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Virtual Particle

Online Telekinesis Experiments

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Virtual Particle

Ai you apparently think very well of yourself and other skeptics who post here and to be quite honest if you could take what you just said to me, look in a mirror and realize that you are talking about yourself. It is you sir who have buried yourself and quite frankly your current attitude shows it well. You have failed to present even one legitimate issue regarding the efficacy of this test and quite frankly your responses have deteriorated to that of slander, hostility and blatant misdirection. My point has been supported and you yourself brought up the point in question related to the thread in the statements made regarding the validity of the test.

As far as when I used the name Toltec and the statements made you have really made apparent your malicious intent as well as your hostile attitude. And it is great that this topic is available for all to read, it establishes your intent to aspire to be like members in this forum who have been essentially banned (Marduk).

The topic is in relation to Online Telekinesis Experiments and as of yet you who claim the test is invalid have provided nothing to support your points with exception of your self valued opinion:td: hostility, insults and references to members who have either been banned, provided data which had nothing to do with the subject (but claimed that it was exactly what was in need) and disproves his own points then claims that those points prove his ideology.

Thank you very much for providing an excellent example of pathological skepticism.

Kibbles what "Ai guardian" is saying is that when you concentrate in the experiment to make the marker move one way and it moves another. When that occurs it must mean that your ability to move it should not be treated the same way as if you moved it the way you wanted to. He seems to feel that when this happens your ability to move it is wrong some way or perhaps the experiment is wrong, either way it should not be counted. What I am saying is that this type of reaction is normal especially in dealing with persons who have lived there lives in cultures where psi is considered a taboo. An emotional reaction (inverse reaction) occurs, causing as a reuslt of anxiety, an oposite response of what was intended by the subject and while the ability to move the marker happens, it moves the marker the opposite way.

Ai as to your opinion and those you mention this is some advice, find the threads yourself of you are interested in finding them but do not think that I will do a search for you. I know what I wrote and quite frankly we do not have a smiley which addresses the rest of my opinion.

The test is valid the methodology works and what is very strange is that you spent all that time preparing all those post, which addressed my comments, but failed to note what was

clearly something you should not have missed.

Any thoughts?

PS: Cheers :tu::tsu: and again thank you for your cooperation and as far as ad-nauseum your the new king :tu:

Edited by Triad

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Lottie

The rules of this board clearly state:

The subject of metaphysical abilities and psychic phenomena is a very controversial one. There is and always will be conflict between those who strongly believe in these phenomena, and those who do not. Therefore it is important to respect each other's opinions on the subject.

This means no flaming or trolling in this section. You are welcome to argue a point, as long as you do so in a civil manner. Namecalling, bickering, personal insults or offensive remarks are unacceptable. Posts designed to ridicule or demean other members will be removed.

In addition we will now be taking a more active stance against nonsensical posts in this section, in particular posts in which members are making claims of psychic 'powers'. This is not to say that the discussion of psychic phenomena is discouraged, but that threads such as "i can perform (insert word here)kinesis!!!!" are detrimental to our efforts to provide a place for serious discussion pertaining to metaphysical phenomena.

Snidey comments and insults are now getting tedious. If there is something constructive to say, say it but with civility. Any more posts that are apparent to demeaning another user will be warned.

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Virtual Particle

Many things are known in this world which some feel are impossible and when eviden ce begins to mount, that points directly to validity, clearly decent will exist. Psi, especially with respect to telekinesis brings up all sorts of ingrained social issues primary of which are religious and scientific. Why is it that necromancy is treated with disdane in relation to the christian faith when, the epitomy of chritian faith was the son of God raising the dead ?? Clearly, the power he expressed which was next as important is relatable to PK effect(walking on water). These experiments are in fact evidence of what Jesus himself offered to mankind when he stated that with the faith of a mustard seed one could move mountains.

There is in fact substantial evidence which applies appropriate protocols and adheres to the more,srutinized and conservative elements of the scientific community and the reality is,with respect to these discussions to expect more,exist beyond the perview of what is reasonable and realistic. Proof has been provided and evidence beyond any shadow of doubt has been offered what is left to do is in relation to a theorem and that one day will be a part of the past.

Any thoughts?

Edited by Triad

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Virtual Particle

Xenojjin states....

For the record this kind of technique is referred to as "machine ghost" or the psionic ability to affect electronic data by interfering with it. Its a form of PK, but not completely pk.

If I recall...this kind of Pk was actually proven somewhere to be true but I forget where it was done. ( We had a topic somewhere...buried now... ) Something about a black box that created a 1 or 0 ( Very simple machine ) and people were asked to try to affect it through will.

Due to the growing consensus that in fact telekinesis is valid, those who see this as a threat have cited the issue of how in the past, this capacity was defined as supernatural (implied is the idea that it is the result of forces that exist beyond nature). The resultant effect at present is presented in the context of such abilities, when concluded as valid is implied, as somehow different and added to the term (the word) "pseudo" seems a nuance the masses are expected to tolerate. In my opinion, given all the research into quantum mechanics and string theory, such concepts should be accepted under the context of semantics.

Go back 2000 years in mankind's history and silk flowers would have been defined as supernatural in certain parts of the world should we see them today as such??

Any thoughts?

Edited by Triad

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Silentom

As much as I disagree with these online experiments and find them to be invalid!

I will have to agree with Triad on this one there is no need to bash him on a personal level, AI Guardian! That to me is quite childish!

Edited by §ileиtoм

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ai_guardian

I have presented legitimate issues, Triad however has failed to produce legitimate explanations for the issues. The fact of the matter and what it ultimately boils down to is that this experiment does not provide a psychological evaluation of the participant for anyone to be able to make anything but baseless assumptions for any psychological explanations. And as for the speculations about "inverse reactions" taking place, these are just that, mere speculations that as far as reality is concerned are very questionable.

What we do have and know for a fact is...

- there is an online experiment running since 1997 to test for the existence of pk

- decay of particles is used as the random generator for the experiment

- being an online experiment (and due partly to its design) most of the participants will perform the experiment in private and only require an email address (to participate in recorded runs)

- participant chooses to influence the outcome to the right or to the left

- overall results show that the outcome tightly fits the bell curve expected from a random experiment, with a standard deviation to the opposite side of the participants' original choice

The above is indisputable. It is how the experiment is run and the summary page clearly shows the results to-date.

What we don't have...

- capture of geographical, cultural or individual profile data

- any basis to make any legitimate/credible assumptions on, constant referral to "discussion", more material, citations etc. etc. does not make the assumptions true - especially when there is no such discussion, material or citations.

In the end, to call this experiment "proof" of micro psi/pk is a jump to a conclusion that not even the author of the experiment is willing to make "We neither accept nor dismiss the existence of retropsychokinetic effects" - John Walker.

To read any more into this experiment beyond the inherent facts, is simply opinionated and riddled with baseless assumptions. I start with the base, the knowledge that cannot be disputed. If anyone reads any more into it to extrude some pk/psi phenomenon by claiming "inversion reaction" and convoluted stream of assumptions without having anything to base it on, then one inherently loses the "proof" factor. It is no longer proof of anything except an opinion held in order to support something that so far has not been proven to exist.

To assume I am either a believer or skeptic is totally beside the point. I came in here questioning the results of the experiment and stating the facts as I found them. You don't have to be either (believer/skeptic) to question something as puzzling as the results. And I'm not about to swallow baseless assumptions for the want of something strange to be taking place. To do so, IMO, is rather foolish.

Triad, your words do not warrant my attention, they have lost any and all credibility...

But for the record, it is really strange, that you prepared all those posts about what

I wrote but missed that issue about my citing past threads, in relation to psi and

emotions.

Go on Triad, what post number would that be where you cited past threads that discuss emotions in relation to PSI?

...still waiting...

I will have to agree with Triad on this one there is no need to bash him on a personal level, AI Guardian!
...yeah, well, you weren't the one sent on a wild goose chase were you only to discover that that is his grand tactic. :rolleyes:

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Tiggs

Ahem.

Obviously, this is a topic which generates great passion. On the basis that this thread is beginning to dissolve into name calling, I'm going to hijack it and redirect all of this energy into something much more constructive and co-operative.

As you may or may not be aware, I'm currently designing an online experiment.

So far, I've constructed a technical design overview (which can be viewed here) to address potential security issues regarding the tests and am now beginning to collate the functional requirements, which is where I'd like everyone's help and input, skeptics and believers alike.

Together, we should be able to design a set of test protocols that everyone should be happy with.

To start with, let's see if we can agree on the information that should be collected during the testing process for subsequent analysis.

ai_guardian - "capture of geographical, cultural or individual profile data" - would you like to expand on that?

Tiggs

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ai_guardian
Obviously, this is a topic which generates great passion. On the basis that this thread is beginning to dissolve into name calling, I'm going to hijack it and redirect all of this energy into something much more constructive and co-operative.
Actually it's not the topic that is generating the passion, rather the interpretation of the experimental results that is doing it. ;) No, no, no, it is not dissolving into name calling just a little character painting spurred on by none other than Triad himself. Just results of my research.

Ooooommmmmm, here goes my energy...

ai_guardian - "capture of geographical, cultural or individual profile data" - would you like to expand on that?
Well, to combat spurrious opinions as were presented here by Triad, the experiment would have to capture data that will allow analysis via data mining. The more data that is captured however will make the experiment less private and perhaps less appealing to participants. We all know how much we hate to fill out surveys :) But what could be collected could include Geographical location - country (and/or perhaps region), Cultural - with respect to the paranormal what bracket the participant falls in, ie. believer, not sure, skeptic, and/or any emotional barriers with respect to the subject,

Individual Profile - ie. age, gender, etc.

Tiggs, I haven't looked at your experimental design so I can't say anything else about what you are trying to do. ;)

Cheers

Guardian

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Virtual Particle

Great to hear from you Tiggs glad to hear things are working out :)

ai_guardian your behavior is inappropriate the simply fact is you are arguing semantics whose basis is the denial of the existence of psi. A person’s response to a stressor when opposite of expectations is still the result of stress that is simple to understand. You seem to want to present the psi is a mechanistic capacity, a function

equivalent in some way to a gear in an automatic transmission in a car, to be clear you are completely wrong and to be honest how you are presenting yourself does you no

good.

You brought up Marduk this is an individual who sent me PM's threatening me to conform to his beliefs, otherwise he would "destroy" me (Phoenicians had ruled the world as we understand it) . In reaction to the discussions we had my point was supported by a gentlemen, whose Masters was in Architecture (he is an architect) no possible way in the world I was wrong. His behavior towards me was without scruples and to be very clear you are doing no better.

These are not "baseless assumptions," they are a part of the very foundation of experimental research within the felid of psychological research and what is questionable

Sir is your intent and your lack of respect for others. As I have presented I have made numerous post on the topic of the relationship between emotion and psi in this forum it has been a theme in relation to my discussions since I have been here. I can assure you that those who post and read these articles consistently, know exactly what it is I am talking about; so by all means feel free to continue your baseless assumptions they benefit my point (especially since you do not know that).

Any thoughts?

PS:With resepct to Bio-Mage and Aquatus 1 :no: my advice is that you read the threads with an objective mind cleary this is not what you are doing. And while you are so busy pretending to know what you are talking about I know what I am saying.

See attached...

http://www.alternativescience.com/psychokinesis.htm

Edited by Triad

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ai_guardian

Triad, your words do not warrant my attention, they have lost any and all credibility...

But for the record, it is really strange, that you prepared all those posts about what

I wrote but missed that issue about my citing past threads, in relation to psi and

emotions.

Go on Triad, what post number would that be where you cited past threads that discuss emotions in relation to PSI?

...still waiting...

You brought up Marduk this is an individual who sent me PM's threatening me to conform to his beliefs, otherwise he would "destroy" me (Phoenicians had ruled the world as we understand it) . In reaction to the discussions we had my point was supported by a gentlemen, whose Masters was in Architecture (he is an architect) no possible way in the world I was wrong. His behavior towards me was without scruples and to be very clear you are doing no better.
I'm not sure what you're referring to but the tactic that sticks in my mind is your claim that 300+ sites supported your view yet when it came to the crunch you couldn't supply 1 link. :P

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Virtual Particle

ai_guardian the mere fact you brought up Marduk presents that you are an(term not included as it would cause me to be banned) At no point did I say anything you are suggesting, perhaps another forum is where you should be, where your effort to slander others is appreciated for what it is not :P

I have supplied more that enough data to support my point and for the record, let me say again, that in relation to Psi and emotions, there are numerous posts in relation to that

point (as well as links). It is really unfortunate that you lack the ability to admit that you are wrong and to be clear, the fact you missed that point, in our discussions, points clearly to the fact, that your slanderous behavior is the result of a single minded intent.

Your obsession is as obvious as your inability to apologize for your actions....

Any thoughts??

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ai_guardian

As I said before, claims of discussions, more material and citations do not make another claim true, especially if there are no discussions, more material or citations.

BTW, lookup the definition of slander, I have done no such thing :P

At no point did I say anything you are suggesting, perhaps another forum is where you should be, where your effort to slander others is appreciated for what it is not
Need I post it? Unlike you, I have the information I claim.

No apologies necessary where apologies aren't due :P

You can claim I am wrong till you're blue in the face but the facts remain. I work with the facts you work with wishful thinking.

But for the record, it is really strange, that you prepared all those posts about what

I wrote but missed that issue about my citing past threads, in relation to psi and

emotions.

Go on Triad, what post number would that be where you cited past threads that discuss emotions in relation to PSI?

...and I'm still waiting...

Edited by ai_guardian

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Virtual Particle

Friend since you decided to bring up Marduk I can assure you that prior to my doing a search for you, Hell would have to freeze over :angry2: and you have slandered me, that is obvious. I expect a formal apology from you, presented in this thread, with no expectations you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and that is

obvious.

Any thoughts?

Edited by Triad

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ai_guardian
since you decided to bring up Marduk I can assure you that prior to my doing a search for you, Hell would have to freeze over
What are you talking about?? :wacko: What have I asked you to search for? I said "Need I post it? Unlike you, I have the information I claim." :lol::rofl::rolleyes: I simply ask you to support your claims. :P

LOL, Triad, here, I've done my search (for more discussions, material and citations), here's the results:

:blink:

Now...

But for the record, it is really strange, that you prepared all those posts about what

I wrote but missed that issue about my citing past threads, in relation to psi and

emotions.

Go on Triad, what post number would that be where you cited past threads that discuss emotions in relation to PSI?

...and you guessed it, I'm still waiting...

You make the claim, YOU support it. :P

And I repeat, no apologies necessary where apologies aren't due. :P

You see, the funny thing about slander is - it is only slander when false statements are made. I can support all mine :P

you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and that is

obvious.

LOL, speak for yourself. :w00t:

:tu:

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Virtual Particle

No interests in playing your game dude the threads exist if you’re having trouble finding them perhaps you should get help from someone who thinks better of you.

All your efforts at denial are falling on deaf ears, in actuality so many threads exist on the subject, it is just as strange that you have no located them, as the fact you did not note it was mentioned in this thread. What is interesting is that you continue to respond as if you have a reason.

To be honest you do not....

Any thoughts?

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ai_guardian

Oh, I have a reason to post, a really good one. ;)

Here, read it once more, I deliberately left out the comments that followed (but you know what they are)

Triad, your words do not warrant my attention, they have lost any and all credibility...

But for the record, it is really strange, that you prepared all those posts about what

I wrote but missed that issue about my citing past threads, in relation to psi and

emotions.

Go on Triad, what post number would that be where you cited past threads that discuss emotions in relation to PSI?

...still waiting, how long are you going to keep up this charade?...

B)

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Virtual Particle

It is you who is engaging in a charade ai_guardian that is obvious from your comments.....the word credibility is not a word you understand and again I refer to what

is obvious in your comments to date. Nothing that you are saying makes any sense unless of course one considers you are obsessed :yes:

Function: adjective

Pronunciation: 'nüm-r&s, 'nü-m&-; 'nyüm-, 'nyü-m&-

Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French numereux, from Latin numerosus, from numerus

: consisting of great numbers of units or individuals <born into a numerous family> ; also : MANY <received numerous complaints>

- nu•mer•ous•ly adverb

- nu•mer•ous•ness noun

See attached....

http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=...mind&P=2269

It was never my intention to make you look like an idiot ai_guardian but that is about to happen :tu:

Any thoughts?

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ai_guardian
It was never my intention to make you look like an idiot ai_guardian but that is about to happen
Oh please, you don't realise you've been doing it to yourself all along?

missed that issue about my citing past threads, in relation to psi and

emotions

Come on already, where's the threads you cited in this thread. Now you know what citing means don't you?

You gladly pull out an obscure transcript by some "Robert Neil Boyd" whom from a quick search doesn't seem to have any credibility either but you cannot support your own statement.

BTW, although besides the point...

Many of the psychic abilities seem to be founded on an exceeedingly
Take note of the word SEEM. You know what that means don't you?

Anyway back to the point, the reason for your inability to provide the reference for your alleged citations in this thread is quite obvious. Let's not fool ourselves any more.

The fact that none of your references (even if rather puny in numbers) talk about "inversion reaction" is evident that you have stretched this opinion beyond the tether's breaking point. You are now conducting some sort of hand-waving to get back to reality, holding your (broken) end of the tether claiming "look I am still connected to reality!".

At the end of the day however the facts remain, I work with what is (the experiment as is) refusing to swallow or extrapolate too much out of something. You on the other hand are working with an opinion based on assumptions that are quite frankly very questionable with regards to reality. In no discussion have I come accross this "inversion reaction" taking on a role in psi. Emotions yes, but they dictate a different result on a scale from ability to no-ability NOT ability to wrong-ability. In fact, if you did your homework right you'd come accross the 'theorised' real reason for the discrepancy in results but alas you haven't. There is no experiment that would in your eyes show no strange phenomenon - you will always read into it whatever will show psi - even if it is not there. But hey, whatever floats your boat. :tu:

:lol:

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Virtual Particle

It is a very simple thing to understand Ai and if you had worked with such experiments or had ever done any research in the field you would know what I am talking about. The physical phenomenon is expressed, therefore the energy being applied exists, and the direction the indicator travels is an expression of the energy in question. That the person is trying to move it left and it moves right is related to the emotional state of the person in question with regards to the phenomenon they are experiencing. See I have even worked with really sensitive scales (you know the ones I am talking about right) in relation to observing and tracking the phenomenon (moving a pencil) and guess what, after working with the subject for several weeks and helping them calm down, no problem, instead of the pencil putting pressure on the scale increasing the weight the pencil moves. .

Seems to me you are not doing enough research into the subject or perhaps your point of view is getting in the way of an objective evaluation. Whatever the problem you seem to be having is, it clearly includes your composure as well as you inability to respect others.

Any thoughts?

PS: As far as that idea about experimenter's skewing the results based upon there beliefs that is gibberish. in the US we have a term Ai it is "Arm Chair Quarterback," in other words, why don't get off your "laurels" and do something beyond expressing your/others opinions about something you have never actually been involved in.:tu: That is in fact what makes this discussion in relation to your contribution so :wacko: and while you may have found that offensive the truth is the truth.

Edited by Triad

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ai_guardian

LOL, perhaps one of these days you will get one of your assumptions right - the day hasn't come yet though.

You can wave your hands around all you like but I've said my part and that is that there are facts with regards to this experiment and then we have your baseless assumptions leading to ridiculous opinions. :lol:

And the fact that you haven't yet supported your rather very false statements (what should be an easy one ie. citations) to clear your credibility shows that you have no credibility.

Whatever the problem you seem to be having is, it clearly includes your composure as well as you inability to respect others.
You seem to be the one with a problem - false statements and opinions abound, dressed-up as truth/fact. Perhaps you've forgotten your disrespectful comments as Toltec AND as Triad, tisk, tisk. Respect has to be earned, and at the moment you have a very large debt against both your usernames. :tu: Edited by ai_guardian

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Virtual Particle

Ai try to stay on topic and again realize that in relation to my responses in this forum I will respond in kind when disrespected :tu: . I started none on those issues and if you had behaved appropriately I would have continued to respond in kind with you, that is one very good explanation for why I am still a member here. :yes: Had you actually read those threads you would know that, so it is clear you have not read the threads.

Read though this thread again AI in relation to your own words about your opinion not your experience and my references to my experience. You believe you are right, but have no experience to back up your claim, with exception of your lack of experience with the phenomenon in question. You also feel that your lack of experience with the phenomenon should be proof to me of your claim of validity. You think (opinion) the phenomenon can be explained in relation to a cultural bias (someone else’s opinion), in respect to supporting your point, but how can that be so, if support of the idea that a phenomenon does not exist establishes a lack of experience with observing the events in question. Say for instance; I say to you I have seen and describe a gorilla and you say "that is impossible gorillas do not exist." Your denial of what I observed does not by itself negate the plausibility of the event being real you need to provide evidence of your claim (That would require experience).

Now, what experience do you have with the paranormal in general, as well as of course online telekinesis experiments? Keep in mind we are not talking about the fact that when you were about 4, your significant (God bless there souls) others told you the paranormal was not real, or the idea, that because you have confidence in the words of those significant others who leaned that from there significant others. And somewhere down the line, people were killed by the countless millions for acknowledging or actually practicing paranormal type activities (though truthfully none of them I am sure engaged in online telekinesis experiments) which, were part of a tribe, of which you are descendent from. Or the idea, that because of all of this, you read an article on the internet written by a person who shares a similar background to you.

We are of course talking about the kind of experience one gains on ones own.

Let me ask some questions? Skepticism most profound statement is that skeptics do not believe in absolutes, well would not believing in absolutes, be in and of itself an absolute and so negate the validity of skepticism???

How many major Universities in the world today have a department of Parapsychology?

And where can you get a PHD in parapsychology??

How many have a department of Skepticism and where can you get a PHD in Skepticism??

Now what ridiculous opinions are you talking about???

You are confused Ai about what is really significant and what is insignificant and the whole ideology that you seem to think makes sense, is what is left of the mess, people got tired of treating as valid after WWII. Online telekinesis experiments is simply one more step in helping mankind overcome what was part of a world wide massacre that left many cultures in a situation, in which ,individuals with clear paranormal ability became close to extinct (but not in all cultures). I see it this way, you who claim to live in Australia are one of the lucky ones, here is what I suggest; gain some real experience, spend about a year or two living with the Indigenous Aboriginals in your continent. Immerse yourself in the time honored traditions of those people, befriend them as of they were your own brother and sisters and familiarize yourself with the every detail of there day to day life.

Then come and tell me about your opinion.

AI had you actually read the threads I had posted in this forum you would have known that everything presented here has already been said (by me) so....

Any thoughts?

Don’t forget that whole science thing about the issue of proving or disproving……You know what I am talking about?? And one more time what you are sayng about the threads is incorrect, continuing to mention that is making you look bad. It is clear you have not read the threads and that you have based so much of your credibility of that point is making you look :wacko: just some freindly advice :P

Edited by Triad

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kay90

no one can move stuff without touching it , its impossible, has any one here ever done that or know of any one that can do those things? i think not!

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Ness of Psionix

no one can move stuff without touching it , its impossible, has any one here ever done that or know of any one that can do those things? i think not!

I can do it, and five of my friends can.

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delta107

I think you should not involve in the experiment, its just about the inferior capabilities of the "I" and just often leads to material perception...

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Virtual Particle

Delta107 this type of ability does not develop applying materialistic thinking, in fact you really have to get as far away as you can from such thoughts, if applying telekinesis what you are interested in.

Any thoughts?

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