Debunking the Disclosure Project

September 15, 2006

If you are going to diss someone at least spell his name correctly. Dr. Wernher von Braun was not a war criminal and did not supervise slave labor. Please get your facts straight.

More brainwashed propaganda on UM!! haha. Read and weep my friends.

The Nazi Rocketeers: Dreams of Space and Crimes of War by Dennis Piszkiewicz

In the late 1920s, Hermann Oberth, an early theoretician of space travel, told the world of his plan for using liquid-fueled rockets as vehicles for space travel. To his surprise and delight, he found himself with a group of young German disciples, prominent among them Wernher von Braun, who wanted to turn this dream into reality. During the years of the Third Reich, with von Braun as their technical leader, these men developed the first modern rockets and were in attendance at the birth of the Space Age. Although von Braun rocket and his fellow rocket scientists dreamed of exploring space, they readily embraced the goal of creating weapons of terror rocket and mass destruction. The myth they encouraged after the war described them as brilliant visionaries whose genius was exploited by the Nazi regime. Now, fifty years later, The Nazi Rocketeers tells the true story of how these men enthusiastically participated in the Nazi cause and crimes.

The Nazi Rocketeers describes how Hermann Oberth, Wernher von Braun, and their colleagues progressed, from the innocent dream of space travel, through the development of the V-2 ballistic missile, to the transfer of their technological legacy to the Americans. Other notable Nazi Rocketeers are Army General Walter Dornberger, career soldier rocket mp3 and von Braun's mentor; Albert Speer, technocrat and advocate of the rocket as a weapon; and SS General Hans Kammler, architect of Auschwitz and director of the V-2 rocket war. This book tells how Wernher von Braun and several of his fellow rocket scientists were early and active members of the Nazi movement; von Braun was both a member of the Nazi party and a major in the SS. For their service to the Nazi cause, they were honored by the Third Reich rocket mp3 and by Hitler himself. Most damning is the revelation that they actively collaborated with the SS in the exploitation of concentration camp slave labor to build the V-2 missile.

AND MORE DAMNING INDICTMENT -- THE FACTS!!

The expert on Wernher Von Braun is Michael J. Neufeld at the Smithsonian Insitute. His research is what I was referring to in 2000 when my published staff op-ed column was censored by the U of MN Daily, in response to an email I received from the director of my graduate program, Art Harkin, whose personal mentor was Von Braun:

"I will personally make sure you are never published in the MN Daily again."

That's not much of an intellectual debate -- it's a threat!! Nevertheless this same man signed my masters thesis. haha.

Here's a list of Neufeld's publications based on his Von Braun research:

Neufeld MJ

V-2: A combat history of the first ballistic missile.

JOURNAL OF MILITARY HISTORY 70 (2): 548-549 APR 2006

Neufeld MJ

"Space superiority": Wernher von Braun's campaign for a nuclear-armed space station, 1946-1956

SPACE POLICY 22 (1): 52-62 FEB 2006

Neufeld MJ

The end of the Army Space Program: Interservice rivalry and the transfer of the von Braun Group to NASA, 1958-1959

JOURNAL OF MILITARY HISTORY 69 (3): 737-757 JUL 2005

Neufeld MJ

The secret of Apollo: Systems management in American and European space programs.

JOURNAL OF MILITARY HISTORY 68 (1): 304-305 JAN 2004

Neufeld MJ

Wernher von Braun and concentration camp labor - A reply

GERMAN STUDIES REVIEW 26 (1): 124-126 FEB 2003

Neufeld MJ

Stalin's V-2 - Technology transfer and German remote control systems in the USSR and the development of the Soviet missile industry 1945-1959

TECHNOLOGY AND CULTURE 43 (4): 820-822 OCT 2002

Neufeld MJ

Wernher von Braun, the SS, and concentration camp labor: Questions of moral, political, and criminal responsibility

GERMAN STUDIES REVIEW 25 (1): 57-78 FEB 2002

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From "Wernher von Braun, the SS, and Concentration Camp Labor" by Michael J. Neufeld, National Air and Space Musuem, Smithsonian Institution, Feb. 2002

"Many critics and many survivors of the Mittelbau-Dora concentration camp, on the other hand, see him [von Braun] as an unprincipled opportunist or even a convinced Nazi who was directly responsbile for the deaths of 20,000 prisoners..... The watershed event was the Justice Department announcement in 1984 -- seven years after von Braun died of cancer -- that one of his closest associates, Arthur Rudolph, had left the United States because of his involvement in slave labor in the Mittelwerk underground plant..... It is his [von Braun] involvement in concentration-camp labor that is central to any judgement of him, and the documents I and others have uncovered show him to be responsible, in some sense, for 'crimes against humanity.'"

Baron Von Braun's family were far right aristocrats. His dad would have joined Hitler's cabinet if asked, according to his memoirs.

Von Braun joined the Nazi SS equastrian unit ten months into the Third Reich, Nov. 1933.

There is "no evidence von Braun was bothered by the regime's brutal suppression of opposition or its growing persecution of the Jews."

In 1937 von Braun jointed the Party, according to the NSDAP central file card, although von Braun claimed to have joined in 1939.

In 1940 Reichsfuehrer SS Himmler urges von Braun to join the SS.

In 1942 von Braun "requested permission to marry from the SS Race and Settlement Office in April 1943, he had to send the letter through Reichsfuhrer-SS; to curry favor he added the greeting "Fuhrer!" in his own hand."

In 1943 "the rocket's program's leaders also spent a long night at the officer's club listening to the Nazi empire's chief policeman explaining the need for brutal policies against the occupied countries. Von Braun never commented on this evening in his later autobiographical articles."

"Yet as he admitted in his most honest accounts of the arrest, his jailing was actually Himmler's revenge for his refusal to play along in a conspiracy to have the SS supplant the army as the dominant power in the V-2 program."

Von Braun's arrest by the Gestapo was not due to any anti-Nazi views.

V-2 slave labor was moved underground after a Royal Air Force raid in 1943. 20 prisoners died a day on average due to overwork and bad conditions.

Von Braun was the one to recommend the move underground:

"The move underground directly implicated Wernher von Braun in concentration-camp labor for the first time. Immediately after the air raid, on 25 August 1943, he chaired a meeting at Peenemunde to discuss moving the SS prisoners housed in the production plant to an underground site in western Germany."

"We must conclude that, before von Braun's arrest by the Gestapo, he had already become thoroughly acquainted with the employment of concentration-camp labor at a minimum of six locations in the V-2 program, had witnessed at least some of the catastrophic conditions of working and sleeping in the tunnels at Dora, and had been drawn into the administration of slave labor in the program."

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See also The rocket and the reich : Peenemünde and the coming of the ballistic missile era by Michael J. Neufeld. New York : Free Press, c1995.

September 15, 2006

oy.

This is all bunk because technology is point blank destroying the Earth.

1. That's a personal opinion. I can say technology is point blank helping the Earth.

2. So what if it was, how does that debunk anything?

The constitution has been null and void all along -- it's always been a joke!

Once again, personal opinion. Some others believe it has some credence.

There is no evidence for aliens.

And thats generally the reason why the disclosure project exists... They say they're there to get the evidence to the public...

This is CIA propaganda to displace responsibility of earth-destroying technology --

You just wanted evidence for aliens, so now I want evidence of this claim...

Dr. Helen Caldicott is the perfect antidote to Dr. Steven R. Greer. Caldicott's book "Missile Envy" documents that up till the 1980s there have been dozens of accidents with nuclear missles. For example 5 of the 6 safety triggers went off for a crashed nuclear missile in S. Carolina. If the last safety trigger had been released half of the state would have been destroyed

Oh please, stop exaggerating. Half the state would not have been destroyed.

and it would have launched a global apocalypse.

I doubt it.

There are still missile accidents that are classified.

If they're classified, how do you know about them?

We can not just ban space weapons because technological progress has ALWAYS been based on military developments. So again Greer is promoting a CIA scheme -- that if we don't attack E.T.s then E.T.s will help us use free energy

What? How does that help the CIA scheme?

(this is a complete myth to hide the fact that technology is destroying earth and that engineers have no control over the technology.

Proof please.

The new discipline of quantum chaos has proven this -- just as professor Steve Strogatz who did his research at Los Alamos -- the computers are in control!!).

Proof please. I really doubt you understand quantum chaos.

Greer's final message in the opening remarks is "mature adults have space cooperation with aliens." -- Again this is just to displace our responsibility for the current fact that modern technology is destroying Earth.

Proof please. I see humans "hurting" the Earth... but modern technology helps produce cleaner vehicles, cleaner products that are environmentally friendly so that when, undoubtedly, humans use them, they dont hurt the Earth...

The Witnesses -- practically all old white guys that retired in the 1980s -- many of them from known sources of disinformation. Read Nick Redfern to see the details and documents on how the CIA and Wright Patterson have been kicking out disinformation and that's where many of these witnesses come from!!

Unfortunately none of that can be conclusively proven.

John Callahan FAA -- The FAA has a known history of cover-ups regarding crashed airplanes to take out political opponents. Just read Sherman Skolnick or Anthony Lappe's recent book "True Lies." The FAA works with the CIA to murder people!!

Why would that be? It probably has something to do with keeping a ring hidden from public. Read J.R.R. Tolkien's book "The Lord of the Ring" and you'll understand why the CIA would want to keep it under wraps!

:rolleyes:

...

Edited September 15, 2006 by Stellar

September 15, 2006

Charles Brown -- WWII Airforce OSI, office next to Air Technical Center at Wright Patterson. He used Bluebook sources (again well-documented DISINFO!!)

A person saying "Omg, this is disinfo because I think that in some odd twisted, perverted way it might fall into some grand CIA scheme of things" does not prove it is disinfo...

Michael Smith -- Airforce Sargent till 1973 -- notified NORAD about UFOs on radar and NORAD notified him about "UFOs" -- so what?

Funny... I've been asking myself the same question throughout this post...

Enrique Corbick -- Mexico City Air Traffic Controller 1992 15 objects, 1994 several near collisions and 5 hours on radar -- 15 meter diameter UFO seen by many -- pilot-radar confirmation. "Doesn't know why Mexico has so many sightings?" -- well probably because it's close to the U.S. where all this technology is designed!!

Undoubtedly that could have something to do with some sightings... although it'd be pretty risky to be testing this super secret technology in a foreign country...

So what?

Dan Willis US Navy, top secret Level 14 in San Francisco Code Room, 1969 came out of ocean, elliptical, 70 feet in diameter, 7,000 MPH. Ship radar substantiated. NORAD tells him "visit from our little friends" -- so a joking aside comment is confirmation of what??

I dont think its meant as a confirmation of anything... his point is more about the technology of what he claims he saw, rather than the comment.

Don Phillips CIA -Airforce Design Engineer Deep Black SR71 Blackbird -- predecessor is CIA -- one pilot, one passenger craft on missions to chase UFOs to and from Earth. Las Vegas Airforce Station -- Nullis Airforce Base -- Radar site, Mt. charleston, 1965-6. 8000 Ft elevation. UFO tracked at 3800 MPH by commander staff. Craft stops and reverses and leaves trails at high speeds -- OVER Groom lake, area 51 where his employer Skunkworks tests crafts. Anthony Skazar, scopes radar at 10,000 feet confirms UFO sightings and states the UFOs had no clearance (again secret technology at Area 51 -- big deal).

Secret technology? Again, the guy's point is rather that the craft maneuvered in such a superior way, and he's using that to imply that, whether the craft was or wasnt piloted by humans, it displayed some characteristics that put in doubt whether we'd be able to create such an object at this time or not.

Captain Robert Salas -- Airforce base, Montana 1971 Minuteman Missiles sees red glow, oval hovering outside gate and losses 6 to 8 missiles -- confirmed by retired colonel. Echo-flight also lost 10 weapons with a UFO -- confirmed by Captain Eric Carlson and Lt. Colonal Walt Feigel with FOIA documents from Airforce stating UFOs. (again top secret aircraft -- big deal). SAC Headquarters telexes the same information.

Proof please. How do you know they were top secret aircraft?

Electromagnetic Pulse Weapons can easily dismantle missiles.

Nuclear Missiles are generally shielded from EMPs, and EMP weapons generally arent in the form of a glowing red oval that can hover.

Dwaynne Arnessons, US Airforce Above Top Secret clearance at Wright Patterson (again confirmed DISINFO source).

Confirmed? How?

1960s, Germany, crashed UFO. 1967, Montana -- deactivated Nukes by UFOs. This Arnesson commanded divisions in Vietnam (I'm getting warm, fuzzy feelings all over!! -- how many people did he massacre!!)

?

John Maynard -- Sargent Army Top Secret -- retired from DIA, 1980. Signed 2000 documents, many with UFO references. Was in charge of SALT II verifications. Wants the Black-ops, secret goverment exposed -- Don't We All!! Again top secret technology.

Funny, you're just like these UFO nuts... just instead of claiming every possible blur or speck, or shiney object is an alien craft, you scream out "top secret technology!"

You want proof from them? I want proof from you too!

Karl Wolf, Airforce Langley VA, 1965 consults for NASA Lunar Orbiter Project. Told there is a "base on the back side of the moon with structures, towers, and mushroom shapes" -- had breeched security. Well was he a victim of DISINFO or is he speading DISINFO -- who knows?

Exactly, who knows? Therefore, you have not debunked anything yet.

Wow... and the rest of your post goes on just like that

September 15, 2006

A person saying "Omg, this is disinfo because I think that in some odd twisted, perverted way it might fall into some grand CIA scheme of things" does not prove it is disinfo...

Funny... I've been asking myself the same question throughout this post...

Undoubtedly that could have something to do with some sightings... although it'd be pretty risky to be testing this super secret technology in a foreign country...

So what?

I dont think its meant as a confirmation of anything... his point is more about the technology of what he claims he saw, rather than the comment.

Secret technology? Again, the guy's point is rather that the craft maneuvered in such a superior way, and he's using that to imply that, whether the craft was or wasnt piloted by humans, it displayed some characteristics that put in doubt whether we'd be able to create such an object at this time or not.

Proof please. How do you know they were top secret aircraft?

Nuclear Missiles are generally shielded from EMPs, and EMP weapons generally arent in the form of a glowing red oval that can hover.

Confirmed? How?

?

Funny, you're just like these UFO nuts... just instead of claiming every possible blur or speck, or shiney object is an alien craft, you scream out "top secret technology!"

You want proof from them? I want proof from you too!

Exactly, who knows? Therefore, you have not debunked anything yet.

Wow... and the rest of your post goes on just like that

Have you watched the video? How can you infer what they are implying from my little tid bits of joy?!

Have you read the latest books on UFO CIA disinformation and top-secret technology?!

I take it no from your comments.

UFO Mysteries by Curt Sutherly

Body Snatchers in the Desert by Nick Redfern

On the Trail of the Saucer Spies by Nick Redfern

http://tricksterbook.com

September 15, 2006

A person saying "Omg, this is disinfo because I think that in some odd twisted, perverted way it might fall into some grand CIA scheme of things" does not prove it is disinfo...

Funny... I've been asking myself the same question throughout this post...

Undoubtedly that could have something to do with some sightings... although it'd be pretty risky to be testing this super secret technology in a foreign country...

So what?

I dont think its meant as a confirmation of anything... his point is more about the technology of what he claims he saw, rather than the comment.

Secret technology? Again, the guy's point is rather that the craft maneuvered in such a superior way, and he's using that to imply that, whether the craft was or wasnt piloted by humans, it displayed some characteristics that put in doubt whether we'd be able to create such an object at this time or not.

Proof please. How do you know they were top secret aircraft?

Nuclear Missiles are generally shielded from EMPs, and EMP weapons generally arent in the form of a glowing red oval that can hover.

Confirmed? How?

?

Funny, you're just like these UFO nuts... just instead of claiming every possible blur or speck, or shiney object is an alien craft, you scream out "top secret technology!"

You want proof from them? I want proof from you too!

Exactly, who knows? Therefore, you have not debunked anything yet.

Wow... and the rest of your post goes on just like that

PROOF PLEASE! What a joke -- the very first proof of Western science was based on imperial technology: The Pythagorean Theorem was for catapults yet the academic journal Philosophy, spring, 1999 has two professors arguing that the Pythagorean Theorem is not a valid logical proof!

haha eversince Archytas designed catapults using the the Pythagorean Theorem western science has inherently been eurocentric imperialism.

We have 25 years left of freshwater on the planet -- according to many top research institutes and published studies.

We are replacing the Amazon (the brain of the planet, source of 25% of freshwater and oxygen) with SOYBEANS!! 25% of the Amazon has already been destroyed and some scientists state it's too late to reverse the destruction because of positive feedback.

We have 10 years to solve the global warming crisis -- as if we are even close to doing so.

Ever heard of the Petkau Effect?

People like you -- in total denial about ecological collapse -- are the very reason WHY there is an environmental crisis!!

Read "The Religion of Technology" by Professor David F. Noble (1996) published while he was at M.I.T.

Or read my evidence online:

http://drewhempel.gnn.tv

http://nonduality.com/hempel.htm

Remember what J. Hynek wrote:

"Violation of logic is not proof."

The ecological crisis stems from violation of logic!!

So proof is based on self-affirming experimental controls which already are inherently destructive of the environment!!

Screw proof. It's too late for that.

Read "the Wealth of Nature" by professor Robert Nadeau.

Quantum chaos is the future of supercomputing environmental management.

Yet, as Professor Steve Strogatz has confirmed (see my blog), the logic of quantum chaos can not be proven.

Computers have taken over logic and computers have taken over proof.

Computers do not care about the environment -- but neither does civilization!

In fact humans were never in control!

Nature is in control! Proof by contradiction through deduction of controlled experiments is the modus operandi of science yet such a technique is inherently environmentally destructive!!

What a total joke!

I've had 3 websites censored at this University library:

1) On project HAARP --

2) On underground military cities

3) the conspiracy theory research list led by Kris Millegan, recently subject of a lawsuit by Special Forces. Millegan won the lawsuit but Special Forces was trying to run up his costs for publishing an expose on the lies of the military.

Edited September 15, 2006 by drew hempel

September 15, 2006

Ah yes, the Disclosure project.

Theres the simple factor that extraordinary claims require, and in fact demand, extraordinary evidence. Whats being offered by Greer doesnt even bear a passing resemblance to such.

I really want to believe - I really do. But what concerns me most about these fringe discoveries is that they often come accompanied with an agenda - that is, you have to buy the DVD or come to the conference, oh yes, its not for free. Are these people spreading valid information - or selling snake oil?

Dr. Greer, who is obviously dedicated to this project, made some statements at the beginning of this briefing. He said that the conference would disclose the truth about the subject of UFOs. He stated that the witnesses there "can and will prove that we are not alone".

His drive is to get the whole matter of alien life and alien technology exposed, because, in large part these alien technologies ("connected to extraterrestrials") ...

"...will solve the looming energy crisis...sure to sweep the planet in the coming decade;...will end global warming," etc.

The only problem with this is that no one presented anything evidentiary to indicate that extraterrestrial life exists, or that weve obtained technologies from them. There were merely testimonials about someones experience with UFO sightings, and of course a couple of completely unsubstantiated claims about actually cataloging "57 different "humanoid" species of alien life", as well as some discussion about alien technologies that have been supposedly obtained.

Nothing about that Disclosure conference proved anything at all. No evidence was provided, only peoples testimony. Unfortunately, Dr. Greers assertion fell far short of any standard of scientific proof.

These people all largely had secret or top secret clearances at one time, which is not a big deal (even Bill Kaysing, "father" of the ludicrous moon hoax notion, claimed a top secret clearance when he worked at Rockcetdyne in the late 50s and early 60s...and of course, Mr. Kaysing knows nothing at all of that which he speaks). And they revealed nothing at all top secret in their testimonies. One might get the impression that they were, but they didnt. Anyone can say, "We examined, and classified 57 different alien species," but without anything to back that up, theres simply someone saying something. It's valueless.

I have never said that the possibility of extraterrestrial visitation is not a valid idea.

I did not dismiss DP without a second thought. I simply find it inconsequential based upon actually listening to what these people have said, and realizing all too well the sensationalistic claims of providing proof of extraterrestrial life have never materialized.

I have seen several things myself that I am pretty sure that people with less knowledge of the sky would have considered a UFO (One was the ISS, one a satelite, one was a distant helicopter with a search light and the other was Venus, apparently moving, due to fast moving clouds.)

I think that all the known UFO cases so far have been cases of misidentification or hoaxes (some perpretrated by the observers and some on the observers.) As of yet I havent seen any evidence that would totally convince me of an Alien presence on Earth in any shape or form.

To label something unidentified an alien space craft is a huge leap of unscientific nonsense.

Edited September 15, 2006 by hazzard

September 15, 2006

A person saying "Omg, this is disinfo because I think that in some odd twisted, perverted way it might fall into some grand CIA scheme of things" does not prove it is disinfo...

Funny... I've been asking myself the same question throughout this post...

Undoubtedly that could have something to do with some sightings... although it'd be pretty risky to be testing this super secret technology in a foreign country...

So what?

I dont think its meant as a confirmation of anything... his point is more about the technology of what he claims he saw, rather than the comment.

Secret technology? Again, the guy's point is rather that the craft maneuvered in such a superior way, and he's using that to imply that, whether the craft was or wasnt piloted by humans, it displayed some characteristics that put in doubt whether we'd be able to create such an object at this time or not.

Proof please. How do you know they were top secret aircraft?

Nuclear Missiles are generally shielded from EMPs, and EMP weapons generally arent in the form of a glowing red oval that can hover.

Confirmed? How?

?

Funny, you're just like these UFO nuts... just instead of claiming every possible blur or speck, or shiney object is an alien craft, you scream out "top secret technology!"

You want proof from them? I want proof from you too!

Exactly, who knows? Therefore, you have not debunked anything yet.

Wow... and the rest of your post goes on just like that

From http://templarlodge.com -- Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince give a lecture on their book "The Stargate Conspiracy" proving a CIA scheme to promote Alien Invasion DISINFO:

The Face of Mars and Extraterrestrial Invasion

There appears to be a genuine mystery about Mars. Perhaps there really are pyramids or other artificial structures there. However, attempts to link Cydonia with ancient Egypt simply don't work and have been contrived. But for what purpose?

Perhaps a clue lies in the fact that Richard Hoagland was working at SRI International when he first became interested in the Martian enigmas in 1982. He formed a research group to study them further, which was funded by SRI. The co-founder of this group was Dr Lambert Dolphin, who a few years earlier had led the SRI teams at Giza.

In case you think that we are overly paranoid about SRI's intimate involvement with the Pentagon and CIA, it is as well to take on board the initial reaction of one social scientist who attended Hoagland's first lecture on the Face on Mars. What he said was:

'At first I thought it was some kind of joke, or maybe a complex social experiment being conducted by the CIA - to study psychological reactions to such a hypothetical discovery. I mean - SRI involvement, 'Faces' on Mars... what would you think?... Was this an elaborate psychological experiment sponsored by the defense community?'

In fact, Hoagland's work has always received active encouragement by members of the intelligence community, and most of the key members of his research groups have connections with either intelligence agencies or the Pentagon.

All of this is really, in a sense, just setting the scene for the 'stargate conspiracy', at the heart of which are revelations about a very interesting group of people.

Nearly fifty years ago, this American group believed that they had established contact with powerful extraterrestrial beings. Not physical contact, but psychic or telepathic communication. Over a period of many years these entities made many revelations about themselves - including that they had been the gods worshipped in ancient Egypt.

Let's make this clear. We are not talking about a little New Age channelling group. From the very beginning - half a century ago - it reached the very top levels of American society, even involving a former Vice President. Since then its influence has grown, and it now has followers across the world, including in Britain. And it still whispers in the ear of the Presidency.

So what do these entities, or intelligences, claim?

They claim that they come from Sirius. They built the 'monuments' of Mars (although, significantly, these claims only appeared after the first NASA images of Cydonia.) They created the human race, and taught it the arts of civilisation, and have guided us from behind the scenes throughout history.

And they are now about to return to preside over a great 'cleansing'.

They claim to have been responsible for the destruction of Atlantis, after which survivors founded the Egyptian civilisation and built the Great Pyramid - around the year 10500 BC. They claim that the Sphinx was built in honour of them - and that there are hidden chambers that can be accessed from beneath it.

Some of those who claim to be in contact with these extraterrestrials also claim to have been in contact with Edgar Cayce's spirit guide, and that Cayce's pronouncements came from essentially the same source.

In its fifty-year history, the 'contact group' in touch with these entities have had some very interesting dealings. During the early 1970s, it was intimately involved with SRI International - interestingly, at the same time that SRI first became interested in Giza. In fact, one of the leaders of this group worked alongside Lambert Dolphin's team.

Key members of this group have been behind the promotion of the Face on Mars - and its connection with Egypt - from the very beginning. In fact, Richard Hoagland's so-called Message of Cydonia comes directly from these 'space-gods'.

Throughout its long history, many eminent names have been connected with this group - names from the fields of politics, high finance, entertainment, and even science.

Among those present at the 'first contact' with these alleged extraterrestrials in 1952 was the philosopher and inventor Arthur M. Young - who was later to become the mentor of Robert Temple, and who directly inspired him to write The Sirius Mystery.

Put like this it all sounds very exciting. Has contact with the gods of ancient Egypt been re-established? Are they, as they promise, about to return?

Of course, many would consider their claims to have been backed up by independent research: the connection between Sirius and ancient Egypt; the importance of the year 10500 BC; the connection between Egypt and Mars. But we have seen that all this 'evidence' is not only flawed but highly contrived.

It must be pointed out that these allegedly all-knowing entities not only make mistakes when dealing with ancient history, but sometimes come out with downright howlers. They even give the ancient Egyptian name for the Sphinx as arq ur - which, as we have seen, comes from a misreading of a particular dictionary.

But the whole story takes on a much darker hue. We have discovered that military and intelligence agencies, mainly the CIA, were involved with this group right from the beginning. In fact, the research institute where the entities first made their appearance was actually a front for Pentagon psychological warfare and parapsychological experiments.

The person who formed and led the 'contact group', and who first established contact with the entities, was - at the very same time - working for both the Pentagon and the CIA on various techniques of psychological manipulation. This included the use of hallucinogenic drugs, hypnosis and electromagnetic influence. He was working specifically on ways to induce apparent mental contact with non-human entities - and, much more disturbingly, this was part of the CIA's MKULTRA mind control project.

We have seen the involvement of the CIA in much of this story. But how far does it go?

Did they create this scenario from the beginning, as part of a long-term programme of psychological and sociological manipulation?

Or could it really be that some non-human entities - but not necessarily who they claim to be - are either running the show or are partners in its stage management?

Either way, it should scare the hell out of us...

Release date 1st July 1999, 320pp, ISBN 0 316 64861 2

September 15, 2006

oy.

1. That's a personal opinion. I can say technology is point blank helping the Earth.

2. So what if it was, how does that debunk anything?

Once again, personal opinion. Some others believe it has some credence.

And thats generally the reason why the disclosure project exists... They say they're there to get the evidence to the public...

You just wanted evidence for aliens, so now I want evidence of this claim...

Oh please, stop exaggerating. Half the state would not have been destroyed.

I doubt it.

If they're classified, how do you know about them?

What? How does that help the CIA scheme?

Proof please.

Proof please. I really doubt you understand quantum chaos.

Proof please. I see humans "hurting" the Earth... but modern technology helps produce cleaner vehicles, cleaner products that are environmentally friendly so that when, undoubtedly, humans use them, they dont hurt the Earth...

Unfortunately none of that can be conclusively proven.

Why would that be? It probably has something to do with keeping a ring hidden from public. Read J.R.R. Tolkien's book "The Lord of the Ring" and you'll understand why the CIA would want to keep it under wraps!

...

You tell me to stop exaggerating: "Oh please, stop exaggerating. Half the state would not have been destroyed.

I doubt it."

Obviously you don't doubt enough or you would have looked it up. Doubt for you is an excuse to stop thinking!! What a "skeptic" you are! haha. Totally bogus.

Here's the quote from the book "Missile Envy" by Dr. Helen Caldicott (william morrow and co., NY, 1984)

"Accidents with nuclear weapons are probably much more frequent than even the unclassified data reveals. Obviously, as the number of nuclear weapons increases, the probablility of an accident increases.... According to a Department of Defense unclassified dcoument, there were thirty-two accidents involving nuclear weapons between 1950 and 1980.... On January 24, 1961, a B-52 on airborne alert developed structural failure of the right wing over Goldsboro, North Carolina. Two weapons separated from the aircraft during the breakup of the plane at an altitude of 2,000 to 10,000 feet. The bombs were both 24-megaton bombs, which is equivalent to 24 million tons of TNT. The total energy of TNT released during World War II was 3 million tons. One bomb crashed, and five of its six safety catches were triggered. Had that bomb exploded, it would have destroyed much of North Carolina." (pp. 44-5)

It was North not South Carolina and it was "much" not "half" -- well is much more than half or not? haha.

September 15, 2006

Have you watched the video? How can you infer what they are implying from my little tid bits of joy?!

Yes, I actually HAVE watched the video.

Have you read the latest books on UFO CIA disinformation and top-secret technology?!

The latest? probably not, depending on how often they come out. Care to post the proof?

PROOF PLEASE! What a joke

Gee... its a joke to ask for proof? Wow. What kind of world are you living in?

We have 25 years left of freshwater on the planet -- according to many top research institutes and published studies.

What's your point? Gee... you know, if it werent for technology, this would be much more alarming than it is.

We are replacing the Amazon (the brain of the planet, source of 25% of freshwater and oxygen) with SOYBEANS!! 25% of the Amazon has already been destroyed and some scientists state it's too late to reverse the destruction because of positive feedback.

What's your point? This has to do with...?

We have 10 years to solve the global warming crisis -- as if we are even close to doing so.

10 years to solve the global warming crisis? Where'd you get that from? And what's your point?

Ever heard of the Petkau Effect?

Yes I have. He's the one that found that 7 rads over 11 1/2 hours could rupture a cell membrane. What's your point?

People like you -- in total denial about ecological collapse -- are the very reason WHY there is an environmental crisis!!

I'm not in total denial about the ecological damage there is. Its people like you, who are convinced that the Earth is about to cave in on itsself within a couple of years, yet blame everything on technology and are unwilling to support the very thing that could help the environment out are the reason why there is an environmental crisis.

The ecological crisis stems from violation of logic!!

1. How so?

2. What does that have to do with debunking the Disclosure Project?

So proof is based on self-affirming experimental controls which already are inherently destructive of the environment!!

Oh, is that the excuse you're using for not being able to prove your points?

Computers have taken over logic and computers have taken over proof.

Computers do not care about the environment -- but neither does civilization!

What are you talking about? Computers are tools guided by humans, they have not taken over anything yet.

Nature is in control! Proof by contradiction through deduction of controlled experiments in the modus operandi of science yet such a technique is inherently environmentally destructive!!

How is it environmentally destructive, hmm? Oh wait... you cant prove that because it would hurt the environment. What a joke. :rolleyes:

I've had 3 websites censored at this University library:

1) On project HAARP --

2) On underground military cities

3) the conspiracy theory research list led by Kris Millegan, recently subject of a lawsuit by Special Forces. Millegan won the lawsuit but Special Forces was trying to run up his costs for publishing an expose on the lies of the military.

So what?

September 15, 2006

name='hazzard' date='Sep 15 2006, 04:44 PM' post='1351289']
Ah yes, the Disclosure project.

Theres the simple factor that extraordinary claims require, and in fact demand, extraordinary evidence. Whats being offered by Greer doesnt even bear a passing resemblance to such.

I really want to believe - I really do. But what concerns me most about these fringe discoveries is that they often come accompanied with an agenda - that is, you have to buy the DVD or come to the conference, oh yes, its not for free. Are these people spreading valid information - or selling snake oil?

That's peculiar considering scientific investigations have already verified many of the case files covered by the Disclosure Project.

Nothing about that Disclosure conference proved anything at all. No evidence was provided, only peoples testimony. Unfortunately, Dr. Greers assertion fell far short of any standard of scientific proof.

Goes to show how wrong you were. Have you done any homework on the cases covered by the Disclosure Project? I think not, otherwise you would have found that some of those cases are also documented on the Department of Defense's own website.

To label something unidentified an alien space craft is a huge leap of unscientific nonsense.

Unless you can explain those UFOs over Washington D.C. in 1952 as those of mankind, your claim has no merit, none whatsoever and it is as simple as that.

To label something unidentified an alien space craft is a huge leap of unscientific nonsense.

I wouldn't say that considering scientific means have been used to validate many UFO case files.

Edited September 15, 2006 by skyeagle409

September 15, 2006

That's peculiar considering scientific investigations have already verified many of the case files covered by the Disclosure Project. The "snake oil" you are speaking of was the Condon Report you posted a reference of.

What scientific evidence? I have seen no scientific data at all to support ET visitation. The scientific community as a whole does not accept this premise either. Despite what many beleivers think.

Goes to show how wrong you were. Have you done any homework on the cases covered by the Disclosure Project? I think not, otherwise you would have found that some of those cases are also documented on the Department of Defense's own website.

Aren't you supposed to not trust government info or only when it suits your agenda? So they have it on their website it prooves nothing except that it's on their website.

Unless you can explain those UFOs over Washington D.C. in 1952 as those of mankind, your claim has no merit, none whatsoever and it is as simple as that.

There is nothing explaining what was seen was ET so your claims have no merrit as simple as that. Fact is aside from knowing that unknown aircraft or possibly space craft do fly around and no we don't know what they are or who's they are. There is nothing solid enough to back up ET visitation and nothig concrete enough to suggest military involvement. However I still lean towards the militaries involvement in such things.

September 15, 2006

:tu:

"Beginning in 1993, I started an effort that was designed to identify firsthand military and government witnesses to UFO events and projects, as well as other evidence to be used in a public disclosure. From 1993, we spent considerable time and resources briefing the Clinton Administration, including CIA Director James Woolsey, senior military officials at the Pentagon, and select members of Congress, among others. In April of 1997, more than a dozen such government and military witnesses were assembled in Washington DC for briefings with Congressmen, Pentagon officials and others. There, we specifically requested open Congressional Hearings on the subject. None were forthcoming.

In 1998, we set out to "privatize" the disclosure process by raising the funds to videotape, edit, and organize over 100 military and government witnesses to UFO events and projects. We had estimated that between $2 million and $4 million would be needed to do this on a worldwide basis. By August of 2000 only about 5% of this amount had been raised but we decided to proceed since further delay was deemed imprudent given the serious issues involved here. So beginning in August we began creating the Witness Archive Project and we set about the task of traveling all over the world to interview these witnesses in broadcast quality digital video format. Due to the severe limitation of funds, this effort was predominantly prepared by myself and a few other volunteers roughly from August 2000 through December 2000.

Beginning in late December 2000, I began editing over 120 hours of raw digital video testimony at home. I should note that I am a medical doctor and not an editor. Nevertheless, from late December 2000 until late February 2001 the 120 hours were reduced first to 33 hours of select testimony and then 18 hours of super-select testimony. The 33 hours of select testimony were dubbed to audiotape and transcribed resulting in approximately 1200 pages of testimony transcripts. In March and early April, 2001 I edited these transcripts into a readable form, which appear herein.

I must emphasize that this has been done under the most severe time and funding constraints, working 7 days a week and mostly 18 hours a day. And I thought the Emergency Department was tough!

I share this only so the reader will understand that these transcripts and other materials are very likely to contain errors. These include likely errors in proper names arising from the phonetic spelling of such names directly from transcribed audio tapes of testimony. I apologize in advance for these.

Dr. Greer's Books

Disclosure : Military and Government...

Contact Steven M. Greer, M.D. at info@disclosureproject.org .

Media: Contact Steven M. Greer, M.D. at media@disclosureproject.org.

Visit Dr. Greer's website http://www.disclosureproject.org.

[End]

September 15, 2006

I share this only so the reader will understand that these transcripts and other materials are very likely to contain errors. These include likely errors in proper names arising from the phonetic spelling of such names directly from transcribed audio tapes of testimony. I apologize in advance for these.

Dr. Greer's Books

Disclosure : Military and Government...

Contact Steven M. Greer, M.D. at info@disclosureproject.org .

Media: Contact Steven M. Greer, M.D. at media@disclosureproject.org.

Visit Dr. Greer's website http://www.disclosureproject.org.

Ah yes, the Disclosure project.

Theres the simple factor that extraordinary claims require, and in fact demand, extraordinary evidence. Whats being offered by Greer doesnt even bear a passing resemblance to such.

I really want to believe - I really do. But what concerns me most about these fringe discoveries is that they often come accompanied with an agenda - that is, you have to buy the DVD or come to the conference, oh yes, its not for free. Are these people spreading valid information - or selling snake oil?

Dr. Greer, who is obviously dedicated to this project, made some statements at the beginning of this briefing. He said that the conference would disclose the truth about the subject of UFOs. He stated that the witnesses there "can and will prove that we are not alone".

His drive is to get the whole matter of alien life and alien technology exposed, because, in large part these alien technologies ("connected to extraterrestrials") ...

"...will solve the looming energy crisis...sure to sweep the planet in the coming decade;...will end global warming," etc.