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Gwyny

Why Doesn't he come out

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ShaunZero

i agree with norman he lives in space...he'll be here soon

Interesting. Can you point me to where in the bible it say this?

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Yelekiah

Well if he is omnipresent he isn't just in the sky. He's in the trees, he's in the earth, he's you and me.

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Unorthodox Thesis
I don't know about Norman...but I know I think God is everywhere...ahem thats just my opinion

You are entitled to your opinion, of course. Everyone has views.

Do you believe God is omnipresent, Norman?

I believe strictly in the God of the Hebrews. The God of the Hebrews is physical in appearance and there is nothing in the Bible about actual omni-presence. There are

a few verses which reffer to something of that nature, but those are clearly figurative in meaning. Now, I do believe that God has a Spirit and that Spirit inhabits His followers.

Well if he is omnipresent he isn't just in the sky. He's in the trees, he's in the earth, he's you and me.

I honestly do not know. I do not have enough information about it. If I did, I might consider it. But as far as I know from the scriptures, God's Spirit inhabits his followers, while His physical presence is in space. His coming will by physical in appearance. This will once and for all prove wether He is real or not.

Edited by Norman

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King Triad

and i saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called faithful and true, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war rev 19:11

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Yelekiah

I believe strictly in the God of the Hebrews. The God of the Hebrews is physical in appearance There are

a few verses which reffer to something of that nature, but those are clearly figurative in meaning. Now, I do believe that God has a Spirit and that Spirit inhabits His followers.

How do you know that the physical isn't figurative for attributes of God?

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Beckys_Mom

and i saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called faithful and true, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war rev 19:11

If I was to ask you to point towards heaven which way would you point..up down left right?

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Unorthodox Thesis
and i saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called faithful and true, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war rev 19:11

He is coming from the sky, makes war upon mankind, and mankind will reject Him, just as they did 2000 years ago. The Bible describes the Coming in many ways. Wether it be a cloud, a chariot, a barn or a white horse, He is coming in the sky, and this time He's packing some heat. His coming will be so great that it will blot out the one third of the sun.

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Unorthodox Thesis
How do you know that the physical isn't figurative for attributes of God?

Because the Bible was not written by a bunch of people who imagined a God, but who saw a God in the sky. I did not say that God was physical in appearance. Moses, Ezekiel, Daniel and Jhon said that. I did not say that God needed a physical presence. God told Moses that. If you over do it, and try too hard to interpret scripture, you will inevitably read inbetween the lines. However, there are no lines to read inbetween in. It is not vauge. It is crystal clear to me. God has many sides, some of which are spiritual, and one of which is physical.

Edited by Norman

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Yelekiah

I did not say that God was physical in appearance.

*You* didn't, but you believe in that God, which I quoted. So, do you believe he is physical in appearance literally or not? :hmm:

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Unorthodox Thesis
*You* didn't, but you believe in that God, which I quoted. So, do you believe he is physical in appearance literally or not?

I only believe that becuase the scriptures say that. I believe in the scriptures. I have studied the scriptures and so, I feel convinced that I believe the truth. This is my own statment, and my faith of the truth does not require anyone else to agree with me. So, I am not discarding your faith. I just want to know where everyone stands in their faith, and most importantly... why. becuase the pastor told you? :lol: The pastor has not seen God for himself. If he did, then he would be prophet like the ones in the scriptures. The difference is that they SAW God. We currently do not. Why? Because His physical presence is not here among us. I believe that the Bible is the product of a visual experience.

Numbers 9:15-23

15 Now on the day that the tabernacle was raised up, the cloud covered the tabernacle, the tent of the Testimony; from evening until morning it was above the tabernacle like the appearance of fire.

16 So it was always: the cloud covered it by day, and the appearance of fire by night.

17 Whenever the cloud was taken up from above the tabernacle, after that the children of Israel would journey; and in the place where the cloud settled, there the children of Israel would pitch their tents.

18 At the command of the LORD the children of Israel would journey, and at the command of the LORD they would camp; as long as the cloud stayed above the tabernacle they remained encamped.

19 Even when the cloud continued long, many days above the tabernacle, the children of Israel kept the charge of the LORD and did not journey.

20 So it was, when the cloud was above the tabernacle a few days: according to the command of the LORD they would remain encamped, and according to the command of the LORD they would journey.

21 So it was, when the cloud remained only from evening until morning: when the cloud was taken up in the morning, then they would journey; whether by day or by night, whenever the cloud was taken up, they would journey.

22 Whether it was two days, a month, or a year that the cloud remained above the tabernacle, the children of Israel would remain encamped and not journey; but when it was taken up, they would journey.

23 At the command of the LORD they remained encamped, and at the command of the LORD they journeyed; they kept the charge of the LORD, at the command of the LORD by the hand of Moses.

Ezekiel 1:2-4

2 On the fifth day of the month, which was in the fifth year of King Jehoiachin's captivity,

3 the word of the LORD came expressly to Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the River Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was upon him there.

4 Then I looked, and behold, a whirlwind was coming out of the north, a great cloud with raging fire engulfing itself; and brightness was all around it and radiating out of its midst like the color of amber, out of the midst of the fire.

(NKJ)

John 14:9

Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

(NKJ)

Genesis 12:7

Then the LORD appeared to Abram and said, "To your descendants I will give this land." And there he built an altar to the LORD, who had appeared to him.

(NKJ)

Lev 9:23-24

23 And Moses and Aaron went into the tabernacle of meeting, and came out and blessed the people. Then the glory of the LORD appeared to all the people,

24 and fire came out from before the LORD and consumed the burnt offering and the fat on the altar. When all the people saw it, they shouted and fell on their faces.

(NKJ) - (btw: here we even see what is described as fire coming down from the sky)

2 Chr 3:1

1 Now Solomon began to build the house of the LORD at Jerusalem on Mount Moriah, where the LORD had appeared to his father David, at the place that David had prepared on the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite.

(NKJ) (there was a location where the appearance took place)

Exodus 16:10

10 Now it came to pass, as Aaron spoke to the whole congregation of the children of Israel, that they looked toward the wilderness, and behold, the glory of the LORD appeared in the cloud.

(NKJ)

and hundreds more if you need any.

Edited by Norman

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Yelekiah

So is that literal belief for you...figurative??? How do you know they weren't being figurative as in God's attributes?

You didn't answer my question. :no:

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King Triad

i could be wrong but when christ supposedly returns isnt he supposed to be the embodiment of god . as a physical human being ...

Edited by King Triad

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Yelekiah

It's like saying do you like red or blue better, and you say yes. :lol:

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Unorthodox Thesis
So is that literal belief for you...figurative??? How do you know they weren't being figurative as in God's attributes?

I did answer your question. The Bible describes the physical attributes of God, and since it associates His appearance with physical attributes, I can only assume that it is literal. Then, of course, there are many eye witnesses who saw God with their physical eyes. Yes, physical eyes. :blink: what did you think? spiritual eyes?

i could be wrong but when christ supposedly returns isnt he supposed to be the embodiment of god . as a physical human being ...

That is very interesting that you should say that. See, in the New Testament, Jesus declares Himself to be the Son of God, where He also claimed that He was the same God who brought them out of Egypt. It is the idea of the trinity that makes everything confusing. There is only 1 god-head, His name is Elowah, the same being who became Jesus Chrsit.

John 1:1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

(NKJ)

John 1:14

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

(NKJ)

In many other places we see that God Himself became Jesus. There is no "second person" There is God, and there is His Spirit. The Elohym is the plural of Elowah. He is called Father, once mortal, called the Son of God becuase He was a son of man and God. Also since we are all heirs, we are gods as well.

Psalms 82:6

6 I said, "You are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High.

The easiest way to think about God is this: He is our great, great grand Father. (but He is greater than that) Think of your biological Father. You are his son. you look like him. He had a father too. it all goes back to the god-head. Elowah, the creator.

(NKJ)

Edited by Norman

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Unorthodox Thesis

Also, the eye witnesses do not say that God lives in the sky just to throw us off. No, He really does dwell in the heavens as the Bible says. When it reffers to the Most High, it literally means... Above. High above the earth.

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Yelekiah

Bible describes the physical attributes of God, and since it associates His appearance with physical attributes, I can only assume that it is literal. Then, of course, there are many eye witnesses who saw God with their physical eyes. Yes, physical eyes. :blink: what did you think? spiritual eyes?

Tsk, tsk. You of all people should know how Hebrew works. It's not always meant to be taken literally. Eyes in Hebrew is 'ayin, which also means knowledge, amongst other things. So in Genesis when it said that Adam and Eve's *eyes* were opened, it was not literal. It meant that they were enlightened, because they ate of the fruit of the Tree of *Knowledge*. So if it were to say they saw God with their eyes, it could easily mean they *knew* God because they read his word. Do you think a bush was literally burning? Do you think a snake literally ate dust for the rest of his days in the Book of Genesis, Norman? Adam means of the red earth, he was made of dust. Adam in other languages is life blood, blood clot, etc. So the snake was eating flesh and blood for the rest of his days. Which is true. Snakes eat mammals. You can't take everything literally. The bulk of the Bible is poetic. And it's best to get the original Hebrew, which is full of symbolism.

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Unorthodox Thesis
You of all people should know how Hebrew works.

Yes, I do know how hebrew works. Btw: thanks for pointing out the defenitions.

All these clouds, whirlwinds, pillars, vessels, chariots and pavilions are seen hovering in, coming down from or rising into heaven. The thunders, trumpets and voices that are heard are heard from heaven. All the men who leave the ground and all the angels and metallic, glowing beings that come down to the ground do so either to, or from, heaven. All the lightnings, streams of fire, brimstone and other destructive things mentioned have their origin in heaven. Even wars are fought in heaven. Since all these things are seen in relationship to heaven, the way the word ‘heaven’ is used is the key to understanding these phenomenon and must be explained. The word heaven is used over 700 times in the Bible. In the Old Testament ‘heaven’ is translated almost exclusively from two different words. The Hebrew word 'shamayim' which is defined as ‘the sky', the place where the clouds and stars are, or 'shamayin', the Aramaic word of the same definition.

In the Old Testament ‘heaven’ is translated from other words only five times in the following verses:

Psalms 68:4 it is translated from the Hebrew, arabah, ‘ the desert ‘

77:18 the word is galgal, Hebrew for ‘ wheel or whirlwind '

89:6 & 37 where it is translated from the word shachaq, Hebrew for ‘ powder or thin vapor ’.

Isaiah 5:30 heaven is translated from ariyph, Hebrew for ‘ the sky ‘

The New Testament defines ‘heaven’ from the Greek word ‘ouranos’ meaning ‘the sky’ in all but 7 instances :

Philippians 2:10 Greek epouranos, ‘ above the sky, celestial ‘

Revelation 8:13, 14:6, 19:1, 11, 14, and 17 from the Greek word mesouranema, meaning mid-sky

The infrequency of the word ‘sky‘ in the Bible must also be looked at in the overall study of this concept. The words sky or skies only appear 12 times in all 66 books. The words for things that normally appear in the sky such as clouds, stars, whirlwinds, storms, lightning, birds, rain, hail and wind appear over 600 times. Heaven is the word the translators of the King James Bible in the early 1600's purposefully translated into the original words biblical authors used for the physical sky and not some ethereal plane. The King James Bible was translated for King James of England who lived in a royal castle, surrounded by royal people, all speaking a royal language; a very proper form of court English.The Court English employed entirely different words to describe things, thus,confusing the commoners as to the meaning of certain words. You was thee, raiment was clothing and sky was heaven. Therefore, in all but the above noted instances, the word heaven should be read as sky. Heaven is the sky and sky fits in every instance. Heaven is not the place with the 'pearly gates' or the 'streets of gold ' as the pulpit would have you believe. That is the new Jerusalem and is described in Revelation. Heaven is not said to be a reward for paying your tithes or a final destination for certain church members. Heaven is where God flies, the same place the birds fly. Heaven is where God lives because that is where his throne is and his throne flies. And if any more proof is needed just consider the inheritance of the beatitudes. "The meek shall inherit the Earth", not heaven. The heaven of the pulpit is a simplistic, human conceptualization not a Biblically based reality.

Heaven is the place God lives according to the Bible. If you think that it is figurative, then believe it. It is not a new concept. :hmm: Oh, btw: you can thank Patrick Cooke, the author of bibleufo.com for the brief description on the King James.

Edited by Norman

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Yelekiah

Heaven is the place God lives according to the Bible. If you think that it is figurative, then believe it. It is not a new concept.

It's funny how now you are talking about heaven, when that wasn't my original question. It was about God being a physical entity. Which you assumed was to be taken literally.

Heaven is where God is thought to reside in the Book of Enoch, which was removed from the Bible. And this also includes angels with a free will. "Lucifer" fell from heaven, although the name is a mistranslation, etc. However, he descended into the bottomless pit, which some call hell. Or a grave in Hebrew. Which again, isn't literal. Because it means you are cut off from God, a spiritual death. And it is the same in the Book of Genesis, when Adam and Eve "die", which is a spiritual death, not a literal one.

Don't take everything literally is all I have to say. The "physical God" (what I was aiming at earlier :yes: ) could very well be figurative attributes.

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King Triad

you guys are good nice posts!! :tu::tu:

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ShaunZero

Well if he is omnipresent he isn't just in the sky. He's in the trees, he's in the earth, he's you and me.

What would you call something that CAN be everywhere at once if they chose, but is not everywhere 24/7? Does that qualify for omnipresent? If so, then God isn't nessesarily me and you.

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Yelekiah

I guess it wouldn't qualify. I don't know if there is a word for that...what? Quasi-omnipresent? :P

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ShaunZero

But then the entire situation is odd. When he chooses to be everywhere, you can call him omnipresent, but then when he chooses to be only one place at a time, or just a few, you can't. O_o

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Paranoid Android

Or in true paradoxical nature, God could be everywhere and nowhere and one specific place, all at once. Why? Because he/she/it is God :tu:

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hadeka

Everywhere

GOD is perfect

So he doesnt belong to space and time

He doesnt belong to any laws he has created

I mean, the place he exists in, doesnt have borders and barries.

So, he is higher than to be in everywhere.

Because everywhere (whatever it is) will have borders.

so he doesnt have borders

he created space and time, so he doesnt belong to them

GOD is higher than to be everywhere or in any specific place.

ever thought that:

People see God every day.... They just don't recognize him.

?!!

think about it.

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Beckys_Mom

God is in my heart....I know that sounds soppy but it's how I feel...I pray to God every day and even if my prayers don't get answered I don't think he has turned his back on me I wont turn on him...he gave me the most precious thing ever and that was my child.....for that I am truley thankful.

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