UK suspects in new claims of torture at Gitmo

[RedEyeJedi]

UK suspects in new claims of torture at Guantanamo

By Robert Verkaik, Legal Affairs Correspondent

Published: 21 September 2006

The extent of the torture and abuse that British residents held at Guantanamo Bay claim to have suffered is revealed for the first time in a series of recently declassified interviews between the detainees and their human rights lawyers.

Documents submitted to the American courts allege that one of the detainees was strapped to a chair by prison guards and beaten and tortured to the point of death.

Other British suspects are still being held in solitary confinement, four years after their capture, where they are subjected to extreme temperatures, sleep deprivation and the confiscation of the most basic necessities, including lavatory paper and blankets.

None has been charged with any crime.

Some of the most serious allegations of torture concern the treatment of Shaker Aamer, a Saudi national who until his arrest four years ago had been living in London with his wife and four children.

In June this year, Mr Aamer claims he was badly beaten and tortured because he failed to provide a retina scan and fingerprints to the camp authorities. He says he was strapped to a chair, fully restrained at the head, arms and legs.

The habeas corpus motion filed in the court of the District of Columbia states: "The MPs [military police] inflicted so much pain, Mr Aamer said he thought he was going to die. The MPs pressed on pressure points all over his body: his temples, just under his jawline, in the hollow beneath his ears. They choked him. They bent his nose so hard he thought it would break.

"They pinched his thighs and feet constantly. They gouged his eyes. They held his eyes open and shined a Maglite [torch] in them for minutes on end, generating intense heat. They bent his fingers until he screamed. When he screamed, they cut off his airway, then put a mask on him so he could not cry out."

Mr Aamer, who had been resident in Britain since 1996, was used as key negotiator on behalf of the prisoners during recent hunger strikes.

But when a settlement between the prisoners and the guards broke down last year he was sent to solitary confinement. This month he was visited by his lawyer from the human rights charity Reprieve. Mr Aamer told the lawyer that he had not seen the sun for 79 days and had had no meaningful contact with the outside world.

In a harrowing account of his torture he said: "At any moment, they can strip you naked. They will put your head in the toilet in the name of security. It is all about humiliation. They are trying to break me."

Bisher al-Rawi, another British resident captured by the Americans in Gambia after alleged collusion between the CIA and MI5 officers, is also being held in solitary confinement at another detention centre known as Camp V.

Mr al-Rawi has stopped co-operating with his interrogators because they are still seeking answers to the same questions they were asking when he was first arrested in 2002.

His resistance has cost him the few privileges he had and led to his interrogators using torture lasting for weeks. The most common form of torture he has been forced to endure is the use of extreme temperatures in the cells. During the day the guards let the temperatures reach 100 degrees and in the night take away his sheet and use the air conditioning system to create freezing conditions

Zachary Katznelson, the Reprieve lawyer who interviewed the men in Guantanamo, said the torture had been so severe that Mr Al Rawi had suffered wheezing and loss of consciousness.

The evidence relating to Mr al-Rawi is to be used to support an appeal already lodged at the High Court in London. Two other British residents, Omar Deghayes and Ahmed Errachidi, are also being held in Camp V.

Ahmed Belbacha and Abdennour Sameur are in Camp II. Jamil al-Banna is in Camp IV, the lowest security rated part of the prison. An eighth man, Binyam Mohamed, is due to appear before a military commission. All the men remain defiant and protest their innocence.

Reprieve, the British based human rights charity representing the men, says their detention is a gross breach of international law and an infringement of the Geneva Conventions.

Source

EDIT: Oops I pasted the whole article twice.

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:angry2:

'This is how the the rest of the world now sees us: the United States of Torture.' - Michael Rivero

Edited September 23, 2006 by RedEyeJedi

[supercar]

So RedEyeJedi you are concerned about people being tortured? The Muslim insurgents/terrorists in Iraq are torturing and murdering hundred of innocent Iraqis every month. Why not start a topic about that.

Oh yeah,it's only torture if the United States is 'accused' of it,not when Muslims are torturing other Muslims.

[RedEyeJedi]

So RedEyeJedi you are concerned about people being tortured? The Muslim insurgents/terrorists in Iraq are torturing and murdering hundred of innocent Iraqis every month. Why not start a topic about that.

Yes. Exactly. So what has this war acheived? Absolute chaos. Things are worse now than when Saddam was in power.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5368360.stm

Edited September 22, 2006 by RedEyeJedi

[supercar]

Yes. Exactly. So what has this war acheived? Absolute chaos. Things are worse now than when Saddam was in power.

What has this war achieved? No attacks inside the United States since 9/11.

This war isn't about making Iraqis safer. It's about making the United States safer. So this war has been a success for the United States.

One of the reasons the Muslim insurgents/terrorists are torturing and murdering their fellow Muslims is to try and make the United States look bad. What a sick,twisted strategy.

[RedEyeJedi]

What has this war achieved? No attacks inside the United States since 9/11.

This war isn't about making Iraqis safer. It's about making the United States safer. So this war has been a success for the United States.

One of the reasons the Muslim insurgents/terrorists are torturing and murdering their fellow Muslims is to try and make the United States look bad. What a sick,twisted strategy.

Something about what you said is definitely twisted.

Saying the war meant no attacks in America is trying to prove a negative. It's impossible. There would have probably been no attacks without the war.

I hope it is not the case, but it seems likely that there will be another attack on American interests either in the US or abroad. Probably before the elections in November. Opposition to the War Of Terror is growing and polls suggest the Neo-cons may lose control of the House and that may not be good for The Wars. Another terrorist attack would allow the Neo-cons to put into effect some of the executive orders Bush has signed allowing him to declare a State of Emergency, rule the US indefinitely; start another War, and keep the battle against Emmanuel Goldstein going.

Edit: .....and I don't think the United States need help to look bad.

Second Edit: I should stop saying the US - I mean the whole of the real 'Axis of Evil' (US, UK + Israel).

Edited September 22, 2006 by RedEyeJedi

[Briggles]

What has this war achieved? No attacks inside the United States since 9/11.

I'm not being funny but how many attacks took place inside the U.S before 9/11?

Cos i don't think there was that many, and how can you be so sure the war is the reason there has not yet been another attack? Cos i got to tell you, there's more chance of another attack because of the war than there would be with out the war.

We have been fighting a war on terror for years with the IRA, an putting soldiers in ireland didn't stop the attacks on us. in fact it seemed to strengthen there resolve and did wonders for there cause. in terms of recruitment and support. in fact if i'm not mistaken a large percentage of the U.S public supported the IRA seeing it as a romantic ideal an the IRA as freedom fighters.

Edited September 22, 2006 by Q-Ball

[Celumnaz]

Like... 2? Not counting domestic terrorists, cause we have em... weather underground... mafia... gangs... but if you count US soil bing like Embassys and attacks on Ships and Planes over international waters and stuff (Lockerbie etc...) then quite a few.

[Briggles]

Well if your counting embassys then supercars point of the war stopping attacks on american soil is further wrong. but still fair point. i had no idea if you had been the victims of terrorism before 9/11 or not.

Edited September 22, 2006 by Q-Ball

[__Kratos__]

They are trying to break me."

Interesting choice of words, I'd like to point out.

What need is there to break him if he has nothing to tell... He sure thinks he wasn't broken... So what then is he hiding?

Even then these tortures happened months ago when the high court was still out sipping it's tea so they were still defined as 'enemy combatants' which is a grey area in international law as they hold no nation, wear no uniform and have no soldier number.

Edited September 22, 2006 by __Kratos__

[RedEyeJedi]

I'm not being funny but how many attacks took place inside the U.S before 9/11?

Cos i don't think there was that many, and how can you be so sure the war is the reason there has not yet been another attack? Cos i got to tell you, there's more chance of another attack because of the war than there would be with out the war.

That's what I said. Well yours was more to the point.

Interesting choice of words, I'd like to point out.

What need is there to break him if he has nothing to tell... He sure thinks he wasn't broken... So what then is he hiding?

Break his spirit, break his character, break his resolve, break his sanity.....etc, etc Edited September 22, 2006 by RedEyeJedi

[Briggles]

Even then these tortures happened months ago when the high court was still out sipping it's tea so they were still defined as 'enemy combatants' which is a grey area in international law as they hold no nation, wear no uniform and have no soldier number.

Yeah i guess. An on top of that, one mans torture is others interrogation method. For example the papers over here where saying british citizens being held in Guantanamo were subject to torture in the forms of sleep deprivation, stress positions and loud music. non of which are illegal and in fact legitimate methods to "brake" someone.

I guess the british captives at least have something to answer for, its a bit suspect having a holiday in a war zone.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

What has this war achieved? No attacks inside the United States since 9/11.

This war isn't about making Iraqis safer. It's about making the United States safer. So this war has been a success for the United States.

supercar, if an attack happened tommorow, would that suddenly make the war in Iraq a failure in your eyes?

[AROCES]

Yes. Exactly. So what has this war acheived? Absolute chaos. Things are worse now than when Saddam was in power.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5368360.stm

Mass graves have been found and the Horror the two sons brough to the Iraqis, like just beating and killing people they don't like I guess was a lot better.

Edited September 22, 2006 by AROCES

[supercar]

supercar, if an attack happened tommorow, would that suddenly make the war in Iraq a failure in your eyes?

Nope. Not only have we prevented another attack,every scumbag terrorist who ever thought about attacking the United States has gone to Iraq instead. And guess what. We just happen to have 150,000 soldiers in Iraq. Each and every soldier has a gun. And knows how to use it.

[supercar]

how can you be so sure the war is the reason there has not yet been another attack? Cos i got to tell you, there's more chance of another attack because of the war than there would be with out the war.

'The other point I'd make in connection with the global war on terror is the fact that it has been nearly five years now and we haven't been hit again. Nobody can promise that we won't be hit. We know that organizations are still out there, that in addition to al Qaeda, there are al Qaeda wannabees. There have been attacks around the world since 9/11 in places like London and Madrid and Istanbul and Casablanca and Mombasa and Tunisia and Jakarta and Bali and many, many other places. But the fact of the matter is, we've been safe and secure here at home. That's not an accident. It didn't happen just because we got lucky.' - Vice President Dick Cheney,June 19,2006

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/20...0060619-10.html

'In the 5 years since 9/11, our military and our intelligence services

have thwarted dozens of attacks, large and small.' - Congressman Denny Hastert,September 13,2006

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/ge...cid=cr13se06-93

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Nope. Not only have we prevented another attack,every scumbag terrorist who ever thought about attacking the United States has gone to Iraq instead. And guess what. We just happen to have 150,000 soldiers in Iraq. Each and every soldier has a gun. And knows how to use it.

Yet that doesn't answer my question, you don't know if there aren't any plans for an attack underway in the US right now, one could conceivably happen tommorow, would that suddenly make the war in Iraq a failure in your eyes?

[supercar]

Yet that doesn't answer my question

Yes I answered your question:

Nope.

[Stellar]

Oh yeah,it's only torture if the United States is 'accused' of it,not when Muslims are torturing other Muslims.

The difference being, when the insurgents do it, people accept that it is torture... when the US does it, people like you turn a blind eye to it.

What has this war achieved? No attacks inside the United States since 9/11.

You've got to be kidding me. The war didnt do that.

It's about making the United States safer. So this war has been a success for the United States.

Except that the US has lost face, the world now doubts every single thing the US says, and many MORE people now hate the US.

[supercar]

the US has lost face

Nope.

the world now doubts every single thing the US says

Nope.

MORE people now hate the US.

Nope.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Yes I answered your question:

But wouldn't it invalidate your claim that the US is safer?

[Stellar]

Nope.

No? Where are all the stockpiles of WMDs Bush claimed? Whether they were there or not, they werent found, and people now think he lied. What happened for the support for the Iraq war? At one point it was 70%, now what is it at?

Nope.

Really? How come so many people are now questioning the reason behind Iraq? So many people now believe it was for oil. Many people now wont even trust the US when the US says Iran is developing nukes and is a danger to the world!

Nope.

Oh? Take a look around you. People dont regard the US as they did a few years back. Plenty of people think that the US is a bigger danger to the world.

[Celumnaz]

around the world I know that others know that it's the media telling people what they're supposed to think. I fully believe we'd be successfully done and out if it weren't for the media giving platform. To those *Around The World* that I talk to, we have not lost face at all, just the opposite. Just don't hear about it. Bush's poll numbers are pretty good lately and I don't hear about it.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

around the world I know that others know that it's the media telling people what they're supposed to think. I fully believe we'd be successfully done and out if it weren't for the media giving platform. To those *Around The World* that I talk to, we have not lost face at all, just the opposite. Just don't hear about it. Bush's poll numbers are pretty good lately and I don't hear about it.

So he's what now, 44% rating? that's still pretty bad percentage, in school that'd be an "F" Celumanz

[girty1600]

Sorry to interrupt the banter and semantical debate but I wanted to comment on the original article if I may...

This man, a Mr. Shaker Aamer, claims he was "badly beaten and tortured because he failed to provide a retina scan and fingerprints to the camp authorities". Sounds like the captures were attempting to obtain said prints/retina scan, Aamer refused to cooperate and was forced into a position for officials to take his prints. Much like a convict resisting arrest he was put through pain on his own will and choice because he didn't want to be identified and continued to struggle. Ever seen a violent drunk try to keep a cop from cuffing him/her; oh how they wiggle because they're on a mission to stay out of those cuffs. Sometimes they end up hurting themselves.

"The MPs [military police] inflicted so much pain, Mr Aamer said he thought he was going to die. The MPs pressed on pressure points all over his body: his temples, just under his jawline, in the hollow beneath his ears. They choked him. They bent his nose so hard he thought it would break.

Pressure points, when manipulated can hurt and incapacitate you. Falco taught me some basic moves for self defense after I was attacked this Summer. He demonstrated on me, it hurts. It hurts so bad you can't move and that's the whole point. The more you move the more it hurts. As far as the nose goes, I've broken my nose twice and it doesn't take much, just a slight bump from the wrong direction and *snap*. If they wanted to break his nose they would have.

Once again pressure points are used to keep a person from moving for instance to take finger prints. A Good Rule For Pressure Points: don't move, it will hurt less.

They held his eyes open and shined a Maglite [torch] in them for minutes on end, generating intense heat. They bent his fingers until he screamed. When he screamed, they cut off his airway, then put a mask on him so he could not cry out."

This would be the point where if I hadn't already submitted to the ink pad, I would then.

But when a settlement between the prisoners and the guards broke down last year he was sent to solitary confinement. This month he was visited by his lawyer from the human rights charity Reprieve. Mr Aamer told the lawyer that he had not seen the sun for 79 days and had had no meaningful contact with the outside world.

Welcome to prison.

In a harrowing <---- much overused gerund account of his torture he said: "At any moment, they can strip you naked. They will put your head in the toilet in the name of security. It is all about humiliation. They are trying to break me."

What are they trying to break, spirit? Give over information and fingerprints please.

I didn't know that prison was supposed to be a self-confidence work shop.

This sounds mean, I know. I can't have too many feelings of sympathy for these folks when they won't even submit to basic identification measures.

My opinion and take it as it is, leans toward the fact that these particular guys are reaching out to the world media to empower their cause but purposefully getting themselves hurt via non-cooperation.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Girty, big difference is when you are put in prison you are charged with a crime, these people are not, this is akin to police brutality, and without any form of due process