Don't join the army

[dmurdock36]

I have a gun in my house, I'll protect myself. I don't feel anymore safe with people being killed across the ocean.

This "break down" and "rebuild" stuff just screws most people up in the head. Do you know what a soldier is? A friggin killing machine. We teach kids in school not to use violence to solve problems, then when they get older we teach them about war. Go figure.

Lets see the militaries job is to break stuff and kill people all the things we as citizens dont want to have any part of. If the military doesnt do it who will?

[ShaunZero]

And please... dont forget to answer my question... What movie was it that you saw that described it like that?

Can't remember names. I've only watched a few and that was over 4-5 years ago. I'm being honest too. Say as you will.

Just to come back and see people disrespecting them.

Anyone who hears a person with a different opinion will feel that way.

Indeed, I do... because you have no expertise over the matter. You have no relevance. Why should a soldier listen to a civilian's opinion on what a soldier's life is like? Or how the army is?

This just shows your ignorance. Aren't you "fighting for us"? My opinion is not on the life of a soldier outside of the military, I could care less how they live. My opinion is in the way they act, and their actions. I disagree with war, that is my opinion, get over it. All I'm doing and have been doing is disagreeing with your outlook on war. You take it personally. Not my fault...

Really? Well think of this. You have been exposed to a couple of people in the military who, being disgruntled, will show and even exaggerate the negative.

You have no idea if that's even true. So your commet holds no relevance. I could argue that you're exagerating the good using the same logic, and just ignore the entire debate.

I can tell you exactly what its like to be in the army. You, however, cant.

According to you it doesn't matter what people say. Who cares if you were in the military? You could be lying or exagerating as well. Just as you assumed the people I know have done. Then ignored what I told you they have said...

When trying to take a poll to find out who will win an election, do you only poll the 3 people that game up to you and said "This person sucks" and then believe their view on the matter outright?

First of all, know. If a random stranger comes up to me and tells me something like that, I'd assume he only wanted to get votes. That's what he's suppose to do right?

Second, I don't vote. Main reason is because I don't know enough FACTS about the people up for election to make an accurate decision. (Don't start on this...)

Sounds like revenge to me...

Sounds like "screwing around" to me. And if it was revenge, there's a big difference in name calling and murder...

Edited October 4, 2006 by Zero of Deism

[Stellar]

Put yourself in their shoes. Let's say they DID have bad experiences in the military, and they WERE treated like crap. What do you expect them to want to do? Get the word out about it...

Yet you are here claiming thats what the whole military is like, everywhere, to everyone, and that simply is not true.

Then you just assume they're lying and full of crap, then call them "Anti-Military People" as if to group them into the "quacks" catagory.

Well, they are anti-military, no? They had a bad experience and now they're against the military, and they claim the military does it to everyone, which is not true. If you joined for the right reasons, you wouldnt react the way 95%, if not 100% of these people do. People who become like this are those that join not because they want to be in the military, but because they either dont know what they're getting themselves into, or because they think they'll take the risk and try to ride their contract out without anything happening, and in essence, get a free ride.

- If what these kids say in these videos are true, something is definitley wrong with the military and someone should do something. Either it is or it isn't true. No real way to know right now.

Yes there is. Experience it for yourself and you'll have an objective view of things. Thats why I can be perfectly confident in saying that, if you're suited for the army, the army is suited for you. You wont come out with complaints.

- I do not find taking the offense and going over there to kill is a good option. This is all subjective and there are no "absolute wrongs or rights". So no use debating this, as it's up to each individual.

Its not subjective at all. Its actually quite logical... if you wait for them to attack you, and all you do is defend, there's a number of ways for them to succeed, because they will have the initiative. If you go over there, *take* the initiative from them, they will be occupied with worrying about defending themselves rather than attacking your country.

I have a gun in my house, I'll protect myself.

Really? The whole god damn German Army couldnt protect themselves nor their country during the Allied offensive in WW2, and they had quite a bit more supplies than you. Of course you, by your lonesome self, would have had no trouble, hmm?

I don't feel anymore safe with people being killed across the ocean.

Ill ask you again when another WWII happens, in that case... or when another country tries to invade yours...

This "break down" and "rebuild" stuff just screws most people up in the head.

Oh really? And what do you judge that by?

I guess I'm just too screwed up in the head to figure it out, hmm?

Edited October 4, 2006 by Stellar

[Stellar]

A friggin killing machine.

Yes, thats what all our soldiers are like, ruthless, heartless killing machines. TAll they do is kill kill kill, nothing more. They're a danger to themselves, the enemy AND society

We teach kids in school not to use violence to solve problems, then when they get older we teach them about war. Go figure.

Funny though... when the bully at school gets his nose broken, he's not so eager to bully the person anymore... Unfortunately that's how it works.

I've only watched a few and that was over 4-5 years ago. I'm being honest too.

Only watched a few now? But I thought that "it's the same on EVERY movie, it must have some relation to the truth. They talk to these young men and women like they are pieces of CRAP."

Anyone who hears a person with a different opinion will feel that way.

No, anyone who hears a person call them "Screwed up, broken down, ruthless killing machines with no common sense." And doesnt even appreciate what they've done, feels that way.

This just shows your ignorance.

Excuse me? Im the one talking from experience... are you?

Aren't you "fighting for us"?

What are you getting at?

My opinion is not on the life of a soldier outside of the military, I could care less how they live.

Read again. I never made any comment on the life of a soldier outside of the military.

My opinion is in the way they act, and their actions.

You have limited to no exposure to how they act and their actions. You are not in any position to form an objective opinion.

I disagree with war, that is my opinion, get over it.

Good, disagree with war, go ahead. I really couldnt give a damn. What bothers peolpe is when others spread lies about how the military is, even though they have no true knowledge on it.

All I'm doing and have been doing is disagreeing with your outlook on war.

With my outlook on war? The majority of this discussion has been about the military, not war.

You have no idea if that's even true. So your commet holds no relevance. I could argue that you're exagerating the good using the same logic, and just ignore the entire debate.

It holds no relevance? Excuse me, but in comparison to me, it is EXTREMELY probable that I've seen MANY MANY more people in the military, and talked to them, than you. Its your argument that has no relevance, because it is baseless.

You could "argue" that Im exaggerating the good... except it wouldnt get you anywhere. I havent been arguing about any "good" aspect of the military, I've just been saying you're not qualified to say that it is bad.

According to you it doesn't matter what people say.

According to me it doesnt matter what YOU, or anyone else lacking experience says. Those with experience, have much more validity in what they say, and those that arent disgruntled, or on the other hand trigger happy, have even more validity.

When someone accepts the few people who say something bad about the military above the many who say that thats not true, and you advocate what the naysayers say... its quite obvious that you are infact biased, whether you know it or not.

Who cares if you were in the military? You could be lying or exagerating as well.

Indeed I can be lying or exaggerating... but what would I be exaggerating and lying about? My posts have been about how you are not qualified to argue the subject, and look at the number of people (also with experience) that have said the same...

Just as you assumed the people I know have done.

I never said those you know in the military have lied, but I do know that exaggeration is common.

First of all, know. If a random stranger comes up to me and tells me something like that, I'd assume he only wanted to get votes. That's what he's suppose to do right?

First of all, I wasnt talking about the candidates, I was talking about citizens that will be voting.

Second, I don't vote. Main reason is because I don't know enough FACTS about the people up for election to make an accurate decision. (Don't start on this...)

Oh, so you dont vote because you dont know enough to make an accurate decision... but you go kicking and screaming about the military, even though you dont have enough facts to make an accurate description!

And if it was revenge, there's a big difference in name calling and murder...

Not all revenge ends in murder.

Edited October 4, 2006 by Stellar

[ShaunZero]

You posted way too much. This is the only thing I've read so far.... And I'm only going to reply to this.. If I get more time I'll come back and reply.

Yet you are here claiming thats what the whole military is like, everywhere, to everyone, and that simply is not true.

No I havn't.

Its not subjective at all. Its actually quite logical... if you wait for them to attack you, and all you do is defend, there's a number of ways for them to succeed, because they will have the initiative. If you go over there, *take* the initiative from them, they will be occupied with worrying about defending themselves rather than attacking your country.

Umm.. yes it is. Unless you want to say your opinion is the absolute correct one.

Edited October 4, 2006 by Zero of Deism

[AtlantisRises]

I can speak from quite recent experience and say that the army/navy recruiters i spoke to were nothing but good and kind. They told me about the hard work and the effort that would go into becoming an Officer, they explained that after the first two weeks of basic training i would feel like i was in hell.

They explained that there are wars today and that i may be placing myself in danger. They explained that the monetary rewards of service were not particularly high.

On the other hand they also pointed out the fine points about military service. The friendships, the fitness, the health, the benifits.

Great super, medical benifits etc.

There is great training and they will pay for my degree.

Basically the Recruiters layed out the pros and cons for the army in black and white. They explained that they had no need for someone who wasn't preparred to give there all for the military.

After their discussion i talked with a LOT of people, my parents, girlfriend, brothers, friends in the military etc.

After a long reflection and lots of thought i have decided to join. But it was my choice and mine alone. I was not pressured by the recruiters or anything like that. I made my own decision and I think it was the right one.

[Stellar]

Umm.. yes it is. Unless you want to say your opinion is the absolute correct one.

No, I'm saying its not a matter of opinion, its a matter of logic. This logic has been tried, tested and proven on the battlefield over the history of the world.

[ShaunZero]

What the hell are you talking about? Are you sure we're not talking about 2 different things? I never stated an opinion on war tactics.

Edited October 5, 2006 by Zero of Deism

[coldethyl]

Zero, don't you even care about all the people you've insulted and offended with this thread?

[ShaunZero]

I havn't insulted anyone in this thread. I've only stated that I don't like the way the army treats some people. Those who treat them the way these kids speak of in the videos. If you are one of these people, then sure you may be upset with me. If not, then what is your problem? I said nothing about you.

Edited October 5, 2006 by Zero of Deism

[coldethyl]

If not, then what is your problem? I said nothing about you.

Okay Mr. Defensive I was just asking a question. You did insult and offend me because my husband serves in the USAF and you have said: This "break down" and "rebuild" stuff just screws most people up in the head. Do you know what a soldier is? A friggin killing machine. My husband is not screwed in the head and neither is he a friggin killing machine. And you said: They "warp" the minds of most who join. and you said: warps you into a "killing machine" with no consciousness. Again this doesn't describe the military people I know at all. And I do find it insulting. That's my problem.

And you know that gun you're going to protect yourself with? Well you wouldn't even be allowed to own it if it weren't for men like my husband. So don't tell me that you're not insulting people.

[ShaunZero]

Everytime you quoted me, you quoted me talking about the ones who actually DO do that.

I'm talking about the ones who tell them they are nothing, tells them they are garbage, and nothing buy maggots, etc...

And you know that gun you're going to protect yourself with? Well you wouldn't even be allowed to own it if it weren't for men like my husband. So don't tell me that you're not insulting people.

I could care less if your husband was in the army or not, that doesn't change my choice to have a gun in the least. At least in my opinion the gun is better in my hands than that of a person in the army.(Not skill wise, so don't even jump on this)

Everyone wants to jump on me, but yet when someone calls those who don't want to join the army gutless and spineless and "they need a babysister", no one says crap. That just shows your ignorance to others' opinions. I'm not even worried about this thread after that....

Edited October 5, 2006 by Zero of Deism

[Michelle]

Evidently ethyl, he doesn't realize that what he's doing is no better than calling all Muslims terrorists. You can't take such a large group of people and make that broad a generalization.

[coldethyl]

I could care less if your husband was in the army or not, that doesn't change my choice to have a gun in the least. At least in my opinion the gun is better in my hands than that of a person in the army.(Not skill wise, so don't even jump on this)

Everyone wants to jump on me, but yet when someone calls those who don't want to join the army gutless and spineless and "they need a babysister", no one says crap. That just shows your ignorance to others' opinions. I'm not even worried about this thread after that....

I never called you anything. You're the one calling names and labelling people.

And you're not even paying attention. My husband isn't in the army. He's in the Air Force.

And if we didn't have people in the Armed Forces you wouldn't have the freedom to own a gun. That's what I meant by my statement.

[ShaunZero]

I'd keep a gun in my house anyway. If I found it more logical to keep a gun in my house, then to follow a law that may get me killed, I'd rather keep the gun.

I never said YOU called me names. Read above. Some other guy did. And I note again: I only talked bad about the people who do what I've been saying. People I know who are close to me, and were in the army have told me things. I am talking bad about THOSE people.

Also, everyone gets upset because I have a different opinion on war. What the hell? I said I don't agree with going into someone else's country and killing them. I have every right to say that, and it is in no way disrespectful. Then I get pounced on for it.

Why aren't we allowed to go into our neighbors house and kill them? I don't see why not... Especially if he's a threat to us and all...

Edited October 5, 2006 by Zero of Deism

[Michelle]

I don't give a crap what your stance on war is...the fact that you are being so insulting about our brave soldiers is what is bugging me.

[ShaunZero]

You still can't show me how I'm being disrespectful. I only stated my opinion on the way they are treated. That's actually in defence of your soldiers!

The way people in the army talk about people who disagree with war bugs ME!

Edited October 5, 2006 by Zero of Deism

[coldethyl]

Also, everyone gets upset because I have a different opinion on war. What the hell? I said I don't agree with going into someone else's country and killing them. I have every right to say that, and it is in no way disrespectful. Then I get pounced on for it.

I showed you exactly what was insulting and disrespectful to me. I have said nothing about war at all.

[ShaunZero]

And I already explained what I meant. And you still keep on...

Unless you're insiting that your husband is the type of person that were talked about in the past few pages of this topic... And the videos. If not, then what the hell is your problem?

Edited October 5, 2006 by Zero of Deism

[coldethyl]

what the hell is your problem?

I don't have a problem. I'm not going on about anything. You seem a bit confused. You need to state what you mean exactly in your original posts or people will take what you say just how you said it.

Now calm down, there's no need to act so violently. One would think you were a killing machine.

[ShaunZero]

Violent? Heh... You've got to be kidding me. I don't see anything in my posts that makes me seem violent towards you or anyone else on here.

Edited October 5, 2006 by Zero of Deism

[coldethyl]

Violent? Heh... You've got to be kidding me. I don't see anything in my posts that makes me seem violent towards you or anyone else on here.

No of course not.

[ShaunZero]

How long have you been in the military Stellar? According to your profile, you're about 18 years old...

[the Shadamaun]

Watch out for low flying Coldethyl.

Whooooosh....

Right over your head

[ShaunZero]

Right over my head? More like ignore her untill she actually points out something that ACTUALLY shows me being violent towards her.