What if God is the Evil One

[luckycanucky]

lucky, this is the point that I don't get.

Why do you need a bible and a god to tell you "do unto others" "Don't kill"

To me if the book has proven that it is False and wrong and no longer applies to modern times then it is ridiculous to suggest that it was written by a deity for the world to follow.

People don't follow the book because they think God wrote it they follow these books to allign themselves with a group of people to have community. Otherwise why not shut yer yap and go be Christian all quiet by yourself?

And Evil was not a concept invented by God. Evil was a concept invented by people who believe in God, weird eh? Evil is what people have done with God throughout the ages.

Well, state law has derived from biblical law as far as some crimes (theft, murder etc) goes. Of course theft and murder are bad things. No, we don't need the bible to tell us that. But maybe the bible was the one of the first books that specified laws and legal precedints about how to treat people and that's what current laws are based on. But I'm not a lawyer or judge so I'm not the one to be discussing this kind of thing in depth. Hell does sound a lot more scary than "10 months probation" though. Which is why it's a fear tactic in the righteous arsenal.

How can you say what people do or don't do in a place you don't go (their church) about stuff you don't believe in (god's words)? Many people have just said a bunch of times they DO follow BECAUSE God's involved in it. Why should christians not speak out for what they believe in? You want closet christianity?

And some people who believe in god continue to claim unbelievers are evil on their way to hell. And others just try to convert you to the cool side, like it's some funky club everyone should want to join. heh. Whoo! Come pray with us! We're hip, we're happenin'! God loves everyone! Even you! Come on down! It's fun! Whee! Party! Who brought the pretzels...

[seanph]

Anyway, on the topic of homosexuality - without going into the argument of whether a gay peerson is born that way or chooses that way (or more likely a mix of both genetics and circumstance), I do think that the act itself is wrong as far as the Bible is concerned. But (and read this next part before everyone starts going off at me for being intolerant), but I will not and do not condemn anyone for choosing to live as such. Hell, one of my favourite movies is "In-and-OUt" - loved it, totally. I have some very good friends who are gay. They know my religious beliefs, and my stance, but because we accept each other as who we are, such a belief does not interfere with our friendship. Being gay isn't this super-sin that it's made out to be. For some reason it gets singled out in debates such as this, but the fact is that the Bible never singles it out. It's always mentioned among a list of other sins - and not even at the top of the list as "the worst of the worst" or any such. It's just another way that humans can go against God. Remember that as a Christian, I believe all of us have sinned, myself included. It's very hard to condemn someone when you sit there and say "I've sinned also".

Need more people of faith like you my friend!

[Beckys_Mom]

Need more people of faith like you my friend!

Yea it took him a long time to reach that far but in the end he got there

[+Link of Hyrule]

Thanks guys - I think there's a few more like me that than you might believe. And BM, I don't want to start an argument since we seem to be agreeing here (*blinks* BM n PA agreeing?, lol) but I had a quick search through my post history filtering for the word "homosexuality", and I can't say as I've ever posted differently concerning gays and lesbians. A few of our arguments we've had in the past revolved around whether a person is born gay or becomes gay by choice, but I think the core message has always been there. Maybe I expressed it a little different, I dunno. Anyway, back to you guys now.

Regards, PA

[Beckys_Mom]

Thanks guys - I think there's a few more like me that than you might believe. And BM, I don't want to start an argument since we seem to be agreeing here (*blinks* BM n PA agreeing?, lol) but I had a quick search through my post history filtering for the word "homosexuality", and I can't say as I've ever posted differently concerning gays and lesbians. A few of our arguments we've had in the past revolved around whether a person is born gay or becomes gay by choice, but I think the core message has always been there. Maybe I expressed it a little different, I dunno. Anyway, back to you guys now.

Regards, PA

I was just agreeing with sean besides YES I have agreed with you before a few times..I know I have..its all good

[zandore]

The scripture's you quote are pertaining to strict Hebrew laws of that time. God did not want any sort of evil in Israel. Not only because these are His people but he must prepare a 100% pure race for his son to be born from.

There are a number of verses about homosexuality in the NT so it looks like that is another thing God could not do.

Ok, well then I guess it is currently going on. But this doesn't happen in the United States or Isreal.

Google "godhatesfags".....

[zandore]

The correct translation of "evil" in this passage isn't what we call "evil."

The hebrew word for evil in Hebrew has several different meanings for "evil," including unpleasant, disaster, calamity, chaos, distress....etc.

What version of the bible is the scripture you quoted? In the NIV it reads..

"I form the light and creat darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things." (Isiah 45:7)

So we see here that the correct translation is "disaster," and not actually "evil" as in which the KJV suggests.

Yeshayahu (Isaiah) 45:7 (Judaica Press Complete Tanach)

Who forms light and creates darkness, Who makes peace and creates evil; I am the Lord, Who makes all these.

chabad.org

I suggest you read this post of mine (a chat between PA and I): My Webpage

It will enlighten you as it did PA

[seanph]

You mean these, Z?

God also created everything (Gen 1, Prov 26:10, Col 1:16, Eph 3:9, Rev 4:11, etc.). Including evil (Isa 45:7, Amos 3:6, Lam 3:38).

The Bible says that God is omnipotent; he can do anything (Gen 17:1, 18:14, Ex 6:3, Job 42:2, Luke 1:37, Mark 10:27, Rev 19:6). Man's fate is in God's hands (1 Sam 2:6-7).

God is omniscient (Ps 139:1-6, Prov 15:3, 5:21, Isa 44:7, Matt 12:25, and many others).

God is also good, just and righteous (Deut 32:4, Dan 9:14, and many others).

*Isaiah 45:7 (KJV): I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and CREATE EVIL: I Yahweh do all these things.

*Lamentations 3:38: Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not EVIL and good?

*Jeremiam 26:3: If so be they will hearken, and turn every man from his evil way, that I may repent me of the EVIL, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings.

*Jeremiah 36:3 It may be that the house of Judah will hear all the EVIL which I intend to do to them, so that every one may turn from his evil way, and that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin.

*Jeremiah 32:42 For thus says Yahweh: Just as I have brought all this great EVIL upon this people, so I will bring upon them all the good that I promise them.

*Amos 3:6 Does EVIL befall a city, unless Yahweh has done it?

*Jeremiah 11:11 Therefore, thus says Yahweh, Behold, I am bringing EVIL upon them which they cannot escape; though they cry to me, I will not listen to them.

*Jeremiah 14:16 And the people to whom they are prophesying, Are cast into out-places of Jerusalem, Because of the famine, and of the sword, And they have none burying them, Them, their wives, and their sons, and their daughters, And I have poured out upon them this EVIL. (YLT)

*Jeremiah 18:11 Now, therefore, say to the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem: 'Thus says Yahweh, Behold, I am shaping EVIL against you and devising a plan against you. Return, every one from his evil way, and amend your ways and your doings.

*Jeremiah 19:3 You shall say, 'Hear the word of Yahweh, O kings of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem. Thus says Yahweh of hosts, the Elohim of Israel, Behold, I am bringing such EVIL upon this place that the ears of every one who hears of it will tingle.

*Jeremiah 19:15 Thus says Yahweh of hosts, the Elohim of Israel, Behold, I am bringing upon this city and upon all its towns all the EVIL that I have pronounced against it, because they have stiffened their neck, refusing to hear my words.

*Jeremiah 23:12 Therefore their way shall be to them like slippery paths in the darkness, into which they shall be driven and fall; for I will bring EVIL upon them in the year of their punishment, says Yahweh.

*Jeremiah 26:13 Now therefore amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of Yahweh your Elohim, and Yahweh will repent of the EVIL which he has pronounced against you.

*Jeremiah 35:17 Therefore, thus says Yahweh, the Elohim of hosts, the Elohim of Israel: Behold, I am bringing on Judah and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem all the EVIL that I have pronounced against them; because I have spoken to them and they have not listened, I have called to them and they have not answered.

*Jeremiah 36:31 And I will punish him and his offspring and his servants for their iniquity; I will bring upon them, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and upon the men of Judah, all the EVIL that I have pronounced against them, but they would not hear.

*Jeremiah 40:2 The captain of the guard took Jeremiah and said to him, "Yahweh your Elohim pronounced this EVIL against this place;

*Jeremiah 42:10 If you will remain in this land, then I will build you up and not pull you down; I will plant you, and not pluck you up; for I repent of the EVIL which I did to you.

*Jeremiah 42:17 All the men who set their faces to go to Egypt to live there shall die by the sword, by famine, and by pestilence; they shall have no remnant or survivor from the EVIL which I will bring upon them.

*Jeremiah 44:2 Thus says Yahweh of hosts, the Elohim of Israel: You have seen all the EVIL that I brought upon Jerusalem and upon all the cities of Judah. Behold, this day they are a desolation, and no one dwells in them,

*Jeremiah 45:5 And do you seek great things for yourself? Seek them not; for, behold, I am bringing EVIL upon all flesh, says Yahweh; but I will give you your life as a prize of war in all places to which you may go.

*Jeremiah 49:37 I will terrify Elam before their enemies, and before those who seek their life; I will bring EVIL upon them, my fierce anger, says Yahweh. I will send the sword after them, until I have consumed them;

*Jeremiah 51:64 and say, 'Thus shall Babylon sink, to rise no more, because of the EVIL that I am bringing upon her.'" Thus far are the words of Jeremiah.

*Ezekiel 6:10 And they shall know that I am Yahweh; I have not said in vain that I would do this EVIL to them.

*Micah 2:3 Therefore thus says Yahweh: Behold, against this family I am devising EVIL, from which you cannot remove your necks; and you shall not walk haughtily, for it will be an evil time.

*1 Kings 21:29 Have you seen how Ahab has humbled himself before me? Because he has humbled himself before me, I will not bring the EVIL in his days; but in his son's days I will bring the EVIL upon his house.

*2 Chronicles 34:24 Thus says Yahweh, Behold, I will bring EVIL upon this place and upon its inhabitants, all the curses that are written in the book which was read before the king of Judah.

*2 Chronicles 34:28 Behold, I will gather you to your fathers, and you shall be gathered to your grave in peace, and your eyes shall not see all the EVIL which I will bring upon this place and its inhabitants.'" And they brought back word to the king.

*1 Samuel 16:23 And whenever the EVIL spirit from [the] Elohim was upon Saul, David took the lyre and played it with his hand; so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the EVIL spirit departed from him.

*1 Samuel 18:10 And on the morrow an EVIL spirit from [the] Elohim rushed upon Saul, and he raved within his house, while David was playing the lyre, as he did day by day. Saul had his spear in his hand;

*1 Samuel 19:9 Then an EVIL spirit from Yahweh came upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his spear in his hand; and David was playing the lyre.

*1 Samuel 16:15 And Saul's servants said to him, "Behold now, an EVIL spirit from [the] Elohim is tormenting you.

*1 Samuel 16:14 Now the Spirit of Yahweh departed from Saul, and an EVIL spirit from Yahweh tormented him.

*Micah 1:12 For the inhabitants of Maroth wait anxiously for good, because EVIL has come down from Yahweh to the gate of Jerusalem.

*2 Samuel 12:11-12 Thus says Yahweh, 'Behold, I will raise up EVIL against you out of your own house; and I will take your wives before your eyes, and give them to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of this sun. For you did it secretly; but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun.'

*Judges 9:23 And [the] Elohim sent an EVIL spirit between Abim'elech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abim'elech;

*1 Kings 14:10 therefore behold, I will bring EVIL upon the house of Jerobo'am, and will cut off from Jerobo'am every male, both bond and free in Israel, and will utterly consume the house of Jerobo'am, as a man burns up dung until it is all gone.

*2 Kings 21:12 therefore thus says Yahweh, the Elohim of Israel, Behold, I am bringing upon Jerusalem and Judah such EVIL that the ears of every one who hears of it will tingle.

*Isaiah 31:2 And He also [is] wise, and bringeth in EVIL, And His words He hath not turned aside, And He hath risen against a house of evil doers, And against the help of workers of iniquity. (YLT)

God most certainly does evil.

Kindly,

Sean

[Beckys_Mom]

Anything I say on this matter is automatically blocked out on this matter not because of this subject but because I am a Christian and you hate me for it.

I don't think it was. Does this make me a bad person

Dude he/she NEVER once said they hated you for being a christian...now you are just trying to make things look bad for your sake...where you hoping someone would read that and jump in and say...leave poor Amal alone he is just a poor christian guy......errrrrr NOO because people here can read andcan see that you where trying to twist his/her words...quit it already geezzz!! besides it is just YOU that she/he is debating with ...not others at this point..

So true that thinks (like me and a number of others) that it is sick to put gays to death..and its WRONG to show hate towards them...and you had this to say......

Just curious. Are you a gay rights activist? I'm not trying to make fun or anything I just wonder because you bring up the whole "gay" word alot and how the bible is against it.

true that replies...

OF course I am a gay rights activist. We all should be. Gay people are human beings and because of superstition they have been regulated to second class citizens in this world that need to fight for their due rights. They should not have to prove their worth in order to be given the same rights as anyone else.

You can scrap the whole pile of rights to the side with a seperate but equal bit which is hideous but a loophole.

BUT as was pointed out earlier, that in the military if you are gay you can be Court Martialed.

Its disgusting.

Way to go true that

Does any country in the world put a gay man on trial and convict them of being homosexual and sentence them to death?

woohhoo good job I.Friend got in there with that one....LOL she gave you the answer...then you say..ohh but it dont happen in the USA...............dude it dont happen here in the UK or Ireland either...but that dont mean it dont happen....we watch the news ever watch it yourself?? maybe you should and then you might learn a lot more!!

there's more....

Post no 39 says it all

QUOTE(truethat @ Aug 24 2006, 06:57 PM)

If it only applied back then its STILL FRICKIN" WRONG

your responce is....

I don't think it was. Does this make me a bad person?

so you DONT think its wrong to put gays to death for being gay.........gee if I didnt know any better you sound (key words ..you SOUND not claiming you ARE one) ...like an extremist...if you are an extremist.(key word there is IF) ..dont go calling yourself a christian...cuz real christians dont think its OK to put gays to death for being gay......real christians believe God takes care of those that they feel sins...not other humans... I should know my mother happens to be one!!!

God considers homosexuallity as a sin. It's just like any other sin including like swearing or stealing or two heterosexuals engaging in pre-marital sex.

So....appart from you believing homosexuality is a sin...........whats so horrible about pre-maritial sex?? I can dare say that there are millions of christians/catholics that all preach that pre-maritail sex is so so wrong....and every last one of those people all have done it...there is no way I would believe that they havent...after all they arent going to announce it in public and if it is sooooooooo wrong..well then WHY did the minister WELCOME me and my partner to JOIN his church?? IF its so wrong...and NO he didn't say...you can join the church..IF you get married or IF you repent......NOOO....he said we where welcome either way..no strings attached..........he was the same minister that baptized my lil becky....and he knew fine well Gary and I are not married.........so no IMO its NOT a sin..

..heck Jesus parents mary & joesph where not married either..ohh but wait she was concieved without sin....one day her and joesph where going about their business...and next day she woke up pregnant........

...her partner Joesph..surely like any man MUST have been a tad suspicius LOL...like--> "yo Mary where on earth did you get that bump from..who is he and where can I find the creep" Even back then men where men and yes they got jealous..and yes they fought over women..and YEs I would dare say if their female got up the duff ..and he saw it wasnt his kid...I would dare say all hell would have broken loose!!!.............and I couldnt see a man swallowing the story that some angle came to his partner in a dream...and BINGO..she is preggers?? And she is to have the son of God?? If I fell preggers now and told gary the same kind of story...I would love to see the look on his face <--not that look it would be more like--> followed by --> :angry2: lol

Why would he need to make more people when there were plenty on the earth?

Hmm why didnt he just create a lot of people from the start....are you saying he was too lazy?? After all didnt he create Adam so quickly from DUST...yes DUST...so since he is the all powerful...then it should have been wee buns for him to simply create more humans from DUST..and spread those humans all over the earth....

And who are you to say what is right and wrong?

ohh I love this one...LOL so you have NEVER said what is right and what is wrong?? ANYONE can say what they feel is right and wrong...or is this a case of you getting at her for standing up for gays and saying it is WRONG to kill them for being gay??

Edited August 25, 2006 by Beckys_Mom

[zandore]

You mean these, Z?

Shame on you.....you missed one!

Job 42:11

Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.

I thought I taught you better that that!

[truethat]

Why thanks Becky's Mom! Its always reassuring to hear someone understands your point.

Lets just say I am highly suspicious of Christians and others who are religious.

And just so you all know its the Leviticus that sets gays apart. I have argued many times that being Gay doesn't even make the top ten commandments. Being gay is a sin and so is fornication. There's no difference. But that's not true.

I dare any Christian to find any preacher who will agree to that statement.

What the preacher will say is that being Gay is an abomination in the eyes of God and no other sin in the bible is referred to this way.

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. Leviticus 20:13

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Leviticus 18:22

And the thing is the people that are more open minded are the ones not taking the bible so literally. So it seems the more you get AWAY from the bible and into society, the less evil you get.

ETA

I believe I read somewhere that 79% of people in prision are Christian and WERE Christian before they got to prison. 1% of people in prison are atheist.

So there goes your theory about extreme atheists. Also the reason you mentioned the same thing twice is that you don't have that many purely Atheist reasons for mass murder the way you do in Religion.

Edited August 25, 2006 by truethat

[Hermetic Hermit]

@ sean & z

Exodus 32:14 "And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people."

My personal favourite, I believe it has been left out as well.

Edited August 25, 2006 by Hermetic Hermit

[zandore]

IX. DOMESTIC RELATIONS--Crimes of Immorality

1. Immorality condemmed by God.

1. Adultry

* OT=Ex. 20:14; Lev. 20:10; Deut. 5:18; 22:22-24; Prov. 6:25-33; Ez. 22:11; Mal. 3:5

* NT=Matt. 5:27; 28, 32; Mark 10:11-12; Luke 16:18; 18:20; Rom. 7:3; I Cor. 6:9; Heb; 13:4; Rev. 2:22

2. Fornication

* NT=Acts 5:27-28, 32; I Cor. 6:9, 13, 18; 7:2; 10:8; II Cor. 12:21; Gal. 5:16-21; Eph. 5:3; Col. 3:5-6; I Thess. 4:3; Jude 7; Rev. 2:20-21

3. Homosexuality and lesbianism

* OT=Gen. 19:4-7; Lev. 18:22; 20:13, 23; Deut. 23:17; Judges 19:22, 23

* NT=Rom. 1:24-28, 32; I Cor. 6:9; I Tim. 1:9-10

4. Incest

* OT=Lev. 18:6-18; 20:11-12, 14, 17, 19-23; Deut. 22:30; 27:20, 22, 23

5. Lying with beasts

* OT=Ex. 22:19; Lev. 18:23; 20:15-16, 23; Deut. 27:21

6. Seduction

* OT=Ex. 22:16-17; Deut. 22:28-29

7. Rape

* OT=Deut. 22:25-27

More to the list: IX. DOMESTIC RELATIONS--Crimes of Immorality

BIBLE LAW INDEX

[zandore]

Exodus 32:14 "And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people."

My personal favourite, I believe it has been left out as well.

I am starting to think Sean is slipping up too much

[truethat]

IX. DOMESTIC RELATIONS--Crimes of Immorality

1. Immorality condemmed by God.

1. Adultry

* OT=Ex. 20:14; Lev. 20:10; Deut. 5:18; 22:22-24; Prov. 6:25-33; Ez. 22:11; Mal. 3:5

* NT=Matt. 5:27; 28, 32; Mark 10:11-12; Luke 16:18; 18:20; Rom. 7:3; I Cor. 6:9; Heb; 13:4; Rev. 2:22

2. Fornication

* NT=Acts 5:27-28, 32; I Cor. 6:9, 13, 18; 7:2; 10:8; II Cor. 12:21; Gal. 5:16-21; Eph. 5:3; Col. 3:5-6; I Thess. 4:3; Jude 7; Rev. 2:20-21

3. Homosexuality and lesbianism

* OT=Gen. 19:4-7; Lev. 18:22; 20:13, 23; Deut. 23:17; Judges 19:22, 23

* NT=Rom. 1:24-28, 32; I Cor. 6:9; I Tim. 1:9-10

4. Incest

* OT=Lev. 18:6-18; 20:11-12, 14, 17, 19-23; Deut. 22:30; 27:20, 22, 23

5. Lying with beasts

* OT=Ex. 22:19; Lev. 18:23; 20:15-16, 23; Deut. 27:21

6. Seduction

* OT=Ex. 22:16-17; Deut. 22:28-29

7. Rape

* OT=Deut. 22:25-27

More to the list: IX. DOMESTIC RELATIONS--Crimes of Immorality

BIBLE LAW INDEX

Now I have to pause on this and point out as Becky's Mom pointed out that fornication is committed by everyone out there. In fact fornication is the msot likely of these crimes to be committed by members of the parish. YET do churches pound down the laws and try to force people to stop doing this? No. Because if they did no one would come to that church any more. The reason churches have gotten lenient is because reality is overtaking them.

Homosexuality is usually the one last thing out there that is treated this way. I mean the church has more tolerance for pedophile priests than it does for homosexuals.

People who "have friends that are gay" or say "I think its a sin but I'm tolerant" are missing the big picture.

You are wrong. Its not a sin. Its not a crime and your INTOLERANCE should be for the books that perpetuate this crap.

[Amalgamut]

I assume you believe that god does not create gay people, yes? Like to explain why he creates hermaphrodites?

Sean

I'm repeating myself here.... God didn't create "all people" so to speak. He created three people. Adam Eve and Christ.

The Hermaphrodite issue can be a factor of millions if not billions of things going wrong with a woman with a baby in the womb. Such as drugs or drinking during pregnancy.....smoking...etc...etc..etc..etc..

[zandore]

You are wrong. Its not a sin.

Hi True

Check my post history if you think I agree with the Biblical attitudes.....

My post history

Also keep an eye on my SIG.

Its not a crime and your INTOLERANCE should be for the books that perpetuate this crap.

I have been saying that for years now and I am told I am one of the more.....vocal here on these boards about the intolerances in the Bible.

Friends?

[truethat]

oh I didn't mean you Zandore. You crack me up with your God Tests. Nah hope it didn't come across that way.

I meant the universal YOU. Not YOU.

[Amalgamut]

Why you brought that up I dont know but ya its wrong IMO ( meaning IMO)

My main reason for bringing that up is because "truthat" said that the bible is completely false. She thinks its all wrong. I asked her if she thought beastiality was wrong (which we see the bible thinks it is too) and she agreed. So therefore some of the bible must be right, no?

There was another point I was getting to but it's not comparing beastiality to homosexuality and if anyone here thinks I think they are the same in anyway you are wrong.

Bec...ause....you believe homosexuality is..................WRONG...in fact you believe (even though there are gays that have to use this board)

I think SIN is wrong. Regardless of what it may be (homosexuallity, swearing..). I sin everyday. Does this make me a bad person? Does this make a homosexual bad? NO! I love all people and do not hate a specific group. I NEVER said I hated or disliked homosexuals.

Did you choose to be straight?...

Do I choose to sin? Do I chose to have sex with women not being married? Believe me, I have done this many times and I am a sinner.

Did you CHOOSE to be attracted to women..or could it just happen...something you cannot controll...

Just like sin. We chose to do it or not.

..you have found yourself attracted to certain types of women...I dunno help me out...legs do it for you?? chest?? butt?? Blondes?? what??

That pretty much covers it yes.

is it something you just happen to like but cannot explain as to WHY you feel like that??

I am straight...I didnt wake up one day and say...HEY I'LL START BEING ATTRACTED TO GUYS YEAH ....it doesnt work like that LOL

So I guess these people think like you too....only have the ball to take it further...and it goes a lil something like.........

At any rate, we learn that Westboro Baptist Church's position is clear, but difficult to summarize :

In summary, sodomites are wicked and sinners before the Lord exceedingly (Gen. 13:13), are violent and doom nations (Gen. 19:1-25; Jgs. 19), are abominable to God (Lev. 18:22), are worthy of death for their vile, depraved, unnatural sex practices (Lev. 20:13; Rom. 1:32), are called dogs because they are filthy, impudent and libidinous (Deut. 23:17,18; Mat. 7:6; Phil. 3:2), produce by their very presence in society a kind of mass intoxication from their wine made from grapes of gall from the vine of Sodom and the fields of Gomorrah which poisons society's mores with the poison of dragons and the cruel venom of asps (Deut. 32:32,33)...

Hmmmmmm a tad hateful IMO...thank God I dont act and think along those lines....but

I don't think what these people are doing is right. Why? Because they don't know their bibles and they read a few lines and yes, even these believers are taking it out of context and trying to do something that is morally wrong. They think that just because God made a few orders to a group and time that it means its alright with what they do.

question is...What is the TRUE meaning of.......LOVE THY NEIGHBOR? So if that neighbor happens to be gay..sod him..cuz he is going to hell

I love my neighbor. I cannot account for those that do not! Don't burden me with their actions because I have enough already.

LMAO ....gee Amalgamut..nearly every time you post stuff up..you ALWAYS give me a GOOD reminder as to why I am glad I dont follow a religion or a bible...

This is ok if you dont follow the bible. Your choice. However I think the majority of people here aren't understanding me.

What else does God hate...when christians of ANY kind look deep into their bible and then make ALL sorts of claims ..but it stems from the bible to begin with...so what else does God hate ..according to these people and other like them...

God doesn't hate.

I could post more if you like..the list does in fact go on and on...so they have taken their bible...and from that..they created HATE chants...they even have kids that dont understand religion..to do the same....religion is not meant for this..but try stopping it..cuz it all stemms from religion...HATE and lots of it

"Hate," stems from uneducated, misinformed people like this two.

Amalgamut...man thats just SICK...true that said you where stupid to believe in such a sick twisted thing....I say you are more than just that to believe in it..

So now you think I'm stupid too?. God forbid I say I thought you were stupid for some of the things you believe in. You are being no better than a person who dislikes gays! (the people above)

in fact ANYONE that thinks that its OK to KILL someone for being GAY...thats SICK.

You must have trouble reading? I never said I thought it was ok today to kill GAYS today. Show me were I said this and PLEASE stop making false claims. You are completely misunderstanding me. I did say I agreed with God's decision back then to do what he said. To me, in the bible its all or nothing. You can't pick and chose. So excuse me.

KILLING IS WRONG MEANING...KILLING SOMEONE FOR THEIR WAYS OF EXPRESSING LOVE FOR ANOTHER HUMAN BEING IS SO TWISTED AND WRONG

THOU SHALL NOT KILL ????? meaning what? take your pick!

BLIMEY!!

"Thou shalt not MURDER".

"Kill," isn't the correct word.

[zandore]

I'm repeating myself here.... God didn't create "all people" so to speak. He created three people. Adam Eve and Christ.

Ecclesiastes 1:9

The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

[zandore]

God doesn't hate.

We better put the meter on this one

Thats what I thought.

Malachi 1:3

And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

In case you did not know....the Bible is full of Gods hatred.

I do like the dragon part.

[lonelyalpacafarmer]

Amalgamut, logic contradicts your religion, science contradicts your religion, your own religion contradicts your religion.

Your religion will one day fade into mythology, it's inevitable, and that day will be a bright day for humanity.

In case you're interested in trying to convert heathens, or think you can hold a debate in defense of the bible, check out:

http://www.atheistnetwork.com/viewforum.php?f=11

See how long you last.

[truethat]

My main reason for bringing that up is because "truthat" said that the bible is completely false. She thinks its all wrong. I asked her if she thought beastiality was wrong (which we see the bible thinks it is too) and she agreed. So therefore some of the bible must be right, no?

The bible mentions that murder is wrong. Thou shalt not kill but then the bible goes on to say that people can kill. The bible is full of contradictions.

There was another point I was getting to but it's not comparing beastiality to homosexuality and if anyone here thinks I think they are the same in anyway you are wrong.

You are back pedalling and its really obvious.

God doesn't hate.

Deuteronomy 12:31 (Whole Chapter)

" [Deut 9:5] You shall not behave thus toward the LORD your God, for every abominable act which the LORD hates they have done for their gods; for [Lev 18:21; Deut 18:10; Ps 106:37; Jer 32:35] they even burn their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods.

Malachi 2:16 (Whole Chapter)

"For I hate [Deut 24:1; Matt 5:31; 19:6-8] divorce," says the LORD, the God of Israel, "and him who covers his garment with [Ps 73:6; Is 59:6] wrong," says the LORD of hosts. "So take heed to your spirit, that you do not deal treacherously."

God hates divorce. Be careful.

You must have trouble reading? I never said I thought it was ok today to kill GAYS today. Show me were I said this and PLEASE stop making false claims. You are completely misunderstanding me. I did say I agreed with God's decision back then to do what he said. To me, in the bible its all or nothing. You can't pick and chose. So excuse me.

"Thou shalt not MURDER".

"Kill," isn't the correct word.

You are clearly bent in the head to still not understand why people are outraged at what you are saying. You are saying that you agree with Gods decision back then to kill gays for being gay. It doesn't matter if it is "back then" or today. To say execution of a man for being gay is in any way understandable is evil and sick.

And you can't pick and choose. That's my point with the bible. The bible said slavery was ok and that you could kill your slave, women and children were allowed to be raped. Murder of people with different beliefs. Blood sacrifice and blood rituals.

Yes I don't pick and choose and when I look at the Bible as a whole and accept ALL of it, then it comes across as an EVIL book written by and EVIL God.

Edited August 25, 2006 by truethat

[zandore]

http://www.atheistnetwork.com/viewforum.php?f=11

I like!

Reminds me of exchristian.net

See how long you last.

If his track record here is any indication....not long

[Watzel]

You mean these, Z?

God also created everything (Gen 1, Prov 26:10, Col 1:16, Eph 3:9, Rev 4:11, etc.). Including evil (Isa 45:7, Amos 3:6, Lam 3:38).

The Bible says that God is omnipotent; he can do anything (Gen 17:1, 18:14, Ex 6:3, Job 42:2, Luke 1:37, Mark 10:27, Rev 19:6). Man's fate is in God's hands (1 Sam 2:6-7).

God is omniscient (Ps 139:1-6, Prov 15:3, 5:21, Isa 44:7, Matt 12:25, and many others).

God is also good, just and righteous (Deut 32:4, Dan 9:14, and many others).

*Isaiah 45:7 (KJV): I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and CREATE EVIL: I Yahweh do all these things.

*Lamentations 3:38: Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not EVIL and good?

*Jeremiam 26:3: If so be they will hearken, and turn every man from his evil way, that I may repent me of the EVIL, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings.

*Jeremiah 36:3 It may be that the house of Judah will hear all the EVIL which I intend to do to them, so that every one may turn from his evil way, and that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin.

*Jeremiah 32:42 For thus says Yahweh: Just as I have brought all this great EVIL upon this people, so I will bring upon them all the good that I promise them.

*Amos 3:6 Does EVIL befall a city, unless Yahweh has done it?

*Jeremiah 11:11 Therefore, thus says Yahweh, Behold, I am bringing EVIL upon them which they cannot escape; though they cry to me, I will not listen to them.

*Jeremiah 14:16 And the people to whom they are prophesying, Are cast into out-places of Jerusalem, Because of the famine, and of the sword, And they have none burying them, Them, their wives, and their sons, and their daughters, And I have poured out upon them this EVIL. (YLT)

*Jeremiah 18:11 Now, therefore, say to the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem: 'Thus says Yahweh, Behold, I am shaping EVIL against you and devising a plan against you. Return, every one from his evil way, and amend your ways and your doings.

*Jeremiah 19:3 You shall say, 'Hear the word of Yahweh, O kings of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem. Thus says Yahweh of hosts, the Elohim of Israel, Behold, I am bringing such EVIL upon this place that the ears of every one who hears of it will tingle.

*Jeremiah 19:15 Thus says Yahweh of hosts, the Elohim of Israel, Behold, I am bringing upon this city and upon all its towns all the EVIL that I have pronounced against it, because they have stiffened their neck, refusing to hear my words.

*Jeremiah 23:12 Therefore their way shall be to them like slippery paths in the darkness, into which they shall be driven and fall; for I will bring EVIL upon them in the year of their punishment, says Yahweh.

*Jeremiah 26:13 Now therefore amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of Yahweh your Elohim, and Yahweh will repent of the EVIL which he has pronounced against you.

*Jeremiah 35:17 Therefore, thus says Yahweh, the Elohim of hosts, the Elohim of Israel: Behold, I am bringing on Judah and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem all the EVIL that I have pronounced against them; because I have spoken to them and they have not listened, I have called to them and they have not answered.

*Jeremiah 36:31 And I will punish him and his offspring and his servants for their iniquity; I will bring upon them, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and upon the men of Judah, all the EVIL that I have pronounced against them, but they would not hear.

*Jeremiah 40:2 The captain of the guard took Jeremiah and said to him, "Yahweh your Elohim pronounced this EVIL against this place;

*Jeremiah 42:10 If you will remain in this land, then I will build you up and not pull you down; I will plant you, and not pluck you up; for I repent of the EVIL which I did to you.

*Jeremiah 42:17 All the men who set their faces to go to Egypt to live there shall die by the sword, by famine, and by pestilence; they shall have no remnant or survivor from the EVIL which I will bring upon them.

*Jeremiah 44:2 Thus says Yahweh of hosts, the Elohim of Israel: You have seen all the EVIL that I brought upon Jerusalem and upon all the cities of Judah. Behold, this day they are a desolation, and no one dwells in them,

*Jeremiah 45:5 And do you seek great things for yourself? Seek them not; for, behold, I am bringing EVIL upon all flesh, says Yahweh; but I will give you your life as a prize of war in all places to which you may go.

*Jeremiah 49:37 I will terrify Elam before their enemies, and before those who seek their life; I will bring EVIL upon them, my fierce anger, says Yahweh. I will send the sword after them, until I have consumed them;

*Jeremiah 51:64 and say, 'Thus shall Babylon sink, to rise no more, because of the EVIL that I am bringing upon her.'" Thus far are the words of Jeremiah.

*Ezekiel 6:10 And they shall know that I am Yahweh; I have not said in vain that I would do this EVIL to them.

*Micah 2:3 Therefore thus says Yahweh: Behold, against this family I am devising EVIL, from which you cannot remove your necks; and you shall not walk haughtily, for it will be an evil time.

*1 Kings 21:29 Have you seen how Ahab has humbled himself before me? Because he has humbled himself before me, I will not bring the EVIL in his days; but in his son's days I will bring the EVIL upon his house.

*2 Chronicles 34:24 Thus says Yahweh, Behold, I will bring EVIL upon this place and upon its inhabitants, all the curses that are written in the book which was read before the king of Judah.

*2 Chronicles 34:28 Behold, I will gather you to your fathers, and you shall be gathered to your grave in peace, and your eyes shall not see all the EVIL which I will bring upon this place and its inhabitants.'" And they brought back word to the king.

*1 Samuel 16:23 And whenever the EVIL spirit from [the] Elohim was upon Saul, David took the lyre and played it with his hand; so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the EVIL spirit departed from him.

*1 Samuel 18:10 And on the morrow an EVIL spirit from [the] Elohim rushed upon Saul, and he raved within his house, while David was playing the lyre, as he did day by day. Saul had his spear in his hand;

*1 Samuel 19:9 Then an EVIL spirit from Yahweh came upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his spear in his hand; and David was playing the lyre.

*1 Samuel 16:15 And Saul's servants said to him, "Behold now, an EVIL spirit from [the] Elohim is tormenting you.

*1 Samuel 16:14 Now the Spirit of Yahweh departed from Saul, and an EVIL spirit from Yahweh tormented him.

*Micah 1:12 For the inhabitants of Maroth wait anxiously for good, because EVIL has come down from Yahweh to the gate of Jerusalem.

*2 Samuel 12:11-12 Thus says Yahweh, 'Behold, I will raise up EVIL against you out of your own house; and I will take your wives before your eyes, and give them to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of this sun. For you did it secretly; but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun.'

*Judges 9:23 And [the] Elohim sent an EVIL spirit between Abim'elech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abim'elech;

*1 Kings 14:10 therefore behold, I will bring EVIL upon the house of Jerobo'am, and will cut off from Jerobo'am every male, both bond and free in Israel, and will utterly consume the house of Jerobo'am, as a man burns up dung until it is all gone.

*2 Kings 21:12 therefore thus says Yahweh, the Elohim of Israel, Behold, I am bringing upon Jerusalem and Judah such EVIL that the ears of every one who hears of it will tingle.

*Isaiah 31:2 And He also [is] wise, and bringeth in EVIL, And His words He hath not turned aside, And He hath risen against a house of evil doers, And against the help of workers of iniquity. (YLT)

God most certainly does evil.

Kindly,

Sean

But if humans made up all that is in the Bible, then our creator would not be to blame for all the evil in the world. We would.