Where did Lucifer fall?

[The Redeemer]

This is one of the oldest Necros I've ever seen.

[Timothy]

I'm pretty sure if OP is still around, all he has to do is play Diablo III to get the answers he wants about where they fell.

[WoIverine]

I'm pretty sure if OP is still around, all he has to do is play Diablo III to get the answers he wants about where they fell.

I'm holding out for gamepad support.

[bassai26]

God created everything in this world but everything in this world is Satans property...dont get me wrong, let me explain... this theory is not originally mine- correct me if im wrong- you know this story in the bible that the devil tempted jesus 3 times, the third one the devil said everything you see i will give it to you etc...which means if you want fame, fortune and power...worship satan-not to mention to those who work hard and go to churches every sunday doing good deeds and found themselves filthy rich.

[Etu Malku]

God created everything in this world but everything in this world is Satans property...dont get me wrong, let me explain... this theory is not originally mine- correct me if im wrong- you know this story in the bible that the devil tempted jesus 3 times, the third one the devil said everything you see i will give it to you etc...which means if you want fame, fortune and power...worship satan-not to mention to those who work hard and go to churches every sunday doing good deeds and found themselves filthy rich.

Trust that I will correct you on everything that you are wrong about . . .

No, "God" did not create everything, much less anything . . . the entire universe is a Memeplex process that we (Mankind) have assigned divine meaning to.

No, Satan is a product of the Christian mind and therefore does not exist other than in the Christian mind . . . "Nothing" is Satan's property.

No, the Christian bible (the 'bible' you are referencing) is a book written by Mankind in order to propagate the Christian religion

Your final statement "if you want fame, fortune and power...worship satan-not to mention to those who work hard and go to churches every sunday doing good deeds and found themselves filthy rich." . . . is no where to be found in this bible, and is utterly incorrect, not to mention insulting to Satanists . . . the filthy rich are found to be also the Religious!

[AlwaysAskQuestions2013]

Dark Ninja,

Obviously you are very intelligent and know the context of the Bible. Lucifer did fall, and from the spiritual aspect and realm (remember most things were symbolic in the Bible) and again this is my personal belief, he fell from the "pedestal that ego had set him on"...have you heard the phrase "pride goes before the fall? in this case is a clear cut example of what happens when evil tries to overcome good.

Those who are non-believers or atheists and (I RESPECT AND SEND WARM ENERGY TO YOU ALL IN THAT CATEGORY), cannot understand the spiritual symbolism associated within the context of the Bible. Most try to interpret it literally and miss the entire point.

As to the exact location where he fell/if it is an actual place and not just symbolic, why would you want to go there? I have been a demonologist and exorcist for a few years, (DEFINITELY NOT BY CHOICE OR CURIOSITY. THE FIRST TIME I FACED EVIL, I WAS THRUST INTO A LIFE AND DEATH SITUATION, ( AND THROUGH THE AUTHORITY OF CHRIST ALONE) I WAS ABLE TO CAST OUT DEMONIC ENTITIES FROM WITHIN A CERTAIN INDIVIDUAL WHO WAS EX-MILITARY) and I can PROMISE YOU that first of all NO PERSON THAT IS MENTALLY SANE WOULD WANT TO SEE AND WITNESS WHAT I HAVE, because the evil spiritual realm is very real. And once you have come face to face with it, your reality as you once knew is severely destroyed....you are never the same again emotionally nor will you ever look at life the same. Yes Lucifer is real, was real, and did fall...and I am sending prayers and warmth your way that for whatever reason this interests you...you will leave it alone. GOOD LUCK!

[Etu Malku]

Those who are non-believers or atheists and (I RESPECT AND SEND WARM ENERGY TO YOU ALL IN THAT CATEGORY), cannot understand the spiritual symbolism associated within the context of the Bible. Most try to interpret it literally and miss the entire point.

Why would that be? I am pretty clear on the symbolism contained in the christian bible.

I have been a demonologist and exorcist for a few years,

. . . Oh now it's getting good!!!

(DEFINITELY NOT BY CHOICE OR CURIOSITY. THE FIRST TIME I FACED EVIL, I WAS THRUST INTO A LIFE AND DEATH SITUATION, ( AND THROUGH THE AUTHORITY OF CHRIST ALONE) I WAS ABLE TO CAST OUT DEMONIC ENTITIES FROM WITHIN A CERTAIN INDIVIDUAL WHO WAS EX-MILITARY) and I can PROMISE YOU that first of all NO PERSON THAT IS MENTALLY SANE WOULD WANT TO SEE AND WITNESS WHAT I HAVE, because the evil spiritual realm is very real.

What a load of b******s, there is absolutely no such thing as demons, angels, devils, or gods materializing into the objective universe (material plane). They are archetypal structures set deep within our unconsciousness, they are brought into conscious awareness through Symbology.

]Yes Lucifer is real, was real, and did fall...and I am sending prayers and warmth your way that for whatever reason this interests you...you will leave it alone. GOOD LUCK![/b]

I'm a Luciferian and I even admit there is no such thing as Lucifer the Fallen Angel.

You must truly jest with all of this nonsense?

[markprice]

What a load of b******s, there is absolutely no such thing as demons, angels, devils, or gods materializing into the objective universe (material plane). They are archetypal structures set deep within our unconsciousness, they are brought into conscious awareness through Symbology.

Then in your opinion only ghosts can materialize? and would it be considered materialization if more than one person saw the manifestation. Yeah, I don't think you know just how real the unconscious can become. Think of it like That's Impossible! until it happens. That's the beauty of the paranormal.

[Etu Malku]

Then in your opinion only ghosts can materialize? and would it be considered materialization if more than one person saw the manifestation. Yeah, I don't think you know just how real the unconscious can become. Think of it like That's Impossible! until it happens. That's the beauty of the paranormal.

I'm more apt to believe that a ghost/apparition is left over/residual energy of the subtle body, like the Egyptian Ka, therefore it can indeed hang around a bit or become attached to something material again.

I would be amazed if two people saw the same hallucination exactly and at the same time, like during a group ritual, it's just not going to happen.

I'm fairly well read on the unconscious mind, I know what can and cannot take place, been a ritualist for decades and have pushed the mental envelope on myself and others to extremes at times. Whereas spectacular results were had now and then the experiences always remained a projection of the unconsciousness into the realm of the conscious observer, never into the actual physical world.

In other words, if someone is telling you they can summon Beelzebub into a circle where everyone can see him . . . they are lying to you.

[LostSouls7]

So then how can poltergeist activity be explained?

when a whole family sees doors and things moving on their own??

So you're saying demons gods.. spirits are just in the mind??

This could be those monks have the supernatural power to move big bricks across a table without touching them...

and break bricks with their bare fists.

They say the energy comes from within the Chi....

So what is the energy the magicians use?

Yeah I see some magicians says it's just your own will energy doing the magical stuff paranormal.

Then some say they have actual pacts with demons and spirits to get the power.

So you're telling me the one who think they have a pact with a spirit..

just have the pact in their own mind?

[markprice]

I'm more apt to believe that a ghost/apparition is left over/residual energy of the subtle body, like the Egyptian Ka, therefore it can indeed hang around a bit or become attached to something material again.

I would be amazed if two people saw the same hallucination exactly and at the same time, like during a group ritual, it's just not going to happen.

I'm fairly well read on the unconscious mind, I know what can and cannot take place, been a ritualist for decades and have pushed the mental envelope on myself and others to extremes at times. Whereas spectacular results were had now and then the experiences always remained a projection of the unconsciousness into the realm of the conscious observer, never into the actual physical world.

How about a bunch of kids who see the same apparition then run like hell? How about watching your dog react to an entity you noticed first? That kind of thing happens all the time, when something becomes objective.

So then how can poltergeist activity be explained?

when a whole family sees doors and things moving on their own??...

There are a lot of stories like that. I just read one where nobody was buying the paranormal activity then a tricycle peddles over and stops with no rider on it. That ended the skepticism in that house.

[Etu Malku]

So then how can poltergeist activity be explained?

when a whole family sees doors and things moving on their own??{/quote] Uhmmm . . . if you actually do the research you'll find that "no two people" saw the same thing . . . it's called mass hysteria.

So you're saying demons gods.. spirits are just in the mind??

Read carefully . . . they are Archetypes.

This could be those monks have the supernatural power to move big bricks across a table without touching them...

and break bricks with their bare fists.

They say the energy comes from within the Chi....

More nonesense . . . nobody can do that.

So what is the energy the magicians use?

Are asking about Magic or Magick? Both are different than one another, Magic is about messin' with your perception of things within the human physical limitations . . . Illusion/Deception.

Magick is about creating a change Within and then through your projection of Will, creating change outside.

Then some say they have actual pacts with demons and spirits to get the power.

they are fibbing

So you're telling me the one who think they have a pact with a spirit..

just have the pact in their own mind?

Now you're catching on!!

How about a bunch of kids who see the same apparition then run like hell? How about watching your dog react to an entity you noticed first? That kind of thing happens all the time, when something becomes objective.

There are a lot of stories like that. I just read one where nobody was buying the paranormal activity then a tricycle peddles over and stops with no rider on it. That ended the skepticism in that house.

Nonsense . . . all of them can be explained rationally. There are many many "stories", yet no evidence of anything as such.

[markprice]

Nonsense . . . all of them can be explained rationally. There are many many "stories", yet no evidence of anything as such.

Okay, explain the ghostriding tricycle seen by half a dozen people, most of which were skeptical to a fault, then all totally convinced.

Actually, what it all boils down to is convincing personal experience that puts everything in a different perspective, then after that when you hear a good ghost story you already know it is possible, as opposed to being skeptical of everything based on the belief that any personal experience is a lie or delusional nonsense. That's why I said it is impossible until it happens and that changes everything, and this type of thing happens all the time. Everyone is lying to you...that's delusional IMO.

[Etu Malku]

Okay, explain the ghostriding tricycle seen by half a dozen people, most of which were skeptical to a fault, then all totally convinced.

Wouldn't I need a little more information in order to understand the situation?

Actually, what it all boils down to is convincing personal experience that puts everything in a different perspective, then after that when you hear a good ghost story you already know it is possible, as opposed to being skeptical of everything based on the belief that any personal experience is a lie or delusional nonsense. That's why I said it is impossible until it happens and that changes everything, and this type of thing happens all the time. Everyone is lying to you...that's delusional IMO.

Lying is one thing, that's intentional . . . not understanding what you believe you are experiencing is another thing altogether.

After 52 years living on this earth, hundreds of rituals performed and participated in, countless paranormal journey's . . . I can safely conclude that it is quite possible that residual energy or energy for that matter can cause & effect things in the physical universe. I have also concluded that gods, devils, angels, demons, etc. are archetypal images embedded in our unconsciousness, they are brought to conscious awareness by Symbology. They do not and cannot materialize into the physical universe, they are structures of the subjective universe/mind.

[markprice]

...because the evil spiritual realm is very real. And once you have come face to face with it, your reality as you once knew is severely destroyed....you are never the same again emotionally nor will you ever look at life the same. GOOD LUCK!

Right, and I have a question: you signed up here to basically just say that?

Wouldn't I need a little more information in order to understand the situation?

Normally you would, but there were several skeptical witnesses there to rule out all other possibilities for you. Or, you might enjoy the book I got that from:

A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to Heaven: (Or, How I Made Peace with the Paranormal and Stigmatized Zealots and Cynics in the Process): Corey Taylor: 9780306821646: Amazon.com: Books don't let the title fool you, he's an atheist.

Lying is one thing, that's intentional . . . not understanding what you believe you are experiencing is another thing altogether.

Alright, so they are not lying to you, but they don't quite know what happened and so they try to explain; the result is ghosts.

After 52 years living on this earth, hundreds of rituals performed and participated in, countless paranormal journey's . . . I can safely conclude that it is quite possible that residual energy or energy for that matter can cause & effect things in the physical universe. I have also concluded that gods, devils, angels, demons, etc. are archetypal images embedded in our unconsciousness, they are brought to conscious awareness by Symbology. They do not and cannot materialize into the physical universe, they are structures of the subjective universe/mind.

That would explain the energy, but not the intelligence attached to it. A demon is a way of saying extremely bad/evil energy with independent intelligence. I've seen you mention Jung so I'll type the following:

Jung describes his own encounter with a ghost in England in 1920. He spent several weekends in a friend's recently rented country house. During the nights he experienced various increasingly violent ghostly phenomena like knockings, evil smells, sounds of rustling and dripping. They aroused in him a feeling of suffocation and a sensation of growing rigidity, and culminated in the apparition, or hallucination, of a solid looking half of a woman's head lying on a pillow about sixteen inches away from his own. Its one eye was wide open and staring at him. The head vanished when Jung lit a candle.

That's a good ghost story. Jung is good at observing and recording, as is the author mentioned above. I have a step dad who lost his mind after seeing several apparitions etc. and I will always credit the tragedy to an atheist so shocked into denial that his brain cracked. I was there as he went through it all, but these days doctors just say dementia because that's the result--dementia which clearly did not exist at the time. So it becomes another one of those you had to be there events while in hindsight people without a clue what was going on at the time offer their own explanations to support a case of crippling denial. Point is that it's not so much how an experience is interpreted but the actual impact of the experience, then when the experiences are multiple you can begin to see how they are intelligently linked revealing a usually malevolent motive. (demonology 101)