Pope launches scathing attack on Islam

[supercar]

The radical Muslims are such hypocrites. They want us to be tolerant of everything they want, but they are intolerant of everything about us.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

The radical Muslims are such hypocrites. They want us to be tolerant of everything they want, but they are intolerant of everything about us.

All the Abrahamic religions are like that

[Nadal]

If we're lucky, they'll knock each other out.

Now presenting, "Catholics Versus the Muslims!" Round 1. FIGHT!

...Finish him.

[Cinders]

Odas, bless you!

I wanted to be sure that what I posted earlier was the correct speech, and it is. I also found it in PDF format supplied here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/15_09_06_pope.pdf

After seeing some images here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/5349604.stm and reading comments to this today, I only hope this will come to a peaceful understanding and nothing more becomes of this.

Many comments on the BBC link below make good points, while others you can tell, have not even read the entire speech. In a way, I understand why some are upset about this, but I also understand why one should not be upset by this.

BBC Comments on "Have Your Say"

The way I see it - if we all continue the way we do, one day, we will ALL loose our Freedom of Speech, as well as other freedoms such as Religous Beliefs. That is if we don't NUKE each other to death first.

*peace*

Edited September 16, 2006 by Cinders

[odas]

The way I see it - if we all continue the way we do, one day, we will ALL loose our Freedom of Speech, as well as other freedoms such as Religous Beliefs. That is if we don't NUKE each other to death first.

Very true, Cinders.

Pope Benedict exercised poor nowledge. That's it. Nothing wrong with that and it is not a crime not to be knowledgable in everything.

And again, I truly believe his intentions were not as potrayed.

We, muslims, shoud go over it and try to understand the meaning of opinion.

However, non-muslims should try to understand that for us religion is not something that you take on and of whenever it pleases you.

I am what I am, we are what we are. Sorry for any inconviniance.

Peace to you too.

[__Kratos__]

Pope Benedict exercised poor nowledge. That's it. Nothing wrong with that and it is not a crime not to be knowledgable in everything.

And again, I truly believe his intentions were not as potrayed.

He talked and quoted a historical figure.

You know... I am now a Muslim... If anybody hear remotely disagrees with my views, I'm just going to have to put a fatwa on you and go jihad all over your insensitive selfs... right?

Maybe if Muslims don't like what is being said in the free world, they can simply... Not listen?

[odas]

He talked and quoted a historical figure.

You know... I am now a Muslim... If anybody hear remotely disagrees with my views, I'm just going to have to put a fatwa on you and go jihad all over your insensitive selfs... right?

Maybe if Muslims don't like what is being said in the free world, they can simply... Not listen?

C'mon, Kratos. You are suprising me. Read my previous posts, you musst have missed it.

As it sometimes happens, you quoted me out of contest.

[__Kratos__]

C'mon, Kratos. You are suprising me. Read my previous posts, you musst have missed it.

As it sometimes happens, you quoted me out of contest.

Getting over it for one isn't going to really matter while there are guys in the streets burning things for protest.

[frogfish]

Pope 'meant no offence' to Islam

Muslims in Pakistan staged an anti-Papal protest

The Vatican has denied that Pope Benedict XVI intended any offence to the Muslim religion, after a speech touching on the concept of holy war.

Speaking in Germany, the Pope quoted a 14th Century Christian emperor who said the Prophet Muhammad had brought the world only "evil and inhuman" things.

The remarks have angered clerics and commentators around the Muslim world.

However, the Vatican said the Pope had wanted to make clear that he rejected violence motivated by religion.

The pontiff had not intended to offend Muslims, the Vatican said.

HAVE YOUR SAY

Pope Benedict probably should self-criticise Christianity's violent past before commenting on the other faith

John Lin, Illinois

Send us your comments

Vatican braced for anger

"It certainly wasn't the intention of the Pope to carry out a deep examination of jihad (holy war) and of Muslim thought on it, much less to offend the sensibility of Muslim believers," said chief Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi in a statement.

"It is clear that the Holy Father's intention is to cultivate a position of respect and dialogue towards other religions and cultures, and that clearly includes Islam."

But the statement has failed to quell criticism. In developments around the world:

Pakistan summoned the Vatican's ambassador to express regret over the remarks, as parliament passed a resolution condemning the comments

The head of the Muslim Brotherhood said the remarks "aroused the anger of the whole Islamic world"

Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniya condemned the Pope's comments

In Iraq, the comments were criticised at Friday prayers by followers of radical Shia cleric Moqtada al-Sadr

Salih Kapusuz, deputy leader of Turkey's ruling AK party, likened the pontiff to Hitler and Mussolini

The 57-nation Organisation of the Islamic Conference said it regretted the Pope's remarks

Violence and faith

The controversy comes on an important day for the Vatican, with Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, former Archbishop of Genoa, taking over as secretary of state.

The remarks do not express correct understanding of Islam

Mohammed Mahdi Akef

Muslim Brotherhood

Key excerpts: Pope's speech

In quotes: Muslim reaction

In pictures: Muslim anger

Correspondents say Pope Benedict, who has been closeted with his chief advisers at his summer residence near Rome, is upset at the way in which his remarks have been interpreted.

The Vatican is seriously concerned that the protests might develop into violence directed at the tiny city state, says the BBC's David Willey in Rome.

But preparations for the Pope's forthcoming visit to Turkey, a predominantly Muslim secular nation, in November, are going ahead as planned.

In his speech at Regensburg University, the German-born Pope explored the historical and philosophical differences between Islam and Christianity, and the relationship between violence and faith.

Stressing that they were not his own words, he quoted Emperor Manuel II Paleologos of the Byzantine Empire, the Orthodox Christian empire which had its capital in what is now the Turkish city of Istanbul.

READ THE SPEECH

Read the Pope's speech [37KB]

Most computers will open this document automatically, but you may need Adobe Reader

Download the reader here

The emperor's words were, he said: "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

Benedict said "I quote" twice to stress the words were not his and added that violence was "incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul".

"The intention here is not one of retrenchment or negative criticism, but of broadening our concept of reason and its application," he added in the concluding part of his speech.

"Only thus do we become capable of that genuine dialogue of cultures and religions so urgently needed today

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5349578.stm

-----------------------

[odas]

That's right, frogfish.

Any normal person, if he reads Cinders post and the complete text of what Pope Benedict said, would know he did not mean any offence and that he was just citing an Emperor from the 14th century.

Btw, this Emperor said the remarks about Muhammad, pbuh, during a conversation

with a muslim scholar.

Even in those times, people used to comunicate better and respect each others views better then we do now.

I wonder, are we going forward or backward with our civilisation?

[__Kratos__]

Even in those times, people used to comunicate better and respect each others views better then we do now.

I wonder, are we going forward or backward with our civilisation?

Well back then it was a small group of people that knew of the meeting and even fewer of what was said.

Years later we have a global network of 24/7 media that help spread messages in seconds. So people can get upset within hours now instead of letting weeks, months or even years go by before word gets back to people.

I blame people unaccepting to freedoms.

[Talon]

Is this going to be the Muhammad cartoons all over again, these people should get a backbone and stop rioting at every little thing that doesn't go their way. Islamic countries like Iran insult the west all the time, but you don't see us rioting in the streets over it. For the 'religion of peace' its followers have some of the most violent people in the world amongst their number.

Islam was created 700 years after Christainity, and it looks like they'll need another 700 years to advance to the wests' level of maturity.

Acctualy, Islam as a religion started "only" 300 years, after Christianity. I like your knowledge. Amazing.

However, Islam started with Adam, since he was the first human to submitt to God.

This was just to teas you.

For someone who is insulting my knowledge, you seem to be in complete disagreement with commonmly held fact;

“Secular historians place Islam's beginnings during the late 7th century in Arabia. Under the leadership of Muhammad and his successors “(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam)

As for Adam he was a fictional character, and thus since he never existed, never started anything.

So your sarcasm only hides your own lack of knowledge.

Edited September 16, 2006 by Talon

[explorer]

Just remember this... there are no gods, no redemptions, no resurrections, just humans and their mysterious ways. To the boiling pot with all the cheesy believers and their mere beliefs.

If anyone gives a toss what some religious icon speaks, then more fool them. We must work out the world for ourselves for it is no-one elses world but our own.

Of course the Poop, oops, I mean the Pope, offended Islam. It's his job. 'There can be only one'. Who's side is the Pope on, I wonder and so the flagrant violence of centuries past continues with officious justification today.

If you kiss the monolith of collective belief, be prepared to live with the consequences. Your fate will be taken from your mind and decide by another. So f' em all.

[Col. Kurtz]

Im wondering what the Muslim clerics stand is on molesting young boys. Do they behead the molesters or just ship them off to another church like the Catholics ?

[Moon Monkey]

Nah Pat and the gang, advocate Christian Law, and striking down "Activist Judges" via god's wrath

Now, you see, I dont mind accepting 'Gods' or 'Allahs' wrath as they are fictional characters in fairy stories beleived as fact by crazies whereas 'blokes with bombs strapped to thems' wrath is a lot more tangible.

Btw what percentage of the people currently protesting and burning effigies do you reckon actually read the popes speech in full and in context, I am thinking low.

[odas]

Acctualy, Islam as a religion started "only" 300 years, after Christianity. I like your knowledge. Amazing.

However, Islam started with Adam, since he was the first human to submitt to God.

This was just to teas you.

For someone who is insulting my knowledge, you seem to be in complete disagreement with commonmly held fact;

“Secular historians place Islam's beginnings during the late 7th century in Arabia. Under the leadership of Muhammad and his successors “(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam)

As for Adam he was a fictional character, and thus since he never existed, never started anything.

So your sarcasm only hides your own lack of knowledge.

Ha ha ha. I was not pointing out the date when Islam started to be a religion rather the fact that Christianity started to be an aknowledged religon 300 years after Jesus. Until then it was a small sect which was prosecuted by everybody.

So the difference is about 300 years.

Not only your knowledge is amazing but your sense of understanding too.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Now, you see, I dont mind accepting 'Gods' or 'Allahs' wrath as they are fictional characters in fairy stories beleived as fact by crazies whereas 'blokes with bombs strapped to thems' wrath is a lot more tangible.

Btw what percentage of the people currently protesting and burning effigies do you reckon actually read the popes speech in full and in context, I am thinking low.

One leads to the other my friend, first comes the spouting out the rhetoric, then comes the violence

[Pinky Floyd]

This just proves that you cannot even mention, and absolutely cannot debate on an international forum, about Islam. The religion is awash in paranoia.

[bathory]

so the pope quotes some guy who says islam is violent

muslims scream in righteous indignation and threaten violence in response

the west doesn't have to marginalise muslims when they do it sio well themselves

[Pinky Floyd]

so the pope quotes some guy who says islam is violent

muslims scream in righteous indignation and threaten violence in response

the west doesn't have to marginalise muslims when they do it sio well themselves

Yeah, it almost seems like he knew to prove them violent, all he had to do is simply call them violent (he didn't even do that), and have them prove he's right by-you guessed it-getting violent.

I wonder how many churches will be burned down by this?

5 churches attacked in Palestinian areas

Edited September 16, 2006 by Pinky Floyd

[Baku]

The Pope did apologize for his comments so I really see no problem but dang I hope Muslims arent gonna freak out again like with that cartoon.

Edited September 16, 2006 by Baku

[Pinky Floyd]

I hope Muslims arent gonna freak out again like with that cartoon.

Yeah right. No chance of that happening. Calm as can be those Middle-east muslims. Calm and rational. Especially calm and rational while in large groups. Yeah that's them.

[rapid7]

Yeah right. No chance of that happening. Calm as can be those Middle-east muslims. Calm and rational. Especially calm and rational while in large groups. Yeah that's them.

Ok, whose up for rational debate? one at a time please..

[Moon Monkey]

Ok, whose up for rational debate? one at a time please..

an oldie but a goodie

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5...party&hl=en

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Wasn't this pope a Nazi?