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# Possible Evidence

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You know what I think would be an excellent idea:

Everyone should study the basic physics of a PIN WHEEL.

How does it works?

Why it works?

What makes it work?

Then remove the WHY and HOW and WHAT from the equation.

Then when you remove everything that can and will cause a PIN WHEEL to move - then you have a chance of proving PSI.

Study the dynamics of a PIN WHEEL. Really - I am serious.

Then you will see why what you do isn't PSI .... and what it will take to make it prove PSI!!

Jj -

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There is no justifying the psi-wheel at this point except for inside a lab setting.

I still don't understand why people here cannot grasp elementary school science. Simple tranfer of heat energy nothing really spectacular here.

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Does anyone on here ever get tired of seeing these psiwheel videos?

This is simple really this can easily be done by using heat read about thermodynamics!

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You are saying the heat makes the psi-wheel move? Heat=energy right? So maybe you aren't moving it with your mind, but you are using your energy to move it.

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That's what we're saying.

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You are saying the heat makes the psi-wheel move? Heat=energy right? So maybe you aren't moving it with your mind, but you are using your energy to move it.

Yes you are using your energy - but nothing super natural - nothing psi and nothing extraordinary. Just the normal temp that is naturally coming from your hand. There is NOTHING special about it at all.

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Without your PSI you cannot produce energy.

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Without your PSI you cannot produce energy.

The process in which the body regulates it's temperature is called 'thermoregulation'.

There are 4 things that allow our bodies to do the above.

1: Conduction- This is the heat transfer mechanism found in mammals and birds. For example when you touch something you transfer your bodies to the said object.

2: Convection- This is when the enviroment surrounding the body removes the heat or adds it. For example A cold breeze will remove heat from your skin, if the surrounding air is warmer then your skin it will transfer heat to the skin etc.

3: Evaporation- If it is too hot outside the body will produce sweat. This sweat evaporates cooling off the skin lowering body temperature.

4: Radiation- The body also collects heat from the sun and soaks up the radiation it produces.

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Without your PSI you cannot produce energy.

Ok, let me ask some specific questions here, 3rd rock....

Is it "Psi" that keeps our hearts beating??

Y?

N?

Is it "Psi" that keeps us breathing?

Y?

N?

Is it "Psi" that digests our food?

Y?

N?

Is it "Psi" that comunicates our fingers to type on the keyboard?

Y?

N?

Thanks - Jj

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Covering the psi-wheel with the glass doesn't create a vacuum. You're just trapping the air inside the glass, which your hand then warms up.
I never once said it created a vacuum. And as for my hand heating up the air in the glass *from a few inches away*, thats ridiculous. Watch my video's (as well as do some experimentation) and tell me how that'd work. My hands are inches away from the glass...since when does heat travel forward and not up? Since when does heat NOT dissipate as it moves away from the source? Tell you what, how about you *actually* watch that second video I posted In that video, I show how the convection currents effect an uncovered pin wheel using the heat from my hands (which is most definitely does effect the wheel) as well as the heat from a small flame (this also gets the wheel to move). HOWEVER, I then put the glass over the wheel. I put my hand by the glass (like in my first video)...and nothing. No movement at all. I then put my hands directly on the glass....nothing. I then take a blow dryer, and at full blast (140 degree temp) I heat the glass up for 2 MINUTES...and nothing. Not even the slightest twitch. How do you explain that? I mean, if the slight amount of heat create by my hands from inches away could move the wheel....why didn’t it? Why didn’t a direct heat transfer from my hands to the glass move the wheel? Why didn’t direct contact with 140 degree air (on the glass) for two minutes move the wheel? Would you be so kind as to explain that to me, and everyone else reading this?

Or maybe you should stop making a habit of preaching scientific gossip as actual science. There is no doubt that convection currents effect uncovered pin wheels. That’s why I cover them, i know convection currents effect pin wheels lol. And as the video clearly shows, and as your experiments would show (if you had actually done any that is) the heat from one's hands is not nearly enough to penetrate the glass and move the wheel, especially from a few inches out. But don’t take my word for it; don't even take my video for it....try it yourself. Go ahead. Make a pin wheel, put a glass over it, and try to move it using the heat from your hands. And if you have any integrity, film it and post it in this thread. Go ahead and prove me wrong by proving yourself right. Oh wait you cant, what a suprise!

If you really have these "psychic powers, why do you have to put the paper on a pin? Why don't you just put a piece of paper on the table and cover it with a glass?

Because we are talking about a minute amount of energy here. It’s no coincidence that the pinwheel yields very little friction, that’s why we use them. The energy created by my mind is not enough to just move an object because of the amount of friction involved. And before you say "its just convection currents, that’s why you need little friction !!1!!" watch my SECOND video and/or actually test your theory before you pretend like it works. Heat does create convection currents in air, there is no doubt about that. Whats under question is if the heat radiating from ones hand is enough to produce a current strong enough to move a pin wheel UNDER A GLASS CONTAINER. Just because heat causes currents, generally speaking, doesnt mean you have "proven me wrong" you fool. You need to apply that princible to this specific scenario in order to prove anything, and not one of you have done this yet (for some reason)

Oh you can't????? Gosh, that's a surprise
It’s a surprise you don’t fall down more often.

Ok, I got a couple of PM's from people and a couple of public posted questions as to what I would accept as valid evidence of the "Psi" (Pin Wheel).

First I have to honestly admit - I am burned out with the bogus attempts of trying to make a piece of paper twirl. In all cases >IF< one understands thermodynamics - this is always what is at play --> ALWAYS!

But what if nothing happens?? Good question - then obviously PSI is not at play … duh! - And isn't that the point??

But ok - Here it is - to prove its "PSI" and not some law of science and/or physics.

a.

This is a mind thing gang. So remove the hands. They should be at your side - not anywhere near the paper. This is supposed to come from your "3rd Eye". So use it! Hand have heat, yes they do. From 80+/- degrees to 99+/- degrees and warmer/cooler all depending on where they have been. So remove them from the equation.

b.

NO LAMPS/fans/windows within 6-10 feet of the table and paper.

c.

Clear table top or raised plexiglass top.

d.

No zoom in – find a focal point that shows everything clearly and keep the camera focused there at all times. The greater the FOV (Field Of View) the better as this allows us to see as much as is possible.

e.

Have packing peanuts around the edge of the glass/Plexiglass top. This will let us know if there is any breeze at play.

f.

Oh the paper – loose the needle. Set it flat on a clear table or raised plexiglass.

The needle creates the PIN WHEEL and is a cause/effect of heat - cold - well it's a PIN WHEEL and does exactly what pin wheels do.... SO NO NEEDLE!

g.

Audio ON, on your video. Tell us what you want the paper to do. Keep it on during the whole demo. Tell us you are going to spin the paper - CLOCK WISE or COUNTER CLOCK WISE. Move left or right or hey impress us have it move UP!

h.

Then show us your "PSI" and btw: GOOD LUCK.

i.

Then when this doesn't happen - have the courage to tell us so. You will actually earn more respect by admitting, that this focal point of “PSI” does not work and is not real.

j.

Quit looking to some obscure 85 year old Asian dude that doesn’t speak any English and does what amounts to “Mystic Illusions”. You know NOTHING about this person. You have NO clue what he’s doing, how he is doing it, let alone have any clue what he is saying! Admit it you don’t….

This is seen as nothing more than acts of DESPERATION on your part!

a. will do

b.will do

c.will do

d. will do

e. will do

f. sorry, but there isn’t enough energy created by my mind to move the piece of paper unless it’s on a pin. I admit, I can’t move the paper if it’s not on a pin. But I can move it under glass, and since my hands won’t be near the wheel, it will be clear that the heat from them won’t be at play.

g. Ok, I can do that.

h. don’t patronize me. It amazing how closed minded some of you people are, not because a lot of you pretend to be scientists, but because a lot of you just see what you want to see and nothing more. Look at how many people are ready to dismiss my video without actually knowing what they are talking about, or without giving me a chance to plead my case. You are a bit different, but just about everyone else are lemmings just preaching what they've been told. It’s disturbing.

I. Have I not kept my word so far? I made the video demonstration of convection currents. Have you seen it yet? If not, please take a look.

j. Im assuming this is not relevent to me considering I have yet to make reference to anyone but myself when concerning TK.

THIS IS YOUR BELIEF – PROVE THIS WITH YOUR LIFE. IF YOU CANNOT, THEN ACCEPT THAT THIS BELIEF WAS A SCAM THAT YOU FELL FOR. WE ALL FALL FOR ONE OR TWO IN OUR LIVES. IT HAPPENS. ACCEPT IT, MOVE ON AND GROW UP!
Just because you may not be convinced doesn't mean Im a fraud, or that TK is fake. Any scientist knows this. Surely you can understand why "the absence of evidence isn’t evidence of absence" or why a video wont ever, EVER be "good enough" proof. Its a video...no matter what measures i take, there will always be ways to doubt whats in the video. There is nothing i can do about this. I thought that was a given...

Besides, so far I have provided two videos supporting my claims, and a third one is on the way. Neither you or anyone else have posted any video (or link to someone else video) to back up the claims you all have wield as infallible truth. According to your logic, right now I should assume that you’re full of crap just as you assume im full of crap. So, before you get all self righteous on me, you need to back up YOUR claims that ones hands can create convection currents significant enough to move a PSI wheel under a glass from a few inches out. If what you say is true, it shouldn't be hard to demonstrate it. Go ahead, and when you can't...admit that you’re full of crap. And if you choose not to even try, admit that you’re just a hypocrite and nothing you say should be taken seriously.

See the point is –

The so called "PSI WHEEL" is nothing more than a PIN WHEEL. Nothing more, trust me. These have been around for at least a century if not longer! These do NOT measure or prove Psi - it does show the dynamics of what a PIN WHEEL does - pure and simple. The lighter the paper the easier it is to move with even the slightest of AIR CURRENTS. The heaver the more energy it takes to spin. But it is a PIN WHEEL. I think (??) if you were to really want to use the PIN WHEEL and prove “PSI” it would have to be in a 100% vacuum sealed chamber. (Unless there is some law of physics I forgot – but I think a 100% vacuum sealed chamber would do it?? You would have to make sure it is – any degree O2 in it would create thermodynamics. It would have to be completely vacuum sealed.

Man, quit ignoring relevant evidence. Yes, we all know convection currents have a huge impact on *exposed* pin wheels. And, in theory, they can affect a covered pin-wheel *IF* the source of the heat is within the container. But everything changes when the container separates the wheel from the heat source, as you can clearly see in my "Exploring convection currents" video, or if you take the time to try it yourself. Are you assuming the container plays no role in the influence of heat and how they effect pinwheels? Thats funny.

Since you are such a critic, critique my convection current video and explain to me why the wheel doesn’t move at all. Either do that, or post a video showing hand-heat moving a pin wheel under a glass container. Talk is cheap, and it seems like im the only one doing more than talking, ironically. If its been done countless time over (like you said it has), post a link to a video. Is that too much to ask? Is it too much to ask for you to explain to me why the wheel doesnt move in the convection current video i made just for this thread? Is it too much to ask for you not to ignore what im saying right now?? lmao

Edited by mattman
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All im saying is for you ALL to put your money where your mouth is, just like I did. If you want to back up your claims, your going to need evidence, you are going to need something more than talk. You are no exception to this rule, just lkeim no exception. So do it or quit talking. Its that easy. I did it, you can do it too. Make/find a video that shows *hand heat* moving a pin wheel *under a glass* or step off. Because until then, you arent able to objectively discredit my video.

On a side note, I know my video isnt perfect. No video is perfect, and likewise, no video is ever going to be "good enough evidence". You know that, i know that...so quit trying to hold me (or my video) up to those impossible standards. When i made that video, I had no idea how many more precatuions I needed to take, that was until I started getting feed back. Now I know what else to do in my next video, so cut me some slack. I can't go back in time and do things differently on that video, but i can (and will) make another video, a better one. So hang in there, and in the mean time....dont make accusations you can't back up. And by backing it up, I mean doing something more substaintial than yappin. Fair enough?

Edited by mattman
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Matt -

I am going to ask how old you are and if in school what grade? (aslo US, Canada or where?) Yes this is important and NO I'm not going to go "oh another kid" - because I've pretty much seen that most of the people here are kids. So that's not the issue.

The reason for the age is to see where I think you should be in understanding science.

I am going to put together a series of digital photos w/graphics and text that explain exactly what is going on in the jar with the pin wheel.

I also understand now that since a good number are under 18 that certain things that I thought was basic knowledge of the science involved here simply is not the case.

The series of Jar photos will explain the dynamics.

Jj -

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I'd believe static charge before this heat nonsense. Hands that are barely warmer than room temperature are going to do absolutely nothing to move objects in a closed container using only their own heat.

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^^^It seems you should do a little bit of reading before you make claims. The human body is regulated at about 38 degrees celcius. Room temperature is usually anywhere between 20 to 25 degrees.

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Im 21 (just turned actually), and am a Junior at the University of Denver (www.du.edu). (for more references, go to www.myspace.com/imadirtywhiteboy or AstralSociety.com). I also have a cumulative gpa of 3.65. Believe me, my concerns have nothing to do with age. I have done rather extensive experimenation with convection currents and how they effect both covered and uncovered psi wheels. The difference between the two are more than significant, and given your implied level of understanding, it should be clear to you why thats so. You have seen my video, havent you? Please critique before you continue. I think its more than relevent given this discussion.

Btw, you are going to need more than still images. I don't mean to sound cynical, but so far I have no reason to assume that you won't tamper with with the set up, or how it appears, between each snap shot to reinforce your point of view. And this is especially true considering the obvious bias you carry. And please dont take this as an insult, (we all have biases to some degree) its just that I know how people can get when they set their mind to "disproving" something or someone, and you seem to be pretty decided on this issue. Please forgive me if I don't give you the benefit of the doubt. I was never that fortunate.

Also, I know how convection currents work, so you can skip the general ed. What I want from you is a real-time demonstration of what you are/will be telling me/shwing me with pictures. If you were going to show me how convection currents from my hand will enter the glass and move the wheel...show me it as it happens in reality, not theory. I stress this because i have tried and tried and tried to get the wheel to move the way you all seem to think its moving, but have had zero success. Absolutely zero. So please undersand why a general, or theorectical, explaination won't satisfy me. I need an actual demonstration, for the same reason a drawing of how "psi" works wouldn't satisfy you.

BTW, thank you for showing me a little respect. Its nice to get it once in a while.

Edited by mattman
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Btw, you are going to need more than still images. I don't mean to sound cynical, but so far I have no reason to assume that you won't tamper with with the set up, or how it appears, between each snap shot to reinforce your point of view. And this is especially true considering the obvious bias you carry. And please dont take this as an insult, (we all have biases to some degree) its just that I know how people can get when they set their mind to "disproving" something or someone, and you seem to be pretty decided on this issue. Please forgive me if I don't give you the benefit of the doubt. I was never that fortunate.

BTW, thank you for showing me a little respect. Its nice to get it once in a while.

No problem, Matt. I am trying to figure out and see where people are. I am finding the age range to be 14 to well now 21. BTW- Happy Belated Birthday!

The stills will simple show the basics of science for those that are not familiar with the principles involved. I will also have some silent video - in that I do not have a video camera. My Nikson 995 does silent video of short sequence. So I will be using that to show short demos of what I am talking about.

Now since I am not familiar with how to upload videos to Utube - I may require some assistance w/that.

Happy Belated birthday ---

Jj

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The stills will simple show the basics of science for those that are not familiar with the principles involved. I will also have some silent video - in that I do not have a video camera. My Nikson 995 does silent video of short sequence. So I will be using that to show short demos of what I am talking about.
This should be interesting!

I can't wait to see what you come up with Jj!

Tom

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Matt -

This is NOT directed towards you at all - but the readers in general to let them know in simple terms what it is I am talking about:

Ok, someone PM’d, with the understanding of what it is and where it is I’m going with this. They suggested to find out exactly where people are at in their understanding to go ahead and do a simple explanation fist.

So here it goes;

A.) Air molecules exist. Inside a jar and out side a jar.

B.) When air molecules heat up, they do what? They rise.

C.) When they cool down they do what? The “fall”.

When this cycle is repeated it will create – AIR FLOW.

Remember why they say – “heat rises”. It does. Why in summer do people NOT like to be on the top floor of a room, building apartment? During the summer they want the bottom or basement? This is the reason. Heat rises, cools down and drops.

Now – if all air is the same temp inside the jar and outside the jar, the Pin wheel will NOT move until something is done to create ‘air flow’.

Now in a jar eventually the air at some point will start to warm up, depending on the variance of the out side temp of the jar and the inside temp of the jar.

Your hands, the closer the get start to warm up the air, by warming up the jar and thus as it moves to inside the glass it will start to warm up the air and thus – rise, cool and fall and rise again: Thus creating air flow.

Now of course this also depends on the temp of your hands. If they have not been active, thus creating heat – they will likely be on the ‘cooler’ side of your body temp. Thus they will not have a ‘fast’ effect on the temp change. If they are hotter them the room temp they will. If colder, well then what will happen??

No obviously the mass/size of the jar glass, the free space inside the jar, the temps and such will cause obvious variance as to how fast, slow the pin wheel will spin. Also depending if it’s directly centered or ‘off center’ will dictate how the pin wheel will spin and in which direction.

Ok – is there any part of this that is not understood?? Understand that NO INSULT is intended. No this is NOT written in Science Book Language as this is NOT a science book and is intended to be able, hopefully to be understood by all age/grade levels.

This will also tell me just how specific in the pictures/video I need to be. Hopefully the above will/should give you ample enough information to understand what I’m talking about??

Jj –

I am still going to do the digital pictures with arrows and such showing this and small res-videos to show this. I do not have a video camera, so at this time I cannot supply a high quality video. But this should be enough to get the point well across. My digital camera is not equipped with sound. I wish it did, but it does not. But I’ll supply enough data that you should be able to EASILY reproduce what I show you.

Edited by Jjbreen
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Hey Jjbreen....wouldn't it be better if Matt used the same psiwheel set up, but instead of trying to move the pinwheel covered by glass....how about he puts two steaming cups of coffee next to the jar and use his psi to keep the pinwheel still. Would that be impressive?

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Hey Jjbreen....wouldn't it be better if Matt used the same psiwheel set up, but instead of trying to move the pinwheel covered by glass....how about he puts two steaming cups of coffee next to the jar and use his psi to keep the pinwheel still. Would that be impressive?

Actually what would be impressive is setting up the air current to spin the pin-wheel in one direction say: counter clock wise. Then make it stop and turn clock wise. But having the hands NOT near the pin wheel - just w/thought... With all checks and balances in place to insure no outside science being in play at the same time.

Jj -

BTW - Everyone, please cal me Jj - thanks - and yes I did say EVERYONE!

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True that. You know what would be even more impressive....Don't use a pinwheel at all. Use a tiny scrap of paper. Without hands. Thus ---- no air currents = psychic ability!!!!!

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True that. You know what would be even more impressive....Don't use a pinwheel at all. Use a tiny scrap of paper. Without hands. Thus ---- no air currents = psychic ability!!!!!

That simply would never happen -

I honor Matt's honesty that he cannot do this other than on with the pin wheel. So that's fine. I respect that.

He really has no small task ahead of him.... but honestly I do wish him well....

Jj -

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BTW:

For the record: I've stated this before, oh more than a few times:

I do accept Psi Abilities as real. I have seen enough and experienced enough to NOT question this.

Ok - is the above understood??

(I have gotten several PM and I'm getting annoyed by the FACT that people seem to NOT read the above in it's various stated forms. So this is for the RECORD! I DO ACCEPT THAT PSI IS REAL!)

But the PIN WHEEL in ALL cases that have been presented to me in the past 10 years - yes this is NOT new!! Have not met the burden of proof that it's PSI - but everytime has shown Science is at play. That is my problem with the PIN WHEEL - it proves SCI in all the cases that I have witnessed - NOT PSI.

Again I do accept PSI ABILITIES as real - REALLY!! Ok??

This end this message - we now return you to your regulare scheduled posts.

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ssjtin, I too wish psi was more practical.

jj, thank you for the basic info, as it is very important to know when dealing with pin wheels (especially uncovered ones). Both skeptics and advocates should be aware of convection currents. Since we have established a foundation of information, id like use it to better explain what I’ve been trying to get at. Ok so far we've covered:

-Air is composed of molecules

-Air is found inside as well as outside the covered pin wheel (unless in a vacuum).

-Heat rises, cold "falls"

-Molecular motion of air molecules = air flow

-Air flow = currents

-Currents have the potential of moving the pin wheel.

This is all true.

But also be aware that there is an energy threshold of sorts that must be met (or exceeded) for the wheel to move. This is because, regardless of the presence of convection currents inside the glass, they must be strong enough to move the wheel to make it spin. Convection currents simply being there isn’t necessarily enough to move the wheel. This is what many people do not realize. So the question isn’t whether or not there are convection currents inside the glass. Given that there are air molecules inside the glass, there is no doubt that with a sufficient temperature change these air molecule will move, on a molecular level that is. The real question is, given the heat is sufficient enough to reach and pass through the glass...will these currents be significant enough to move the wheel, or will the molecular movement be too minute to yield any visible motion?

To figure this out, we need to account for the temperature of my hands, the temp of the room, the mass of the paper, the friction of the pin-paper contact, and the glass. This is exactly what my video was exploring. There is no doubt in my mind that the heat from one’s hand is entirely insufficient in creating a current significant enough to move the wheel, especially from a few inches away. I feel this way because I was unable to create a convection current using 140 degree Fahrenheit air (for a duration of 2 minutes) significant enough to even make the wheel twitch, much less the heat from my hands.

In fact, given

-the amount[/1] of 140 degree air coming from the hairdryer (it wasn’t merely radiating 140 degree heat) which yielded no movement,

-the time tables involved with the wheel spinning in my first video (a second delay perhaps),

-The position of my hands from the glass (both distance and height)

I estimate that my hands would have to be well over 400 degrees Fahrenheit for them to move the wheel like they did in the first video. And even if that was the case, which is impossible, the wheel wouldn’t stop spinning as suddenly as it did unless I provided a proportionally *cold* and sudden current of air. Simply removing the source wouldn’t stop the wheel for spinning until the air heated from my hands equalized, which would take some time considering the air is contained, right? Heat takes a while to leave a container for the same reason is takes a while to fill a container. Since we are talking about mere seconds here (as seen in the first video), it would take both extremely high and low temperatures to produce the results seen in the video, ones that could not possibly come from ones body.

Anywho, thats my position in a nutshell.

Edited by mattman
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Ok, let me ask some specific questions here, 3rd rock....

Is it "Psi" that keeps our hearts beating?? Yes

Is it "Psi" that keeps us breathing? Yes

Is it "Psi" that digests our food? Yes

Is it "Psi" that comunicates our fingers to type on the keyboard? Yes

Thanks - Jj

You might not know it but it is your PSI who is asking these questions.