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Possible Evidence


Astrocreep

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Well all I can say is "good luck" -

I was lucky enough to have a friend (teacher in Highschool) Science class do the pin wheel - and we took a week of various and difffeernt aproaches to it.. .. and yes there were a number of the kids that thought Psi was real and offered their own approaches - failed - but all was done with good fun humor... no one took offence.

Jj -

Thank you for your input, but surely you can understand why that blurb held little relevance to me. Tell you what though, you seem to be one of the more prominate skeptics of my video (or TK videos in general) in this thread. I would appreciate it if you would give me some advice on how to eliminate some of your doubts, because im sure others share some, if not all, of those same doubts. What would you suggest I do differently to make it more credible than it already is?

On a side note, I noticed you mention something about heated towels and the PSI wheel moving. Have you gotten the same results with a glass container over the wheel, and if so, would you please post a video of this? Im interested because I have done something similar (with my hands directly contacting the glass for extended periods of time), but yeilded no movement whatsoever. And, as im sure you are all to familiar with, im going to need a bit more than your word to take what ou are telling me as anything credible. However, as to not be a hypocrit, I wouldnt mind posting a video of my own experimentations if it would be of any value in this discussion. If youd like, ill make a video of me trying to move the psiwheel with only heat, complete with thermometers and all. Fair enough?

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Thank you for your input, but surely you can understand why that blurb held little relevance to me. Tell you what though, you seem to be one of the more prominate skeptics of my video (or TK videos in general) in this thread. I would appreciate it if you would give me some advice on how to eliminate some of your doubts, because im sure others share some, if not all, of those same doubts. What would you suggest I do differently to make it more credible than it already is?

On a side note, I noticed you mention something about heated towels and the PSI wheel moving. Have you gotten the same results with a glass container over the wheel, and if so, would you please post a video of this? Im interested because I have done something similar (with my hands directly contacting the glass for extended periods of time), but yeilded no movement whatsoever. And, as im sure you are all to familiar with, im going to need a bit more than your word to take what ou are telling me as anything credible. However, as to not be a hypocrit, I wouldnt mind posting a video of my own experimentations if it would be of any value in this discussion. If youd like, ill make a video of me trying to move the psiwheel with only heat, complete with thermometers and all. Fair enough?

Here's a way to convince all but the most hardened skeptics and make yourself a cool million bucks as well:

http://www.randi.org/research/index.html

I haven't tried this challenge myself so I can't give too many details, but my understanding is that you and they come up with a test plan that satisfies both of you. Then you run the test according to the plan. If you pass the test according to the rules previously agreed upon by you and them, including agreeing to what constitutes "success", you get the million.

It doesn't seem too hard to come up with a controlled experiment in this case.

Here's a rough suggested plan: You supply the psi wheel. Somebody neutral supplies the container to go over the psi wheel and the table the setup will sit on (to make it difficult to plant magnets or the like in the table). The whole procedure could take place in a suitable location that neither you nor they know about until the day of the test (again, to prevent placing hidden devices). It would be very hard for anyone to prevent the psi wheel from turning once the device is sealed inside the container except by putting "brakes" on it (that's why I suggested that you supply the psi wheel). You should be observing the whole time to make sure nobody puts a drop of super-glue on the psi wheel or anything like that. If you move the psi wheel under those conditions, when you say you'll make it move and in the direction you say it'll move, I can't see how anyone could deny your claim.

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Only few gifted people can do it. They have abilities most common humans cannot duplicate. Just as an example, If I tell them that I wrote this reply without using my fingers they will not believe and will request for proof in lab settings and controled environment. Look ma, no hands.

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Im very aware of the Randi challenge, and will be pursuing that avenue when I feel that I am ready and able to handle what he can throw at me. As of now, im not nearly as consistant as I would like to be, or would need to be in order to pass the Randi Challenge, but im getting better all the time (which is part of the purpose for the videos).

My invitation for suggestions was in regard to the next video I am making. I have gotten a fair amount of feedback about what I should do differently for this second video, but I want to make sure I cover as many bases as I can before I make this second video. This way, I can avoid having to remake this video over and over again.

But heres the deal, there seems to be two types of skeptics; those that are skeptical out of level headedness, and those who are skeptical out of closed-mindedness. The latter tend to be phonomenal after-the-fact critics, and generally speaking, offer little-to-no constructive criticism. The former are much different in the sense that the skepticsm they contribute is not simply bad mouthing or the ever popular "drive by" (where some schmo talks a little pseudo-sceintific crap then runs away before I have a chance to defend myself). The level headed skeptic is different in the sense that he gives the other person an honest chance at making a case, and thus contributes constructive criticism to aid this endeavor. The closed-minded skeptic has made his mind up before giving anyone a fair chance at anything, and this is why you see people jumping to conclusions based off of insuffient information. A common manifestation of this is the "if you have seen one TK video, you've seen them all" type of attitude. Or, one that I find particularly annoying, is the skeptic who weilds science in non-sceintific ways simply to be a more effective cynic, not to be less niave about the world.

I will be making a new video today that explores convection currents and PSI wheels, as well as convection currents and covered PSI wheels. Anyone who has done any actual experimentation with convection currentsfrom ones hand, and how that minute amount of heat effects a covered (not exposed) PSI wheel would already know how absurd such an accusation is. And this is why I am making this video, so that people dont confuse the effect of convection currents on exposed PSI wheels and the effect of convection wheels on covered PSI wheels.

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You can view this video here:

Please feel free to ask questions or make comments. I also reccomend, to those whom it may concern, that they duplicate this experiment. And if it would be possible to film it, that would be a plus...especially if your results significantly vary from my own.

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ALL of them they replicate all the different ways it spins and explains how and why - which have NOTHING to do with TK and/or Psi.

Well, if you think about it. Even if I really could move objects with my mind, I'm sure someone could replicate it with natural means, but that wouldn't make what I did any less real. Nonetheless, I don't believe this is psi, just due to the nature of all of these psi videos.

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Anyone who has done any actual experimentation with convection currentsfrom ones hand, and how that minute amount of heat effects a covered (not exposed) PSI wheel would already know how absurd such an accusation is

Do you have any idea how many high school students have done this very same experiment? Give it up already, holding on to psiwheels as your only means to prove telekinetic powers shows you really don't have any and are just exploiting simple science to try and fool people. Why don't you move a piece of tissue paper instead.

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If successful in PSI Wheel Proceed to heavier objects.

Don't let skeptics hinder your efforts in X abilities.

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Great find. And no matter wat Skeptics say. We shall never prove to them it is possible.

You can view this video here:

Please feel free to ask questions or make comments. I also reccomend, to those whom it may concern, that they duplicate this experiment. And if it would be possible to film it, that would be a plus...especially if your results significantly vary from my own.

No matter how hard he trys to heat that up it doesn't move and I doubt human hands could raise it to that heat in a matter of seconds unless once again they prove science is wrong.

Edited by virusdeath0
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Great find. And no matter wat Skeptics say. We shall never prove to them it is possible.

No matter how hard he trys to heat that up it doesn't move and I doubt human hands could raise it to that heat in a matter of seconds unless once again they prove science is wrong.

Another ignorant post. Do some research please.

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Have. Ignorant skeptic.

Edited by virusdeath0
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If you had done your research you would know that this link has been posted over and over again and the is it's an illusion, a magic trick which magician's perform all the time. I know because I sometimes perform them.

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It gets the point? How do long sentences get the point? They must be pretty clever.

Enough of this guy, can we get someone who speaks english please.

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Great find. And no matter wat Skeptics say. We shall never prove to them it is possible.

No matter how hard he trys to heat that up it doesn't move and I doubt human hands could raise it to that heat in a matter of seconds unless once again they prove science is wrong.

a.-

That is not a 'great find' - actually that has been posted so many times before in UM - that this is really "old news" by now. :sleepy:

b.-

It does not 'prove' anything at all - except that people can look on the internet and find entertaining videos. :yes:

c.-

Why do not people like us "skeptics" to ask questions?? Are you afraid of questions? Yes and it's not the question you dislike - it's the answer that you fear :cry:

d. -

As I have stated in another thread - I find it sad, that the 'believers' in this have to look desperately else where to vague and in this case videos that are not understood what is being said. :wacko:

... Do you honestly understand this language? Do you honestly know what is being said?? How do you know he didn't say something against "Silly Americans" that want to believe this 'crap'?? You do not... You do not know anything of what he is saying. Not good idea to present something that even you, if you are honest - have no clue what is being said. :hmm:

e. -

Here is the bottom line:

... Why is it, that none of you personally can or will step up to the plate and prove this yourself? -you cannot - :cry:

... If your life specifically cannot support this belief, you cannot deliver the 'goods' - why do you expect us to accept what you yourself cannot deliver?? :o

f.

This video specifically.

...... First why the table cloth?? (In videos like this they 'cover' what??

...... Why the board for the bowl on top of the table cloth. Why didn't they just remove the table cloth??

...... What is the difference between a magician "Look here" (while he does some 'over there' ) and yellings?? What I find funny on a number of accoutnts.

-- the 'master' looks several times down toward the base of the table he is facing. What is at the base of the table that is so important that he looks there?? Oh the legs might break from his yelling? :blink:

-- the 'master' had to 'yell' a couple of times to get the bowl to move?

-- Why are we yelling? - this is done with the 'hand & mind' not the mouth. :huh:

He yells, simply put, to distract you from looking where you should not. But I do look, especially when the camera is not conviently zoomed in. (Shadow movement UNDER THE TABLE!) :ph34r:

Well I'm the "skeptic" so I guess my questions are not accepted as valid. Or maybe it's you do not like the answers that my questions raise??? :hmm:

The biggest question of all - WHY are any of you looking 'here and there' for your proof for us? WHy is it that YOU cannot and will not step up?? That is the question..... :yes:

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You know -

For dialog sake only - My above post and questions still very much stand.... that like when asked in prior thread - get excused:

But -

For dialog sake only - Let's suppose by some slim chance that this is not 'mystic illusion'.

a the guy is 85 years old according to the 'side line'

b . the guy is of obvious oriental heritage.

c. the guy is accredited of being a 'qui gong' "master".

So let's take the facts as they are stated:

So to come to this point of being able to do 'this' - you would have to be;

the rip age of 85

of oriental heritage

and a 'master of qui gong'

It would have to be 3 out of 3 - because no one has shown they have 'mastered' this anywhere on this board! < - proof? Everyone that claims or believes this: LOOKS SOME WHERE ELSE FOR THE PROOF! THEY DO NOT PROVE IT WITH THEIR OWN LIFE! Yes actually this is proof. No one on UM will step forward and submit valid evidence - they run to oriental video on the internet for their proof!

So see all you believers when you are 85 and of oriental heritage and a "qui gong master"

Again - good luck!

Edited by Jjbreen
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Whoa, this thread kind of exploded, didnt it? This is the video you are talking about, isn’t it Jjbreen?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=NAJ1KU9bqNk

By the sounds of it, you are not describing my video at all. Im not 85, there is no table cloth, I’m not oriental in the slightest, and I don’t know anything about any qui gong. lol. Im beginning to feel like a fool. Is my video even on this thread anywhere??

Do you have any idea how many high school students have done this very same experiment? Give it up already, holding on to psiwheels as your only means to prove telekinetic powers shows you really don't have any and are just exploiting simple science to try and fool people. Why don't you move a piece of tissue paper instead.

did those kids have a glass over the wheel? I dont think so.

First of all, now that I have my doubts that we are talking about the same video here, I want to confirm that you are referring to the video provided in the link above ( http://youtube.com/watch?v=NAJ1KU9bqNk ) . If you are, I wish to confirm that you have watched the second video I have linked you to, the one that has a convection current demonstation ( http://youtube.com/watch?v=KFcahzu4E5A '>

)

If you have seen my first video in which I move a psi wheel under a glass container, and then you have seen the second video where I clearly debunk the myth that the heat from ones hands can move a psi wheel that is under a glass container…and if you still feel that your comment stands, all I got to say is isnt funny how the tables can turn. Where’s your evidence pal? I hear you talking, but I don’t see anything to back it up. If there are so many of these experiments, is shouldnt be hard to find a video demonstration. Don’t be a hypocrite now, if you want to get all critical on me I can gladly go tit-for-tat with you. Because you know that if I were to come in here with nothing but talk, none of you would take me serious. In fact, many of you still don’t even with my evidence. Yet, here you are, nothing but talk…and you have the nerve to criticize me for not being credible? If you can’t see what wrong with that, you’ve got bigger things to worry about then some video on youtube.

Edited by mattman
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Covering the psi-wheel with the glass doesn't create a vacuum. You're just trapping the air inside the glass, which your hand then warms up. If you really have these "psychic powers, why do you have to put the paper on a pin? Why don't you just put a piece of paper on the table and cover it with a glass? Oh you can't????? Gosh, that's a surprise.

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Ok, I got a couple of PM's from people and a couple of public posted questions as to what I would accept as valid evidence of the "Psi" (Pin Wheel).

First I have to honestly admit - I am burned out with the bogus attempts of trying to make a piece of paper twirl. In all cases >IF< one understands thermodynamics - this is always what is at play --> ALWAYS! :sleepy:

But what if nothing happens?? Good question - then obviously PSI is not at play … duh! - And isn't that the point?? :yes:

But ok - Here it is - to prove its "PSI" and not some law of science and/or physics.

a.

DO NOT USE YOUR HANDS! :no:

This is a mind thing gang. So remove the hands. They should be at your side - not anywhere near the paper. This is supposed to come from your "3rd Eye". So use it! Hand have heat, yes they do. From 80+/- degrees to 99+/- degrees and warmer/cooler all depending on where they have been. So remove them from the equation.

b.

NO LAMPS/fans/windows within 6-10 feet of the table and paper. :no:

c.

Clear table top or raised plexiglass top. :yes:

d.

No zoom in – find a focal point that shows everything clearly and keep the camera focused there at all times. The greater the FOV (Field Of View) the better as this allows us to see as much as is possible.

e.

Have packing peanuts around the edge of the glass/Plexiglass top. This will let us know if there is any breeze at play.

f.

Oh the paper – loose the needle. Set it flat on a clear table or raised plexiglass.

The needle creates the PIN WHEEL and is a cause/effect of heat - cold - well it's a PIN WHEEL and does exactly what pin wheels do.... SO NO NEEDLE! :ph34r:

g.

Audio ON, on your video. Tell us what you want the paper to do. Keep it on during the whole demo. Tell us you are going to spin the paper - CLOCK WISE or COUNTER CLOCK WISE. Move left or right or hey impress us have it move UP! :tu:

h.

Then show us your "PSI" and btw: GOOD LUCK. :tu:

i.

Then when this doesn't happen - have the courage to tell us so. You will actually earn more respect by admitting, that this focal point of “PSI” does not work and is not real.

j.

Quit going to ‘YouTubes or Google videos. :angry:

Quit looking to some obscure 85 year old Asian dude that doesn’t speak any English and does what amounts to “Mystic Illusions”. You know NOTHING about this person. You have NO clue what he’s doing, how he is doing it, let alone have any clue what he is saying! Admit it you don’t….

This is seen as nothing more than acts of DESPERATION on your part! :cry:

THIS IS YOUR BELIEF – PROVE THIS WITH YOUR LIFE. IF YOU CANNOT, THEN ACCEPT THAT THIS BELIEF WAS A SCAM THAT YOU FELL FOR. WE ALL FALL FOR ONE OR TWO IN OUR LIVES. IT HAPPENS. ACCEPT IT, MOVE ON AND GROW UP! :tu:

See the point is –

The so called "PSI WHEEL" is nothing more than a PIN WHEEL. Nothing more, trust me. These have been around for at least a century if not longer! These do NOT measure or prove Psi - it does show the dynamics of what a PIN WHEEL does - pure and simple. The lighter the paper the easier it is to move with even the slightest of AIR CURRENTS. The heaver the more energy it takes to spin. But it is a PIN WHEEL. I think (??) if you were to really want to use the PIN WHEEL and prove “PSI” it would have to be in a 100% vacuum sealed chamber. (Unless there is some law of physics I forgot – but I think a 100% vacuum sealed chamber would do it?? You would have to make sure it is – any degree O2 in it would create thermodynamics. It would have to be completely vacuum sealed.

I've come to the serious realization that science is apparently NOT being taught in school anymore? If one is going to prove "PSI" one has to be sure they have removed all chances of the law of Thermodynamics or other laws of science and/or physics from the equation. REMOVE ALL CHANCES OF IT!

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