lacotta Posted September 22, 2006 #151 Share Posted September 22, 2006 (edited) What you have is not scientifically proven evidence. Until we have true scientific proof. Then ET is just speculation. I agree with you to some extent! We had the whole bunch of evidences but the theory of ET visitation has been considered too speculative by mainstrem science in the past. Now, some scientists of the scientific community are beginning to accept those theories. Will see in the coming decade.... Another fact is that: Most of the people believe in god? how could they? NO proof has been presented yet. Is more evidence to support the ET visitation theory then God theory! IMO Check this out: Physical Evidence Related to UFO Reports Consideration: The report has been written by mainstream scientific community in 1997! Another rather interesting report: Newfrontiersinscience Edited September 22, 2006 by lacotta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Skeptic Eric Raven Posted September 22, 2006 #152 Share Posted September 22, 2006 I agree with you to some extent! We had the whole bunch of evidences but the theory of ET visitation has been considered too speculative by mainstrem science in the past. Now, some of the scientific community has begun to except those theories. Will see in the coming decade.... Another fact is that: Most of the people believe in god? how could they? NO proof has been presented yet. Is more evidence to support the ET visitation theory then God theory! IMO Check this out: Physical Evidence Related to UFO Reports Consideration: The report has been written by mainstream scientific community in 1997! Another rather interesting report: Newfrontiersinscience I don't believe in god , really. But I know what you are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
contactismade Posted September 22, 2006 #153 Share Posted September 22, 2006 so raven would you say then that programs like SETI are the way to go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Skeptic Eric Raven Posted September 22, 2006 #154 Share Posted September 22, 2006 so raven would you say then that programs like SETI are the way to go? I think they should be subsidized privately. It is like finding a needle in a hay stack. By the way, I live for the day when ET's are proven real beyond a shadow of a doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacotta Posted September 22, 2006 #155 Share Posted September 22, 2006 (edited) IMO, some scientists, somewhere know exactly what we are talking about today! But the information is considered to sensitive to be released! Like i said, will see! Im just willing to know the truth of all this. Im not considering UFO nuts(cults, conspirators and the like), just looking in the direction of real evidence and reliable witnesses. let's just say, im allowing the possibility of ETvisits as well. Maybe they have found a signal in 1999 but the official explanation has been debunked. SETI scientists themselves believed that was real ET signal, but caused a lot of controversy. NASA's explanation of the signal What have NASA to do with indipendent SETI project? it's everybody's guess! Edited September 22, 2006 by lacotta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Skeptic Eric Raven Posted September 22, 2006 #156 Share Posted September 22, 2006 IMO, some scientists, somewhere know exactly what we are talking about today! But the information is considered to sensitive to be released! Like i said, will see! Im just willing to know the truth of all this. Im not considering UFO nuts(cults, conspirators and the like), just looking in the direction of real evidence and reliable witnesses. let's say im allowing the possibility of ETvisits as well. I can agree on the possibility, just not the probability. I do remain hopeful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacotta Posted September 22, 2006 #157 Share Posted September 22, 2006 (edited) I can agree on the possibility, just not the probability. I do remain hopeful. Good! I do respect your opinion! Read this article; an explanation: what is going to happen, when UFOs arrive It can't happen this way! Edited September 22, 2006 by lacotta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
contactismade Posted September 22, 2006 #158 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Raven do you think programs like that, hard science, is the only way to go to avoid naysayers. Does psuedo science ruin any chance of the topic being taking seriuosly, or is it more a function of the kind of people that surround this topic? For a topic this fantastic shouldn't there be some suspension of disbelief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drew hempel Posted September 22, 2006 Author #159 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Don't normally agree with you on anything.lol But, I saw a documentry on Nazi spacecraft technology. Specifically about those engines and saucer shape craft. It makes some sense. Right and if anyone on this website DARES to read Nick Redfern's last two books then the evidence is incontrovertible. 1) Evidence proving CIA disinformation promoting alien invasion as a cover 2) Evidence that Disclosure Project relies on sources ALREADY proven to be CIA disinformation 3) Evidence that the Nazis developed spacecraft which matches the sightings claimed to be alien. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapid7 Posted September 22, 2006 #160 Share Posted September 22, 2006 (edited) Right and if anyone on this website DARES to read Nick Redfern's last two books then the evidence is incontrovertible. I've done some pretty daring things in my life and reading one of Nick Redfern's books ain't one of them. You really need to improve your critical thinking skills and stop worshipping at the alter of saint Redfern. Edited September 22, 2006 by rapid7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Skeptic Eric Raven Posted September 22, 2006 #161 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Raven do you think programs like that, hard science, is the only way to go to avoid naysayers. Does psuedo science ruin any chance of the topic being taking seriuosly, or is it more a function of the kind of people that surround this topic? For a topic this fantastic shouldn't there be some suspension of disbelief? For the topic to be taken seriously like it should be, we must use science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacotta Posted September 22, 2006 #162 Share Posted September 22, 2006 (edited) Someone is talking about rational opinion? Did you know?: 1. The President Clinton was denied access to UFO documents by Bush sr. Someone got scared, that he was going to release UFO related documents? President Carter was denied access as well(same story)! Allexperts article:executive order 12958 2. Chef of the Defence stuff of the United Kingdom and his persistent attempts to disclose classified informations that were illegaly kept from the public. Wikipedia article:5-star general:Lord Hill Norton 3.And former Canadian Minister of Denfence? He joined the Disclosure Project in 2005! Wikipedia article:Paul Hellyer Scientist J. Allan Hynek! he was the primary scientific advisor to three consecutive studies undertaken by the AirForce. The Key person, who was advised to debunk UFOs until the end of Project Blue Book. Pressure? he was told "not to excite the public!" You can still find the documentary in which they are discussing the best ways to deal with the general public on UFO issue. The documentary was release many years later. Why scientists and intelligence stuff believed in UFOs? Because was nothing to it? I don't buy it! Wikipedia article:J.Allan Hynek 4.Astronaut Gordon Cooper (and many other astronuts). Wikipedia article: Gordon Cooper Then Mexican Primeminister, Former CIA director (which was killed for UFO related documents), Australian, French,...Those are not dudes from the backyard!!! Is healthy to be sceptical, but is not the same as irrational! There are many reasons to look in to the subject of UFOs. Im confident about that! Edited September 22, 2006 by lacotta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drew hempel Posted September 22, 2006 Author #163 Share Posted September 22, 2006 (edited) I've done some pretty daring things in my life and reading one of Nick Redfern's books ain't one of them. You really need to improve your critical thinking skills and stop worshipping at the alter of saint Redfern. I read ONE BOOK A DAY -- so clearly I don't worship Nick Redfern and also clearly if anyone can judge high quality work then I can -- again because I read so much! Today's read is http://waynemadesenreport.com -- "Jaded Tasks" Edited September 22, 2006 by drew hempel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drew hempel Posted September 22, 2006 Author #164 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Someone is talking about rational opinion? Did you know?: 1. The President Clinton was denied access . Someone got scared, that he was going to release UFO related documents? President Carter was denied as well(same story)! Allexperts article:executive order 12958 2.What about Chef of the Defence stuff of the United Kingdom and his persistent attempts to disclose classified informations that are illegaly kept from the public. Wikipedia article:5-star general:Lord Hill Norton 3.And former Canadian Minister of Denfence? He joined the Disclosure Project in 2005! Wikipedia article:Paul Hellyer Astrophysic Allan Hynek? he was the primary scientific advisor to three consecutive studies undertaken by the AirForce. The Key person, who was advised to debunk UFOs until the end of Project Blue Book. Pressure? he was told "not to excite the public!" You can still find the documentary in which they are discussing the best ways to deal with the general public on UFO issue. The documentary was release many years later. Why scientists and intelligence stuff believed in UFOs? Because was nothing to it? I don't buy it! Wikipedia article:J.Allan Hynek 4.Astronaut Gordon Cooper (and many other astronuts). Wikipedia article: Gordon Cooper Then Mexican Primeminister, Former CIA director (which was killed for UFO related documents), Australian, French,...Those are not dudes from the backyard!!! Is healthy to be sceptical, but is not the same as irrational! There are many reasons to look in to the subject of UFOs. Im confident about that! Yesterday I was reading "the Puzzle Palace" by James Bamford -- the best-seller book on the National Security Agency. The NSA is the Most-Secret Organization in the U.S. Bamford details how top secret reports WOULD LIE in order to cover-up the fact that, for example U.S. jets had entered into enemy territory -- and been shot down. President's rely on "plausible deniability" -- in fact being the President is just considered a "volunteer" position. There are 13,000 corporations that have REVOLVING DOOR contracts with the NSA -- meaning NSA employees join the corporation at high management levels in order to help the corporation get contracts from the NSA, etc. This is ALL SECRET!! Then there's FEMA -- the underground government!! So just because some presidents were and are kept in the dark is no big deal. THERE'S A SECRET EXECUTIVE CABINET UNDER FEMA DESIGNED TO TAKE OVER IF THE ABOVE GROUND GOVERNMENT IS DESTROYED. So who's in charge? Again I had a very close encounter with a top secret military craft -- a big black, flat equilateral triangle. I could have hit it with a rock -- it was slow, making a humming noise, right over the tree on the end of our yard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacotta Posted September 22, 2006 #165 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Right and if anyone on this website DARES to read Nick Redfern's last two books then the evidence is incontrovertible. 1) Evidence proving CIA disinformation promoting alien invasion as a cover 2) Evidence that Disclosure Project relies on sources ALREADY proven to be CIA disinformation 3) Evidence that the Nazis developed spacecraft which matches the sightings claimed to be alien. Good point! Take a look at the documentary below! Here's what you just said! UFO's: The Secret Evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drew hempel Posted September 22, 2006 Author #166 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Good point! Take a look at the documentary below! Here's what you just said! UFO's: The Secret Evidence http://www.gizadeathstar.com/ Try that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacotta Posted September 22, 2006 #167 Share Posted September 22, 2006 (edited) Yesterday I was reading "the Puzzle Palace" by James Bamford -- the best-seller book on the National Security Agency. The NSA is the Most-Secret Organization in the U.S. Bamford details how top secret reports WOULD LIE in order to cover-up the fact that, for example U.S. jets had entered into enemy territory -- and been shot down. President's rely on "plausible deniability" -- in fact being the President is just considered a "volunteer" position. There are 13,000 corporations that have REVOLVING DOOR contracts with the NSA -- meaning NSA employees join the corporation at high management levels in order to help the corporation get contracts from the NSA, etc. This is ALL SECRET!! Then there's FEMA -- the underground government!! So just because some presidents were and are kept in the dark is no big deal. THERE'S A SECRET EXECUTIVE CABINET UNDER FEMA DESIGNED TO TAKE OVER IF THE ABOVE GROUND GOVERNMENT IS DESTROYED. So who's in charge? Again I had a very close encounter with a top secret military craft -- a big black, flat equilateral triangle. I could have hit it with a rock -- it was slow, making a humming noise, right over the tree on the end of our yard. Interesting! Didn't know what these users knew about NSA corporated special access projects (compartmentialized) but infact this is the case of the most UFO sightings. Well known example is the Belgium UFO wave of sightings. Just recently the informations have leaked out. IMO, black triangles are definetly SDI vehicles. SDI stands for Strategic Defense Initiative or codenamed "StarWars" defence.(you know that) I've read some of it. I saw a disk last year during the day above neighbour's house. It was without any window or stuff like that. Didn't make any noise, just stood there. It looked like a huge oval sphere. In meantime called my mother and she got excited. Then i ran for the camera to take a photo but it disappeared soon after. I was so furious...Like you've said, i could throw a rock at it, so close it was. I've never heard any reports about it and i didn't report it either. Military vehicle? Could well be! If i could take a picture that day, it would be the best picture avaiable on UFOs for sure. But the military won't let me do that, to publish those pictures. Ops, the clock is ticking....got to work! Edited September 22, 2006 by lacotta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted September 23, 2006 #168 Share Posted September 23, 2006 (edited) name='drew hempel' date='Sep 22 2006, 08:25 PM' post='1361149'] 1) Evidence proving CIA disinformation promoting alien invasion as a cover Note in this reference, the military does not explain away its secret aircraft as UFOs. When Secrets Crash http://www.afa.org/magazine/july2001/0701secrets.asp And, I posted this from another thread. Note that the U-2 is not explained away as a UFO but as a high altitude weather aircraft. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- <^> Then, the government claimed that the U-2 was allowed to be explained away as an UFO to cover-up its secret aircraft yet the U-2 was explained away as nothing more than a typical high altitude weather aircraft. * 7 May 1956 - NACA Director Dr. Hugh L. Dryden issues a press release stating that U-2 aircraft are conducting weather research for NACA with Air Force support from Watertown, Nevada. * 22 May 1956 - A second press release is issued with cover story for U-2 aircraft operating overseas. * 1 May 1960 - Francis Gary Powers is shot down near Sverdlovsk. * 6 May 1960 - U-2 with fictitious NASA serial number and NASA markings is shown to news media to bolster cover story of NASA weather research flights with U-2. * 7 May 1960 - Soviet Premier Kruschev announces capture and confession of Powers. * 1960 - Dr. Hugh L. Dryden tells senate committee that some 200 U-2 flights carrying NASA weather instrumentation have taken place since 1956. * 2 April 1971 - NASA receives two U-2C aircraft for high-altitude research. These were the first U-2s to actually be operated by the NACA or NASA, as opposed to the CIA or U.S. Air Force. http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Photo/U-2/HTML/E-5442.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------- <^> In other words, the CIA distorted its own disinformation campaign by falsely claiming that it continued to let the public think that secret aircraft were UFOs when it fact the government explained secret aircraft publically as nothing more than conventional aircraft, not UFOs. 2) Evidence that Disclosure Project relies on sources ALREADY proven to be CIA disinformation That's false as well! Many of those incidents were were well-documented and in some cases, the public was never made aware of those incidents. That fact alone shows that the CIA had nothing to do with actual UFO encounters of the military. 3) Evidence that the Nazis developed spacecraft which matches the sightings claimed to be alien. German 'flying saucers.' http://www.alienresistance.org/nazischematic.jpg http://www.burlingtonnews.net/nazi_13.jpg Apparently, those Nazi 'flying saucers' were not capable of hypersonic flight nor could they conduct right-angled maneuvers at 40+Gs. Those are main differences between NAZI 'flying saucers' and real UFOs. The following saucer-shape vehicleS were not capable of hypersonic flight nor capable of right-angled maneuvers either. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/mufono...ro/avrocar.html http://www.daveswarbirds.com/usplanes/aircraft/flapjack.htm Edited September 23, 2006 by skyeagle409 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapid7 Posted September 23, 2006 #169 Share Posted September 23, 2006 Good point! Take a look at the documentary below! Here's what you just said! UFO's: The Secret Evidence There's a reason why it matches with Drew’s point- Drew shares Nick Redfern’s view who ripped off Nick Cook’s theory, who was fooled by er (cough) CIA disinformation because he considered UFOs made by NAZIs sounds so much plausible than the ET hypothesis. And that's it.. Read this link, to find out how he reached this conclusion. http://ufologie.net/htm/naziufocook.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapid7 Posted September 23, 2006 #170 Share Posted September 23, 2006 (edited) If the Nazis did achieve this giant leap in super tech, why didn’t they win WWII? Oh, let me guess they just ran out of time.. Edited September 23, 2006 by rapid7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted September 23, 2006 #171 Share Posted September 23, 2006 name='rapid7' date='Sep 23 2006, 12:58 AM' post='1361462'] If the Nazi did achieve this giant leap in super tech, why didn’t they win WWII? Oh, let me guess they just ran out of time.. I couldnt' help but to post this image with a smile because there is more to the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atheist God Posted September 23, 2006 #172 Share Posted September 23, 2006 If the Nazis did achieve this giant leap in super tech, why didn’t they win WWII? Oh, let me guess they just ran out of time.. According to the stories that some of the urban legend surrounding nazi saucer planes they were still in the development phase of the operation. It's not that time ran out persay but rather were losing the war and running low on cash. It was also urban legend until prooven correct that nazi scientists were also working on atomic power and weapons. This was prooven when a team uncovered a nazi ship wreck and found 'heavy water' also known as deuterium. They have also found drawings depicting the layout of an atomic bomb. This up until recently was considered nothing more then myth. There is however one person who admits that the german saucer idea was his a german scientist named Andreas Eep. Now whether or not the idea was his has yet to be prooven. What we do know about him is he was a Nazi scientist recruited under paper clip. Also supposed declassified CIA documents gathered from german scientists do mention disk like aircraft. Whether or not the documents can be verified is another story.... Never the less I never trust eye witness testimony alone. I need the proof to back up some of the amazing claims people have made over the years. Nothing conclusive has ever came out about nazi ufo's and never will. However the site of the infamous bell experiment still exists and it's design is to me is pecular to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
contactismade Posted September 23, 2006 #173 Share Posted September 23, 2006 I think that if the NSA was america's MOST secret orginization we would never have heard of it. Sorry drew the NSA is just a big lightning rod drawing evryone's eye away. There are other more powerful agencies that exist in the background, who do you think gives the NSA the power to do what they do in the first place? Its not the president thats for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drew hempel Posted September 23, 2006 Author #174 Share Posted September 23, 2006 I think that if the NSA was america's MOST secret orginization we would never have heard of it. Sorry drew the NSA is just a big lightning rod drawing evryone's eye away. There are other more powerful agencies that exist in the background, who do you think gives the NSA the power to do what they do in the first place? Its not the president thats for sure. Yeah well the NRO only became public in 1994 or so!! But it's really part of the NSA -- guess you'll have to read James Bamford to get a clue! haha. Just keep reading -- I can't teach you everything for free! haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
contactismade Posted September 23, 2006 #175 Share Posted September 23, 2006 You have nothing to teach me your intellect exists BELOW mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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