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drew hempel

Debunking the Disclosure Project

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badeskov

Hello. :) I don't think I've posted in this Thread before, but I was just wondering, why is it so, apparently, important that the Disclosure Project must be Debunked? It must be important, for this thread to have been going for 25 pages now. Is it just because it's bad Science, and as such must be eliminated before it corrupts the minds of the young? Is it actually doing any harm to anyone? Alright, it may be making money from sales of things, but are there any other very important reasons why it should be eliminated?

Well 747, I guess it depends on the eye of the beholder. Personally, I find it very important to point out bad science as portrayed in the Disclosure Project. In scientific circles this is naturally not an issue as scientists are able to differentiate between science and pseudoscience. However, on a forum like this said project has been popping up numerous time as a validation of ET visitation and if people are not told the fallacies they employ, it is very easy to be deceived by their fantastic claims. I find that this field is cluttered by this kind of bad science rather than the critical thinking that should be employed by us all when we form our opinion about what is happening in the skies.

Cheers,

Badeskov

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booNyzarC

Hello. :) I don't think I've posted in this Thread before, but I was just wondering, why is it so, apparently, important that the Disclosure Project must be Debunked? It must be important, for this thread to have been going for 25 pages now. Is it just because it's bad Science, and as such must be eliminated before it corrupts the minds of the young? Is it actually doing any harm to anyone? Alright, it may be making money from sales of things, but are there any other very important reasons why it should be eliminated?

I suppose that all depends on one's interest in the subject matter. If finding the truth is the goal, then certainly it is of value to clarify reality by sifting out the huff an fluff, don't you think?

That's the way I look at it. Not as a matter of debunking, but as a matter of identifying the truth wherever possible.

In terms of whether or not the DP is doing harm, in my opinion it is and has. It is hiding certain pieces of truth in order to propagate a mythology which is convincing many people to believe in fantasy. As a result, people sometimes do things which are inappropriate or even criminal. Look at what the DP did for poor Gary McKinnon, facing extradition and all simply because the DP inspired him to go the extra mile. Granted, this is an extreme case, but it certainly isn't the only one where people being misled may decide to do things that they would be better off not doing.

The thing that concerns me about it is the almost religious conviction that the DP has generated. For many, it is almost cult-like. And we've certainly seen the disastrous results that UFO cults can sometimes produce, right?

1463_heavens_gate_468.jpg

Most people of stable mind won't have drastic reactions like this, but a small percentage will if they are convinced of the stories in the DP. And even for those, I'm of the opinion that it is better to be aware of the truth than to be deluded by a lie (whether the lie is intentional or not). I'm not saying that all of the DP testimony is wrong, but in my own personal look through many parts of it... I've found that it is often over exaggerated if not downright incorrect.

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skyeagle409

So am I.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...it must be very hard to keep quiet about 'stuff'

that is of extreme importance to the human race.

Some of the disclosure witnesses were very emotional and I can understand why.

It must have been a relief to speak to the public....finally.

I expect more people to come forward as the years roll on as well. Their cases are well documented..

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skyeagle409

I suppose that all depends on one's interest in the subject matter. If finding the truth is the goal, then certainly it is of value to clarify reality by sifting out the huff an fluff, don't you think?

That's the way I look at it. Not as a matter of debunking, but as a matter of identifying the truth wherever possible.

In terms of whether or not the DP is doing harm, in my opinion it is and has. It is hiding certain pieces of truth in order to propagate a mythology which is convincing many people to believe in fantasy. As a result, people sometimes do things which are inappropriate or even criminal. Look at what the DP did for poor Gary McKinnon, facing extradition and all simply because the DP inspired him to go the extra mile. Granted, this is an extreme case, but it certainly isn't the only one where people being misled may decide to do things that they would be better off not doing.

The thing that concerns me about it is the almost religious conviction that the DP has generated. For many, it is almost cult-like. And we've certainly seen the disastrous results that UFO cults can sometimes produce, right?

1463_heavens_gate_468.jpg

Most people of stable mind won't have drastic reactions like this, but a small percentage will if they are convinced of the stories in the DP. And even for those, I'm of the opinion that it is better to be aware of the truth than to be deluded by a lie (whether the lie is intentional or not). I'm not saying that all of the DP testimony is wrong, but in my own personal look through many parts of it... I've found that it is often over exaggerated if not downright incorrect.

Many of the cases involving the DP witnesses, are well documented with facts and evidence.

In regards to the guy above, I see an image of Phil Klass, the same guy who has said that Mars and Jupiter were responsible for an encounter, which was brought up by one of the Disclosure Project witnesses.

Didn't know at the the time that the UFOs were also tracked on radar, but many skeptics believed him anyway.

Edited by skyeagle409

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skyeagle409

I hear you . i guess its pure attitude. the word *debunk* itself implies attitude and confrontation.

They have said that the flares were dropped over the Barry M. Goldwater range, but at 3000 feet and 50-60 miles away, there is no way that any flares from that location would have visible in Phoenix, and anyone who has been to Phoenix would know why.

On another note, how long as the Air Force been dropping flares at the BMGR? Any UFO reports durng those flared drops on the level of the 'Phoenic Lights?' No, and that is a very important clue right there that no flare drop was responsible for the 'Phoenix Lights' sighting.

The Phoenix, Lights

Official Explanation

After denying that they had heard of the incident, the Air Force released their official explanation of the sightings - military flares. They stated that military flares had been released from a USAF A-10 over the Gila Bend Bombing Range (located 60-80 miles southwest of Phoenix, on the other side of the bordering mountain range). They explained that the A-10 had released the flares at about 6,000 feet and that the flares had ignited at around 3,000 feet. They completely burnt out at around 500 feet.

The Air Force stated that the A-10s were on a special training mission.

They left David-Monthan AFB in Tucson at 8:15pm and returned at 10:00pm. They were authorized to use the Goldwater range which is near Gila Bend. After their flare exercise they were returning when they realized they had more flares on board. Base regulations forbid plans from landing with flares so the were jettisoned as the planes approached the base.

Researchers Counter

UFO researchers scratched their heads over the Air Force's explanation. Although highly unlikely, it may have explained the reports of lights over Phoenix, but it still left many unanswered questions. They quickly pointed out that the time the Air Force gave for the flares jettison was 42 minutes after the reported Phoenix sightings. They also noted that the flares explanation did nothing to explain the sights all over the Nevada and Arizona surrounding areas. How could the flares have been seen traveling over such a wide range of areas by so many people who claimed flatly that the object had passed directly over them.

One witness, who lives under the customary A-10 flight path, noted that no A-10s landed or took off around 10:00PM that night. He knew this because he was in the habit of going outside whenever he heard the A-10s (to watch them land). He states that he definitely heard no A-10s landing during the time of the sightings. UFO researchers have filed FOIA requests with the US Air Force, requesting logs of departures and arrivals of A-10s during the night of March 13 - the USAF has yet to comply with their requests.

My link

That explains why there were no operations log for any A-10 flare drops near Phoenix.

Edited by skyeagle409

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The Prophet

What I don't really understand is how people try to explain the CIA disinformation campaigns as evidence against UFOs and the Disclosure Project. If the CIA is going through the trouble to spread disinformation, would it not be for the purpose of discrediting witnesses and evidence of UFOs to make the public see them as nutcases or frauds? Because unfortunately that is exactly how the public views this sort of thing.

And trying to say that the members of the Disclosure Project who were "around" the disinformation could still be working for that purpose is just a lazy attempt to debunk the DP. Nobody is really stating anything besides "well, we saw some UFOs, and our equipment did as well, but the government won't tell you much." What kind of disinformation would that be? Skeptics need to ask other questions besides "How do I make this out to be a ploy to believe in UFOs?"

And anybody who thinks a retired officer of the military isn't credible is off their rocker.

Cheers all!

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james1951

Well 747, I guess it depends on the eye of the beholder. Personally, I find it very important to point out bad science as portrayed in the Disclosure Project. In scientific circles this is naturally not an issue as scientists are able to differentiate between science and pseudoscience. However, on a forum like this said project has been popping up numerous time as a validation of ET visitation and if people are not told the fallacies they employ, it is very easy to be deceived by their fantastic claims. I find that this field is cluttered by this kind of bad science rather than the critical thinking that should be employed by us all when we form our opinion about what is happening in the skies.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Oh come on. These are just a bunch of retired or income challenged military folks who need to supplement their income. The Disclosure project is big business. Books to be written, lectures to be given, movies to be written.

If people choose to believe this exciting stuff is real where is the harm. (War of the Worlds).. oops did I say that out loud. Still... people are free to sell their homes and give all their money away because harold camping convinced them it was the end of the world and they wouldn't need them.

What was he charged with again .....

thats right....NOTHING.

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bee

Oh come on. These are just a bunch of retired or income challenged military folks who need to supplement their income. The Disclosure project is big business. Books to be written, lectures to be given, movies to be written.

Big business !! L O L

Books, lectures and writing movies?

awww bless you for thinking this = big business..... :lol:

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james1951

Big business !! L O L

Books, lectures and writing movies?

awww bless you for thinking this = big business..... :lol:

It could be worse. It could all be a disinformation program, readying the world for a FAKE alien invasion as a prelude to world war three or a new world order military world coupe

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bee

It could be worse. It could all be a disinformation program, readying the world for a FAKE alien invasion as a prelude to world war three or a new world order military world coupe

you're a bit paranoid....... :unsure2:

perhaps you've been listening to too many weird things on the internet?

it's not ALL true you know

best thing is to just try and relax and not worry..... :tu:

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james1951

you're a bit paranoid....... :unsure2:

perhaps you've been listening to too many weird things on the internet?

it's not ALL true you know

best thing is to just try and relax and not worry..... :tu:

I listen to everyone , but I believe no one, not you, not them. Not even myself. Que sera sera. All that matters is that we love truth as revealed to us by the Spirit of Truth and Righteousness and that we love our neighbor as ourself.

Render unto Caesar (world,governments) what is Caesar and unto God (Spirit of Truth and Righteousness) what is Gods.

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bee

yeah....ok

^_^

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DONTEATUS

You know the really sad thing ? The War of the Worlds is us trying to survive us ! And If ever a advanced race of star travelers came with agression in the mind set We will be Toast ! So Keep that butter near by ! They like there Human samwiches greesey ! :wacko:

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james1951

You know the really sad thing ? The War of the Worlds is us trying to survive us ! And If ever a advanced race of star travelers came with agression in the mind set We will be Toast ! So Keep that butter near by ! They like there Human samwiches greesey ! :wacko:

Why do you think they have been watching us for all these years. And their parents keep yelling at them "Stop playing with your food."

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Occams Razor

I must be missing something here, what exactly has the "Disclosure Project" actually disclosed? Is there anything tangible here or is it the usual BS. People spinning a yarn for money, or are bored, or delusional or a combination of all three. Let me guess, documents without provenance, stories with no proof whatsoever, same old same old.

Surprise me please.

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booNyzarC

I must be missing something here, what exactly has the "Disclosure Project" actually disclosed? Is there anything tangible here or is it the usual BS. People spinning a yarn for money, or are bored, or delusional or a combination of all three. Let me guess, documents without provenance, stories with no proof whatsoever, same old same old.

Surprise me please.

Nope, you aren't missing anything. Pretty much nailed it actually.

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DONTEATUS

So does anyone need a few pairs of NIKe`s ? we could start a sleep over party and Star gazing club ? I`ll disclose all the nitty-gritty details !

Youy have to drink the Koolaid too !

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sean2011

i don't truly agree with this debunking. esps when your saying all the witnesses are just old white haired men. have you ever wandered why they are because anyone younger who we'd like to here off like people in the military now are being quiet. these people are decrediting their creditials are more likely doing this so people will think wait a minute he did this that and the other he can't be telling the truth now. all i'm saying is what would these people truly gain from speaking out if they were lying, these old men now are coming of age and will die in the nearer future and want to tell the world what they have seen. remember there's many different types of people who can keep secrets and some that can't.

i find it a little naive that people can debunk all of this stuff, when we all know that governments can cover anything they want up they control the media. we are all fed information, exactly when they want, it happens in america on a daily basis on all subjects on the news.

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MID

Nope, you aren't missing anything. Pretty much nailed it actually.

Yes, Boo, it sure appears he's encapsulated the issue:

20 years of "disclosing", and I think the only thing disclosed was the fact that Dr. Greer needs to remain in medicine...

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Solarsails

Dr. Greer is a fraud.  He is determined to soak up as much money as he can from his gullible victims.  I have the thought that he is also driven to manipulate and control people.  His victims appear to be maudlin, intellectually superficial and highly impressionable (even though some of them appear to have relatively high IQs).  He doesn't allow people who question or disagree with him to remain in his circle. Only those who tow the line and parrot his limp minded, peace, love and spiritual oneness with ET creed are given the opportunity to be in his sect.  I find him to be repulsive and socially awkward; he's obviously working some sort of fraud on his followers and while they are intensely meek they remain single "mindlessly" devoted and unshakeable in their devotion to him and the "philosophy".  Everything about him and his followers smacks of a cult. I find his assertions with regards to UFOs and ETs to be some of the most weak and flimsy I have ever heard. He pedagogically uses warm, fuzzy emotionalism combined with quasi-spiritualistic dogma and consistently rehashed story lines dosed with techo-babble to wow his easily impressed audience.  Its obvious to those of us who are even slightly skeptical that he's milking the phenomenon for financial gain and some kind of morbid narcissistic gratification.  Personally, I find him to be intensely repulsive. So you should understand that I am in no way defending him when I say that your attempt at debunking him is flimsy at best.  Most of what I read (I admit I didn't read all of it) seemed to be more like a personal rendition of everything that you believe to be erroneous but nothing to prove or demonstrate just exactly how or why his assertions are wrong.  I can completely see and quite possibly easily agree that Greer is a complete, bonafide crackpot, space weanie and emotionally wacky weirdo who deals in unfounded escapist thinking and maudlin platitudes.  However, you really should formulate some sort of distinct arguments that you want to debate and then offer some notated counter arguments to back them up (I'd personally enjoy something like that).   What you've offered is essentially a list of everything that you disagree with but you don't even say why you disagree.  And I can tell you that you are wrong in a least one of your main assertions and that would be that humans and our machines and industries are destroying the Earth (sounds like Greer).  Humans aren't destroying this planet and indeed its impossible, with our current technology to accomplish such a feat. Humankind could take all of our nuclear weapons and detonate them in synchronicity with the eruption every volcano on the surface of this planet and we would not be successful in destroying the planet Earth.  Its impossible.  We might destroy all the life on the planet for a hundred million years or so, but the Earth would eventually bounce right back.  I'm not just casually saying this- because even the asteroid that allegedly wiped out the dinosaurs was a little mosquito bite as far as Earth's history is concerned.   I mean, look back to the beginning of this planet, when it was apparently a rotating ball of lava, sulfuric acid rain and mega-lightning strikes for millions of years (not to mention collisions with other bodies in the solar system, including the Moon).  Nope, humans can't destroy the Earth, even if we literally tried.  If the Earth was a rotating ball of liquid rock that absorbed a collision with the Moon and ended up being what it is today, then I don't understand what would motivate you to assert that humans "are destroying the Earth".  With all due respect that's a bunch of human-hating, low-watt, goofballism and wishy washy nonsense.  Come on already, people certainly do suck but get off of it, we aren't as bad as you've led yourself to believe; its not like we despise and vindictively have it out for our planet.  Maybe we aren't being as respectful as we should be, but the planet isn't alive as far as we know and unless you are prescribing to the same sort of nonsense as is Greer then I fail to see what your planet killer philosophy is meant to project.  If the Earth developed into what it is today from a rotating ball of liquid rock then you have to face the fact that even if we developed some sort of machine or system that could liquify this planet, that eventually it would evolve back into the same thing that it is now. Earth literally evolved out of armegeddon and the worst that we could do to this planet would resemble its nursery environment. There's no reason to believe that it wouldn't do the same thing again and there is nothing, short of the Red-Giant phase of our Sun itself, that can permanently damage or demolish this planet.  We have 300 million years to get off of this ball of rock and if we stop burning fossil fuels and using whatever industry we have to accomplish that goal we'll literally be vaporized toast. Red-Giant Sun isn't going to wait around for us to decide if we are going to use fossil fuels or nuclear energy to avoid perdition.  What humanity has been doing to this planet and our environment is tiddly winks compared to the last days the Sun has planned for it.  Perspective...

Edited by Solarsails
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