. there is a high mountain and our goal is the top, to reach god. If we had it handed to us, and were automatically at the top the view would not be as beautiful because we did not earn it****. God has given us a chance to climb the mountain and earn for ourselves the Glory. ****Like the spoiled child who has everything given to him hes a brat ignorant greedy selfish. But the parents who disciplin their kids Those are the truly good parents, they raise a good child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodie.Lynne Posted June 19, 2006 #36 Share Posted June 19, 2006 to continue with your "father/child" analogy: You raise your child, give him/her the tools and skills you think they need, and then send them out into the world. If they stumble, you are near to lend a hand. But, eventually, if you have done your job correctly, then they begin to follow their own path, with its choices and obstacles, and you stand and watch them make their OWN way. The child grows to become an adult, and returns as an equal. My thoughts, and coincidently, what I believe I will find on the other side: A god joyously awaiting my return to share what I have learned while away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exeller Posted June 19, 2006 Author #37 Share Posted June 19, 2006 you are right, but I do not require my children to continually shower me with praise, nor do I threaten to expel them from my world if they don't. Again, I ask WHY DOES GOD REQUIRE/NEED/WANT anything from a race of beings so far beneath itself? If your god knows all, then it knows which of its creations are able to stand on their own two feet, and which ones need to be coddled and have their hand held as well, no? Why then, would your god become angry at the way its creations behave? A computer is human creation. We do not need it to exist. Yet we created it it to serve us. It keeps us busy, we enjoy it. If God has control his creation, then he should have the power to create anything he want to. I don't know, because it is flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desty Posted June 19, 2006 #38 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Your theory is fine and correct Desty except for the assumption that god exists. You are taking as "fact" that your version of god is, in fact, a reality. For many, the jury is still out. I would really like to know though, why it is so important to you and exceller that we all believe in your 'truth'. And please, don't tell us that its because you are concerned for our immortal soul. What is the real reason you seem so desperate to have us all on the same path? Its not infact Im not sure If I believe we are eternally damned to hell. I believe we are reincarnated and (hopefully) gradually purified throughout our lives. I believe we are all part of God. I believe the sooner we realize the 'truth' the sooner we can go back to where we all came from, God. I love people; dont get me wrong some people i dislike very much. I use to be very hateful. I guess if our souls stay ignorant for to long and the human race is wiped out we might miss the bus. But I believe between lives our souls visit hell for whatever purging they need then we have a realization life, and after that a final Christ like life, where we have exited Karma giving out only good 'vibes' then our actions made manifest. and Only with the assumption that god exists do all the peices fall together, without it, theres a big... BIG blank spot. standing right before the existences of, well, everything we perceive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fahrenheit Posted June 19, 2006 #39 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Imagine this. there is a high mountain and our goal is the top, to reach god. If we had it handed to us, and were automatically at the top the view would not be as beautiful because we did not earn it****. God has given us a chance to climb the mountain and earn for ourselves the Glory. You know, you're entitled to that way of thinking, but the way I see it when people say things like that, they're twisting reality to fit as an answer to "If god exists, then why..." The way if you ask someone: "If there's a god, then why is there so much suffering in the world?" And they say, "That's god's will" or "god works in mysterious ways", which to me is just a fancy way of saying "I don't know" Whatever works for you, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exeller Posted June 19, 2006 Author #40 Share Posted June 19, 2006 By trying to scare people into thinking that they will go to hell if they don't agree with you? I'm not angry, and if I were, it wouldn't be because you are right, because you're not, in my opinion. Please state the exact post in which I said that souls who don't believe in God go to hell. Please show me a post where I said I even believe in hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exeller Posted June 19, 2006 Author #41 Share Posted June 19, 2006 (edited) to continue with your "father/child" analogy: You raise your child, give him/her the tools and skills you think they need, and then send them out into the world. If they stumble, you are near to lend a hand. But, eventually, if you have done your job correctly, then they begin to follow their own path, with its choices and obstacles, and you stand and watch them make their OWN way. The child grows to become an adult, and returns as an equal. My thoughts, and coincidently, what I believe I will find on the other side: A god joyously awaiting my return to share what I have learned while away. Yeah, but you're comparing something that was created by God to God. The soul is corrupted by earhtly desires, unlike God which will always remain pure. Edited June 19, 2006 by exe11er Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fahrenheit Posted June 19, 2006 #42 Share Posted June 19, 2006 but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come Well, if a person is dead and not forgiven of their sins, in the Christian religion that means they go to hell. The overall theme of the first post implies that a person who believes in god is better off than a person who doesn't, an elitist attitude. Sorry, but this thread as well-intentioned as you would have people believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desty Posted June 19, 2006 #43 Share Posted June 19, 2006 You know, you're entitled to that way of thinking, but the way I see it when people say things like that, they're twisting reality to fit as an answer to "If god exists, then why..." The way if you ask someone: "If there's a god, then why is there so much suffering in the world?" And they say, "That's god's will" or "god works in mysterious ways", which to me is just a fancy way of saying "I don't know" Whatever works for you, though. Yes we live in bondage, its hard it hurts, The climb is not easy, infact it may be the hardest thing weve ever done. without pain there is no joy. In the abscense of that which is not, that which is, is not. It is possible our lives here on earth is merely god experiencing what he is (and is not.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exeller Posted June 19, 2006 Author #44 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Then it's too bad I don't believe in hell huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodie.Lynne Posted June 19, 2006 #45 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Yeah, but you're comparing something that was created by God to God. The soul is corrupted by earhtly desires, unlike God which will always remain pure. Actually, I was speaking in parables, as was Desty. And, you never responded as to why you are so desperate to have us all believe as you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desty Posted June 19, 2006 #46 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Well, if a person is dead and not forgiven of their sins, in the Christian religion that means they go to hell. The overall theme of the first post implies that a person who believes in god is better off than a person who doesn't, an elitist attitude. Sorry, but this thread as well-intentioned as you would have people believe. He didnt say you would go to hell, saying its unforgiven does not mean you will go to hell, What do you have a guilty conscience? And nowhere in his first post is the word christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exeller Posted June 19, 2006 Author #47 Share Posted June 19, 2006 And, you never responded as to why you are so desperate to have us all believe as you do. Well, like you said, it's for your own good. Also, because people act it's wrong to believe in God. That you need to put evidence before faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodie.Lynne Posted June 19, 2006 #48 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Like I always say: If your faith in your religion brings you comfort, then it is right for YOU. It may not necessarily be right for ME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desty Posted June 19, 2006 #49 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Like I always say: If your faith in your religion brings you comfort, then it is right for YOU. It may not necessarily be right for ME. Would It KILL You To Believe In God ? You guys are rolling off topic, Its not about religion, its about god, lets not go down that ugly road of flawed religions. Ive already proved through logic we can conclude god exists. Yes with Logic. A system of reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exeller Posted June 19, 2006 Author #50 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Like I always say: If your faith in your religion brings you comfort, then it is right for YOU. It may not necessarily be right for ME. Correct, but there can only be one truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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