Possible Evidence

[Wombat]

Someone should make a video very similar to that one, except they also pour a bunch of crushed lead particles on the surface to show that the influence of magnetism never occurs. They should also have a thermometer closeby too. AND... they should test/demonstrate the properties of both. For example: pour the lead particles onto the surface and then run a magnet close by to show that they are indeed attracted to the magnet. And the thermometer can easily be tested.

Lead is not attracted by magnets. You probably mean iron filings.

It should basically be done in a vaccuum.

[IceStorm]

Lead is not attracted by magnets. You probably mean iron filings.

It should basically be done in a vaccuum.

because we all have access to a vaccuum daily

[kariudo115]

hey wombat, make a video yourself of everything you think that it could be in its most mild form, such as placing your hands next to the jar and make it spin... this would clear this up once and for all--if your hands dont move it, well, then come up with another explination, because really, i think you have no idea what you're talking about and are just going with the mainstream idea

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

because we all have access to a vaccuum daily

You do. Wow.

[Wombat]

because we all have access to a vaccuum daily

Did I say we have access to vaccuum?

These sorts of things should be done by professionals who know what they are doing, under impartial and controlled conditions, not by random people on youtube.

hey wombat, make a video yourself of everything you think that it could be in its most mild form, such as placing your hands next to the jar and make it spin... this would clear this up once and for all--if your hands dont move it, well, then come up with another explination,

There is no necessity for me to do this, because it is already know that these types of factors can cause a wheel to spin (plus I don't have a video camera >_<).

because really, i think you have no idea what you're talking about and are just going with the mainstream idea

The stuff I am talking about is simple physics which I learnt in school at the age of 14, not rocket science. It coincides with the mainstream ideas because they are also based on facts

Edited July 16, 2006 by Wombat

[kariudo115]

funny, because i dont do TK, and i put a psi-wheel in a jar and placed my hands around it... it didnt move at all...

the heat explination works when ur hands are next to it when its out in the open, but at least what experiments i have done heat doesnt work when its in a jar

[IceStorm]

today i tried to put a pin inside the jar, same setup as the video, and had a magnet under the table trying to see about this theory and nothing happened and as for the heat under the table... really i had nothing to put under the table to heat it up that much so i couldnt test that one out.

[kraken]

I have viewed this video a couple times and have looked for a simple way to debunk it from a skeptics point of view, but I am finding it hard too find a simple solution to disprove it. I myself am becoming a beliver through personal experiences and have looked at these experiences in retrospect to find any evidence that would disprove the event in question.

If you have any solutions I would like to hear them.

I thought i would give this a little go..but in order for it to work (and look effective) i just had to make the top glass slightly lifted on my side..so that it left a tiny slit(to blow under) and when i blew down to the left side of the gap-the piece of paper rotated clockwise and when i blew down to the right side of the gap-it rotated anticlockwise, bearing in mind we couldn't see the guys face as he was doing the trick, so i don't know if he was blowing or not....but having said that, i couldnt see if the guy had left a small slit to blow under either, so i can't say if he did it the same way as me or not, but it looked just as effective..(hope that helps)

Edited July 17, 2006 by kraken

[Wombat]

today i tried to put a pin inside the jar, same setup as the video, and had a magnet under the table trying to see about this theory and nothing happened and as for the heat under the table... really i had nothing to put under the table to heat it up that much so i couldnt test that one out.

Paper isn't magnetic.

funny, because i dont do TK, and i put a psi-wheel in a jar and placed my hands around it... it didnt move at all...

the heat explination works when ur hands are next to it when its out in the open, but at least what experiments i have done heat doesnt work when its in a jar

Same here... hmm

Edited July 17, 2006 by Wombat

[IceStorm]

sorry wombat i was trying to say that earlier in this topic someone said that a magnet could have been used to rotate the wheel because it was a metal pin... so i tried to do that and it had no affect.

[Blizno]

I don't remember seeing it change direction. It always seemed to go in the same direction but it started and stopped. Heating the underside of the table to heat the upper jar and make convection currents wouldn't be practical. It would take a lot of heat and would be very slow to act. I think the possibility that there was a gap under the jar and the actor blew at the gap makes the most sense. I thought about a small hole drilled near the top of the jar that he blew at but it would be easier to have a gap under the jar.

Magnets are still an option as long as you have a little bit of magnetic material attached to the paper. It wouldn't take much if the person under the table was moving a strong magnet.

[kariudo115]

a strong magnet, even a small one, would topple the psi-wheel-ive tried it, and unless you have a small magnet on 4 sides, so it balances perfectly, it would be difficult...i tried that one too...

ima take a look at the video again and see if i can find any holes in the glass or anything...

EDIT: im going to show this video to my dad... he was a wiccan high priest, but does not take BS evidence for this stuff... he has figured out most of chris angels stuff, so this should be a piece of cake

Edited July 18, 2006 by kariudo115

[Fastjack]

Instead of people saying if it is true or not why not any of you do a expirament and post the video on the board and see if it is true or not! I personaly think that was neat but still does not show telekinesis. real evidence can come from when a person does the same thing at about 10 ft or more away that is when I will say wow.

[ai_guardian]

I'm afraid Blizno has got the technique. I thought of that in fact when I first watched the vid (which was today). If you care to look again there is a moulded manufacturer etc. extruded stamp on the bottom of the large bowl When the beaker is placed on the top it leaves a less than a millimetre gap between the two surfaces. Enough to create turbulance for the paper to spin if you blow at the surface of the larger bowl.

I have just reproduced the whole thing in less than 5 minutes and guess what - the thing spins when I blow as desribed above. I must have psi powers, NOT!

Oh well, so much for that one...

Cheers

Edited October 4, 2006 by ai_guardian

[Raviaan_in_DC]

I am pretty sure it has something to do with static electricity.

If I had to guess, which is all i can do.. i'm with you.

[dmurdock36]

its just for a visual for us... its easier to see it moving when you have your hand by it, i dont really know why i just know that it helps.

and bio mage, this video was never debunked, you just gave your opinion on it and the only thing that you could come up with was that heat from your hands would create thermals in the air that would rotate the wheel, but how would you go about moving it in different directions?

watched the video and the paper never changes directions go the same direction every time besides that there is a small gap at the bottom fo the top glass that he is blowing through I have pulled this trick on friends myself and it is very convincing but just a trick. You can actually get the paper to change direction just have to blow from a different angle.

[Jjbreen]

I have viewed this video a couple times and have looked for a simple way to debunk it from a skeptics point of view, but I am finding it hard too find a simple solution to disprove it. I myself am becoming a beliver through personal experiences and have looked at these experiences in retrospect to find any evidence that would disprove the event in question.

If you have any solutions I would like to hear them.

This has NOTHING to do with Psi - TK but everything to do with - well first look at the way the object resembles a "fan" and/or Pin Wheel.

Second check out the videos on this site:

http://search.freefind.com/find.html?id=37...query=Psi+Wheel

ALL of them they replicate all the different ways it spins and explains how and why - which have NOTHING to do with TK and/or Psi.

J -

[landscapecontractor]

blizno nailed it.. I'm late to this thread but am familiar with this technique used by so called "people with telekenisis", old news. people have actually been caught red handed using this technique of blowing, or influencing an object by breathing towards it. Try this experiment in a vaccuum sealed jar? I thought not

[NoTC]

because we all have access to a vaccuum daily

Actually, you do... they make containers for keeping food fresh... Believe me, I've stayed up watching infomercials before.

Oh, and the whole TK thing, please stop creating new threads on this... it's the same thing over and over. Many factors come into play. Room temperature is important. If your hands are normal temperature and you're in a cold room, it'll have a better effect. The TK in a jar thing can easily be done with an "unseen" heat source. It's easy enough to replicate.

They have these cute little paperweights you can buy that have a little thing on a pin that will spin in sunlight. Why? HEAT!!!!! And guess what, your hands don't have to be anywhere near the frickin thing!! And you don't even have to look at it. You could point your toe at it, and look away at a cup of iced tea and think of Rome and I guarentee that thing will still spin in the sunlight, and it has NOTHING to do with the human mind!

[Virtual Particle]

Truth is Knightmeir I do not have to go to quotes any intelligent review of your responses in this forum will show that you are about as open to discussion (a pseudo skeptic) as a clam.

Facts are facts Knightmeir you are biased....

Any thoughts?

PS: file a lawsuit against Geller and get back to us

[Jjbreen]

That still doesn't explain the wheel turning in different directions.

A.

The pin-wheel in both attempts move counter clock-wise. It did or does not change direction. Yup, just double checked, moved counter both times.

B.

This does not disprove the heat theory - because as I challenged on another thread - put a 2 hand towels warmed up to 90.0 - 98.6 degrees and apply them at the same hights and distance and sides like the hands were. The pin-wheel will spin just the same.

(Why is this happening - when there is not human connection made? Since we've removed the human/thought equation - that leaves only the heat as the answer to the equation.)

C.

Since this is done supposedly with 'thought/mind' I fail to see where hands are actually needed. In fact, use copper wire, it's conductive. Hold in your hand with your hands 6+ inches from the glass and have the copper wire the 1 to 1/2" from the glass. Gee will it turn?

(This has to be WIRE and not copper pipe. I'll let you figure out the why.)

If with the WIRE it does move then the answer would be:

.....you have a good point to prove NOT HEAT and there is something else at play; ie: thought, mind.

If with the WIRE it does move then the answer would be:

..... then it's not Psi and heat really does play apart in this and it would/will have to be accepted.

HINT:

This has been done repeatedly in a jr. high classroom with all results clearly seen and/or not seen by the various and many students in the science classes. Guess what the answer consistantly was??

I await your results - IF anyone would/will even try this...

J -

Edited October 27, 2006 by Jjbreen

[Blizno]

A.

The pin-wheel in both attempts move counter clock-wise. It did or does not change direction. Yup, just double checked, moved counter both times.

B.

This does not disprove the heat theory - because as I challenged on another thread - put a 1 hand towel warmed up to 90.0 - 98.6 degrees and apply it at the same hights and distance and sides like the hands were. The pin-wheel will spin just the same.

C.

Since this is done supposedly with 'thought/mind' I fail to see where hands are actually needed. In fact, use copper wire, it's conductive. Hold in your hand with your hands 6+ inches from the glass and have the copper wire the 1" from the glass. Gee will it turn?

(This has to be WIRE and not copper pipe. I'll let you figure out the why.)

If with the WIRE it does move then the answer would be:

Yes - then you have a good point to prove NOT HEAT and is something else at play; ie: thought, mind.

If with the WIRE it does move then the answer would be:

No - then it's not Psi and heat really does play apart in this and it would/will have to be accepted.

HINT: This has been done repeatedly in a jr. high classroom with all results clearly seen and/or not seen. Guess what the answer consistantly was??

I await your results - IF anyone would/will even try this...

J -

The wire part assumes that psi is conducted along metal like electricity. There's no reason to think it is. Same with assuming it doesn't need to travel through the hands. The amount of human brain dedicated to moving and feeling through the hands is huge. Maybe the hands are indeed the best channel for psi.

Your points are good but they don't disprove this experiment. We've discussed lots of other ways to achieve the movement that use known forces but we haven't proven that psi isn't happening here.

[Jjbreen]

The wire part assumes that psi is conducted along metal like electricity. There's no reason to think it is.

No reason to think it either way - till its tested.

In fact talking w/an online friend that helps produce EEG machines - copper wire is used to in them to measure the brainwave activity. So there is actually fare evidence that it could very well be considered valid for Psi since Psi is Brain Waves.

Same with assuming it doesn't need to travel through the hands. The amount of human brain dedicated to moving and feeling through the hands is huge. Maybe the hands are indeed the best channel for psi.

This would need to be indeed measured via EMF measurements. Yes there is support to suggest that EMF's do play a big part in Psi abilities.

Your points are good but they don't disprove this experiment. We've discussed lots of other ways to achieve the movement that use known forces but we haven't proven that psi isn't happening here.

But the heated towel test has not been adressed in these groups.

When the pin-wheel moves with towels the same basic size/shape/location and heat output of the hand and the pin-wheel moves. This proves there is NO "Psi" involved, only heat. Now what?

J -

Edited October 27, 2006 by Jjbreen

[mattman]

Hello, im ASmattman from youtube, (mattman from Astral Society). I had stumbled across this website in search of information about convection currents, and how to rule out that possibility in my next video. However, after reading this thread, I noticed that the major concern has to do with a gap under the glass which covers the wheel (something I will most definitely be taking into account for my next video). For those who have said that such a thing works, would you please post a video of it? Considering the burden of proof was initially on me, it’s only fair that the burden of “contrary proof” be on those who advocate it. Wouldn’t you agree? After all, you saying you have debunked my video (without any evidence) is just as ridiculous as me saying I have TK (without any evidence). You know better than that…

The second reason I have come here is to get your advice on how to make a more credible documentation of this phenomena. What would you suggest that I do differently? So far, it has been suggested that I:

-Move the wheel in two directions (which I did not do before)

-Move it without the use of my hands, or have hands much further away from the wheel

-Place small feathers/bit of foam around the wheel as to be reactive to any significant breezes

-seal the container around the wheel somehow

-use a glass table/show under the table

-have a panoramic view of this phenomena in action (camera guy getting different views while im moving the wheel

-show my face/give a real-time commentary while im moving the video,

-etc (refer to the comments at youtube and/or astral society)

What else would you all suggest that I do to eliminate some of your skepticism, given the intrinsic limitations of a video?

[Jjbreen]

Hello, im ASmattman from youtube, (mattman from Astral Society). I had stumbled across this website in search of information about convection currents, and how to rule out that possibility in my next video. However, after reading this thread, I noticed that the major concern has to do with a gap under the glass which covers the wheel (something I will most definitely be taking into account for my next video). For those who have said that such a thing works, would you please post a video of it? Considering the burden of proof was initially on me, it’s only fair that the burden of “contrary proof” be on those who advocate it. Wouldn’t you agree? After all, you saying you have debunked my video (without any evidence) is just as ridiculous as me saying I have TK (without any evidence). You know better than that…

The second reason I have come here is to get your advice on how to make a more credible documentation of this phenomena. What would you suggest that I do differently? So far, it has been suggested that I:

-Move the wheel in two directions (which I did not do before)

-Move it without the use of my hands, or have hands much further away from the wheel

-Place small feathers/bit of foam around the wheel as to be reactive to any significant breezes

-seal the container around the wheel somehow

-use a glass table/show under the table

-have a panoramic view of this phenomena in action (camera guy getting different views while im moving the wheel

-show my face/give a real-time commentary while im moving the video,

-etc (refer to the comments at youtube and/or astral society)

What else would you all suggest that I do to eliminate some of your skepticism, given the intrinsic limitations of a video?

Well all I can say is "good luck" -

I was lucky enough to have a friend (teacher in Highschool) Science class do the pin wheel - and we took a week of various and difffeernt aproaches to it.. .. and yes there were a number of the kids that thought Psi was real and offered their own approaches - failed - but all was done with good fun humor... no one took offence.

Jj -