Youths Trained to Fight for Jesus

[IamsSon]

Do you have any proof of this god? Do you have any proof of this bible?

Well, the Bible is a book you can pick up at any bookstore. It has been a top seller for decades. As to my proof of God, yes, I do have proof of him, but it is personal proof. That's the way He works, you believe in Him by faith and then He reveals Himself to you.

So... you're telling me you want to turn America into a religious dictatorship, where one religion is enforced, and those who dont believe it are punished... I think thats called Pre 9/11 Afghanistan...

I never said that! If you are so delusional that you can't read what I wrote without adding all this dribble to it, that is your personal problem. Please do not pretend to put such horrible thoughts in my mind. I served as an officer in the U.S. Army and took my oath to protect the CONSTITUTION of the United States VERY seriously and still do. How dare you!!!!!!!!

I just said that LIBERALS would see it as a threat, just as I see their ridiculous agenda of "drop your weapons and love everyone and they will love you back" as a threat.

I said nothing about enforcing one religion over any one. I believe the First Amendment insures that will not happen, and I fully support the first Amendment, in fact I served in the military to protect this and our other rights. It guarantees freedom of religion--meaning you are free to be part of any religion you want, or none if that is what you want, I just don't believe it guarantees freedom from religion; that is that no one will worhsip at all or that you will be insulated from me worshipping or expressing my religous beliefs, you have the freedom to walk out or not listen.

[ShaunZero]

I can see that being a parenting option, if you do not have the certainty of knowing the truth, but it would be just cruel to withold the truth from your children.

You don't know it's the truth. And if you really do, then God is extremely unfair. Proving himself to some but not others.

That's the way He works, you believe in Him by faith and then He reveals Himself to you.

Damn, it takes longer than 18 years? That's just so nice of him isn't it.

And personal proof is fine and dandy, but we can't verify if you're a truth teller or not. And besides, many people claim to have personal proof of all sorts of things, and alot of the claims contradict eachother. So how do you go about figureing it all out?

Edited September 18, 2006 by Zero of Deism

[Imaginary Friend]

Fascinating! On one hand you boldly claim you served the army and believe in and defend the 1st Amendment. Right after you say this:

I can see how from a liberal standpoint this will appear to have a negative impact on the country's future. However, I think that having a clear, Biblically based moral stand can only be a blessing for our country,

(Sic) What I do see in my son is that sharing his faith and talking about Jesus and salvation is just part of a normal conversation for him, while that is a subject I struggle bringing into conversation. So, yeah, from that standpoint, this upcoming generation is one that should worry those who oppose Christianity because they are going to be more overt about living for Christ.

People reading you should be very aware of the mind set that is alive and well in this country. They claim they uphold the constitution and yet they believe the constitution was drafted in the spirit of the christian faith. So while in one aspect you claim to support freedom of speech and religion, on the other you defer to one religious value system as a moral foundation that would do well for all citizens, to be installed as policy in this country. The country wherein that 1st Amendment you claim to respect and uphold, assures freedom for pagans, atheists, agnostics, muslims, and every non-christian within our borders!

Biblically based moral stand can only be a blessing for our country.

Ok, let's consider that shall we? If you work on a Sunday I may stone you to death. Because the christian morality, founded on god's law, says it is forbidden to work on the Sabbath, under penalty of death. Or, depending on the denomination you hold your allegiance to, perhaps you will die on a Saturday. Pick a Sabbath, any Sabbath and prepare to die right after you punch in.

Lemme see, what else. Oh yes, bible based morality as policy in this America would entail everyone not of the christian faith would be executed!

Deuteronomy 13:13-19

So much for the 1st Amendment you uphold, yet claim bible based morality can only be a blessing for our country! Oh yes, and those of us that don't adhere to the orders of the priests, or clergy of the faith, we'll be put to death to. Deuteronomy 17:12 (King James Version) And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die: and thou shalt put away the evil from Israel.

Let's not forget homosexuals. Forget about gay rights /equality activism. Under your standard of a blessing for America, they're dead! No need for equality when you're a corpse.

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

And before one thinks to defend by saying, oh those are books of the OT and don't apply to that christian morality model of which the U.S. would be blessed to demonstrate as national policy, remember this;

2 Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."

So, when we read someone speaking about their child attending one of these "jesus camps", and: "(sic)So, yeah, from that standpoint, this upcoming generation is one that should worry those who oppose Christianity because they are going to be more overt about living for Christ."

Realize that they are not advocating freedom of all people to live as they choose in the faith that serves their unique individual spirit. They are actually advocating freedom from one perspective. Christian! It's patently obvious in the quote above. We should worry about those "living for christ" are going to be more overt toward those that oppose christianity?! Oppose? As in, are not chrisitian! This is the zealot mentality that afflicts what is labeled in our media as the "American Christian Taliban!"

And pay attention! Because as we watch the old news clips of the Afghan Taliban swathed in black, running gauntlets, carrying guns, realize that what you are watching are video's taken from their training camps dedicated to extremist muslim zealotry!!!

Now amend the quote a bit and get the perspective, of what some would advocate on these boards and for this countries citizens and in the name of christ! By recognizing the spirit in that advocacy, as it is applied right now and in the context afforded by another sect of right wing religious zealots:

So yeah, from that standpoint, this upcoming generation is one that should worry those who oppose Islam because they are going to be more overt about living for Allah!

Are they now!?

I am here to tell you, if the christian Taliban becomes as overt as you promise Iams, it is best they give their souls to their god, because they'll be meeting him by the thousands at the hand of those of us that despise zealots and vow this country shall not become a mirror of the MidE. under the shadow of christian demons bearing a cross! I promise you that.

We've already witnessed the psychosis of far right terrorists that blow up abortion clinics in the name of a pro-life platform! We witness far right extremist psychopaths that praise jesus as they squeeze the trigger and execute doctors. We watch as they protest stem cell research, from a pro-life agenda that would seek to damn all life to diseases that may be cured or halted in the pathology, if the salvation of that cellular research were allowed to continue and receive adequate funding. Because the zealots claim "it's a life". No, it's stem cells. And when the term of viability expires, guess what? It becomes medical waste. It's garbage! Discarded in a red plastic medically signed and sealed garbage bag! But you see the pro-life movement is about affecting a dictatorship in the name of god. It's not about quality of life, else it wouldn't oppose research on that which otherwise is discarded as human tissue trash, by authority of the FDA!

Pay attention to the attitudes that are boldly standing up and joining forces in the name of a certain ideal of christ, people. Don't imagine we have the 1st Amendment to protect us, because right now in the halls of power in this country we have people that are boldly speaking christian taliban values, and they have the authority at the same time to not only pass bills, but sign them into law. And don't forget there is one faction that has it's advocate that seeks to Amend the Constitution already, by declaring marriage to be a federally recognized institution for heterosexuals only!

Think about that! Amending a document of freedom to affect federal policy that sponsors bigotry and thereby violates the equal protection clause of that same Constitution! Equal protection....except for....

So if there can be a movement to Amend the institution of marriage to federal oversight, don't think for a moment the zealot christian personalty can not seek to Amend to install one faith because: "Biblically based moral stand can only be a blessing for our country."

Pay attention to those that would boldly declare their zealotry in sponsoring one faith as morally superior and for all people! Because fighting terrorists and terrorism begins at home! Save America from those that would save us from our freedom in the name of their zealot ideal of christ!

[Beckys_Mom]

If my experience is anything like the norm I highly recommend it.

All of you parents out there...by all means go for it. Your children will learn more than you ever expected.

My child is ok with church for now..I do't think I want to drum religion into her by sending her to a camp too LOL

I wanjt her to learn about God...but not OTT...just a lil...

Yes, Sympa, I do have children. I have two children. Both of them have accepted Christ as their Savior. In fact, my son, actually led his sister to Christ.

Sheri has 3 boys......her oldest is 22....her youngest is one of the SMARTEST lil guys I have ever read about and chatted with...it's unbelieveable how bright he is..........

Sheri teaches him all......................no jesus involved...no...just Sheri and her partner....

Not only is this kid smart...but has a lot of common sense too...again without Jesus (not meant as an insult or anything please understand)

I have known Sheri for a long time..and I have learnt a lot..and believe it or not taken tips too...along the way... She is a non believer...but it didn't stop her from being a loving - caring and a smart mother

So IAMS...why did your kids (both of them) accept christ??

Did you get them to do so??

Did you influence them at all??

Because something tells me they didn't do this on their own.....they had it brought on to them

I could no more withold the truth of God's love than I could, food, clothing, medication, or love from them. Both of my kids are saved and growing steadily in their walk with Christ.

Saved?? from what IAMS??.... What are they saved from??....What have you got them to think they are saved from??

Please note I am not getting at you...I just want to know what is it?? after all many have different idea of WHAT people need to be saved from...cheers!!

But, the Bible is a book written by very wise men, who walked with God and were used by God to communicate

Written by a lot of men... ..but this is only your belief...not fact..and further more IAMS...as there is no proof these man walked with God...all this is ......is pure beliefs.....pitty they wernt facts eh??

Children are ignorant.

If you mean they are not clued in as yet then YES..but heck everyone knows that...but using the word IGNORANT is a tad unfair

. If you do not teach them the values you have experienced as correct, believe me, someone else will teach them other values.

STOP!!!!!!!!!!...Wait!!!!.......so...because you have had jesus drummed into you..and you where once made believe..it's the only way - be a christian.............you carry it on to your children too??

IAMS....I was taught right from wrong...................granted I will teach my kid the same

I was taught that education is important..........I will make sure that I let Becky know this

I was told Jesus was the way..and so the bible held truth..............as a KID YES..I sure was...but wait............later from the age of 14...my father told me to chose whatever path i wanted and make up my own mind...be myself and judge it my OWN way

Have a wild guess what I did?? .........I took my own path...and came to the conclusion its a false bible...it doesnt add up to ME................

So.......as a parent...like you IAMS.....do I think I should teach my child the same as what you have with your bible experiences???..................NO....NO..& a great big NO I shall not teach my child to be the same as me

I was given a chance in life to think for myself IAMS....and that I did..............ok I turned away from a bible...but I CHOSE to believe in God...I CHOSE TO...not my parents...not some religious teacher....only - ME MYSELF & I chose to believe............

The effects it had on me????

I no longer felt I HAD to do anything...........I was freeI was still a good person................STILL did my school work.............STILL respected my parents..and teachers ................but NO BIBLE

Back to what I was saying IAMS...do I (like you have)....teach MY CHILD...just what I have experienced that I feel is good??

that answer is NO.............I will let my child go at her own pace...if she has questions..I'll answer them...........if she decides to drop the bible...so be it...............heck if she wants to be a preacher...lol so be it.....its HER CHOICE ...NOT MINE

Here is how I look at it IAMS...if your child is not doing any harm at all....then dont force anything on to them....give them credit...lots of credit....and if they say..look no more bible...dont make them keep it up.....as long as they are doing fine....leave them be

Children learn by mimicking,

Tell me about it LOL only thing is...she is mimicking the lil boys she gets minded with when I am at work..and at 12 months...she is picking her nose, cuz the lil boys that stay with her do it all the time

I love my children too much to unleash the world on them without preparing them.

You sure do love your kids..I for one can't question that....

But you sound like you are wrapping them in cotton wool too much...........let them breath IAMS.....you can't be with them 24/7...............

Here issomething to tell you...

When a child is between 4 - 10 yrs old....they are still innocent and will follow whatever you tell them... (most will)...but once they hit early teens and go on from there...IAMS a lot and I mean a LOT will go the opposite direction

They begin to think more freely (if they are allowed to lol)..for themselves...later as they get older they understand what is right and wrong.................and make up their OWN minds if you like it or NOT

Is this a bad thing IAMS?? noo not really but let them breath and live a normal childhood

(you will soon see what I mean by that in a moment)

This philosophy of letting kids decide on their own is in great part responsible for the increase in crime, teen pregnancy, teen suicide, school violence, lower educational abilities, and also for the increasing number of psychopaths out in the world.

IAMS...you have it all wrong.............that kinna thing only ever happens with kids that have parents that dont give a rats **** about them...and they grow up in that inviorment

But I was told I could make my mind up and think for myself...meaning certain issues in life

I still KNEW right from wrong..................I liked school (some of the time lol)........I had respect............... I have a good nature.........<--that lone is enough for me...........but I was STILL told to think for myself...cuz I will only learn as I go along....

I didnt wind up in bad company................I didnt fall pregnant as a teen( 1st fell preggers at 30) .........I didnt commit a crime....do drugs either NO...............but still thought for myself...and leaned on what I was taught

I have done a lot of stupid wrong things in my life..but they made me stronger IAMS..and I learnt by my mistakes....my mom cut the cord 32 years ago...everyone learns on their own

SO you are WRONG in that respect (IMO of course)

So, you are basically asking me to let you teach my children your values, and I'm sorry but I don't know anyone outside my family who I would trust to teach them something as important. If you are willing to do that to your kids, I am sorry for you, for them, and for society.

Questions - Are you putting those who don't teach bible and christ to their kids down?? Why are you sorry for them?? here is something for you then....if you keep wrapping your child in cotton wool and preaching Jesus to them all the time...you could do more harm than good..it happens

Teach your kids your values, and teach them to think,

To think??? for who?? you?? or think for themselves?? Or think how you want them to think?? if that's the case why didn't you just get a robot??

but TEACH them something so they don't learn their values from video games and movies. Be a parent!!!!

If you teach a child reality and what is right and wrong..then video games will not influence them...if the kid is sensible enough..they will only see video games as fun..thats it FUN and to some a hobby...let them be kids IAMS

I had a great childhood...ok my dad was strict...but at the same time he let us all have fun..play ect...and yes video games where part of it...we didn't go out looking for fights or trouble ..because we saw a movie or played a video game LOL..we wernt that stupid

Edited September 18, 2006 by Beckys_Mom

[IamsSon]

Fascinating! On one hand you boldly claim you served the army and believe in and defend the 1st Amendment.

Biblically based moral stand can only be a blessing for our country.

I am NOT going to allow you to put words in my mouth. As the qoute you have in your post shows all I said is that I think it's great to have a Christian moral stand.

WHERE DID I SAY IT SHOULD BE THE GOVERNMENTAL POLICY!?

NOWHERE!!!!!

As a Christian, I would of course see Biblically based morals as a blessing, but that is FAR, FAR from saying I would support a Christian Theocracy in the U.S.

Imaginary, I served to protect and defend the Constitution so you could believe what you want to believe, but also so I and my family could also freely believe what we want to believe. I am sorry that you are opposed to giving me that right, but it is guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution. THANK GOD!

STOP TRYING TO PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH!

As to the rest of your post... that's YOUR opinion of what a Christian nation would do, and you can quote passages as much as you want that is not how I as a Christian think and I think the other Christians on this site would take serious offense at you trying to dictate what a Christian based nation would be like because I don't think any of us would support what you are saying.

[Beckys_Mom]

There it is again you call yourself a christian and yet claim you do not belong to a religion such as christianity...that don't make sense..no offence IAMS!!

[Michelle]

What people throughout generations have failed to notice (in the US anyway) is that the more you drum something into a childs head the harder they rebel the first chance they get.

Viola...here I am and numerous other people to prove it...

[Beckys_Mom]

What people throughout generations have failed to notice (in the US anyway) is that the more you drum something into a childs head the harder they rebel the first chance they get.

Viola...here I am and numerous other people to prove it...

EXCELLENT point..and it's true..so darn true...

[Stellar]

As to my proof of God, yes, I do have proof of him, but it is personal proof.

There is no such thing as "personal proof" unless you redefine what proof is. You have personal reasons, but not proof.

I never said that!

Oh no? Isnt this what you said:

However, I think that having a clear, Biblically based moral stand can only be a blessing for our country

And then:

Sam, may i ask what these wonderful morals are that a child can't do without from the bible??? that some how a child couldn't get morals some other way.then filtered through fear construct,....

Well for starters: "Love the Lord your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength, and love yor neighbor as yourself."

Do you deny saying this? The implication of which would lead to a Christian nation. Since its enforcing such Christian "morals' as you've pointed out ("Love thy Lord your God"), you can effectively say it would become a theocracy, which generally lead to something similar to a dictatorship, if not one, where it is one group (the christians) imposing their will and "morals" on other groups.

I served as an officer in the U.S. Army and took my oath to protect the CONSTITUTION of the United States VERY seriously and still do. How dare you!!!!!!!!

How dare YOU want to impose your church, your beliefs, on the citizens of a country for which you swore to defend such ideals as freedom of belief?

I said nothing about enforcing one religion over any one.

Maybe you didnt mean to, but you certainly did.

in fact I served in the military to protect this and our other rights.

Ironic, isnt it?

[MadMachine]

EXCELLENT point..and it's true..so darn true...

In a lot of cases probably, but not all.

My mom (only living parent) is a moderate, non-pushy Catholic (though she calls herself Agnostic. lol) and I still became an atheist. She does get somewhat confrontational when I hint at my (dis)belief though.

[Michelle]

...non-pushy is the key word.

[Beckys_Mom]

In a lot of cases probably, but not all.

My mom (only living parent) is a moderate, non-pushy Catholic (though she calls herself Agnostic. lol) and I still became an atheist. She does get somewhat confrontational when I hint at my (dis)belief though.

Like Michelle has said - Non pushy...if she is not pushy..you are good to go

[IamsSon]

So IAMS...why did your kids (both of them) accept christ??

Because they were able to experience His love and truth through their parents, extended family and church family. We do not "force" Christ on kids at our church. We do teach them the Bible stories and tell them about Christ, but the majority of them have not accepted Christ as their savior, but a large number of them do. I know many of you do not believe this and that is too bad, I am not a liar, I am telling you the truth, but you don't know me and so cannot judge me well. My son approached me about wanting to accept Christ as his savior, my daughter asked her brother to help her on her own one night as they were getting ready for bed.

Did you get them to do so??

No, I didn't, but I'm sure you will not believe that.

Did you influence them at all??

I sure hope so, after all I try to influence everyone I come into contact with by being a good Christian.

Did I, my wife or anyone at my church tell my kids they needed to accept Christ or go to hell? Believe it or not... no. We tell kids about Christ and who He is and what He did for them. We talk about sin and that choosing to sin leads to death, but we do not make a huge issue about hell, and we mostly leave this to the parents. We stress that accepting Christ allows God's love to be expressed through them. Not all kids in our church have accepted Christ, not all adults in our church have accepted Christ, no one is forcing them to... but I hope that through our lives and who we are and how we are, we are influencing them.

Because something tells me they didn't do this on their own.....they had it brought on to them

Sure they did, but will you accept that, I don't know. My kids are far from being robots, and I am not an autocratic father. My kids see the type of people, I, my wife, our friends are and that has influenced them.

Saved?? from what IAMS??.... What are they saved from??....What have you got them to think they are saved from??

Please note I am not getting at you...I just want to know what is it?? after all many have different idea of WHAT people need to be saved from...cheers!!

Saved from the effect of sin... eternal death.

If you mean they are not clued in as yet then YES..but heck everyone knows that...but using the word IGNORANT is a tad unfair

ig·no·rant (ĭg'nər-ənt) pronunciation

adj.

1. Lacking education or knowledge.

2. Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge: an ignorant mistake.

3. Unaware or uninformed.

Children ARE ignorant. That is why God set up the family unit. Because they don't know enough to take care of themselves...ignorant.

STOP!!!!!!!!!!...Wait!!!!.......so...because you have had jesus drummed into you..and you where once made believe..it's the only way - be a christian.............you carry it on to your children too??

Jesus was not "drummed" into me. I was 14 when I accepted Christ, and I did so at the same time my parents did. No one forced him on me. As a person who knows the love of Christ and the wonder of having a personal relationship with God, I want my children, family, friends, neighbors, the whole world to know the joy and peace that freedom from sin brings.

IAMS....I was taught right from wrong...................granted I will teach my kid the same

I was taught that education is important..........I will make sure that I let Becky know this

I was told Jesus was the way..and so the bible held truth..............as a KID YES..I sure was...but wait............later from the age of 14...my father told me to chose whatever path i wanted and make up my own mind...be myself and judge it my OWN way

Have a wild guess what I did?? .........I took my own path...and came to the conclusion its a false bible...it doesnt add up to ME................

So.......as a parent...like you IAMS.....do I think I should teach my child the same as what you have with your bible experiences???..................NO....NO..& a great big NO I shall not teach my child to be the same as me

As Becky's parent that is YOUR choice. As the parent of MY children it is my choice to bring them up in a Christian environment. I live in a country where I still have that right as a parent, and I am exercising it.

I was given a chance in life to think for myself IAMS....and that I did..............ok I turned away from a bible...but I CHOSE to believe in God...I CHOSE TO...not my parents...not some religious teacher....only - ME MYSELF & I chose to believe............

The effects it had on me????

I no longer felt I HAD to do anything...........I was freeI was still a good person................STILL did my school work.............STILL respected my parents..and teachers ................but NO BIBLE

BM, both of my kids are quite intelligent and inquisitive. I encourage them to learn and find out about things they are curious about. I see my role as parent to prepare them for the world. My son is almost 14 and he knows that my role with him is changing. I no longer tell him what to do and when to do it, I remind him what the house rules are and I help him make decisions, help him review the decisions he has made and share the experiences I have had. As he gets older and more mature my role will keep changing, just like my farther's role has changed with me.

Back to what I was saying IAMS...do I (like you have)....teach MY CHILD...just what I have experienced that I feel is good??

that answer is NO.............I will let my child go at her own pace...if she has questions..I'll answer them...........if she decides to drop the bible...so be it...............heck if she wants to be a preacher...lol so be it.....its HER CHOICE ...NOT MINE

Here is how I look at it IAMS...if your child is not doing any harm at all....then dont force anything on to them....give them credit...lots of credit....and if they say..look no more bible...dont make them keep it up.....as long as they are doing fine....leave them be

Tell me about it LOL only thing is...she is mimicking the lil boys she gets minded with when I am at work..and at 12 months...she is picking her nose, cuz the lil boys that stay with her do it all the time

BM, as Becky's parent it is your choice how she is raised. As my kids parent it is my and my wife's choice, but they are not robots, they will make their choices, I intend to be a loving influence on them as long as they allow me.

You sure do love your kids..I for one can't question that....

But you sound like you are wrapping them in cotton wool too much...........let them breath IAMS.....you can't be with them 24/7...............

You are making a very incorrect assumption here BM, you are way off. My kids have plenty of opportunity to be who they are, we have gone to great lengths to learn their personalities, and to respond to them in a way that recognizes their individuality and we give them great freedom, but we also give them boundaries (I see that as a parent's responsibility) but they are FAR from overprotected (zandore, I am taking care of them though, you don't have to call Child Protective Services)

When a child is between 4 - 10 yrs old....they are still innocent and will follow whatever you tell them... (most will)...but once they hit early teens and go on from there...IAMS a lot and I mean a LOT will go the opposite direction

They begin to think more freely (if they are allowed to lol)..for themselves...later as they get older they understand what is right and wrong.................and make up their OWN minds if you like it or NOT

Is this a bad thing IAMS?? noo not really but let them breath and live a normal childhood

Again, BM you are making an incorrect assumption here. They have plenty of breathing room and have led very normal childhoods.

IAMS...you have it all wrong.............that kinna thing only ever happens with kids that have parents that dont give a rats **** about them...and they grow up in that inviorment

BM, I think YOU have it all wrong, I guess we have different OPINIONS about this.

But I was told I could make my mind up and think for myself...meaning certain issues in life

I still KNEW right from wrong..................I liked school (some of the time lol)........I had respect............... I have a good nature.........<--that lone is enough for me...........but I was STILL told to think for myself...cuz I will only learn as I go along....

I didnt wind up in bad company................I didnt fall pregnant as a teen( 1st fell preggers at 30) .........I didnt commit a crime....do drugs either NO...............but still thought for myself...and leaned on what I was taught

I have done a lot of stupid wrong things in my life..but they made me stronger IAMS..and I learnt by my mistakes....my mom cut the cord 32 years ago...everyone learns on their own

BM, you are making some fantastically wrong assumptions about how my wife and I are raising our children.

SO you are WRONG in that respect (IMO of course)

I am glad to see you recognize this is just your opinion

Questions - Are you putting those who don't teach bible and christ to their kids down??

No, I am not. I am, however, saying I do not agree with their values and intend to raise my kids according to the values I agree with (some of these values are based on my Mexican heritage, some are based on family values, some are based on Christian values, some are based on American values). That is my right and responsibility as a parent.

Why are you sorry for them?? here is something for you then....if you keep wrapping your child in cotton wool and preaching Jesus to them all the time...you could do more harm than good..it happens

BM, you forgot to add that this is your OPINION! And it is a badly informed opinion since you have no idea how I am raising my kids, other than what I have said here.

To think??? for who?? you?? or think for themselves?? Or think how you want them to think?? if that's the case why didn't you just get a robot??

If you teach a child reality and what is right and wrong..then video games will not influence them...if the kid is sensible enough..they will only see video games as fun..thats it FUN and to some a hobby...let them be kids IAMS

Again BM, you forgot to state that this is you OPINION!

I do not agree with the way you seem to be raising Becky, but that is your right and responsibility as a parent. Additionally, I can really have no informed opinion on that since I have had no oppotunity to see what you are doing.

I am glad you are concerned about my kids, but don't worry they are great kids being brought up in a loving home, where they are being allowed to be children and now for my son, teens, and they are having the love of Christ modeled for them by their parents. My kids are wll aware that I am not perfect, but that I love them and will do whatever I need to to take care of them. My wife and I both turned out great and I believe and pray that we are doing at least as good a job with them.

[IamsSon]

There it is again you call yourself a christian and yet claim you do not belong to a religion such as christianity...that don't make sense..no offence IAMS!!

BM, whether you accept it or not, or understand it or not, my personal walk with God is NOT a religion.

[chaoszerg]

Did I, my wife or anyone at my church tell my kids they needed to accept Christ or go to hell? Believe it or not... no. We tell kids about Christ and who He is and what He did for them. We talk about sin and that choosing to sin leads to death,

Anything you choose to do will lead to death not just sin. You should inform them of that.

[Imaginary Friend]

Stellar! Beautiful!

We can all read what Iams said. And we can all read how they deny they said what is in print, to their discredit. However that mentality is there to consider as an example of not just one opinion of what is best for all of America! It's there to be witnessed by all people that believe this is one nation of many people, free to believe in many things.

Because that kind of personality organizes! As we can see by right wing religious zealots like: "Right Wing Christian Coalition" , etc... Terrorist organizations that have one agenda in mind. They think a clear biblically based moral stand can only be a blessing for this country! How does one think that is to be affected beyond just talk? Policy! That's how. And that's exactly what it implies. Regardless of whether or not the mouthpieces for the christian Taliban stand accountable for their intolerant zeal or not. It is a sentiment of divisiveness, bigotry and terror. And if we aren't vigilant in keeping ourselves aware of the agenda of those that seek to take office, or assume a position of authority in any level of our secular community, soon they shall be the right wing christian majority.

And we the people of the United States of America, that are not christian will have cause to remember their prior salvo. The likes of which that agenda forewarned, long before and that reads something like this:

(sic)"... this upcoming generation is one that should worry those who oppose Christianity because they are going to be more overt about living for Christ.

(Article link)

Edited September 18, 2006 by Imaginary Friend

[Beckys_Mom]

I do not agree with the way you seem to be raising Becky, but that is your right and responsibility as a parent.

You don't agree with how I raise Becky...is that so?? WHY?? because I dont force God down her throat?? IAMS she is barely over 12 months old...she can just about say mama & dada along with a few other cute things...it will be a long long time before she understands what and who God is

I dont believe in the bible...............so because I am not going to stop Becky from reading her bible (yea she has 2 of them)...& because I LET her go to church...this is bad in your opinion??

and because I don't teach her the bible is wrong......

...because BM doesnt believe in the bible..but BM doesn't want to force that on to Becky...so BM's idea are so so wrong??? you are in a different world IAMS..........

See the difference between BM and IAMS..is that BM is far from bias...IAMS is not...not in this case he aint...just because he has religious views and follows a religion..he thinks kids must too...but because BM dont follow a religion..but lets her lil girl follow a faith...this is wrong according to IAMS

I dont want to force my personal beliefs on to my child.....I didn't have personal beliefs shoved on to me...so why should I do it IAMS?? WHY??

So should I later on in life tell her the bible is false?? to be like ME?? just to look like a good parent IAMS?? LOL get outta here

I want her to judge it for herself

How dare you base my parenting on religion and anything to do with religion...

Religion has NOTHING IMO NOTHING to do with how a child is raised meaning good or bad.....

Now get down off your pedestal and look at reality IAMS thats not how it all goes...

You have a brass neck on you IAMS looking down on the way I raise becky....

This is what religion does to people...no thanks you can keep it..I have too much respect for myself

I havent looked at the rest of your rant....because its hard to read...I saw what you said about my parenting and that was ENOUGH..thats where I draw the line...for I NEVER told you that I don't agree with the way you parent your kids...I asked you questions but those questions I asked you where too silly to look and see that some are just questions NOT ASSUMPTIONS

Edited September 18, 2006 by Beckys_Mom

[IamsSon]

Stellar and Imaginary Friend,

I APOLOGIZE.

Apparently, somewhere in what I said there was an implication that I had absolutely NO intention of implying.

I have absolutely no interest in seeing the United States or any other country become a CHRISTIAN THEOCRACY.

However, if you have read any of my other posts you should see that I never imply anything. As unpopular as any of my beliefs may be, I am open about them.

If I had intended to say I supprted some sort of Christian Theocracy to exist in the United States I would have said so openly.

Please refrain from attempting to interpret what I may have implied or not, because you were way off. I will be more than happy to clarify any point I make if you have questions about it.

Edited September 18, 2006 by IamsSon

[IamsSon]

You don't agree with how I raise Becky...is that so?? WHY??

Because I don't, that is my opinion, I am free to hold whatever opinion I want, just like you are free to hold whatever opinion you have.

[Beckys_Mom]

Because I don't, that is my opinion, I am free to hold whatever opinion I want, just like you are free to hold whatever opinion you have.

Ohh look IAMS you can spell opinion...and put it in big green font just for ME ohh I must be special

Look here...just because one mother does not believe in forcing her beliefs on to her child...does NOT make her a bad mother...PERIOD and you can keep your OPINION...because your OPINION means as much to me as your bible does

Edited September 18, 2006 by Beckys_Mom

[IamsSon]

Ohh look IAMS you can spell opinion...and put it in big green font just for ME ohh I must be special

Look here...just because one mother does not believe in forcing her beliefs on to her child...does NOT make her a bad mother...PERIOD and you can keep your OPINION...because your OPINION means as much to me as your bible does

BM, I was just trying to clarify that I had meant nothing of what you wrote when you asked your question. I was merely expressing MY opinion like you had expressed yours.

[Beckys_Mom]

BM, I was just trying to clarify that I had meant nothing of what you wrote when you asked your question. I was merely expressing MY opinion like you had expressed yours.

I didnt say I disagreed with your parenting IAMS

I would only say that if you where teaching your children wrong and how to be bad lil gits....but thats not the case....you on the other hand gave your OPINION sayingI wasnt raising becky right....all because I wont force my beliefs down her throat...thats NUTS

Gimme one good reason WHY I should tell Becky the bible is false...just because I believe it is??

Go ahead answer that one question tell me WHY??

Just because you think its right for a parent to push their beliefs on to their kids ...and you find someone like me that doesnt....this does not make me a bad parent or anyone else for that matter

Hey I smoke IAMS should I teach becky that too?? just because I do it??

Edited September 18, 2006 by Beckys_Mom

[IamsSon]

I didnt say I disagreed with your parenting IAMS

I would only say that if you where teaching your children wrong and how to be bad lil gits....but thats not the case....you on the other hand gave your OPINION sayingI wasnt raising becky right....all because I wont force my beliefs down her throat...thats NUTS

Gimme one good reason WHY I should tell Becky the bible is false...just because I believe it is??

Go ahead answer that one question tell me WHY??

Just because you think its right for a parent to push their beliefs on to their kids ...and you find someone like me that doesnt....this does not make me a bad parent or anyone else for that matter

Hey I smoke IAMS should I teach becky that too?? just because I do it??

o·pin·ion (ə-pĭn'yən) pronunciation

n.

1. A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof

Because it's my OPINION, BM that is why, it is simply my opinion, I can have whatever opinion I want to have and it has to make no sense to anyone else, that is what is so great about opinions, they do not have to be well informed or anything, they are simply opinons.

Edited September 18, 2006 by IamsSon

[zandore]

Film Shows Youths Training to Fight for Jesus

New Documentary Features Controversial Bible Camp, Evangelical Movement

By DAN HARRIS

ABC News

Just shows that Christian violence is still alive and kicking (no pun intended)

An interesting video...

Linky

[Beckys_Mom]

o·pin·ion (ə-pĭn'yən) pronunciation

n.

1. A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof

Because it's my OPINION, BM that is why, it is simply my opinion, I can have whatever opinion I want to have and it has to make no sense to anyone else, that is what is so great about opinions, they do not have to be well informed or anything, they are simply opinons.

Ohh look and you can look the word up as well as spell it...impressive

IAMS likes to force his beliefs on to his kids

BM thinks kids should not have beliefs pushed on to them

IAMS says BM is a bad parent

And once more IAMS can NOT answer my previous question ...he can go and look up words in a dictionary...but can't answer a simple question

Gimme one good reason WHY I should tell Becky the bible is false...just because I believe it is??

Go ahead answer that one question tell me WHY??

Just because you think its right for a parent to push their beliefs on to their kids ...and you find someone like me that doesnt....this does not make me a bad parent or anyone else for that matter

Hey I smoke IAMS should I teach becky that too?? just because I do it??

IAMS shall I break the question down for you this time??

Question (again) is -- Should BM tell her kid the bible is false?<--see if you can answer it THIS TIME

Edited September 18, 2006 by Beckys_Mom