Don't join the army

[Princess Serenity]

When I was younger, I was thinking about joining. But now that I've heard stories & everything. My mind was changed, now I've read your stories I don't even want to join. I was going to be in the Navy because they offered some things. =/ I'm just glad my mind changed when I was still young.

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

If they kill our people, then run back home, you don't go into their country and blow them up. If you see them trying to kill our people, you kill them.

Why do you think you go to jail for getting revenge on someone, but not if you're doing it in self defence?

They come kill our people. We destroy them wherever they are.

Edited October 3, 2006 by ericraven2003

[Celumnaz]

I heard someone say:

It's not revenge it's punishment.

[dmurdock36]

We would all love to live in a society without wars, I would love to know that nobody meant me any harm and I could walk freely without any fear, but the truth is that the human species is a mean vindictive creature hell bent on destruction. The fact that these brave young men and women put themselves in harms way to protect our way of life makes them all heroes and should be thanked. So to all of those on here that serve or have loved ones that serve may I just say thank you and god bless.

[ShaunZero]

They arrest him if they can... if the guy fights back, they call in SWAT and most likely kill him.

Are you saying every military operation results in 100+ innocent people being killed?

You know what? A military operation is a lot like a worst case police scenario... the army is the equivalent of SWAT, but in the military operation, the scale is MUCH much bigger than on the almost pedestrian SWAT operation.

Which can all be avoided if we stayed here and worried about what was going on here. If they come here, and stay here trying to kill our people, go ahead and kill them, I won't complain. But once they leave our country, therefore not a threat at present, I say leave them alone. Any further action would be catagorized as revenge in my opinion.

They come kill our people. We destroy them wherever they are.

Sounds like revenge to me. I wouldn't feel so bad if it was done differently. The way people in the military talk and act, it makes them seem almost "evil" if evil ever existed. I just can't help but not like the vibe I get from those types of people. Especially the way they talk to people being trained and new recruits. Their hearts are filled with nothing but hate.

Edited October 3, 2006 by Zero of Deism

[Stellar]

Which can all be avoided if we stayed here and worried about what was going on here.

Oh really? That didnt stop anything in the past...

If they come here, and stay here trying to kill our people, go ahead and kill them, I won't complain. But once they leave our country, therefore not a threat at present, I say leave them alone. Any further action would be catagorized as revenge in my opinion.

Are you joking? Do you have any idea how they work? They come here to attack you, then they plan and train more for the next attack wherever they are somewhere else. The only way you'll prevent attacks and save lives is by going after them.

Especially the way they talk to people being trained and new recruits.

Really? How do they talk to them, hmm?

Their hearts are filled with nothing but hate.

You're talking from experience, I'm sure

[ShaunZero]

Really? How do they talk to them, hmm?

Why are you asking me, weren't you in the army or something?

You're talking from experience, I'm sure

I don't need to be IN the army to have experience with them. Just watch some of those videos postted ealier and that'll give you an idea of how they work.

[Northwoods Imp]

You know what?

If my husband dies in this war he will have died for all of you to say the ignorant things that you do.

And I'd still be proud.

As someone else said, don't join if you don't want to, but there's no need to disrespect those of us who choose to make a life of the military.

And kudo's to you also, coldethyl....I am a 20 year retired Army wife and I know how hard your job is too!

[Stellar]

Why are you asking me, weren't you in the army or something?

Why am I asking? Because I infact DO know how they talk to them... I dont see you havent any experience with the subject though...

I don't need to be IN the army to have experience with them. Just watch some of those videos postted ealier and that'll give you an idea of how they work.

Of course... if you watch anti-military video's, they're all true... but pro-military videos are just all lies, and more lies. That's how it is, right?

[3pumps]

It's interesting to see that there are no video's like this for other army's. The British army for example, which i'm signing up for shortly.

[zukie&jim]

you're in the army now !,

you're not behind a plow ! ,

you'll never get rich ! ,

you son of a B%@ !

you're in the ARMY now !

well all i got to say is this --if you join any armed service just for your own selfish reasons --i don't want your sorry @ss in my outfit!

if your a winy spoiled brat with no discipline and no dedication i don't need you .

if you don't have the guts or the dedication your whats called a negative asset--that means somebody has to cover your @ss--in other words the armed forces are not there to babysit your sorry @ss! we do serious stuff like fight wars. we don't play . and this ain't a joke . when you pull a trigger , push a button someone likely dies--if you do the task wrong it could be YOU. if you fail to do your duty it could cost your life or the lives of your comrades .

before you even think about joining--look in the mirror--if you don't have what it takes--don't waste our time or endanger my comrades by sending a gut-less wonder to the field of action . the the armed forces aren't for everyone. and i would rather have one motivated MARINE that 100 un motivated "where the chow hall ?"--riding the sick-bay" goldbricks !

[Aztec Warrior]

"I told the padre the truth, man: I like it here. You get to do what you want. Nobody ****s with you. The only worry you got is dyin', and if that happens you won't know about it anyway. So what the ****, man?"

[ShaunZero]

Why am I asking? Because I infact DO know how they talk to them... I dont see you havent any experience with the subject though...

Of course... if you watch anti-military video's, they're all true... but pro-military videos are just all lies, and more lies. That's how it is, right?

It's only logical sense that the anti-military videos will focus on the bad, and vice versa for the pro-military. But if you watch both, and put two and two together, you'll get the conclusion I've come upon. However, you must note, this is not the only thing I've done to come to this conclusion.

I know many people who were harrassed by a recruiters. One reletive of mine had to ORDER them to leave. They went over to her house and harrassed her and her son, name calling, making threats, etc.. Just because her son didn't want to join.

My cousin was in the National Gaurd, and he's also told me stories...

Also, I know it's just movies, but being that it's the same on EVERY movie, it must have some relation to the truth. They talk to these young men and women like they are pieces of CRAP. Look at how badly screwed up some of these Vietnom Vets are.

jsf35rino is a good example. Look at how he talks so disrespectfuly against those who don't WANT to join the army. They're gutless, eh? Maybe they just have common sense.... Or maybe they'd like to have a good life and get a good education so they can worry about themselves and their families, rather than go into another country, killing tons of people, then returning messed up in the head with memories to haunt him for the rest of his life. After the war, he may not even have time for an education. If he even returns alive.

Edited October 4, 2006 by Zero of Deism

[Fluffybunny]

Why are you asking me, weren't you in the army or something?

I don't need to be IN the army to have experience with them. Just watch some of those videos postted ealier and that'll give you an idea of how they work.

Does that mean that if you watch videos from a klan meeting you will also know how jews and black people "work" as well?

[ShaunZero]

If I had a reason to believe what they said was true, then yes. But I don't.

So, are you saying these videos are nothing but lies?

[zukie&jim]

yep gutless -spinless spoiled brats--that need babysitters--lol

[coldethyl]

And kudo's to you also, coldethyl....I am a 20 year retired Army wife and I know how hard your job is too!

Thanks! I'm a 10 year USAF wife. Your words mean a lot!

[Fluffybunny]

If I had a reason to believe what they said was true, then yes. But I don't.

So, are you saying these videos are nothing but lies?

I am not saying that are nothing but lies or nothing but truth, my point is that one cannot base their understanding of a subject strictly on anti-anything types of videos. There are two sides of the story and you only have exposure to one side.

As I said earlier, unless you WANT to join the Army, you should not join the Army, it is pretty clear that it is a life altering decision that takes a great deal of thought and research. It isn't like buying a home or even getting married; both of those things can be reversed rather quickly(Sadly so in the later), but the commitment to the military is for the term agreed to in the beggining of the enlistment like it or not.

I personally think it is ridiculous to run around saying "don't join the Army" for the fact that some recruiters have lied to people. Considering that many of the anti military people here have never been in the military it really is an empty argument; like me telling people to never take the Space Shuttle to the Space Station. I have never done it and the best I can do to support my argument would be second and third hand information; hardly a valid platform to argue a point from.

If you have been in the military you know what the good and bad aspects are. In my experience there were people that joined for the wrong reasons, some because it was a family history they felt obligated to carry on, some for educational possibilities. Both of those are not a good reason to join. It takes a level of dedication and sacrifice that few understand, let alone have experienced.

If you do not want to join the military, then don't join the military; I don't think they would want you anyway. You have your beliefs and are entitled to them but that does not mean that you have an understanding of the situation that allows you to speak definitively on the matter. To base your "advice" on a few anti military videos is flat out silly and shows that you do not have a full understanding of the situation, nor the background to be able to speak definitively on the matter.

Recruiters are no different than anyone of us. Most are good people trying to do the right thing, some are willing to misrepresent themselves to get what they want. In my opinion what you are trying to do is no different than the recruiters willing to BS their way into getting people to do what they want them to.

[ShaunZero]

I am not saying that are nothing but lies or nothing but truth, my point is that one cannot base their understanding of a subject strictly on anti-anything types of videos. There are two sides of the story and you only have exposure to one side.

But you are the one calling it the anti-military videos. What if it's just as simple as it appears to be? A video with a few people who've had experiences with the military, and wish to warn others about it.

[Fluffybunny]

What was the title of this thread?

[Stellar]

It's only logical sense that the anti-military videos will focus on the bad, and vice versa for the pro-military. But if you watch both, and put two and two together, you'll get the conclusion I've come upon.

Oh really? I have, AND I have the experience to guage whether that conclusion is accurate or not!

I know many people who were harrassed by a recruiters.

What does that have with actually being in the army, and my question?

One reletive of mine had to ORDER them to leave. They went over to her house and harrassed her and her son, name calling, making threats, etc.. Just because her son didn't want to join.

Gee, it appears they're picking up tactics from the anti-military people!

My cousin was in the National Gaurd, and he's also told me stories...

And what stories would these be, hmm?

Also, I know it's just movies, but being that it's the same on EVERY movie, it must have some relation to the truth. They talk to these young men and women like they are pieces of CRAP.

Lmfao, what kind of movies do you watch?

Enemy at the Gates---Definitly not a movie based on their soldiers being "pieces of crap", infact the guy was considered a very valuable asset.

Saving Private Ryan---The name says it all.

We Were Soldiers---The Col. considered all his troops valuable.

Please, tell me, in which movie did it show that the soldiers are pieces of crap, hmm? And then tell me why you're ignorant enough to assume that that is what reality is like?

Hmm, maybe you just have to experience it before being capable of making a judgment on it...

Look at how badly screwed up some of these Vietnom Vets are.

One major distinction to make here is that during Vietnam there was a draft...

Look at how he talks so disrespectfuly against those who don't WANT to join the army. They're gutless, eh? Maybe they just have common sense....

Look at how disrespectfully you talk against those who WANT to join the army. They dont have common sense, eh?

I cant believe you're even suprised at the reaction you're causing some people to have. They join, they fight to protect people, and then some of those people go and tell them that they're useless, they did nothing right, and that they know how to do the job better.

Or maybe they'd like to have a good life and get a good education so they can worry about themselves and their families, rather than go into another country, killing tons of people, then returning messed up in the head with memories to haunt him for the rest of his life. After the war, he may not even have time for an education. If he even returns alive.

And then there are those who sacrifice all that because they think that what they're doing is right and it helps others... yet they get criticised by those like you mentionned who had a nice comfortable life in comparison.

[ShaunZero]

Quite busy, so let me reply to what I really want to at the moment:

tell me why you're ignorant enough to assume that that is what reality is like?

I didn't. It's a pretty good indicator though. Ever hear the producers talking about their movies, saying they want to get it as accurate as possible?

And then there are those who sacrifice all that because they think that what they're doing is right and it helps others...

No doubt about that. They think they are doing right, that's not a doubt... Which is why it all comes down to opinion. So this arguement will just go in a circle. You may agree with the way the military works, I may not. But you seem to take everything I say as if it means nothing. When I make comments on knowing people in the military, you act like it's useless because I havn't been in there. That's illogical in my opinion. You mean I should assume my own family members are lying to me about the things they told me about?

Look at how disrespectfully you talk against those who WANT to join the army. They dont have common sense, eh?

I only said that to give him a taste of his own medicine. It's called "screwing around".

Gee, it appears they're picking up tactics from the anti-military people!

Maybe so. I never commented on if I agree with these "Anti-Military" people. First of all, I don't even know what you consider "Anti-Military People". I'm simply talking about those who I believe to be being honest about the things they talk about. Put yourself in their shoes. Let's say they DID have bad experiences in the military, and they WERE treated like crap. What do you expect them to want to do? Get the word out about it... Then you just assume they're lying and full of crap, then call them "Anti-Military People" as if to group them into the "quacks" catagory.

Here is my entire reason for posting here. These are my opinions:

- If what these kids say in these videos are true, something is definitley wrong with the military and someone should do something. Either it is or it isn't true. No real way to know right now.

- I do not find taking the offense and going over there to kill is a good option. This is all subjective and there are no "absolute wrongs or rights". So no use debating this, as it's up to each individual.

Edited October 4, 2006 by Zero of Deism

[dmurdock36]

When you join the military they have to break you down, and rebuild you a soldier, they are preparing you for combat if they didnt do that you would run screaming from the front line and put the whole unit in jeopardy, these people know what they are doing it is not there first dog and pony show. If you dont like that treatment dont join everyone isnt cut out to be a soldier, but without those soldiers our lives would be a whole lot less safe. I personally sleep well at night knowing that these brave men and women are out there protecting our rights and freedom. If it werent for our brave soldiers you wouldnt be able to express your opinions on this forum, you might even be a slave for some dictator who wasnt afraid to take a stand. So gripe all you want and those brave men will still fight for your right to do so. They deserve respect.

[ShaunZero]

I have a gun in my house, I'll protect myself. I don't feel anymore safe with people being killed across the ocean.

This "break down" and "rebuild" stuff just screws most people up in the head. Do you know what a soldier is? A friggin killing machine. We teach kids in school not to use violence to solve problems, then when they get older we teach them about war. Go figure.

Edited October 4, 2006 by Zero of Deism

[Stellar]

I didn't. It's a pretty good indicator though. Ever hear the producers talking about their movies, saying they want to get it as accurate as possible?

Ever hear of those with experience in the matter say "Thats so hollywood"?

Im willing to bet you have, but you dont want to accept it.

And please... dont forget to answer my question... What movie was it that you saw that described it like that?

I rather doubt you're talking about movies such as the miniseries: "Band of Brothers"!

They think they are doing right, that's not a doubt... Which is why it all comes down to opinion.

Just to come back and see people disrespecting them.

If you're going to complain about how they do their jobs, be damn sure you've been put throw equal or worse.

But you seem to take everything I say as if it means nothing.

Indeed, I do... because you have no expertise over the matter. You have no relevance. Why should a soldier listen to a civilian's opinion on what a soldier's life is like? Or how the army is?

When I make comments on knowing people in the military, you act like it's useless because I havn't been in there. That's illogical in my opinion.

Really? Well think of this. You have been exposed to a couple of people in the military who, being disgruntled, will show and even exaggerate the negative. On the other hand, I am exposed to MANY, MANY more people in the military, I have a more accurate sample of what people's attitudes are like, who belongs and who doesnt, AND, since I am part of it, I can tell you exactly what its like to be in the army. You, however, cant.

You mean I should assume my own family members are lying to me about the things they told me about?

When trying to take a poll to find out who will win an election, do you only poll the 3 people that game up to you and said "This person sucks" and then believe their view on the matter outright?

I only said that to give him a taste of his own medicine. It's called "screwing around".

Sounds like revenge to me...