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Mr Slayer

-Abortion-

727 posts in this topic

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ramster83

I am not saying the father has no say. Of course he is free to discuss the topic. However, ultimately it is her body so she has to make the final decision on what happens to it.

true, but how often do humans think before they act?

In the bigger picture (incl. the full effect on society), if we are to be a "free society", then women need to be free to make decisions regarding their bodies as, their economic health, and their lifestyle.

Hmmm yeah Hyper. Its a tough topic no one can deny that. As long as everything is fair . Fair on the girl- fair on her man- fair for the child- the ultimate outcome with communication will ultimately be the best one. If the girl decides all on her own it might be only out of her interests...but shes got a signifficant other and a baby to think about too. Communications the key.

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Sthenno

Ramster, it would only be a double standard if a woman did both.

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Paranoid Android

Sthenno - if you go back to my first post (top of page 2), you'll note that I wrote: "I think having an abortion is the epitome of selfishness". But anyway, my most recent post didn't have anything to do with whether it's murder, but about who has a say in the matter.

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ramster83

Oh and im really enjoying the flow of this topic - i was expecting flaming but everyones putting in their opinions and really well too i might ad. High Five! :tu:

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ramster83

Ramster, it would only be a double standard if a woman did both.

Whats the right word then...?? Hypocritical?

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hyperactive

So if she wants the baby and the male doesn't want one, it's her body and her choice. That's ok, I guess. So let's say the man isn't ready to be a father, so he leaves the woman. Then when the child's born he's hit for child support. Now it's affecting the man also.

It is indeed.

And you could say that if he pays or not is ultimately his choice.

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Sthenno

Whoops, I apologise PA. I read truethat’s post as yours. These eyes ain’t what they used to be! Again, apologies.

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truethat

The father has no say. I think what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

You look at the HUGE double standard in abortion and its wrong.

Ex. A woman says its my body and my right. I don't want to have the child.

If the man wants to have the child then tough, he's not allowed any rights.

But

A woman gets pregnant after a careless one night stand and decides to keep the baby because she doesn't want to have an abortion.

The man says "I don't want to have the baby. I am not ready for the responsibility"

Society says "Tough sh** you have to pay for this child for the next 18 years"

I say men should be able to wave parental responsibility if he states right off the bat that he doesn't want to have the child. Let him sign a document and there ya go.

I don't understand why a woman can give her child up for adoption and thus give up her parental rights and responsibility but a man can not do the same thing when the woman keeps the baby.

Its your body, your right, well then its your responsibility too sweetie.

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Daughter of the Nine Moons

I have to agree with you, Ramster. Its nice to see that a topic in which so many people have strong opinions can be discussed civilly :tu:

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Paranoid Android

^I'm afraid to go to sleep though. At the rate this thread is expanding, I'll wake up with 25 pages of worthwhile discussion to read through :lol:

P.S - no worries, Sthenno. 'tis all good.

Edited by Paranoid Android

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ramster83

It is indeed.

And you could say that if he pays or not is ultimately his choice.

No Child Support is applicated by the Mother is mandatory of the father...from what i recall charges can be layed against the Dad.? Its the law. I think thats correct if im wrong by all means correct me. Cheers.

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Sthenno

On this point I agree with you truethat. Maybe in an ideal world men could sign some kind of pre-natal agreement stating that they do not want the child? I also agree that its nice to see everyone arguing their points civilly. Yay us!

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truethat

On this point I agree with you truethat. Maybe in an ideal world men could sign some kind of pre-natal agreement stating that they do not want the child? I also agree that its nice to see everyone arguing their points civilly. Yay us!

:D

:tu:

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hyperactive

well rammy,

laws are broken (i don't know the stats on this particular one). This does reflect the need for the laws to be updated.

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Sthenno

I don’t know about other countries but in the UK it’s pretty much impossible to get away without paying child support.

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Bella-Angelique

It is indeed.

And you could say that if he pays or not is ultimately his choice.

That makes sense to me. You do not see women who use donated sperm suing the sperm donors for child support. How the sperm got there should not be the determining factor for support, except in a marraige which is a contract that takes that into account.

A single woman should either choose early termination of pregnancy or expect to support the child herself.

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__Kratos__

People... I was gone not even 3 hours... There are now 5 pages... Everybody put down their coffee as they've had wwwwaaaayyy too much of it this morning. :P

I'm in full support of abortion. Having a child inside of you will grant you more risks and such for health problems down the rode. Also then it will alter your life as you see fit. It is th woman's choice fully, I believe, if she wants to have the child or abort it through medical technology.

I am also (This is touchy so don't flame me too much :P ) in complete and full support of 'man abortions' where they choose before the child is born if they want a child or just never have it know you or anything. As it is only fair under Roe vs Wade for fair and equal rights to allow the man as a choice as the woman does. :tu:

edit: went back a page and truethat has already mentioned the 'man abortion' :P I agree! :tu:

Edited by __Kratos__

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truethat

That makes sense to me. You do not see women who use donated sperm suing the sperm donors for child support. How the sperm got there should not be the determining factor for support, except in a marraige which is a contract that takes that into account.

A single woman should either choose early termination of pregnancy or expect to support the child herself.

Excellent point! Totally agree.

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IamsSon

I think you misunderstood me. Even if I did see an unborn child as a life, one person’s thought out decision to terminate it is not the same as a massacre of thousands. It’s just quite clearly not the same thing.

One person x 1000s still equals thousands killed.

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IamsSon

A thought out decision to terminate a preganancy, whether you think of it as an existing life or not, is not the same as the calculated destruction of an entire race.

Truethat – yet again, someone who refuses to accept that it is only your belief it is murder, not a given fact.

Sthenno, the nazis though it out too! It is the same thing, murder.

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Bella-Angelique

One person x 1000s still equals thousands killed.

One dropped carton of fertilized chicken eggs does not equal twelve chickens to fry.

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IamsSon

One dropped carton of fertilized chicken eggs does not equal twelve chickens to fry.

Really? BA, if I were to kill your cow by accident, you could take me to court and sue me not only for the value of the cow, but also for the value of the milk and calves she could have produced. So, even legally one dropped carton of fertilized eggs does equal twelve chickens to fry.

Edited by IamsSon

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hyperactive

egads! how ever can one compare an individual choice to terminate a pregnancy with eugenics? :blink:

if eugenics is your concern Iams, you should focus on the designer baby technologies and applications.

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Bella-Angelique

Since I have been reduced to a cow, I really do not know what to say.

Should I charge my husband for the children I produced for "him" do you think?

Edit - I forgot that since I am the cow the person my husband should pay must be my father who owned mother cow.

Edited by Bella-Angelique

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__Kratos__

One person x 1000s still equals thousands killed.

Abortions have been linked to lower crime rates. Abortions make the world a safer and better place.

You'd rather see a woman suffer though having a child only perhaps die and for sure have higher risks in health problems for life? :hmm:

You'd think Christians would be happy about abortions :blink: I mean, surely the innocent go to heaven, right? Well, unless they're jealous and they take their spite out on forcing the kids to live life.

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