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ramster83

Youth And God...

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Jodie.Lynne

But at the end of the day starlitkate, you still maintain that your religion is 'right' while others are deluded, correct?

THAT is what was meant by "owning god".

Christians and Muslims, moreso than any other faith, even Judiaism, seem to think they each have a "lock" on god, and even though they may "tolerate" other viewpoints, in their heart of hearts, they still think they are right.

Look at this statement:

, I know what the bible teaches me that noother God exsist and I'm gonna go by that, but I'm certainly not gonna flame it in your face and I'm not gonna tell you that what you beleive in is wrong. The bible tells me no other God exsist but him and so I beleive that BUT I won't sit and disregard you or your beleifs cuz I find it very disrespectful.

So twice in one paragraph you state "I beleive the bible when it tells me there is only one god, and I won't hold it against you that you don't"

And once again, we have "faith/belief" being touted as "Truth/fact".

Now please don't go off on me. Look at the statement OBJECTIVELY and tell me that isn't what you meant.

Is it any wonder that youths DON'T want to discuss religion?

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starlitkate

Yes that is what I meant. But I always hold good regard for your beliefs. In other words-I won't disrespect you if you don't beleive in God. The God I believe in loves all no matter what. I don't believe in being disrespectful towards non believers. I mean it's up to you if you don't believe in the God I do. I believe there is one God that created us and this earth but that don't make me a bad person for believing this.

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Jodie.Lynne

I never said it made you a bad person.

As I am rather fond of saying:

If your faith brings you comfort and peace, then it is the right relgion for you. Not necessarily for me however.

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clockworkgirl21

Teenagers aren't as impressionable at people like to think. I'm 17, and I quit believing in God because the religion just didn't make sense to me. I couldn't care less if it was "cool" or not. I've also heard people say, "Teenagers think nothing can destroy them, so they leave God." Um, no. I know I could be killed just as easily as the next person. I just go to my family and friends if I feel I need someone.

And no offense to Christians here! :P Different religions work for different people.

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chaostrom

At least half of today's youths that are "religious" only appear so on the outside. They pretend to believe because they have pressure from other influences in their lives (family more often than not). Also, I estimate that half the youth that really do believe in their religion do so because they have not seen the whole picture. Of course, I can't really say this for a fact, it's only an educated guess from what I've perceived. But, if it's worth anything, I sense I'm not too far from the truth...

Oh, and might I also point out:

...living is more and more about them...the youth of today is getting more materialistic and self centred...

That, is to be expected considering the way the world goes round these days. It's not the fault of the individual youths themselves, it's what they're taught.

Edited by chaostrom

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Celumnaz

As to the comment made by somebody about the "Christians don't own god" comment, with the reply "... thats the stupidest thing I've ever heard"

I can only say: you are dead wrong. Just the other day I had a christian on these boards tell me "your god doesn't exist".

Atheists (and other... spiritualists...) have gone out of their way to tell me that same thing "your god doesn't exsist", but they don't stop there, somehow it Has to get worked in that I'm a fool for believing it. If it's pointed out, they'll say "I/we respect your beliefs, why can't you respect mine/ours? See how your religion leads you to hate?" Christians don't have a monopoly on the "owning god" phenomenon. Or evangelism for that matter. We have some very evangelical atheists right here on these boards.

Following God, to my knowledge, has Never been "cool".

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Grandpa Greenman

You’re in the wrong place Ramster, here in Florida you can't spit without hitting a christian. Most of the teenagers I meet anymore are in college; the christians kids are very out spoken and put a lot of pressure on others to follow their way. Believe me they can be a real pain. They have out and out insulted me. Being their elder I have been known to put them in their place.

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Sherapy

Ramster this may be a bit harsh, but i don't think kids have any buisness worshipping or following anything except the loving guidance of a parent...Religon is a serious endeavor and until a kid has reached a certain level of maturity i would avoid religion as a way of life, I feel it would not help a child, its hard enough being a kid then to belong to a system that encourages you to be intolerant, confuses conditonal love as love, encourages you to feel badly about yourself...is of no service to a kid...they need love and support and guidance that shows confidence and self esteem a kid who has esteem of self will not get into trouble, i say this from experinecce my oldest is 22 years old....he is just now exploring the religious constructs....This is my persepctive just another view to look at each parent decides whats best and should....

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starlitkate

At least half of today's youths that are "religious" only appear so on the outside. They pretend to believe because they have pressure from other influences in their lives (family more often than not). Also, I estimate that half the youth that really do believe in their religion do so because they have not seen the whole picture. Of course, I can't really say this for a fact, it's only an educated guess from what I've perceived. But, if it's worth anything, I sense I'm not too far from the truth...

Oh, and might I also point out:

That, is to be expected considering the way the world goes round these days. It's not the fault of the individual youths themselves, it's what they're taught.

I see what you saying with the whole parents bringing them up in church but I doubt most of them do it for someone other than themselves. From most I've seen-I've seen them get out and do things for they're community and try to make a difference in peoples lives. And they don't have they're parents walking behind them all the steps of the way either. From what I've known-teenagers are rebellious, therefor I doubt half are actually listening to they're parents and attending youth meetings on they're parents demand. These children have been brought up to know God and his love. Christian teenagers are what makes up a big percentage of Christians. Trust me, if I didn't believe in God and with my parents being believers-then trust me I wouldn't be.

In fact being a teenager I didn't want nothing to do with church. I attended sunday and wensday nights at church because my mother dragged me literally by the hair of my head. I couldn't stand it and moved back in with my father that had abused me for years but at least I was big enough to fight my own fights with him so I figured that was better than living in a home that I was made against my free will to go to church.

Then by time I turned 18 I realized that all my mother was doing what she believed to be the right thing. The bible teaches to take your children to church and that was what she was going by. It wasn't being done to hurt me so I started volunteering to go. Grant ya I moved out on my own when I was 17 but I started going to church at 18 with her to try and give it a chance-and with my own free will and I found love in God. He healed me when I was going to need surgery on my arm. Nothing short from a miracle. I believe that no matter what you do-that every teenager and adult is big enough to make they're own decisions. And trust me, I'd fight constantly with my mother over this. It put a bad piece of history in our relationship so if anyone fights me and says I don't know what I'm talking about them believe me I do~~cuz I have fought both sides of the fence.

Edited by starlitkate

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Jodie.Lynne

Ramster this may be a bit harsh, but i don't think kids have any buisness worshipping or following anything except the loving guidance of a parent...Religon is a serious endeavor and until a kid has reached a certain level of maturity i would avoid religion as a way of life, I feel it would not help a child, its hard enough being a kid then to belong to a system that encourages you to be intolerant, confuses conditonal love as love, encourages you to feel badly about yourself...is of no service to a kid...they need love and support and guidance that shows confidence and self esteem a kid who has esteem of self will not get into trouble, i say this from experinecce my oldest is 22 years old....he is just now exploring the religious constructs....This is my persepctive just another view to look at each parent decides whats best and should....

I fully agree with you Sheri.

Concepts such as sin, eternal punishment, judgement day, and all the rest is too complex and convoluted for children.

I once knew a child who was fearful, despondent and withdrawn. It turns out his parents told him about Santa and the kid was a basket case because he believed the 'jolly old man' was watching his every move.

Now imagine that child was also taught about a 'loving' god that also watched him, and additionally, would throw him into hell for being disobedient. Imagine what would be going through that kids mind.

Of course, some children are more advanced, and can handle such topics a little easier, but it is still a quagmire for young minds.

Now, think upon this: There are many people, particularly fundamental christians, who homeschool their children. I knew such a couple, and their response when I asked why, was that they didn't want their son to be exposed to "wicked teachings". Imagine that. They wish to teach their child their POV without any outside influences. And while they must maintain a certain state mandated teaching course, one wonders what happens when they reach the module on the formation of the earth.

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ramster83

Mmmm..Yeh well...everything works in moderation...including religion. ;)

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chaostrom
Ramster this may be a bit harsh, but i don't think kids have any buisness worshipping or following anything except the loving guidance of a parent...Religon is a serious endeavor and until a kid has reached a certain level of maturity i would avoid religion as a way of life, I feel it would not help a child, its hard enough being a kid then to belong to a system that encourages you to be intolerant, confuses conditonal love as love, encourages you to feel badly about yourself...is of no service to a kid...they need love and support and guidance that shows confidence and self esteem a kid who has esteem of self will not get into trouble, i say this from experinecce my oldest is 22 years old....he is just now exploring the religious constructs....This is my persepctive just another view to look at each parent decides whats best and should....

I agree with the essence of what you said here, Sympa Sheri, but rather than religion I think people should be taught to value truth. Growing up with such a value, they would naturally seek truth, and that would be of great benefit to everyone... Theoretically.

I see what you saying with the whole parents bringing them up in church but I doubt most of them do it for someone other than themselves. From most I've seen-I've seen them get out and do things for they're community and try to make a difference in peoples lives. And they don't have they're parents walking behind them all the steps of the way either.

It's not necessary to be religious to do good. Some of those would be genuine believers, of course, but there could be a number that are using their parents' religion as a front to do good.

From what I've known-teenagers are rebellious, therefor I doubt half are actually listening to they're parents and attending youth meetings on they're parents demand.

Not all teenagers are rebellious. That's more of a stereotype than a reality from what I've seen. Besides, they could be attending youth meetings to get away from their parents who force their beliefs on the youth in question.

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Sherapy

Mmmm..Yeh well...everything works in moderation...including religion. ;)

Ramster, it is never a good idea to teach that there is one and only one religon that has all the answers and is the only way, that is a blueprint for serious trouble,It will only hamper and cripple a child, this world is full of many religons and people and cultures they must be taught of all beleif constructs to get along, to be at peace....One of the most harmful things we have done is teach exclusivist concepts....I do beleve a child should be aware of all the religions but to be expected to follow and choose is not the work of a child, they do not even know who they are let alone that they should define themselves by a dogma....Kids are sponges and they do not have the awareness to know that 'god' is a metaphore, that the devil is a metaphore...many a child has layed awake a night scared of some diety in the sky watching them, or crying afraid they would die and go to hell...this is the reality of religion and kids and how many kids are left there to cry themselves to sleep from 'well meaning parents"???? alot more than are comforted.....

J I home school for the opposite reason to explore all cultures all beleifs all paths i find the system to create division, i want my son to know about buddhism and christianity etc, not to choose but to understand others and thus create peace, the more you understand things the better you can get along...I do not agree with the reliogus home schooling isolation teaching ...It is creating great problems for the kids and their ability to get along....This is IMO and I know its harsh and i mean no harm but i do think this needs to be said.....

Edited by Sympa Sheri

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Bella-Angelique

There are many people, particularly fundamental christians, who homeschool their children. I knew such a couple, and their response when I asked why, was that they didn't want their son to be exposed to "wicked teachings". Imagine that. They wish to teach their child their POV without any outside influences. And while they must maintain a certain state mandated teaching course, one wonders what happens when they reach the module on the formation of the earth.

I can answer a very small part of that. When they reach college some become hysterical and actually stomp out of the classroom, unfortunately.

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zandore

.....and I'm not gonna tell you that what you beleive in is wrong. The bible tells me no other God exsist but him and so I beleive that BUT......

Where in the Bible does it say this?

If that was true.....why is the #1 commandment: You shall have no other gods before me

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Sherapy

chaostrom, that is brilliant, I so agree we should teach seeking truth, gathering truth....Very good point.... :wub:

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Kalevipoeg

I personally think one is cooler when they can be true to themselves and proudly state that they believe in and love God and not care about what the person next to them will say or think....theres a lot of pressure on youth nowadays and the young worry about what others will think of them to the point where they'd drop God just to be part of the "cool" crowd.

I personally think one is cooler when they can be true to themselves and proudly state that they do not believe in god even though the majority of people his age and all the other ages do believe in god and make it their life goal to not stop bothering him until he becomes a believer too.

My point is that it's the non-believers that need to watch what they are saying and believing/not believing and that it's the believers that are the cool crowd, the accepted ones...

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chaostrom
Ramster, it is never a good idea to teach that there is one and only one religon that has all the answers and is the only way, that is a blueprint for serious trouble,It will only hamper and cripple a child, this world is full of many religons and people and cultures they must be taught of all beleif constructs to get along, to be at peace....One of the most harmful things we have done is teach exclusivist concepts....I do beleve a child should be aware of all the religions but to be expected to follow and choose is not the work of a child, they do not even know who they are let alone that they should define themselves by a dogma....Kids are sponges and they do not have the awareness to know that 'god' is a metaphore, that the devil is a metaphore...many a child has layed awake a night scared of some diety in the sky watching them, or crying afraid they would die and go to hell...this is the reality of religion and kids and how many kids are left there to cry themselves to sleep from 'well meaning parents"???? alot more than are comforted.....

Sooo true. It's these exclusivist concepts that breed some of the most intolerence and hatred in this world. Not only that, because they have no other views, when they have kids they'll pass that along. I'm quite tempted to call it an inherited disease...

chaostrom, that is brilliant, I so agree we should teach seeking truth, gathering truth....Very good point.... :wub:

Thanks :) . I really think that if the world is going to be changed for the better, it needs to be re-worked from bottom up. Start over from the foundations of society. It just isn't possible the way it is now. Modern civilisation puts the greatest things, like truth and tolerence, second to power and wealth, which are not nearly so important. That, I sense, is where the root to some of the recurring problems lie.

I personally think one is cooler when they can be true to themselves and proudly state that they do not believe in god even though the majority of people his age and all the other ages do believe in god and make it their life goal to not stop bothering him until he becomes a believer too.

Honesty to self is another thing I think children should be taught. If one cannot be honest with themselves, how can they be trusted to be honest with another?

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Beckys_Mom

Ramster this may be a bit harsh, but i don't think kids have any buisness worshipping or following anything except the loving guidance of a parent...

You hit the nail on the head there :yes: If there was more of this...there could beless violence.....................what I mean by that is...............when you think about some of those that have religion beaten into them...tortured by their religious parents...it has darkened their minds and these same kids have grown up to torture others and kill in some cases....you only have to read TRUE stories like the one I posted up before about Ed Gein...and that story speak for itself....because if his mother had of been loving and caring..and didnt torture him with religion ....he may never have became the monster he did that made him famous...now look...hollywood are making a fortune from cases like this :blink:

Before any religious person jumps on me for the above post...take a closer look I did only say...some of those!! ^_^

In fact being a teenager I didn't want nothing to do with church. I attended sunday and wensday nights at church because my mother dragged me literally by the hair of my head. I couldn't stand it and moved back in with my father that had abused me for years but at least I was big enough to fight my own fights with him so I figured that was better than

Tough love??...see you where just a child.....you didnt understand religion.......you where dragged there by the hair on your head....NO KID should be dragged ANYWHERE by the hair ..thats awful......

Any wonder you wanted to get away............ok granted you later thought...she was doing it for your own good..................but hey I try and tell myself the same thing...when i think of the time when my father would have beaten us......but NO I am wrong....cuz when I think of it....he could have treated and handled us a lot differently........therefore....you mother...if she had of handled you a lot better ....and was kinder and a lot more gental towards you as a kid...then maybe you would have went along...without being hurt like that

When you became 18...did she continue to drag you to the church...or did she back off??

IF she backed off and mellowed with you...thats WHY you started to go ...you Volunteered ...because there was NO pressure.........see what I am saying??

Kate...I am not a christian...but I have my lil Becky baptized as a christian....she gets taken to church every Sunday...but if she tells me...she dont wanna go...I wont drag her there by the hair or hurt her in any way................because I dont want her to hold that memory of me...and hold it against me in years to come............because I hold it against my father, still to this very day...I have forgave him....but I wont foreget it....I tell myself...it was done for my own good...but I still hate him for it...meaning I hate what he did..............If you want a child to like going to church...then you should make it look like a fun experience for that child......you should also make that child believe religion is Good...God is good...and tell them things like...you will get rewarded for doing good...........and yea afterwards reward them...for doing good..............thats works IMO...but not violence...nuts to violence...you get nowhere with violence..PERIOD!!

If Becky comes to me and asks me about the bible..I will pass her on to someone that I KNOW will let her see it can be a fun experience.......(after all I cant do it..cuzI dont believe int the bible...but I wont push my beliefs on to Becky) ....and that person will get Becky to like it and have fun...maybe look forward to Sunday School.......who knows eh?? But I'll be DAMNED if I let anyone hurt her to get her to go to church...over my dead body...no kid deserves that

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Sherapy

Bm and chaosstrom great points on both posts and too often as paretns we don't realize how critical and important our guidance is, Bm you made a great point, children that are tortured and forced religous beleifs are more prone to killer behavior...most serial killers have had just this sort of upbringing.. the neighbooor hood bully is being bullied at home.....How many parents use name calling as a way to guide a child the majority and then they wonder why kids are so cruel... call each other names....a child is socialized in the home and takes it too the world that is a fact and that is where change starts......

chao.. I hope you are a parent or plan to be we need yor vision in the world, i like that you are optimistic and se youself as the solution.... and really get that our kids are our future..hats off to you..i really enjoy your posts..... :wub:

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Beckys_Mom

Yea and I wanna go on record saying.......................NO child should be forced into religion..and NO child should get hurt in the process of it...thats UNFAIR and so freaking wrong...ohh so wrong.....

Cuz when you bully a child and hurt it over the sake of religion...you dont deserve to have that child ...and you lack understanding of children..you FORGET what its like to be a child...and how a childs mind works......shame on ANYONE that hurts children

Children need LOVE..and lots of it...they need YOUR full attention...they need guidence.........they need laughter......hugs...they need their parents to tell them..I love you :wub: ...and when they do good they need a hug and perhapps a reward for their good doings..this HELPS a child feel its ok to be GOOD...its great and rewarding...............then they grow up loving themselves :wub:

BUT..when you bully a child...hurt that child and force your beliefs on to that poor child.............and that child searches in the dark corners of its mind and grows into a monster........................you CREATED the monster.....some kids will not turn into the monster..noooooo they just either go crazy and wind up in a mental home...and some take their own lives..............so if a parent wants their kids to be like that...then bully and hurt them...torture them ...scar them mentally for life and you will get a horrid result that ends in TEARS :blink: thats MY OPINION

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kaknelson

Yea and I wanna go on record saying.......................NO child should be forced into religion..and NO child should get hurt in the process of it...thats UNFAIR and so freaking wrong...ohh so wrong.....

Cuz when you bully a child and hurt it over the sake of religion...you dont deserve to have that child ...and you lack understanding of children..you FORGET what its like to be a child...and how a childs mind works......shame on ANYONE that hurts children

Children need LOVE..and lots of it...they need YOUR full attention...they need guidence.........they need laughter......hugs...they need their parents to tell them..I love you :wub: ...and when they do good they need a hug and perhapps a reward for their good doings..this HELPS a child feel its ok to be GOOD...its great and rewarding...............then they grow up loving themselves :wub:

BUT..when you bully a child...hurt that child and force your beliefs on to that poor child.............and that child searches in the dark corners of its mind and grows into a monster........................you CREATED the monster.....some kids will not turn into the monster..noooooo they just either go crazy and wind up in a mental home...and some take their own lives..............so if a parent wants their kids to be like that...then bully and hurt them...torture them ...scar them mentally for life and you will get a horrid result that ends in TEARS :blink: thats MY OPINION

I agree BM. :wub: Brilliantly said. :D

Love is the answer, there is no other. ONE LOVE.

No one should be forced into a religon, one should find out on their own who they truely are, and that in this world we do stand alone. But being in solitude, one gains wisdom, and may realize that they were never alone after all.

And yes,

In the words of 2pac, "The hate you give little infants fuc*s everybody" (THUGLIFE)

Edited by Kaknelson

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Beckys_Mom

I agree BM. :wub: Brilliantly said. :D

Love is the answer, there is no other. ONE LOVE.

No one should be forced into a religon, one should find out on their own who they truely are, and that in this world we do stand alone. But being in solitude, one gains wisdom, and may realize that they were never alone after all.

And yes,

In the words of 2pac, "The hate you give little infants fuc*s everybody" (THUGLIFE)

:clap: here here lol

Another thing is not just religion.its other things..its just plain bullying an infant/kid PERIOD..beating them up ect...so freaking wrong....no kid deserves that

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Sherapy

Count me in BM incredible post, very moving and very real....

You cannot love your child too much, you cannot hug your child too much...i am saddened that the bible actually advocates hurting kids and limiting love for fear of spoiling them.I was raised in relign Bm used the correct words terrorized by religion my parents thought they were good parents too they thought they were doing the 'right" thing......As a child of abuse I was a luckier one I was removed from the enviorment and sent to my grandparents i can tell you that love saved my life.....Love is the only answer and it should be sought out in every situation..It works....i am a mother who parents in non violence that means no punishing none of it...my kids are great kids because of it ...My childhood inspired me to be a the difference and I use my life for that..... I shared this to let you know i am no victum I have found value and have used it too stop the legacy of abuse in our family line its over no other child will be hurt in our bloodline...... :tu:

Edited by Sympa Sheri

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ramster83

So what do you say when your kid comes up to you and says "So how did i get here and why am i here?" . I remember asking my parents how i got here - and i didnt mean to get the response that i did- thats when they told me allll about sex! I was like EWW NO!!!! STOP! :cry:

See what i'll do with my child is force nothing upon him/her when she is young...yet as the child matures i will ask THEM the question for a change...I will just say "whats your idea on life"...That way they can give you their honest opinion that you or i as a parent would have to accept.

I will surely mention religions to my Child and be very simple about it...I'll say you dont have to follow any religion- but go with your heart....Theres nothing more bad to do with a child than to pressure them and i have a muslim dad and christian mum and thank God none of them pressured me with their faiths and now im a God believing boy...not necessarily in a "religion" but i believe...cause its in my heart not force fed. :tu:

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