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Gwyny

Why Doesn't he come out

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Beckys_Mom

Yelekiah, I agree with all that, but when it comes down to God's dwelling place, it is the sky, and that is meant literally.

Just because it is written doesn't make it so

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Unorthodox Thesis
Just because it is written doesn't make it so

Well, then, why not deny the rest of scripture all togather? :sleepy: This leaves us with pastors who use their own opinions to explain God. It is all derived from the Scriptures. The text you claim is't credible of truth. Listen to your pastors then! :rolleyes: They'll be sure to give you good answers which appeal to you your mental "picture" of man-made diety. I do not need a pastor to tell me about God. The Lord is my Sheperd and I shall not want. :tu: Edited by Norman

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Yelekiah

Yelekiah, I agree with all that, but when it comes down to God's dwelling place, it is the sky, and that is meant literally.

You still didn't answer me where you draw the line between what is literal and what is meatphorical. Let me point this out what I wrote.

And you should know that Hebrew is very symbolic. I discussed that earlier with Adam, adama-red earth. He is made of dust, he will return to dust, dust is his flesh. Aw-Dawm is life blood, flesh, the Sumerians used it to mean blood clot. For the snake to eat dust is *not* literal dust, it is flesh, flesh of mammals.

You were saying that other than parables, proverbs, etc. it was meant to be taken literally. I mean come on, are you kidding me? A bulk of the Bible is metaphorical.

Such as the Beasts in Daniel and the little horn (which is thought to be the Antichrist). And the goat gives power to the little horn. Also, dying in Genesis, was not literal. So you can't really exclude that. I'm just trying to point out that a lot of it could be symbolic for God's glory, that's all. :tu:

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Beckys_Mom

Well, then, why not deny the rest of scripture all togather? :wacko: This leaves us with pastors who use their own opinions to explain God. It is all derived from the Scriptures. The text you claim is't credible of truth. Listen to your pastors then! :rolleyes: They'll be sure to give you good answers which appeal to you your mental "picture" of man-made diety.

I don't have a pastor or a priest for that matter as I don't believe in going to a church....my faith in God is within myself....pastors & priest will tell you what is in the bible and I don't believe all that has been re-written in some book either......About giving me answers no one is fit enough to do that unless they have proof...and if the only proof they have is from some book...they can keep it...I am not that easy laid up the garden path :rolleyes: I follow my own heart and my own rules ;) But if you want to be a wise guy about it :sleepy: go ahead I could use the info I have trouble sleeping anyway

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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Yelekiah

Also Norman, you said you don't follow the pulpit.

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Beckys_Mom

Also Norman, you said you don't follow the pulpit.

Yea and he also said God doesn't exsist :hmm:

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Unorthodox Thesis
Such as the Beasts in Daniel and the little horn (which is thought to be the Antichrist). And the goat gives power to the little horn.

That is considered, by many, to be prophetic scripture. :yes:

Beckys_Mom, I apologize for giving you trouble. I said that statment because, if you want to be honest, I do not think that your god is real. You clearly identified your god excluded from the pages of the Bible. I believe that the God of the Bible is real though. And as for those dull thinkers who think that they do believe in the Bible, yet calim that God does not live in the sky, I will not hesitate to expose their flaws in their ideologies. :tu:

Edited by Norman

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Unorthodox Thesis
Also Norman, you said you don't follow the pulpit.

You are also right in that. I do not believe their sayings because it is not based on a biblical reality.

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Beckys_Mom

That is considered, by many, to be prophetic scripture. :yes:

Beckys_Mom, I apologize for giving you trouble. I said that statment because, if you want to be honest, I do not think that your god is real. I believe that the God of the Bible is real though. And as for those dull thinkers who think that they do believe in the Bible, yet calim that God does not live in the sky, I will not hesitate to expose their flaws in their ideologies. :tu:

No problem...it's much nicer when you disagree without the sarcasim

Well I would go as far as to call them dull thinkers as it's their choice, I don't agree with the bible or church but I question those that do not to get a kick out of it but because I find it intresting...I also find it intresting when someone such as yourself claims not to believe yet can quote stuff from the bible and say that God lives in the sky cuz the book says so...no offence but thats a lil weird and at the same time intresting :yes:

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Yelekiah

Yea and he also said God doesn't exsist :hmm:

Interesting...

That is considered, by many, to be prophetic scripture.

Did you completely miss my Genesis quote? That certainly was not prophetic. :no:

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Beckys_Mom

Darn it Yel you do move fast lol

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Yelekiah

You are also right in that. I do not believe their sayings because it is not based on a biblical reality.

Explain.

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Unorthodox Thesis

Yel, I saw your Genesis quote. Very interesting. Notice how I do not try to complicate it more by trying to explain it or ask questions about its authenticity. Very good research you've got there! I believe in the God of the Bible because I believe that the testimony of the Word of God is true. This is my personal belief and I am aware that many consider this faith to be very trivial. Beckys_Mom, I think that we are all entitled to our opinions. When I quote from the Bible, I quote directly from the Word of God in whom I believe in with all of my heart. When people like to discredit this faith, or point out misinterpretations by the church or an accepted doctrine, I wish to stand up for what I believe in and show these people that they are wrong.

Heaven, incorrectly thought to be a divine retirement home, which is vaguely located somewhere "up there", and "the kingdom", also incorrectly thought to be a "place", are inappropriately labeled as the destination we go "to" if we do whatever the pulpit says to do to "get" there. The Bible completely contradicts this concept. The prophecy "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth." (Matthew 5:5), is very clear about the true inheritance of those who seek his promise, not heaven but the planet. These two verses show that the Christ not only considered meekness an essential part of his own personality, but that it is also a spiritual trait of great value: "Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls." (Matthew 11:29) "But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price." (I Peter 3:4)

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Unorthodox Thesis
Explain.

All these clouds, whirlwinds, pillars, vessels, chariots and pavilions mentioned in the Bible are seen hovering in, coming down from or rising into heaven. The thunders, trumpets and voices that are heard are heard from heaven. All the men who leave the ground and all the angels and metallic, glowing beings that come down to the ground do so either to, or from, heaven. All the lightnings, streams of fire, brimstone and other destructive things mentioned have their origin in heaven. Even wars are fought in heaven. Since all these things are seen in relationship to heaven, the way the word ‘heaven’ is used is the key to understanding these phenomenon and must be explained. The word heaven is used over 700 times in the Bible. In the Old Testament ‘heaven’ is translated almost exclusively from two different words. The Hebrew word 'shamayim' which is defined as ‘the sky', the place where the clouds and stars are, or 'shamayin', the Aramaic word of the same definition.

The infrequency of the word ‘sky‘ in the Bible must also be looked at in the overall study of this concept. The words sky or skies only appear 12 times in all 66 books. The words for things that normally appear in the sky such as clouds, stars, whirlwinds, storms, lightning, birds, rain, hail and wind appear over 600 times. Heaven is the word the translators of the King James Bible in the early 1600's purposefully translated into the original words biblical authors used for the physical sky and not some ethereal plane. The King James Bible was translated for King James of England who lived in a royal castle, surrounded by royal people, all speaking a royal language; a very proper form of court English.

The Court English employed entirely different words to describe things, thus,confusing the commoners as to the meaning of certain words. You was thee, raiment was clothing and sky was heaven. Therefore, in all but the above noted instances, the word heaven should be read as sky. Heaven is the sky and sky fits in every instance. Heaven is not the place with the 'pearly gates' or the 'streets of gold ' as the pulpit would have you believe. That is the new Jerusalem and is described in Revelation. Heaven is not said to be a reward for paying your tithes or a final destination for certain church members. Heaven is where God flies, the same place the birds fly. Heaven is where God lives because that is where his throne is and his throne flies. And if any more proof is needed just consider the inheritance of the beatitudes. "The meek shall inherit the Earth", not heaven. The heaven of the pulpit is a simplistic, human conceptualization not a Biblically based reality.

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Unorthodox Thesis
Darn it Yel you do move fast lol

He is also exhausting. I cannot write anymore faster than this!!!! :w00t:

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Yelekiah

Yel, I saw your Genesis quote. Very interesting. Notice how I do not try to complicate it more by trying to explain it or ask questions about its authenticity. Very good research you've got there! I believe in the God of the Bible because I believe that the testimony of the Word of God is true.

Ever read anything on Kabbalah? I just think there is beauty in the symbolism and the complexity. Some believe that God thinks in numbers, and that's why music can be so harmonious, it's the mind of God. Things like the Sepher Yetzirah get into figurative meanings, like the Sephiroth appearing out of nothing, God coming from nothing in the form of a bolt of lightning. The "appearance" of God essentially. But the thing is, when you get into reading Kabbalah and the Bible you realize that not all of it is mean to be taken literally. The lightning bolt is a symbol of fire and direction, which also has all the divine names of God within it. Words. Words in Hebrew are so fascinating, because they are not just words. They are objects they are numbers, they are sounds. But it is all the same to God. So when I read the Bible, I try to notice where to draw the line (between literal and metaphorical) and see the divinity in the representations. Poetry after all, is very beautiful in my opinion.

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Beckys_Mom

So you can translate Hebrew then>

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1667832

God thinks in numbers? Do you mean mathematically? Cause if so, that would make sense. Life on earth all revolves around numbers. Its a universal language.

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Yelekiah

So you can translate Hebrew then>

No, I'm thinking of getting a Hebrew Bible, I've read some of it. I know a few words in Hebrew and I've read Kabbalistic texts. A lot of info on numbers and their symbolism.

Like 4 is daleth, a door. A door means a choice to open up to your spirituality.

God thinks in numbers? Do you mean mathematically? Cause if so, that would make sense. Life on earth all revolves around numbers. Its a universal language.

Definitely, like Fibonacci, it's in so much of nature. Really fascinating.

And in Hebrew God's ancient name is 26 which adds to 8, according to Hebrew numerology (Gematria). And 8 mathematically is infinity. God is thought to be infinite. And Jesus' name is 888 in Gematria.

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Beckys_Mom

No, I'm thinking of getting a Hebrew Bible, I've read some of it. I know a few words in Hebrew and I've read Kabbalistic texts. A lot of info on numbers and their symbolism.

Like 4 is daleth, a door. A door means a choice to open up to your spirituality.

Definitely, like Fibonacci, it's in so much of nature. Really fascinating.

And in Hebrew God's ancient name is 26 which adds to 8, according to Hebrew numerology (Gematria). And 8 mathematically is infinity. God is thought to be infinite. And Jesus' name is 888 in Gematria.

This may sound silly but is there a great difference between Hebrew and acient hebrew?

If I where as keen as you where I would definitely take it up and seek out (if it where possible) an acient bible written in hebrew but I doubt that would be easy

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Yelekiah

This may sound silly but is there a great difference between Hebrew and acient hebrew?

Well a lot of the Old Testament was written in "classical" Hebrew. However, it was translated to Greek, and then to Old English. Like we have the King James Version which is more modern. But what if something were lost in translation? Lucifer for example was a mistranslation and not Hebrew. The Red Sea is really the Reed Sea. I just want it for its purity. Modern Hebrew is different, however. It'll be an interesting journey.

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Beckys_Mom

It sure would.

There ya go I didn't know the Red Sea was really the Reed Sea...you learn something knew everyday.

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King Triad

alot of the bible could have been changed during the rewrites....only god knows

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Beckys_Mom

alot of the bible could have been changed during the rewrites....only god knows

It has :blink:

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Yelekiah

There ya go I didn't know the Red Sea was really the Reed Sea...you learn something knew everyday.

Right but why is this still in the Bible? That's what I mean, it's known that it is incorrect, but it's not fixed for all Bibles. Many things were added and removed.

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