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-Abortion-


Mr Slayer
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gee, wouldn't it be nice if all the anti abortionists would offer to take the child once born and raise it as their own?

Since they are the ones who make such a fuss over it, it seems logical thet THEY should bear the burden.

In my humble opinion, it is a personal choice, that can ONLY be decided by the woman affected, and her mate if she so chooses to include him.

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JM and True, i agree with you guys too...My mother was forced to give up her child for adoption, by her mother who was a product of the times, my mother has not only never gotten over it , it has been the source of alot of conflict between her and her mother all her adult life, her mother still blames her for ruining the family, causing the family shame (she blamed a 15 year old girl for her irresponsibility)...My mother didn't kow anything as many didn't in those days...the point is it was never her mothers decison and my mother has battled guilt and self hatred her entire life and incidently she is Catholic...yet she remains true to her reliogn and yet it was the central core reason down to her not being educated sexually ...As i always say many were too afraid to make the relgion wrong and this is often the outcome...My mother has known great sadness all her adult life and even her religon teaches honor your parents . and in this case her parent was cruel and heinous....not to mention her religon is of no comfort it actually keeps the pain going.... :tu:

Edited by Sympa Sheri
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^ This is a very typical realistic personal experience that has happened after a child beared another and gave it up for adoption. You see the words "gave up." Being a child put into an orphanage knowing this is the term people use when referring to a being an orphan is sad IMO.

"I think having an abortion is the epitome of selfishness".

This is a very harsh thing to say. Regardless of which way you are looking at it, you have never been a female in that circumstance, therefore you do not know how it feels. Its ridiculous to say it is the epitome of selfishness when you are stating your opinion on what you clearly havent experienced. Aside from all the debate, whether its "right" or "wrong." That is selfish.

As for adoption: it can be difficult to consider adoption because of the many thoughts of "what will happen to ...." that occur which run counter to the instinct to "protect". Abortion is an "easier choice" in some regards (i quote it because i am not suggesting it is easy, just that for some women it is easier to live with the thought of termination than of the "what ifs" of their child out there)

This is hard for me not to agree with. I think that if a child is going to be "put up for adoption" (again a term I am not thrilled about) the life that person may lead could be very disheartening, confusing, and lonely, IF they are left in the orphanage or care facility. No matter what, they begin life there, and are taken out to only start a new life, it would be hard to do. Im sorry I just find this a point that is easily over looked, because it is the after affect, which usually does gets ignored because the abortion topic is at constant war.

2) Never claimed a mother had to keep a child, just give it a chance to live. Adoption is a viable option.

This is hard to argue with, when you say "give it a chance," you alter even my own opinion on the matter. I have a hard time with people who are against abortion and result to saying put "it" up for adoption. There is much more to adoption than is talked about. The personal feelings of not being of your true roots and what would have beens...can have a major effect of people their whole lives.

I only speak of this as an issue because I know of someone who committed suicide and blamed it on not knowing their true roots, and feeling alone and unwanted, because they were adopted. I don't know of any other troubles she may have had, but this was her main concern at the time.

I hope I am not taken the wrong way, I don't imply that all people who have been adopted feel this way, no way am I saying that, but, there are many feelings to account for when talking about adoption. Consider it.

Edited by Becca L 143
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What i'd question is why one is deciding that an action is selfish....How can what is best for the person be an act of selfishness???when one decides what is in their best interest it generally ends up being in the best interest of all others....

why wouldn't this be an act defined as the greatest act of unselfishness ????

Hyper, can i get some insight on this thanks?????

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Posted (IP: Staff) ·
A moderator has been in and called for calm. THis is a second and final reminder. If discussion can't remain civil, then the discussion will have to be closed. Thank you
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My 2 cents: I think everyone has the right to do as they please with their own child regardless of what others think. Especially a woman who has been raped.

But, I just don't like the idea of killing a child, and no I'm not a biologist, but I still consider it a child.

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and although he knows he is going to Heaven, he is living with the fact that he killed the woman he loved.

This is absolutely ridiculous. He goes to heaven because he is forgiven? "But he will have bad conscience for eternity"?

It is also a fallacy to play the "what if the child is the result of rape...." card.

The truth is like Ash just admitted, no one knows when life begins, so since we do not know wouldn't the responsible thing be not to destroy what we know will at some unknowable point be human life?

Oh, I really think we should play that card.

I admitted that it takes responsibility, but what I also said was that abortion should be allowed if neccessary, meaning;

rape, incest, or if the mother really can't have the child at the moment.

Isn't it better for a fetus to be "killed" than a child to live in a familiy that really didn't want it?

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I personally do have a friend who was raped. Yes, she did get pregnant. Did she keep the child? Yes she did. Does she love her child? Yes, she does with all of her heart. Does she treat her child different from her other children? No she does not!!

Great. Fine. Her choice. I just wonder what and how the child will feel when it finds out....

I meant abortion should be an option for those that don't want a rape-caused child. Because that's not the case in many countries today.

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Great. Fine. Her choice. I just wonder what and how the child will feel when it finds out....

I meant abortion should be an option for those that don't want a rape-caused child. Because that's not the case in many countries today.

Okay..I typed out a whole response to this but, went back and erased it for personal reasons.

I just wanted to say that I am also a mother to a child who was conceived out of rape.

I don't believe in abortion in any case except for medical reasons. I'm not religious, it is just how I feel.

I feel that any child conceived out of rape is also a victim just as much as the mother is. I look at my daughter as a blessing of life. I NEVER have or will associate her with the rapist. I carried her for 9 months, she is my child.

Now I am happily married and my husband is the only father my daughter has ever known. The rapist is still in prison to this day and all his parental rights have been removed. He is not even listed on her birth certificate. She will never know the circumstances of her conception. There is no need for her to know. She has a father, my husband.

Keeping a child from rape obviously may not be the right choice for every woman. You have to be extremely mentally strong. I wouldn't condemn someone for choosing an abortion is this case. I still think it is wrong, but, more understandable.

Too many people forget that there is always adoption. It is a solution that usually works out good for everyone.

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That is your decision, and I think it's brave and I respect you for it.

Still, there needs to be an option for those who can't or will not make the kind of decision you have.

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Lorelei

You are indeed a woman of courage and insight. :wub:

You had the right to make your choice, if, Gods forbid, one of my partners became pregnant I would support her in whatever decision she made. It is her body her choice.

In the mean time Darkwind is very careful.

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This is absolutely ridiculous. He goes to heaven because he is forgiven? "But he will have bad conscience for eternity"?

No. in the Bible it says that in Heaven there will be no pain, guilt, or tears, so once he's there he will no longer feel the guilt, but until then, I think he will have to keep dealing with it.

Oh, I really think we should play that card.

I admitted that it takes responsibility, but what I also said was that abortion should be allowed if neccessary, meaning;

rape, incest, or if the mother really can't have the child at the moment.

Isn't it better for a fetus to be "killed" than a child to live in a familiy that really didn't want it?

so if you were going to survive an airplane crash, only to be marooned in an inhospitable island with very small hope of survival, you would rather just die in the crash? Many of the great men of history came from difficult childhoods, many of the most horrible men did too, I don't think that is enough of a reason to kill an innocent with unknown potential.

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But Iamson, do you have the right to impose your belief on another. That is what the abortion question boils down to, the right to choose.

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Too many people forget that there is always adoption. It is a solution that usually works out good for everyone.

This was my original point I was attempting to get at in my first post on this thread. The idea of being the product of a rape and then being an orphan, how nice. You would have to be highly empowered mentally, to get over that concept.

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Every human egg and every human sperm has potential to become half of a sentient human being, but they are not one by themselves.

Early cell development of the two combined have the potential to become a sentient human being, but those cells are not one by themselves.

A single living cell, very much alive, very much a part of of a blood system, that comes from the tip of my finger has the potential to be cloned into a sentient human life, but it is not one by itself.

We cannot save every egg, every sperm, and every cell ever produced by the entire human race because it has the potential to become a human being. Law has to be logical and not based upon magical mystical thinking, and there is nothing logical about applying laws created to protect human life on every tiny cell that has the potential to become one.

That is simply quite insane at this point of our understanding and knowledge.

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Posted (IP: Staff) · (edited)

But Iamson, do you have the right to impose your belief on another. That is what the abortion question boils down to, the right to choose.

One could argue that the child is deprived of its right to choose - the right to choose life.

Yeah, I know you weren't asking me, but I just thought I'd put in a suggestion :tu:

Edited by Paranoid Android
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But Iamson, do you have the right to impose your belief on another. That is what the abortion question boils down to, the right to choose.

Well, Darkwind, does a pro-abortion person have the right to impose their belief on me? Every time a child is aborted their belief is being imposed on me.

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A child would be a sentient human and entitled to the full protection of the law.

Cell developement that is not yet a human is not entitled to that protection.

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Posted (IP: Staff) ·

So just to quickly ask a question, when does "cell development" become a human being?

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Well, Darkwind, does a pro-abortion person have the right to impose their belief on me? Every time a child is aborted their belief is being imposed on me.

So, if a woman in Idaho chooses to have an abortion, for her own reasons, how does that affect YOU IAMsSON?

If it were up to anti-abortionists, they would like to have the ability to impose their own beliefs imposed on everyone by making abortion illegal. Thus removing the ability to make a personal decision.

You are forgetting that each person is ultimately responsible for their own life and choices.

By the same token, if life is so sacred, would you make self termination illegal?

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By the same token, if life is so sacred, would you make self termination illegal?

I thought it was, isn't that why we send cops to stop suicide attempts?

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So just to quickly ask a question, when does "cell development" become a human being?

Like all developement, it has to be determined case by case to truly be accurate.

However, it is safe to say that in the first two weeks of pregnancy it is totally ethical for any female to terminate their pregnancy.

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Posted (IP: Staff) · (edited)

^Thanks, BA. Again, just curious, and I'm not trying to start an argument or anything, but why is it "safe to say" that it's ok to end the beginnings of life in the first two weeks?

Edited by Paranoid Android
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Well, Darkwind, does a pro-abortion person have the right to impose their belief on me? Every time a child is aborted their belief is being imposed on me.

Unless you are a pregnant woman, and you were forced to have an abortion, this is incorrect. How many children of rape victims have you adopted? If the answer is none, you have no right to say this. Do you wait outside of abortion clinics, offering to adopt a child of a pregnant woman? If not, neither you, nor any other of people like you, have any room to say these lies. How about a 13 year old girl who didn't understand she could get pregnant, because she was emotionally disturbed, and gave herself to a man because she wanted love? Have you offered to pay hospital bills and ob/gyn services to her, and adopted her chilld, so that she could finish high school, and grow up, living a full life? I doubt it. Don't even accuse me of an ad hominem argument here. You and the other monsters like you have no right interfering with another person's life. This is why abortion is legal in the united states now. Too many women were risking, or losing, their lives at illegal abortion clinics. Too many innocent women were bleeding to death in back alleys. "Pro-abortion" laws are there to protect women. The clinics that perform these procedures are required to make the woman wait, and go through intense counselling, examining other choices, before making this decision. This all boils down to a certain religion trying to impose it's views on others. Judaism, for example, considers a fetus a part of a woman's body until it is born, although, obviously, an abortion more than a few weeks after conception is not recommended. A newborn child does not receive it's Nefesh until it takes it's first breath, and the Neshamah doesn't come until the 30th day of life. A newly-conceived fetus is not a child, according to the Hebrew Scriptures!

Edited by GIDEON MAGE
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I thought it was, isn't that why we send cops to stop suicide attempts?

>ppsssst!< Suicide isn't against the law. Attempted suicides are taken to hospital, not jail. ;)

And you haven't answered my question:

How does a woman in Idaho, choosing an abortion affect YOU?

Edited by JMPD1
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