Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
blieve

Telekinesis

274 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

tinieblas

Children please! Mulder stop being so Taurean for god's sake! Logic is a tool and not a rule I believe the saying goes? ALL logic is subjective because it is YOUR interpretation of the facts following your rules of logic...

I have a question for you though; what do you get out of hanging out on a forum where nobody believes in what you believe in and you have no interest at all in what is being discussed by the majority on here? Why is the big question? To tell us we are wrong? What's the point of that then? Most of us are here because we believe in matters being discussed here and want to either share or learn more.....you appear to have neither of these things as a goal; along with several others.....what is the point of simply telling folks they are wrong on a site where no-one cares about whether they are wrong or not in the opinion of science?

Proof is everywhere, Mulder; we are not at fault, you are ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Agent. Mulder

Children please! Mulder stop being so Taurean for god's sake! Logic is a tool and not a rule I believe the saying goes? ALL logic is subjective because it is YOUR interpretation of the facts following your rules of logic...

logic is not a rule, because prisons would be jam packed from people not using it.

I have a question for you though; what do you get out of hanging out on a forum where nobody believes in what you believe in and you have no interest at all in what is being discussed by the majority on here? Why is the big question? To tell us we are wrong? What's the point of that then? Most of us are here because we believe in matters being discussed here and want to either share or learn more.....you appear to have neither of these things as a goal; along with several others.....what is the point of simply telling folks they are wrong on a site where no-one cares about whether they are wrong or not in the opinion of science?

not to tell people theyre wrong, but just to not try something that cant happen. to not get their hopes up for things like this. and to have an evidence delivered to me about it actually working (which ive never gotten).

i just come to state my opinion on these, and hope people will believe it.

Proof is everywhere, Mulder; we are not at fault, you are ;)

save the wink for a lady.

proof is nowhere, and the only ones at fault are the ones claiming it, but giving nothing for it.

strange that this is news to you now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
G3N0M3

Tinieblas made all the right points, and you half-answered them as always. Your obviously not here to help others, you claim that you are keeping them from, what? Learning... what truth? Because you do not believe something makes you force others to follow you? Your no better than Christians, or Jahovas Witnesses in fact your worse, at least they are trying to put your faith into something, not uterly destroy it.

You Agent, as I've said before are a lost cause, you have no real views of anything, you just follow a small mass of people who do not believe in what is not quantified. Again, you have never shown me your ultimate knowledge, nor have you shown us all how something could not exist. You neither show competency nor a willingness to help others...

As for "logic" being the reason keeping people out from behind bars... Your frankly probably a 12 year old, whoever thinks that its "logic" that keeps people from doing bad things is most likely clinicaly insane. Its not about 'logic' you fool, its about ETHICS, do you know what those are kid?

Frankly you are not competent enough to understand the fabric of society nevermind the world. Go back to school kid... Seriously, I dropped out at grade 10 because it was to slow for me, they wouldn't even let me get credits for the advanced classes I was taking on my spares because they said it would not be fair... Pfft grade 12 advanced physics... You probably do not even know what quantum relativity is or even quantum feilds... In which case if you were any kind of scientist you know that there are loopholes to everything, and to think that you know everything is like saying you are "God".

LOL, you make me laugh kid, you can't even answer a question without repeating someone elses answer, except for video games... what in the freakin hell do video games have to do with your internal mechanisms, and energy??? The EMF that the TV and consol gives off??? LOL, you don't have to prove anything? Well I do NOT have to prove anything to you, what would the point be, I don't care for your life, maybe someone elses like tinieblas here, or even mattshark because he at least has FREE WILL he is not as much into himself as he was before, at least he only argues points he KNOWS about... Not you, saying you know something meanwhile you probably don't even know what turns fecies white...

I'm done with you, forever...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Agent. Mulder

Tinieblas made all the right points, and you half-answered them as always. Your obviously not here to help others, you claim that you are keeping them from, what? Learning... what truth? Because you do not believe something makes you force others to follow you? Your no better than Christians, or Jahovas Witnesses in fact your worse, at least they are trying to put your faith into something, not uterly destroy it.

nope. i answered their question fully, and they didnt hit on all the points. but its not unexpected youd say something like this.

also, im nothing like a religious person, i state my opinion on what i know and see, and is subject to change through science and evidence. a religious person is usually willfully ignorant. i am not. this analogy doesnt work.

You Agent, as I've said before are a lost cause, you have no real views of anything, you just follow a small mass of people who do not believe in what is not quantified. Again, you have never shown me your ultimate knowledge, nor have you shown us all how something could not exist. You neither show competency nor a willingness to help others...

obviously im a lost cause to you, because nothing you say backs up anything on the subject that is lacking with Any evidence. so i dont believe it, im a lost cause to you. hmmm...weird sense of logic you have :hmm:

and willingness to help others is to let them know reality. like telling a kid, their dog isnt coming back. its gone to sleep for a long time. they must accept that.

As for "logic" being the reason keeping people out from behind bars... Your frankly probably a 12 year old, whoever thinks that its "logic" that keeps people from doing bad things is most likely clinicaly insane. Its not about 'logic' you fool, its about ETHICS, do you know what those are kid?

nope. not quite. but quite a bit older, although now im questioning your age from your posts. im probably older than you. and thus why you have nothing better to do than sit on here and insult people i guess. thats fine by me though. being an adult, i dont take offence to kids and their name calling.

and why is this not about logic, but ethics? why are you saying tinie and i are wrong?

Frankly you are not competent enough to understand the fabric of society nevermind the world. Go back to school kid... Seriously, I dropped out at grade 10 because it was to slow for me, they wouldn't even let me get credits for the advanced classes I was taking on my spares because they said it would not be fair... Pfft grade 12 advanced physics... You probably do not even know what quantum relativity is or even quantum feilds... In which case if you were any kind of scientist you know that there are loopholes to everything, and to think that you know everything is like saying you are "God".

yes, i know what both are. im guessing you might from wiki, because thats your only source of education after dropping out of school?

i decided to stay, and am still continuing it. i enjoy learning but it appears you do not. how unfortunate. i have faith in you though. you can do it my friend :tu:

LOL, you make me laugh kid, you can't even answer a question without repeating someone elses answer, except for video games... what in the freakin hell do video games have to do with your internal mechanisms, and energy??? The EMF that the TV and consol gives off??? LOL, you don't have to prove anything? Well I do NOT have to prove anything to you, what would the point be, I don't care for your life, maybe someone elses like tinieblas here, or even mattshark because he at least has FREE WILL he is not as much into himself as he was before, at least he only argues points he KNOWS about... Not you, saying you know something meanwhile you probably don't even know what turns fecies white...

you seem so unhappy, and angry. im curious as to why. was it your childhood? bad family? relationship problems? and this is why you resort to making things up about people and name calling all day on an online dicsussion forum. wow. what a life.

i still find it funny that none of your posts here consist of any form of evidence for what we are talking about. you just get upset so quickly with people who have a differing view. i would at least expect some type of evidence after the name calling, so your posts dont seem comepletely pointless, but i never get them. sadly, your posts basically sum up the person you are.

I'm done with you, forever...

i understand you admit defeat. i will miss your posts as they made me laugh on numerous occasions. goodbye friend.

but hopefully now that youre done, we can get back on topic. cheers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tinieblas

you fired a lot of cheap shots Mulder, I thought you were above that and am hence disapointed of you.

You never fully answer my questions and avoid them worse than any politician! I ask again, what do you hope to gain by telling everyone on this board that they are wrong?

Easy G, I understand your frustration as much as I appreciate you assistance, you're trying hard and I'm glad someone is, because I don't have the time at the moment I'm afraid, to do more than drop in now and then.

Back onto topic; I think it's probably a bit late for that, let's close the thread shall we, we're not discussing the topic anymore, any attempt to do so sees someone derail it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Agent. Mulder

fired no cheap shots. i refrained from the name calling they decided to use on me. i wont sink to their level.

i always answer your questions fully, sorry if you dont like what you hear. since i guess the questions backfire and doesnt give you what you want.

i already told you this, and ill say it again, i just hope people will realize what theyre trying to do, cannot be done. and i dont wish for people get their hopes up on things like this, especially young people who are unaware none of this has ever been proven or shown before. just want them to try and get a little more educated on the subject of 'psychic powers'.

i think that helps people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
drakonwick

This part of the forum says nothing like, (The Facts of Psychic Abilities). Am I missing something? I think a few people need to tone down on the (I know psychic abilities exist because I have experience in it) point of view. Who are you people to tell a person that they are ignorant or incompetent just because their opinion differs from yours?

Here is a good question, how far would one of you go to prove just one of your abilities??? If in fact you can do any of the things you claim, it should not be that hard to find someone to assist you on your path to once and for all, put some much needed solid evidence on psychic abilities.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tinieblas

by the same dint, Moro, neither should the scientifically minded call us, the spiritually-minded ignorant either. In fairness I have been called ignorant, both directly and by insinuation by certain people on this and other fora on this site.....I try to not personally call people ignorant; I am simply trying to encourage folks to open their minds to alternative points of view and consider the possibilities...

If I could prove these things, I certainly would but I'm afraid, at least for me (as you know) my ability to foretell or do certain things is patchy and unreliable and not something I can do on demand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bLu3 de 3n3rgy

i already told you this, and ill say it again, i just hope people will realize what theyre trying to do, cannot be done. and i dont wish for people get their hopes up on things like this, especially young people who are unaware none of this has ever been proven or shown before. just want them to try and get a little more educated on the subject of 'psychic powers'.

i think that helps people.

This becoming precariously close to an anti belief agenda which is one condition not to be broken on this board.

No bashing - Do not use this section to pursue an anti-skeptic or anti-believer agenda.

No one can be responsible for what the readership and membership should think, but the individuals themselves. It's up to each and every person to form an opinion. It's not your job Mulder to use this as a reason for gunning down whatever happens to fall outside your realm of possibility, or of what can't be scientifically proven. I'll be absolutely clear on that.

You should also be aware that there's a well balanced Mod Team who do actually look out for things considered 'dangerous' or inappropriate to young people.

As it happens people do claim to have experiences and such experiences and reported phenomena are very welcome to be discussed here.

Now I suggest strongly that the topic is returned to and returned to in a manner which is civil and within the guidelines of this board.

Forum guidelines

Due to the controversial nature of the topics in this section we ask that members keep the following in mind:

No flaming - Do not insult, mock, attack or harrass other members.

No bashing - Do not use this section to pursue an anti-skeptic or anti-believer agenda.

Edited by SupeRgirl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
G3N0M3

Hey SupeRgirl, thanks for the much needed intervention... Again, another mod who needed to stop this kind of attacking of individuals beliefs.

As for what you said Moro, if you personaly would like to visit the chat room once and awhile you may see the "evidence" you so want. I've been on there many times, and shown many people what I can do, I've taught people how to practice these abilities, and have seen results. I've even helped other individuals with personal matters, which in itself does not matter if something exists or not, but the fact that I've helped someone using my abilities.

The fact of the matter is that some people (who's name I will not bother mentioning) should read some threads of mine, it will help them understand much more than what they know. For example "Waisting Time?" is about how the debate between skeptics vs believers is deeper than most people think and people avoid it. Since I started that thread I have not seen the afore mentioned individual post, or show any intention of telling me his views on that subject.

Also tinieblas, I do respect you not only because you share the same understandings as me, but how you post, because in fact you are not one sided in what your posting, but how your also trying to help people understand. Though I will not speak to that person does not mean I will not help other individuals. Especialy people that person has no clue about, he neither has any experience helping people mentaly or psychologicaly.

As for that individual no doubt they have not had people ask you by name, and by refference for help. You have not helped at least a dozen people directly, nor do you have any experience telling someone ANYTHING that has to do with this. You think that simply telling some kid who is having these 'problems' are looking for attention, meanwhile you have not experienced it. For someone who does not experience this, its not a matter of attention, its a matter of sanity. You tell some kid who is having 'visions' that they are not having them, what are you insinuating? That they are crazy?? I talk with people who have genuine problems, things that ARE life threatening down the road. You neither have the experience in the matter, nor the knowhow to deal with these sittuations. So if you have any kind of intelligence, decentcy, and understanding, stop what you are doing, you do not know the effects you have telling an impressionable kid that they are crazy or insane.

Now for the topic, which in turn I will repeat myself; If someone is willing to spend almost a lifetime to do telekinesis, or at least enough attention and devotion by all means try as hard as you can. Learn about Yoga, Tai Chi, and Qi Gong, these are all 'centering' tools you can use to build your physical energy. This way you can focus, practice, and feel the energy inside of you, inside of your plants, your animals, and the world around you. Learning about this energy gets you on the path to understanding more than just telekinesis, and I suggest anyone who has a want to do this should try.

There are also many devices that can help you practice, but remember if you are trying to do this you can not do it for a half an hour and give up, even an hour, or two! This type of energy work is very intensive and takes a lot of practice, and understanding. There are different things you can practice with, some use a psi wheel, some use a string and mettal inside of a glass jar. As you get into this you will feel drained, both mentaly and physicaly, which skeptics do not even think about. Even cirtain times you can not do it for reasons myself and the rest of the psychic group here does not understand. Some days dependant on our own energy we can not give proper readings, sometimes people can't even use their abilities. The thing is with telekinesis and anything along these lines of metaphysical abilities there are factors we don't even understand or comprehend.

So one last warning, when you are practicing any of this make sure that you are trying to have good intentions with what you are learning, because in fact it will either not work, or if it does work you will have bad karma. Now 'bad karma' is kind of like just bad luck, you could lose your job, a girlfriend, even have an accident yourself. So a warning for anyone trying any of this should consider when practicing.

Well I hope this was informative, and everyone understood what I was getting at. If anyone has more questions about these psychic abilities, feel free to PM me personaly.

G3N0M3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Agent. Mulder

no agenda here. but ill stop saying i dont believe it to be possible, since theres no evidence for it.

and i hope G3 will stop resorting to name calling people on the forum with a differing opinion.

sooo, me last posty on the thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tinieblas

Excellent post G, and thank you for the compliments! You also do the same thing as you have complimented me for doing, you try to present a balanced opinion and get criticised for it. I applaud your tenacity, my friend.

Like I wish to be you are a teacher; I like to think of myself as something similar, just with many more contraints on my time at the present time, to be more of an assistance to your efforts. Thank you for the backup and good words, I am sure you do plenty of good work; that is what having abilities is all about, in my opinion, helping others and using them and the insights they provide you with, to help those who need help; it's all about balance.

Back on topic; it is the genuine desire to do good, without desiring personal gain or "power" which I think fuels your ability to do these things, it's balance within yourself and with the universe; to be able to establish the give-take relationship of the flow of energy; you may take it for your abilities, but you must give it back and keep the balance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
drakonwick

As for that individual no doubt they have not had people ask you by name, and by refference for help. You have not helped at least a dozen people directly, nor do you have any experience telling someone ANYTHING that has to do with this. You think that simply telling some kid who is having these 'problems' are looking for attention, meanwhile you have not experienced it. For someone who does not experience this, its not a matter of attention, its a matter of sanity. You tell some kid who is having 'visions' that they are not having them, what are you insinuating? That they are crazy?? I talk with people who have genuine problems, things that ARE life threatening down the road. You neither have the experience in the matter, nor the knowhow to deal with these sittuations. So if you have any kind of intelligence, decentcy, and understanding, stop what you are doing, you do not know the effects you have telling an impressionable kid that they are crazy or insane.

G3N0M3

I suppose that I am having a hard time grasping this part of your post G3NOM3. What you are saying here, is that absolutely no one should tell a person that is having some strange experiences/problems, that they are crazy or delusional. Personally I find that to be a little to condescending, (yeah I suppose using the words crazy or delusional would not be the right words to use) but I suppose suggesting a person get some medical/psychological assistance would not be that bad of advice. Absolutely no one on here can give a definitive answer as to what could be wrong with someone, yes you can give some advice, but giving them supposed facts, saying meditate three hours a day or this and that etc. could just as well be psychologically harmful as not telling them to seek professional assistance.

A person is having some strange experiences and the advice is meditate for three hours everyday, telling them to ignore their symptoms that they will go a way as they progress further with meditation. Then only to find out that it is not working and now the problems are getting worse...

Do you understand what I am saying? Some of the symptoms talked about on here could be detrimental to a persons health and well being. No one can say for sure what could be the problem without having the proper knowledge/professionalism to diagnose the problem in the first place. Anything else is mere guess work.

I truly hope that explains a few key problems on such a touchy subject as this.

Moro

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jules99

I suppose that I am having a hard time grasping this part of your post G3NOM3. What you are saying here, is that absolutely no one should tell a person that is having some strange experiences/problems, that they are crazy or delusional. Personally I find that to be a little to condescending, (yeah I suppose using the words crazy or delusional would not be the right words to use) but I suppose suggesting a person get some medical/psychological assistance would not be that bad of advice. Absolutely no one on here can give a definitive answer as to what could be wrong with someone, yes you can give some advice, but giving them supposed facts, saying meditate three hours a day or this and that etc. could just as well be psychologically harmful as not telling them to seek professional assistance.

A person is having some strange experiences and the advice is meditate for three hours everyday, telling them to ignore their symptoms that they will go a way as they progress further with meditation. Then only to find out that it is not working and now the problems are getting worse...

Do you understand what I am saying? Some of the symptoms talked about on here could be detrimental to a persons health and well being. No one can say for sure what could be the problem without having the proper knowledge/professionalism to diagnose the problem in the first place. Anything else is mere guess work.

I truly hope that explains a few key problems on such a touchy subject as this.

Moro

G'Day Moro;

Meditations not a bad thing if it makes us examine motives and intent. An impulse or desire need not be acted on or acknowledged. In fact an impulse or desire either verbalised or acted on physically without preceding due rational thought is where most problems in the world can probably be traced back to.

I agree professional help might be needed in extreme cases, but unless a person can be seen to have a potential to cause physical or psychological harm to either themselves or the public I cant see a problem with offering advice based on your own intuition or experience. Its up to the individual whether they choose to accept advice or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
drakonwick

G'Day Moro;

Meditations not a bad thing if it makes us examine motives and intent. An impulse or desire need not be acted on or acknowledged. In fact an impulse or desire either verbalised or acted on physically without preceding due rational thought is where most problems in the world can probably be traced back to.

I agree professional help might be needed in extreme cases, but unless a person can be seen to have a potential to cause physical or psychological harm to either themselves or the public I cant see a problem with offering advice based on your own intuition or experience. Its up to the individual whether they choose to accept advice or not.

Hello there, Jules

I absolutely have no problems with suggestions. But, I do feel sincerely that both opinions due to personal experiences as well as professional assistance should be valued accordingly, depending on the circumstances of the individual with the issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tinieblas

But Moro, it is up to the individual to decide what is best for them unless it is obvious to those around them or professionals that they are a danger to either others or themselves. To blanket-label anyone experiencing something out of the ordinary or impossible to explain scientifically, anything which sounds incredible, as insane or deluded is facile and unfair. It's too common a predisposition on this site to say "well you're just imagining it obviously" or "you're obviously suffering from some form of mental instability" and this is what is objected to. It's too simple and too easy a get out on behalf of those who are either losing an argument or wishing to discredit a poster to question their ability to reason or their intelligence/mental stability rather than abmit they may have some point. I mean why not give people credence rather than deny out of hand the possibility, even if you don't beleive, a bit of common courtesy would be nice.

scientifically proven or not, telekinesis, among other abilities has been shown in a number of places and, deny the providance or not, it's possible. Some of us, for supporting and believing in this thing have, in effect, been called liars, my friend, not a nice thing to be called, no matter how indirectly it is done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
drakonwick

But Moro, it is up to the individual to decide what is best for them unless it is obvious to those around them or professionals that they are a danger to either others or themselves. To blanket-label anyone experiencing something out of the ordinary or impossible to explain scientifically, anything which sounds incredible, as insane or deluded is facile and unfair. It's too common a predisposition on this site to say "well you're just imagining it obviously" or "you're obviously suffering from some form of mental instability" and this is what is objected to. It's too simple and too easy a get out on behalf of those who are either losing an argument or wishing to discredit a poster to question their ability to reason or their intelligence/mental stability rather than abmit they may have some point. I mean why not give people credence rather than deny out of hand the possibility, even if you don't beleive, a bit of common courtesy would be nice.

scientifically proven or not, telekinesis, among other abilities has been shown in a number of places and, deny the providance or not, it's possible. Some of us, for supporting and believing in this thing have, in effect, been called liars, my friend, not a nice thing to be called, no matter how indirectly it is done.

I welcome your opinion tinieblas! But, I will still give my honest opinion on the matter, whether it be for or against the topic being discussed. I am not here as a confiding comforter. Though I am here to discuss the reality of the topic being discussed, for which on this topic is telekinesis.

Now objectively speaking, there really is no valid evidence that currently supports telekinesis as having any solidity for existing. Of course you have the few that have tried to prove otherwise, say for instance, Nina Kulagina, even as interesting as this case was the tests being done on her were not efficient and this was detrimental to the outcome of the whole experiment. Then you have Uri Geller, this guy was simply proven to be a fraud on many different accounts.

I suppose this is why he now just stays with entertainment. He even recently had a show with Criss Angel of mindfreak.

You see, in all this, one has to seriously question the validity of telekinesis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jules99

I welcome your opinion tinieblas! But, I will still give my honest opinion on the matter, whether it be for or against the topic being discussed. I am not here as a confiding comforter. Though I am here to discuss the reality of the topic being discussed, for which on this topic is telekinesis.

Now objectively speaking, there really is no valid evidence that currently supports telekinesis as having any solidity for existing. Of course you have the few that have tried to prove otherwise, say for instance, Nina Kulagina, even as interesting as this case was the tests being done on her were not efficient and this was detrimental to the outcome of the whole experiment. Then you have Uri Geller, this guy was simply proven to be a fraud on many different accounts.

I suppose this is why he now just stays with entertainment. He even recently had a show with Criss Angel of mindfreak.

You see, in all this, one has to seriously question the validity of telekinesis.

Cheers again Moro:

Are there any universally accepted scientific tests for telekinesis or any other psychic ability? If not the absence of a uniform benchmark would leave the whole arena prone to abuse and manipulation by fraudulent claiments and skeptics alike.

I think manifestation or serendipity might be able to be classified as looser aspects of telekinetics. I know Ive experienced in life situations where I have wanted or needed something badly and its turned up enexpectedly. Of course how could you hope to prove this ability in a lab?

One time I was fishing. It was an idealic, quiet morning and the fish were biting. 50m across the lake they started speedboat racing and of course with all the noise the fish went off the bite. I stared at one boat with a mixture of disgust and hatred and said I hope you crash. At that instant the boat flipped doing over 100k. The driver was eventually pulled out of the water and taken to hospital. I sat down and although I know it was probably only a coincedence I felt so responsible. That was enough to put me off the thought of telekinesis for life. Having an impulse or desire and acting on it without due rational thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
drakonwick

Cheers again Moro:

Are there any universally accepted scientific tests for telekinesis or any other psychic ability? If not the absence of a uniform benchmark would leave the whole arena prone to abuse and manipulation by fraudulent claiments and skeptics alike.

I think manifestation or serendipity might be able to be classified as looser aspects of telekinetics. I know Ive experienced in life situations where I have wanted or needed something badly and its turned up enexpectedly. Of course how could you hope to prove this ability in a lab?

One time I was fishing. It was an idealic, quiet morning and the fish were biting. 50m across the lake they started speedboat racing and of course with all the noise the fish went off the bite. I stared at one boat with a mixture of disgust and hatred and said I hope you crash. At that instant the boat flipped doing over 100k. The driver was eventually pulled out of the water and taken to hospital. I sat down and although I know it was probably only a coincedence I felt so responsible. That was enough to put me off the thought of telekinesis for life. Having an impulse or desire and acting on it without due rational thought.

But jules, you have to take into consideration that accounts like yours are everywhere. The thing is no one can hold any kind of validty to them for the fact that they are totally random and in no way, can be recreated on cue.

I will never say that it is impossible to move an object with a mere thought alone, but given the circumstances, I will say that it is highly improbable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tinieblas

Moro, even though I addressed my post to you I do not refer to you in the less than salubrious sense inherant to my post. Coversely, you are one of the more reasonable skeptics on here; I sense that you would welcome proof were it to be there and scientific....you seem to want to believe but cannot due to your scientific and logical mind. I accept this and respect it. You show respect and, though you disagree with many of my posts, that is both your right and the way of the world; I am not insecure in any way and require no affirmation, but thank you anyway. :)

To return to topic, I do think there is some basis for telekinesis, although I have never reliably done it myself and have never tried to work on this side of my ability. Once, as a child I think I did something but have not repeated it since. To expand; the house I lived in was heavily haunted and I had a very large number of experiences there; from bumps and things disappearing only to reappear somewhere else, to faces in the condensation in windows calling my name (my dog reacted to that one so I know something was there), to nightmares, visions and...well too much to recount in any detail here. But it led me to believe I was "gifted" from a very young age and one day, a friend and I experimented. We lay under a quilt on my bed and faced the area of highest activity, where I 'sensed' a presence most often and placed a couple of Star Wars figures on the ledge, a few inches back. I concentrated on one of them and tried to pull it towards me. After a time it teetered, seemed to drag itself forward a centimetre or two and fell off the ledge onto the floor. At the time I felt for the first time a pulling sensation behind the centre of my forehead (where the third eye is), a sensation I would have again many times between then and now. To me then, and still wondering now, I did an act of telekinesis, no matter how feeble and un-Jedi-like (hahaha) it was. I have never done it since but may consider trying it again one of these days.....

any hints at how one can develop or practise such an art?

My opinion is that human beings are surrounded by and filled with energy (call it Prana, aura, Xi, karma, whatever) which is responsible for many psychic abilities, as it can extend out at times and 'touch' objects in the example of telekinesis....if you imagine a less flashy and invisible (to our eyes) version of the Grand Marshall of the Necromongers in a movie involving a famously shaven-headed african american actor with funny eyes, that's kind of how it is. That energy is the soul, ka, spirit. Upon death and during astral projection (I still use the old-fashioned term of "travelling"; showing my age!) this energy, which is coherant and organised, leaves the body, at least in part. In telekinesis, it reaches out and either takes hold of or manipulates objects. Of course there is no scientifically accepted basis for this opinion or theory of mine (let the flames commence) but to me, it makes perfect sense. How this energy remains coherant and why it appears to be differently developed in some and not others I do not know but I believe that therein lies conciousness and imagination (the higher senses I think Keats called them) and so a person's experiences and mental bent affect how this energy behaves and develops. In most it is passive or not noticed (except that everyone gets the odd stab of deja-vu or a tingle of sixth sense once in a while) in others it is developed in a variety of ways, sometimes slightly, sometimes moderately, rarely fully. But full belief in oneself, acceptance of being, to a degree, ignorant of many aspects of the universe and our place within it, an artistic bent, an imaginative and belief in magic kind of personality; more emotional, less logical; a lack of fear (of being ridiculed, different, excluded by others, of one's mortality etc), a genuine and unquenchable desire to do good whenever one can, a true selflessness; these things can influence the development of this energy and what it does, how it manifests itself.

Thus abilities and their "strength" is different in each and every one of us, because our experiences and personalities are different; despite there being similarities (see my "Gathering of Experiences" thread, but no negative comments there please, it's there for a record, not dicussion of veracity of lack thereof of what is contained within) we are all a different as members of the same species can be. Thus, like our material capabilities (ie I am not a "handy" person at all and not a brilliant team sportsman, individual and endurance sports are my thing), or mental or spiritual capabilities are different. Thus it is hard to study, because ability does not manifest the same way in everyone, is not controllable the same way, is influenced by their state of mind and emotional state differently, thus it is next to impossible to set the kind of standard science demands.

Edited by tinieblas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Paranormalcy

The problem with the very fine idea that telekinesis is being done a disservice because there is no objectively accepted test for it, is that BECAUSE telekinesis has yet to be shown to exist, nobody knows HOW to test for it or even what you're testing or how to measure it.

You can't develop a test for something you have no proof of or understanding of how it works. One way to do it is just generally apply directed logic to it, hitting the subject (TK) with a barrage of tests, all as close to relevant as can be determined, and see if any of them indicate anything, even if it's just a way to proceed to a better test. The lack of a "proper TK test" is no more an obstacle than any other endeavor - there were no tests for a number of things, energy, bacteria, etc. until eventually either people got an epiphany and put together a novel setup, or even just stumbled onto something - tests are designed based on what we know or strongly suspect, about a subject, in order to refine the test to clarify and finally make the results evidential - this just doesn't happen overnight for some things. And it is also still quite possible there IS no TK and so the lack of a proper test for it makes sense.

I've always been a big fan of telekinesis/psychokinesis and J.B. Rhine's ESP and PK research, and some of the stories like Nina Kuligina, Uri Geller, etc. I really want it to exist, even if I didn't have it. But I can't take it on faith, I can't obliviously validate a Youtube video, take a psi-wheel spinning as evidence, or childhood memories where TK was used on an action figure that represented a character in a movie that ALSO used TK.

I was with my parents at Oklahoma State University in the Student Union, and Uri Geller was attempting to bend a spoon at a distance, it looked like they set up a spoon on a bowling alley lane or something, and he was standing at the end of it staring, and breathing and tensing his muscles, etc. I had no IDEA what was going on or why this was interesting and was told that he was trying to bend a spoon, affect an object, at a distance, with just the power of his mind, or thoughts. I was immediately fascinated and watched most of the show. When commercials came on, I would try to wrinkle the clear celophane sleeve around my dad's cigarette package, and eventually convinced myself I did it. I don't know when but at some point, even at the age of 7-10, I eventually thought about that night and was developing some of my critical thinking skills, and became less and less certain I had done anything, and also that anything COULD be done. Geller didn't manage to do anything that night except the old rubbing the spoon's neck and making it bend in his hand trick, so there was no support from this great psychic either. Since then I've apparently been steadily becoming more and more skeptical on a number of paranormal subjects, and finding no compelling alternate explanations or exceptions for the lack of evidence for any of these things.

One good question I've seen presented in these forums, for pretty much any paranormal ability, be in TK or clairvoyance or whatever else, is WHY? Why would Man have this faculty? We have arms and legs, we have eyes and ears, we can speak to one another, we can go different places, we can lift and throw. Why would we have these nebulous redundant faculties, that apparently are vestigial at best, unreliable and nearly (or totally) even functional now, like if we had any such abilities at one time, their use and importance is obviously nearly obsolete. Do all animals have these same abilities, as their backup redundant senses and ability to manipulate or affect things?

Digression (not directly relevant to topic):

As for me, I'm on paranormal forums sort of similar as was stated a bit earlier - it is a combination of learning for myself, and contributing back what I am able, even if it isn't the same learning or intent I got. I read and respond and debate subjects, most of which I find to be invalid, unproven, etc. but I still take away knowledge from the conversation, the other posters, any research anyone has done - it helps me be more informed on current specifics and general information, even on subjects I don't buy into. I can then incorporate my take on this, into what else I know, and see if it helps or conflicts with any of my ideas, or other ideas that I am aware of.

This allows me to constantly refine my knowledge on a number of subjects for myself, even if it's just one more reason why X can't exist, as well as to share with other people. I can see a post wondering about or suggesting or focusing on a paranormal topic that I have some info on, and I can post what I know, have read, am aware of as far as popular and suggested theories or explanations, as well as flaws, gaps in logic and evidence, and reasons why the subject is unlikely or without empirical proof - and I can share this with people, even if it doesn't fit with what they were wanting to read.

I don't push my alternate explanations or evidence against their subject or belief, I don't insist they accept them, I don't hold my info up as the divine light of the world unto the masses, but I don't apologize for it, for my observations and conclusions or thoughts, and I present them to the person, clearly what I have arrived at personally, from my knowledge and reasoning, and I don't generally compromise or placate on a subject if I strongly feel it is baseless - I offer this to posters as yet another option for them to consider when examining all their options and interpretations of events, because I would want people that had information I don't have on a subject, to present it to me if it was something I was researching or trying to learn more about - that's the point of a discussion forum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
G3N0M3

I suppose that I am having a hard time grasping this part of your post G3NOM3. What you are saying here, is that absolutely no one should tell a person that is having some strange experiences/problems, that they are crazy or delusional. Personally I find that to be a little to condescending, (yeah I suppose using the words crazy or delusional would not be the right words to use) but I suppose suggesting a person get some medical/psychological assistance would not be that bad of advice. Absolutely no one on here can give a definitive answer as to what could be wrong with someone, yes you can give some advice, but giving them supposed facts, saying meditate three hours a day or this and that etc. could just as well be psychologically harmful as not telling them to seek professional assistance.

I truly hope that explains a few key problems on such a touchy subject as this.

Moro

Actualy if you read that again you will be able to see how I was focusing on the point about experience. Because the fact that he has never helped anyone in this area and I have much like a psycologist of the paranormal and otherwise. You see you can't just determine what someone 'has' unless you know what it is to begin with, by KNOWING what the facts are about these kinds of abilities you can differ the responce of an individual who HAS it and who THINKS they have it.

So in fact why I am saying he should not go and say the things they are saying is because in fact they do not know the "symptoms" of either parts of the subject. You see I help people all the time deal with what they think are 'problems' some are genuine problems that do need to be found, and fixed but how that is done varies for each case.

So if anyone here knows what the difference between a 'vision' and hullucination their are very specific feelings that differentiate, also many other factors such as the outcome, and pre-requisits for future things that individual may have. Also the fact that I've dealt with many 'cases' physicaly and not only over the internet the person needs to be understood, and you have to have many factors equaling eachother out, such as trust, and information. If you can see that someone is bending the information you know that they are either lieing or they have a mental condition.

Having experience in this field is not easy either, you need people to know you, and get to know you. You need to share with them your feelings and have common ground. You see because I have went through many psychologists through my lifetime because of stressfull events and because of the same reasons as many people who come on here I have that common ground, and understanding. Someone frankly saying that they know everything about a person, their life, and what they know is absurd and ignorant.

If you have the experience in the matter then you have some kind of 'backing' that your opinion can actualy matter. So if you think that I'm simply saying "Don't tell them something does not exist, or anything along those lines" its only because they themselves can not and do not understand. So in many of the cases I've been involved with I've had to get the person checked out and I have helped many people deal with their actual sickness through talking with their parents, and even convincing them to confide in their parents. Also I remember mentioning this awhile ago when I first started coming to UM when someone was saying the same kind of thing. Where because I was the only person they could talk to openly I denied them because I was to busy, and I thought that they were lieing or joking. This did not turn out well because all I told them to do was go get checked out first then talk to me... That did not go well, they ended up commiting scuicide because everyone was not accepting they're illness or even willing to help...

So in fact you people think that your doing good, telling impressionable children, children with REAL problems that they are crazy, insane, and other things because you do not understand... Which is the reason why I come down hard on skeptics telling these kids what they think is and is not in this world and universe... Though they may have their heart in the right place trying to help someone out it may not actualy be helping. Though I'm not saying that I'm infallible or anything I mean everyone makes mistakes, but people saying what they THINK something is can be much more harmfull than what they think.

Perhaps now you will understand why I tell people to PM me, or why they come to me through refference, because I can help people with many things they do not understand. Not only kids, even adults with families ask for my help, and advice. In which turn sometimes thats all someone needs to hear, and have, is advice from a welcoming heart, and great thoughts in the right place. Hopefully whoever reads this especialy skeptics will keep this in mind when they are going to tell an impressionable kid what they think about them. If some of you do not understand about someone ask about them, talk with them, sometimes thats all they need...

G3N0M3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
drakonwick

Actualy if you read that again you will be able to see how I was focusing on the point about experience. Because the fact that he has never helped anyone in this area and I have much like a psycologist of the paranormal and otherwise. You see you can't just determine what someone 'has' unless you know what it is to begin with, by KNOWING what the facts are about these kinds of abilities you can differ the responce of an individual who HAS it and who THINKS they have it.

So in fact why I am saying he should not go and say the things they are saying is because in fact they do not know the "symptoms" of either parts of the subject. You see I help people all the time deal with what they think are 'problems' some are genuine problems that do need to be found, and fixed but how that is done varies for each case.

So if anyone here knows what the difference between a 'vision' and hullucination their are very specific feelings that differentiate, also many other factors such as the outcome, and pre-requisits for future things that individual may have. Also the fact that I've dealt with many 'cases' physicaly and not only over the internet the person needs to be understood, and you have to have many factors equaling eachother out, such as trust, and information. If you can see that someone is bending the information you know that they are either lieing or they have a mental condition.

Having experience in this field is not easy either, you need people to know you, and get to know you. You need to share with them your feelings and have common ground. You see because I have went through many psychologists through my lifetime because of stressfull events and because of the same reasons as many people who come on here I have that common ground, and understanding. Someone frankly saying that they know everything about a person, their life, and what they know is absurd and ignorant.

If you have the experience in the matter then you have some kind of 'backing' that your opinion can actualy matter. So if you think that I'm simply saying "Don't tell them something does not exist, or anything along those lines" its only because they themselves can not and do not understand. So in many of the cases I've been involved with I've had to get the person checked out and I have helped many people deal with their actual sickness through talking with their parents, and even convincing them to confide in their parents. Also I remember mentioning this awhile ago when I first started coming to UM when someone was saying the same kind of thing. Where because I was the only person they could talk to openly I denied them because I was to busy, and I thought that they were lieing or joking. This did not turn out well because all I told them to do was go get checked out first then talk to me... That did not go well, they ended up commiting scuicide because everyone was not accepting they're illness or even willing to help...

So in fact you people think that your doing good, telling impressionable children, children with REAL problems that they are crazy, insane, and other things because you do not understand... Which is the reason why I come down hard on skeptics telling these kids what they think is and is not in this world and universe... Though they may have their heart in the right place trying to help someone out it may not actualy be helping. Though I'm not saying that I'm infallible or anything I mean everyone makes mistakes, but people saying what they THINK something is can be much more harmfull than what they think.

Perhaps now you will understand why I tell people to PM me, or why they come to me through refference, because I can help people with many things they do not understand. Not only kids, even adults with families ask for my help, and advice. In which turn sometimes thats all someone needs to hear, and have, is advice from a welcoming heart, and great thoughts in the right place. Hopefully whoever reads this especialy skeptics will keep this in mind when they are going to tell an impressionable kid what they think about them. If some of you do not understand about someone ask about them, talk with them, sometimes thats all they need...

G3N0M3

Well I have read deeply into situtions as to what you are doing for these people and I suppose the general outcome of the situation can vary widely.

Personally, I feel you do not have the authority to tell anyone what should be said to an individual having strange experiences, nor do you have the professional knowledge to ascertain what a person is experiencing psychologicaly. Yes, suggestions can be helpful, but they have there limitations depending on how far you are willing to go with them.

So, upon saying that, I am going to have to break off all further posts with you, as I do not see us ever coming to any kind reasonable conversation on this particular subject.

Regards,

Tom

Edited by Moro Bumbleroot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
G3N0M3

Well I have read deeply into situtions as to what you are doing for these people and I suppose the general outcome of the situation can vary widely.

Personally, I feel you do not have the authority to tell anyone what should be said to an individual having strange experiences, nor do you have the professional knowledge to ascertain what a person is experiencing psychologicaly. Yes, suggestions can be helpful, but they have there limitations depending on how far you are willing to go with them.

So, upon saying that, I am going to have to break off all further posts with you, as I do not see us ever coming to any kind reasonable conversation on this particular subject.

Regards,

Tom

That is both understandable and agreeable, though I have my own opinions I will only point out one of them; In which case I do have enough experience, I have been working with kids, adults and families for over 8 years. I have 'solved' or helped over one hundred individuals and cases in my area all not-for-profit because I genuinely love helping people. I started at school when I was 11-12 as a student-student counselor where I began helping individuals overcome differences between eachother. Once I had helped enough conflicts this way other student came to me asking for help with their family life (I even recieved a new honor made for helping so many students). This grew then into where I could help them deal with the other 'problems' that they could not tell others (because of how well I keep secrets). So only through my Jr. High, and High School careers I helped about 80 some odd people, I still had messages coming in from people I have never met before, because people had recomended my name from the past.

So though I'm not here to convince you, or tell you what to do from here, I can only share with you a summarized version of my experiences. Hopefully you can understand how I know how different kids have different reactions, in which case some people should be carefull with what they say. Especialy as I stated if they have no prior knowledge, or experience of the matter.

I hope we can continue discussing matters without indifference as I enjoy your replies because they are not hostile as others are.

G3N0M3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.