Possible Evidence

[mizerou]

I think if Jj uses the phrase "'moot', 'silly', 'waste of time', and 'easily worked around'" one more time, God will start killing kittens en masse. Must you lengthen your posts so boringly? You sound like my mother repeating herself. "Liar! Liar! Liar! Liar! Con! Liar!".. gosh.

All matt was trying to say was, it wasn't "so obvious". But I guess it's not cool to force that opinion either. Some people will sit back, as many of these apparent "atheist/agnostic" arguments have been posted -- some will sit back and go "hm, interesting." -- and then some will have to instantly debunk it, lest their soul perish in the depths of the unexplainable. Sometimes, it can be OK to just wonder, no? I mean, I thought it looked interesting to say the least when I first seen it. Even the original one, granted was much more concealed, still sparks an inner curiousity. But if people just go around discrediting everything they don't believe in... and yes, we know, there were conditions in place for this. It's just food for thought.

I think everyone here got pretty heated up over nothing. To simply repeat yourself "Liar! Liar!" over and over doesn't make you sound very tangible either. It's just boring.

Oh, I guess I should also say "Hello". Yes, I registered just for this.

Edited June 12, 2007 by mizerou

[DakaSha]

I think if Jj uses the phrase "'moot', 'silly', 'waste of time', and 'easily worked around'" one more time, God will start killing kittens en masse. Must you lengthen your posts so boringly? You sound like my mother repeating herself. "Liar! Liar! Liar! Liar! Con! Liar!".. gosh.

well still a little underexagerated in my eyes but thank you ^^

[eqgumby]

It's not about TK being unproven or debunked, it's about the fact that it does not exist, yet there are still idiots that insist on conning people and bilking them out of their money.

And it actually IS obvious. He didn't do any of the things he agreed to, he just made up his own rules so his trick could work, then did his "Oohhh, look how clever I am" dance. GHEY. Like, "playground gay" as the saying goes.

[Blizno]

-- some will sit back and go "hm, interesting." -- and then some will have to instantly debunk it, lest their soul perish in the depths of the unexplainable. Sometimes, it can be OK to just wonder, no? I mean, I thought it looked interesting to say the least when I first seen it. Even the original one, granted was much more concealed, still sparks an inner curiousity. But if people just go around discrediting everything they don't believe in...

If TK was interesting but had no other significance, just wondering about it would be fine. But TK, like free energy, remote viewing, gods, time travel, etc. would, if demonstrated to exist, profoundly change the world. Most people want these things to exist but skeptics aren't willing to just sit back and watch videos. We are so interested in finding out if these things really do exist that we actively participate in these discussions. Hearing people keep telling us to "just believe" gets tiresome.

Also, as eqgumby said, there are armies of hoaxters robbing people, sometimes in their time of direst need, of the little money they have by lying to them. That is profoundly evil and everybody on earth should be horrified by those villains. Scamming, even as an experiment, leaves a very bad taste.

Edited June 12, 2007 by blizno

[Jjbreen]

As I said in one of my prior posts, it's like this:

Matt:

"What would you like for lunch today?"

YOU:

"I'll have a ham sandwhich, with Mayo, mustard, cheese and a tomatoe, on sourdough french bread please."

Matt:

"Ok, one ham sandwhich on sourdough frenchbread with mayo, mustard, cheese and tomatoes." Writes it down and says, "I have that and it's coming RIGHT UP! Thanks."

>>> What is set on the table: A slice of cheese and stale wheat bread. That's all. Not what was ordered or agreed to as "Coming Right Up!"

Matt:

Ah didn't see the need for what you ordered and what he (Matt wrote down) and said, "I have that...Coming right up!"

YOU:

"Umm, where's the sandwhich I ordered??

Matt:

"Decided it wasn't needed, I could do this and hoped to pull it off!"

Now honestly guys - how happy would you be? You had a set agreement on an order and then he set before was NOT even semi close to what was ordered and agreed upon. Would you honestly be happy??

Why? *Ya answer this.

Why not? *Ya answer this.

[drakonwick]

As I said in one of my prior posts, it's like this:

Matt:

"What would you like for lunch today?"

YOU:

"I'll have a ham sandwhich, with Mayo, mustard, cheese and a tomatoe, on sourdough french bread please."

Matt:

"Ok, one ham sandwhich on sourdough frenchbread with mayo, mustard, cheese and tomatoes." Writes it down and says, "I have that and it's coming RIGHT UP! Thanks."

>>> What is set on the table: A slice of cheese and stale wheat bread. That's all. Not what was ordered or agreed to as "Coming Right Up!"

Matt:

Ah didn't see the need for what you ordered and what he (Matt wrote down) and said, "I have that...Coming right up!"

YOU:

"Umm, where's the sandwhich I ordered??

Matt:

"Decided it wasn't needed, I could do this and hoped to pull it off!"

Now honestly guys - how happy would you be? You had a set agreement on an order and then he set before was NOT even semi close to what was ordered and agreed upon. Would you honestly be happy??

Why? *Ya answer this.

Why not? *Ya answer this.

To be honest what he done was childish and, it seems he doesn't have any morals.

[Jjbreen]

Ok, PLEASE!!! NO MORE PM's about how "Matt made me look stupid....." sigh........................

I guess only a handful of people actually see the truth here on just how 'stupid' Matt made himself look. Good grief.

Bottom line:

For as 'silly' - 'moot' - 'waste of time' - 'easily worked around', that my protocols were: Matt could NOT pull of his stunt. He couldn't do it. He had to 'change the rules' to fit his stunt. He could NOT pull it off with mine. That exactly how 'silly' they were - he could NOT do it in his agreement w/me.

So NO MORE PM's please until you can explain how come Matt not being able to pull of his stunt w/my protocols made my protocols "silly"? He actually PROVED that my protocols made it harder, well impossible for Matt to pull it off. He couldn't do it. In fact he couldn't even come close.... So who is the 'fool'? Who is looking 'stupid'? Who is the 'idiot'?

Look at the bottom line: I stated that it couldn't be done w/my protocols - I was right - it couldn't be done and hasn't been done. It's just that simple!

So put it to rest - NO MORE PM's - I will simply block 'you' if you send them.

MATT FAILED: CASE CLOSED!

[DakaSha]

i think you made eachother look stupid

[signedup2say]

I'll not say what I'm thinking of any individuals who participated in this whole thing, primarily because I don't want to offend anybody, but needless to say it is an eye opener. For a start there are posters here who after the initial rules of the challenge were circumvented still chose to debate the pros and cons of the experiment offered. Clearly with the rules of the challenge having been ignored, the "proof" offered shouldn't have dragged you in to the point of debating it's merit. If you debated it then you opened yourself up to any dishonesty and really can't dwell on that. Well you can, but it doesn't hide your bitterness.

As flawed as the "proof" is, a host of bad scientists debated it and commited to print some absurd reasons for knowing it was fake. Michael Chertoff has more credibility saying a terror attack is coming, the proof? His gut!!

I think the whole experiment and ensuing debate was justified. Did anybody learn anything from this? Because I learned a hell of a lot.

[Ike]

Hello everyone. First time posting here. Very interesting forum.

My name is Alkinoos Katsilianos, but my friends call me IKE. I am the founder of Darkwater Paranormal Investigations in Charleston South Carolina. We have been around for about a year now. My teams mission is to document any paranormal activity using scientific methods. I must confess that my motives are a bit selfish. "Evidence" such as that presented in this thread, are what convince most people that paranormal events have happened. I am not so easy to convince. Or at least I thought. I must say matt did a good job of making me look twice. I pride myself on not believing what I see online or even first hand accounts from people I interview. My first two runs through the video got me excited, and the third had me worried that I had forgotten my own advice, "Never believe what you see online!" Even evidence I have collected over that last year is regarded as "Interesting" at best in my mind.

I can understand how some of you can get so upset with him. I am a bit p***ed. Mostly because he had me convinced for a minute. Damn you!!! But, once again he reminded to regard every bit of evidence with a grain of salt. Bravo!!!

Thanks for reading my two cents worth.

Ike

Darkwater Paranormal Investigations

(843) 364-2414

[shantiel]

i think you made eachother look stupid

hahahahahaha

[ShaunZero]

I'm not saying that I disagree with Eric, but I do have say something. I'm skeptical as to how this kid has not yet been banned. Look at his attitude, and look at his signature. It's ok to be proud of being a skeptic, but please, for your own sake, don't brag about being a moron. I have never seen so much disrespect come out of one person's fingers.

My opinion on the video: Heat can move paper. If he can say which direction he's going to make the paper spin, and THEN do it, I might believe him.

Edited September 13, 2007 by Zero of Deism

[Derac Smi]

ima make a videop identical to that exept with boiling cups of water nearby instead of hands, and see if the heat theory for something like this is accurate--how far away would you say the hands were, 4 inches?

You are not going to compare the body heat emanating from a (medium size?) human hand to a cup of boiling water right? because that will only prove the extent of your "scientific knowledge". Try replicating it using the same temp? Just offering a suggestion, nothing more. And after you experiment, please post result?

[inkblot]

.

Edited September 26, 2007 by inkblot

[STIRyourMIND]

I just seen this video of the psi wheel and i ask anyone to come up with a theory of how it moved without saying the video was edited. Because if thats your only excuse the is never going to be a video good enough to prove to you psi wheels can work if you have TK and i reckon you should go to the person doing it and ask him to do it again with you watching.

If the link doesn't work then copy and paste it into the search bar.

STIR

[Kevin A.]

I just seen this video of the psi wheel and i ask anyone to come up with a theory of how it moved without saying the video was edited. Because if thats your only excuse the is never going to be a video good enough to prove to you psi wheels can work if you have TK and i reckon you should go to the person doing it and ask him to do it again with you watching.

If the link doesn't work then copy and paste it into the search bar.

STIR

Trust me we have all seen this video. Go back and read this entire thread. Some of us present ideas on how to make it work with/without camera editting. Towards the end or so we find out that Matt was a fraud and faking the entire thing. He explains, with some detail, exactly how he did it.

No camera editing but it was basically a trick table and not showing the entire room on camera.

I beg everyone. Please let this thing die and fade away into distant memory. ITS A TRICK!!! He is a fraud. It was not funny. Let it die already......

Kevin A.

Edited October 11, 2007 by Kevin A.

[Jjbreen]

Trust me we have all seen this video. Go back and read this entire thread. Some of us present ideas on how to make it work with camera editting. Towards the end or so we find out that Matt was a fraud and faking the entire thing. He explains, with some detail, exactly how he did it.

No camera editing but it was basically a trick table and not showing the entire room on camera.

I beg everyone. Please let this thing die and fade away into distant memory. ITS A TRICK!!! He is a fraud. It was not funny. Let it die already......

AMEN, Kevin ... amen ..... may it quickly be laid to rest and die the quick death it needs too!

[scriewy-]

this will not die.

dont fear, I is here. i will redeem you my chickens !

i saw both vids, the first 1 that came out year ago, i thought it's close to real thing, after watching the second video 2 days ago i thought wow another nice video, but after reading around 300 posts on youtube i find out it's "social experiment" lol, later i tumbled onto this forum and while browsing here i went over 1 of the links you gave Jjbreen http://search.freefind.com/find.html?id=37...query=Psi+Wheel

i went over the psi-wheel axperiment twice about his thermal convection currents suspicion, i heard and thought about that possibility not ones and all the test he did are very nice ! but i found a breach, firstly the test with the tea cupes is not so analogical because the heat from a body source radiating is much much less than a tea cup filled with boiling water, the ambient temp difference between how much body can heat air relatively to boiling water is maybe around 1/5 if not more, he technicaly shoud'v filled the cups maybe with 100 F water that while conducting the heat to the cups outer surface at end resault would radiate 95 F.

secondly what if the movment would accure without circling/placing hands around the psi wheel, but only one hand from 1 side, that would eliminate the chimney effect he discovered (vertical currents rise but mostly the side currents that are sucked in horizontaly from both sides influence the movement), and what if placing only the index finger near the psi wheel which is even less thermal radiance than from 1 hand, and what if placing only a pen or some metal rode 2-3 inch long which would even eliminate most of the thermal radiated from a finger

i'd do that, but "lucky" for me and lucky for the sceptics i entangle myself with 2 jobs from 09:00-15:00 7 days a week while studying pretty much too, from as finishing work untill 21:00 + almost every day, the studying rutine is for the next 3 months.

turns out that for resaults you must practice, same as every thing, like math, if you dont practice your memory faints on the subject and you get rusty.

a funy thing i noticed with this guy that ren these tests with psi wheel, he actualy did spun the wheel by his TK, but he didn't knew that, well because i guess he never thought TK works so he forcely thought of an idea why it did spun.

there's a default level of TK every human possesses, if you practice you develop it, if you dont it stays default.

with this guy when he thought that by changing a bit his hands position was the reason why it spun in a different direction he actualy though in his mind without doubt "ok now i'l change my hands position so it'l spin in other direction because the currents will change too" which is TK is all about LOL, and by thinking that, this expectation for a direction change is part of TK, you can lead/motivate your mind in many ways but it's the end intention that counts.

i tested some of my "mute" to the subject friends, and i noticed this default level, i can elaborate if any 1 wants.

and what ells, there was something ells, i think i forgot.

[Jjbreen]

scriewy-

Mattman already admitted it was a hoaxed video - that he did it mechanically and NOT w/Telekinesis. So this thread died for a very good reason - no Valid or Possible or Credible Evidence exists .... it's just that simple...

Now please let's let Mattman and his hoaxed video die ... one and for all ...

[Kevin A.]

scriewy-

Mattman already admitted it was a hoaxed video - that he did it mechanically and NOT w/Telekinesis. So this thread died for a very good reason - no Valid or Possible or Credible Evidence exists .... it's just that simple...

Now please let's let Mattman and his hoaxed video die ... one and for all ...

JJ you beat me to it. Darn. Yes can we please let this die?

Sciewy, I know youre new and let me welcome you to UM but did you read this entire thread? Obviously we have been over this many times before. There is not a single piece of TK anywhere in this thread or any of the video links posted here in. There is nothing here. The one video shows convection currents caused by heat from their hands and the other is Mattmans fraudulent video. Matt used trickery to make his video. Its a hoax, not TK or anything else. You have a few points, I think and if Im translating correctly, mostly about the tea cup thing but really, we have been over this before in this thread. I know its long but the entire thing is a solid read.

Again I welcome you to UM and please join us in future discussions. You just have to realize that this thread is a bit of a sore spot for some of us. It went on and continues to go on for far too long when you consider what it is all about.

Anyone interested in this thread, PLEASE read the ENTIRE thing from start to finish. Its really not worth bringing this back up to rehash it all now and then.

Kevin A.

[Tiggs]

As the owner of the original video has already posted that it was faked, I think it's time to put this thread gently to bed.

Thread closed.