Would It KILL You To Believe In God ?

[crawler2000]

u reward in prayer is a state of mind.you only get wat u belive u get similar to people getting cured by praying and people getting cured by taking a plucebo.

[arkland]

This is a question I've had for a long time. Really, would it kill you to believe in God? Isn't it better to spend life believing in God rather than disbelieving? Isn't it true that "All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come"? So this means that every sin will be forgiven, but disbelieving, I don't think that's going to be forgiven. So what I'm wondering is, aren't you better off believing in God, rather than getting reincarnated or something like that?

would it kill u to think for your self psshhhhhh noobs

Edited August 16, 2006 by area 51

[IamsSon]

So then we are back to the premis of All or Nothing:

Worship, obey and kneel and get rewarded by worshipping obeying and kneeling for eternity.

Don't and lose forever.

JM, I don't think ragus ever said it wasn't an all or nothing thing; from a Christian pespective it is an all or nothing thing. That's one of the main reasons why non-Christians seem to dislike Christianity because by it's nature it is intolerant.

The only thing I disagree with in your post is the way you summarize it. Because I see it as:

accept Jesus died in my place

receive an eternal life of happiness to boot

be thankful and worshipful as any condemned man would be

try to stop others from dying

enjoy eternity worshipping and partying

OR

refuse to let anyone else die for my sins

spend eternity in hell separated from God because it's what I deserve

I know it sounds mean, vindictive, cold, etc., but that is the belief basically. God does not want anyone to do this, but He will let you do it.

[Jodie.Lynne]

Which is why I don't follow the christian faith.

Spend eternity groveling or eternity suffering.

Let me ask you:

Do you truly believe that your god created the race of men to kneel at his feet for eternity? And if so, why?

[IamsSon]

Which is why I don't follow the christian faith.

Spend eternity groveling or eternity suffering.

Let me ask you:

Do you truly believe that your god created the race of men to kneel at his feet for eternity? And if so, why?

No, I do not believe He created man to kneel at his feet for eternity. I believe He created man because He wants companions who will have a clear understanding of His love for them, and of how terrible disunity can be.

I do not grovel in front of God when I worship Him, I rejoice in His presence and at the same time I am humbled. I have never felt God opressing me in any way, quite the opposite. He has held me up and encouraged, provided, and protected me. At the worst moments in my life, He has been there. At the most joyful moments in my life He has been there.

I don't know where this "groveling" idea comes form JM. Submission is NOT the same thing as grovelling, worship is NOT the same thing as gorvelling.

If someone saved your life would you not be grateful? Would that be grovelling? Does your wife or children grovel at your feet? Or do they love you and appreciate the things you do for them?

[Jodie.Lynne]

gratitude is fine Iams, but I don't DEMAND it from anyone.

I don't tell my wife

"If you don't thank me for keeping a roof over your head, your out!"

I don't tell my daughter

"Appreciate me for the things you have, or I'll throw you out!"

The differnece between you and I Iams, is that you see humans as flawed, sinful beasts which, if not for god, would tear each other limb from limb and gnaw on each others bones.

I see humans for what they are: a young, sentient species, still in its infancy, learning how to walk and talk.

Although, I agree that god wants us for companions. But as equals, not master and slave. Or parent and child. Or teacher and pupil. Or any other upper/lower pairing you can think of.

[AtlantisRises]

would it kill u to think for your self psshhhhhh noobs

What does the fact he is a noob have to do with it, I have occasionally found this attitude before on this and other forums from older residents and it has me confused.

Just because someone is new to the site means very little as to the wieght of their opinion, To think otherwise is the height of arrogance.

on a weekly basis i find new people on the forums that allow a fresh insight, for instance Donfie is quite new to the site yet he has initiated several well thought out threads and i feel enriched UM for his prescence.

I too am a fairly recent addition to the Unexplained-Mysteries forum and yet i would like to think that at least some of my observations are appreciated

[IamsSon]

gratitude is fine Iams, but I don't DEMAND it from anyone.

I don't tell my wife

"If you don't thank me for keeping a roof over your head, your out!"

I don't tell my daughter

"Appreciate me for the things you have, or I'll throw you out!"

The differnece between you and I Iams, is that you see humans as flawed, sinful beasts which, if not for god, would tear each other limb from limb and gnaw on each others bones.

I see humans for what they are: a young, sentient species, still in its infancy, learning how to walk and talk.

Although, I agree that god wants us for companions. But as equals, not master and slave. Or parent and child. Or teacher and pupil. Or any other upper/lower pairing you can think of.

My son will someday be my equal. Currently, he still lacks the maturity necessary to be able to stand as my equal. That doesn't make him inferior to me, but it does make him unprepared. I believe that man lacks much before he can consider himself God's equal, and God would be a bad "parent" if He allowed us to stand as His equals. I don't know if we will ever be His equals, but the Bible does say we will rule with Him.

I don't require my wife to thank me for "keeping a roof over her head," but she does feel thankful toward me for it. And although I don't require it, I would be upset if she expressed thanklesness, wouldn't you?

I don't tell my kids "appreciate me for the things I have provided for you," but they do feel grateful (sometimes,... at some point...) and they do appreciate it. And again I would sure be at least mystified if they expressed ungratefulness, wouldn't you?

I know you are exaggerating for effect, but my view of mankind is not that they are senseless savages, but that they are completely and wilfully lost. They see the north star in front of them, the compass points in that direction, the map lines up with the terrain and yet they walk toward the setting sun saying, "No, this is north!" (If we called it womankind, this analogy would not work because they would stop and ask for directions )

[Cadetak]

It would be different if God acted like our parent and not our king...there a huge difference.

[A+Certified]

Which is why I don't follow the christian faith.

Spend eternity groveling or eternity suffering.

i dont follow it becuase its not plausible, lol

I would be upset if she expressed thanklesness, wouldn't you?

i would be upset if she expressed thanklessness, but NOT upset if she didnt express thankfulness, becuase not expressing thankfulness could mean she simply hasnt really thought about it, as opposed to expressing thanklessness.

And again I would sure be at least mystified if they expressed ungratefulness, wouldn't you?

no. becuase i know the way kids think. they focus on the present event. if you take away TV for a night, they dont focus on the fact that you have provided for them for X years, they only focus on the fact that they cant watch MTV tonight, lol. its all psychological

but my view of mankind is not that they are senseless savages, but that they are completely and wilfully lost

i think that we are savages turned civilized, but its VERY apparent that are savage side is still with us. [see- "lord of the flies"]

[drakonwick]

The point is most Christians, nope, all Christians are sort of stupid. They do not know what the Council of Nicea was and how a bunch of men, under Constantine guidance, voted on the nature of Jesus. The whole idea of Dispensationalism is an invention from the 1840s. If all the Christians became Pagan, and all the Muslims became Sufis, the world would be a more pleasant place.

A bunch of arrogant Edit presuming that they know what the Lord almighty is going to do. This has been going on since time began and the Edit:Unecessary still will not accept the fact that they are not the one's who know when "the end" will come any more than "sicilian donkeys"

Think About that!

Edit: Swearing.

Edited August 16, 2006 by Lottie

[Cadetak]

I read somewhere that the Council of Nicea was just a meeting to detemin what what scriptures where fake. For example some books where left out of the bible because they were written many years after the events they discribe.

I'm not exactly sure on the whole conspiracy of the Council of Nicea thing yet...i could go either way(read my sig).

Was it a meeting do fuse pagan and christian beliefs? Or a meeting to seperate fact from fiction and to clear a few inconcistencies in the christian mythologies?

Either way...the mytholgy of a religion shouldn't matter, the teachings and principals should be held to a higher standard.

[IamsSon]

The point is most Christians, nope, all Christians are sort of stupid. They do not know what the Council of Nicea was and how a bunch of men, under Constantine guidance, voted on the nature of Jesus. The whole idea of Dispensationalism is an invention from the 1840s. If all the Christians became Pagan, and all the Muslims became Sufis, the world would be a more pleasant place.

A bunch of arrogant Edit presuming that they know what the Lord almighty is going to do. This has been going on since time began and the Edit still will not accept the fact that they are not the one's who know when "the end" will come any more than "sicilian donkeys"

Think About that!

Moro, I am a Christian, and I really do not appreciate being refered to as stupid or an idiot. You may actually want to read some history instead of the fiction in the Da Vinci Code http://www.thetruthaboutdavinci.com/ .

You are entitled to your opinions, but according to the rules of this forum, you are expected to be respectful of the beliefs of others. You could have expressed your beliefs without resorting to calling Christians Edit: No need to reiterate the name calling.

Edited August 16, 2006 by Lottie

[Guest Lottie]

I would like to point out that swearing and being insulting to other users is not acceptable. Please take a moment to read the RULES of this forum.

If there is a problem with someone insulting you PM a Mod or use the report button rather than retaliating and swearing back.

[Imaginary Friend]

Wow! What a warning. And in a thread topic of this nature as well. How sad.

Would it kill you to believe in god?!

Would it please the god of one's faith to read this thread and it's tenor of insults and curses, in defense of that being of the spirit, that we are led to believe lives in our hearts and minds and inspires the best in all of us!? And that is contrary to that spirit we're told inspires the worst!?

And what does one accomplish by arguing their god ideal to others!? Does one imagine because "I" believe, it is something to defend to others that do not? Or that believe differently in themselves. Isn't that what faith is? Personal!? Is it a campaign to convert others to the "good news" (the translation of the word; "Gospel"), in such a way!? If it's good news then why not let others to their own as they translate the import of the words for themselves, and decide how it applies to their life!? And if they decide it does not apply at all, what does one imagine shall be accomplished levying hateful words toward another in the name of the prince of peace and his father god of love!? I wonder how many believers realize taking the faith into themselves makes them a representative of the spirit of the faith and it's message?! I wonder , as one contradicts themselves saying they are open to others beliefs, and all the while impugn the integrity of those beliefs in the process, can understand they are the example of that christian they claim all people should accept on faith!?

What would jesus do.

I think he'd weep by the time he arrived at reading to page 83 of this thread.

[Bella-Angelique]

The point is most Christians, nope, all Christians are sort of stupid. They do not know what the Council of Nicea was and how a bunch of men, under Constantine guidance, voted on the nature of Jesus. The whole idea of Dispensationalism is an invention from the 1840s. If all the Christians became Pagan, and all the Muslims became Sufis, the world would be a more pleasant place.

A bunch of arrogant Edit presuming that they know what the Lord almighty is going to do. This has been going on since time began and the Edit:Unecessary still will not accept the fact that they are not the one's who know when "the end" will come any more than "sicilian donkeys"

Think About that!

Edit: Swearing.

I had an Algerian Sufi friend for a number of years. He was the one who told me that the Arians still existed in the Middle East.

Just as in Islam, the heart of Christianity lie in the ancient Middle East, not in Europe. HItler was correct about that much.

Once Sufism was the strictest of all Islamic paths, and though a few still practice that way, most have evolved as the centuries evolved in their quest to attain higher levels of spirituality.

You brought up the council that was held in Nicea. The main purpose of the council was to wipe out the more tolerant and kinder version of Christianity called Arianism by those who hated it. One of the things they despised most about it was its attitude of equality for females with males. After they had won their victory with the emperor, three thousand Arian Christians were slaughtered in the streets of Alexandria, Egypt, the center of learning and former home of Yeshua ben Yoseph.

Populations in ancient times were much lower than today. This number was extremely vast for them, comparable to a holocaust in the twentiest century.

These people were the roots of Christianity, the begininning that attracted so many desperate and unhappy women towards having a better life, not paganism.

[GIDEON MAGE]

These people were the roots of Christianity, the begininning that attracted so many desperate and unhappy women towards having a better life, not paganism.

Indeed, xianity would not have been so horrible a thing without Paul and his little reworkings of it.

[Imaginary Friend]

And yet, with his re-workings of it he became the rock. That foundation of cathedrals world wide and as such lives eternally in that guise, as creator of the institution wherein god is contained.

So then, when one worships as a catholic, do they worship god or the Pauline ideal of god!? What does any believer within an institution revere first, when the guidelines are written down and carried out through liturgy!? And what, in a thread like this, is one defending when they define what they hold in faith of a higher power, by citing the scripture that first says so!?

[IamsSon]

Wow! What a warning. And in a thread topic of this nature as well. How sad.

Would it kill you to believe in god?!

Would it please the god of one's faith to read this thread and it's tenor of insults and curses, in defense of that being of the spirit, that we are led to believe lives in our hearts and minds and inspires the best in all of us!? And that is contrary to that spirit we're told inspires the worst!?

And what does one accomplish by arguing their god ideal to others!? Does one imagine because "I" believe, it is something to defend to others that do not? Or that believe differently in themselves. Isn't that what faith is? Personal!? Is it a campaign to convert others to the "good news" (the translation of the word; "Gospel"), in such a way!? If it's good news then why not let others to their own as they translate the import of the words for themselves, and decide how it applies to their life!? And if they decide it does not apply at all, what does one imagine shall be accomplished levying hateful words toward another in the name of the prince of peace and his father god of love!? I wonder how many believers realize taking the faith into themselves makes them a representative of the spirit of the faith and it's message?! I wonder , as one contradicts themselves saying they are open to others beliefs, and all the while impugn the integrity of those beliefs in the process, can understand they are the example of that christian they claim all people should accept on faith!?

What would jesus do.

I think he'd weep by the time he arrived at reading to page 83 of this thread.

What!? Why are you making it sound like it was a Christian that launched an attack?

The words were used to describe Chrsitians by someone who is obviously not one. I only pointed out that insults were not necessary. The EDIT in my post was because I wrote out the insulting words he used, NOT because I insulted him back.

[Shadow Sentinel]

wow, this thread is still active?............. you people are crazy!

[IamsSon]

And yet, with his re-workings of it he became the rock. That foundation of cathedrals world wide and as such lives eternally in that guise, as creator of the institution wherein god is contained.

So then, when one worships as a catholic, do they worship god or the Pauline ideal of god!? What does any believer within an institution revere first, when the guidelines are written down and carried out through liturgy!? And what, in a thread like this, is one defending when they define what they hold in faith of a higher power, by citing the scripture that first says so!?

Imaginary, I think you may have gotten your apostles mixed up.

Matthew 16:18

And I tell you that you are Peter, (which in Greek means approximately "pebble") and on this rock (in Greek "petra" meaning rock) I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

And although the Catholic Church has used this verse to claim Peter as the fist Pope. In Greek it becomes obvious that the rock Jesus was speaking about was what Peter had just said. Peter had just said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." (Mat 16:16)

[Imaginary Friend]

What!? Why are you making it sound like it was a Christian that launched an attack?

The words were used to describe Christians by someone who is obviously not one. I only pointed out that insults were not necessary. The EDIT in my post was because I wrote out the insulting words he used, NOT because I insulted him back.

I looked at my posting, that one you refer to in this address to me, and do not see any reference what ever to you at all. Not by allusion or directly via. your SN.

Therefore, your defense of something I know nothing about, speaks for itself.

Re: Paul. For the life of me when I posted that reply, I read "Peter" in Z's statement. Therefore perhaps it is Z. that is in error. And since I responded in thinking I read the correct Apostle/patriarch of the catholic church, I would then be spot on.

Or not!

Stranger tings have happened ya know.

[zandore]

What!? Why are you making it sound like it was a Christian that launched an attack?

The words were used to describe Chrsitians by someone who is obviously not one. I only pointed out that insults were not necessary. The EDIT in my post was because I wrote out the insulting words he used, NOT because I insulted him back.

Is this the post you are talking about:

Moro, I am a Christian, and I really do not appreciate being refered to as stupid or an idiot. You may actually want to read some history instead of the fiction in the Da Vinci Code http://www.thetruthaboutdavinci.com/ .

You are entitled to your opinions, but according to the rules of this forum, you are expected to be respectful of the beliefs of others. You could have expressed your beliefs without resorting to calling Christians Edit: No need to reiterate the name calling.

If it is......Lottie is the one that edited it

[IamsSon]

Is this the post you are talking about:

If it is......Lottie is the one that edited it

I never said I edited it myself. I stated that the EDIT on my post was due to the fact that I had written out the same words he had used.