Science shouldn't fear ghosts

[UM-Bot]

'Either I or the scientist is a fool with our opposing views of probability,' William James wrote. The risk of appearing foolish, he believed, was the least of the dangers. There also was the risk of failing to investigate the world in all its dimensions, or making it appear smaller and less interesting than it really is.

A hundred years ago, one of the most ambitious of research projects was launched, a study that linked scholars and mediums on three continents.

View: Full Article | Source: Twin Cities

[:PsYKoTiC:BeHAvIoR:]

Most scientists don't fear ghosts, spirits, or demons because they plainly don't believe they exist. Just because they can't explain a supernatural phenomenon, doesn't means it's not real. Not all superstitions are figments of imagination either.

It's funny how most scientists will accept the theory of the Universe being created by an astronomical explosion, caused from a reaction of atoms and molecules that was "always there" in the void, yet, can't believe our conscience/soul can go beyond our body.

[ohio tsunami]

It's funny how most scientists will accept the theory of the Universe being created by an astronomical explosion, caused from a reaction of atoms and molecules that was "always there" in the void, yet, can't believe our conscience/soul can go beyond our body.

Well put.

[ShaunZero]

Yeah, you nailed it. They believe in a "dead" Universe. Mostly believe life has no meaning, when we die we're finished, and everything is natural and pointless. The very thought of us being something "special" scares the hell out of them.

I see no logical reason why any person should completely ignore all of the phenomenom that occur which helps support the idea of an afterlife. Most pretend to look into it, then just shrug it off and find half ass explainations.

Edited September 29, 2006 by Zero of Deism

[Raptor]

Most scientists don't fear ghosts, spirits, or demons because they plainly don't believe they exist. Just because they can't explain a supernatural phenomenon, doesn't means it's not real. Not all superstitions are figments of imagination either.

Can't explain what? What is there to suggest that ghosts are real, which science can't explain?

[ShaunZero]

Can't explain what? What is there to suggest that ghosts are real, which science can't explain?

Science has NEVER given a good explaination as to alot of the "ghost" phenomena that occurs. All we get is the same comment over and over from skeptics "Halucinations". But that explaination is unverifiable. Especially when 2 people see the same ghost at the same time.

My girlfriend's father also had a phone call from his dad 2 hours after he died. But let me guess... "Grief caused halucination". Well, if that makes you feel better, believe yourself. I personally think it's too farfetched to believe that so many people can halucinate the same exact way, all over the world. Not to mention I don't find it very likely to be able to halucinate so vividly and easily.

Edited September 29, 2006 by Zero of Deism

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

So believing in a ghost is easier than believing in a halucination.

Wow. You will buy anything.

[Raptor]

Science has NEVER given a good explaination as to alot of the "ghost" phenomena that occurs. All we get is the same comment over and over from skeptics "Halucinations". But that explaination is unverifiable. Especially when 2 people see the same ghost at the same time.

My girlfriend's father also had a phone call from his dad 2 hours after he died. But let me guess... "Grief caused halucination". Well, if that makes you feel better, believe yourself. I personally think it's too farfetched to believe that so many people can halucinate the same exact way, all over the world. Not to mention I don't find it very likely to be able to halucinate so vividly and easily.

What ghost phenomena?

Eyewitness accounts?

[Annointer]

Scientists are jokes when it comes to debunking ghosts.

[Raptor]

Scientists are jokes when it comes to debunking ghosts.

Yes, we should start training people from a young age on how to debunk nothing. That way in the future the entire scientific community might not be such a laughing stock.

[Trolololol]

Scientists are jokes when it comes to debunking ghosts.

Well, not really. Who's to say that they're all not halluinations? I'm sure a great deal are either made up, halucinations, or have some logical explanation. There are, however, a great deal that sceintists cannot explain and that's where I usually hear the half-assed explanations.

[Cebrakon]

Yeah, you nailed it. They believe in a "dead" Universe. Mostly believe life has no meaning, when we die we're finished, and everything is natural and pointless. The very thought of us being something "special" scares the hell out of them.

I see no logical reason why any person should completely ignore all of the phenomenom that occur which helps support the idea of an afterlife. Most pretend to look into it, then just shrug it off and find half ass explainations.

:angry2: Exactly! Very well put!

~~Cebrakon

[RollingThunder06]

Would be nice to have it looked into. Paranormal events affect many people. Just think if it was really proven to be physical, drug companies would have a field day! I do believe in the paranormal. Even if they did get involve, chances are they would mess it somehow.

[ShaunZero]

So believing in a ghost is easier than believing in a halucination.

Wow. You will buy anything.

Given the circumstances, amount of people who see the same thing, how obvious it is when you know you're not tired, drunk, or drugged up, yet experience something right in front of your face which fits the description of what many, many, many other people have seen, you'd have to be gullible to buy into the halucination thing. Hell, we might as well say that everytime we look up and see an airplane we're halucinating. Cynics must really think the world is in an halucinating frenzy, they use that same excuse for UFOs sometimes as well. And almost every other paranormal phenomenom.

Given those circumstances, I think you'd have to be extremely gullible to beleive that what you saw was an Halucination. How will we ever know if people are truly seeing ghosts if all we do is shrug it off as an halucination and forget about it? I won't stand for that.

And personally, I don't see what's so hard about believing in Ghosts? I don't see it as farfetched in the first place. I perosnally see more evidence to support a metaphysical consciousness than I do for a physical one.

Edited September 30, 2006 by Zero of Deism

[CandyBlo0d]

Given those circumstances, I think you'd have to be extremely gullible to beleive that what you saw was an Halucination. How will we ever know if people are truly seeing ghosts if all we do is shrug it off as an halucination and forget about it? I won't stand for that.

And personally, I don't see what's so hard about believing in Ghosts? I don't see it as farfetched in the first place. I perosnally see more evidence to support a metaphysical consciousness than I do for a physical one.

well put! the physical realm are the doorways to the metaphysical and so many other planes of existence. we cant go around keeping our eyes closed to the obvious right in our face.

[ShaunZero]

well put! the physical realm are the doorways to the metaphysical and so many other planes of existence. we cant go around keeping our eyes closed to the obvious right in our face.

Well, I'm not saying that the metaphysical world is obviously in our faces, but I will say that ghosts are. Whatever they are, I think it's pretty obvious they exist. What are they? Well, I don't truly know, but I'd say it what it appears to be; the human spirit.

[Raptor]

Given the circumstances, amount of people who see the same thing, how obvious it is when you know you're not tired, drunk, or drugged up, yet experience something right in front of your face which fits the description of what many, many, many other people have seen, you'd have to be gullible to buy into the halucination thing. Hell, we might as well say that everytime we look up and see an airplane we're halucinating. Cynics must really think the world is in an halucinating frenzy, they use that same excuse for UFOs sometimes as well. And almost every other paranormal phenomenom.

Given those circumstances, I think you'd have to be extremely gullible to beleive that what you saw was an Halucination. How will we ever know if people are truly seeing ghosts if all we do is shrug it off as an halucination and forget about it? I won't stand for that.

And personally,

Pareidolia, misidentification, self-dillusion, outright lying and hallucinations can easily explain all sightings; (and I know for certain that many, many people do lie about seeing paranormal things, whatever the reason may be).

I live right near to Hampton Court Palace, where there some fairly famous 'ghost' footage came from (Click to see). In different parts of this palace there are 'haunted' by many different ghosts who lived their before. One of the most popular would probably be that of Catherine Howard, who's ghost could be heard screaming, and the temperature would suddenly drop afterwards. Many people I know fully believed that they had encountered a ghost.

Later a team of people did some research and found out that the sound and temperature drop was caused by an old passage/vent or something, when they blocked this, all of the sightings stopped, and no one has seen the ghost since. If hundreds of people were misidentifying the draft of air, why is it so hard to believe that many more sightings can't be explained by that, aswell as the other explanations I listed?

I don't see what's so hard about believing in Ghosts?

There is no evidence.

I don't see it as farfetched in the first place. I perosnally see more evidence to support a metaphysical consciousness than I do for a physical one.

Such as?

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

Given the circumstances, amount of people who see the same thing, how obvious it is when you know you're not tired, drunk, or drugged up, yet experience something right in front of your face which fits the description of what many, many, many other people have seen, you'd have to be gullible to buy into the halucination thing. Hell, we might as well say that everytime we look up and see an airplane we're halucinating. Cynics must really think the world is in an halucinating frenzy, they use that same excuse for UFOs sometimes as well. And almost every other paranormal phenomenom.

Given those circumstances, I think you'd have to be extremely gullible to beleive that what you saw was an Halucination. How will we ever know if people are truly seeing ghosts if all we do is shrug it off as an halucination and forget about it? I won't stand for that.

And personally, I don't see what's so hard about believing in Ghosts? I don't see it as farfetched in the first place. I perosnally see more evidence to support a metaphysical consciousness than I do for a physical one.

How you could ever claim to be a skepitc is beyond me. You are a believer of the worst kind. You believe anythinng without any proof.

[ShaunZero]

Pareidolia, misidentification, self-dillusion, outright lying and hallucinations can easily explain all sightings;

Of course some people hallucinate. The ones on drugs and with medical problems! That's just common sense. That does not however, even come close to explaining the actual phenomenom.

How you could ever claim to be a skepitc is beyond me. You are a believer of the worst kind. You believe anythinng without any proof. no.gif

You are a cynic, not a skeptic. No true skeptic would brush off this phenomenom as you have. You stunt a growth in knowledge of the unknown. You do not allow new knowledge to be obtained about this phenomenom, because you completely ignore it.

There is no evidence.

As if there could be. I guess we could just catch a spirit in a bottle and study it in a lab via physical means, when the thing itself isn't even physical! Hah, laughable. What would you need as evidence in your opinion? I've experienced things, and I know people who have. I know that means nothing to scientists. You know why though? Because it can't be studied, not because it is untrue! But, none of the people close to me who've experienced these things have ever had any other halucinations in their life, so there's no reason to believe that just because "ghosts aren't suppose to exist!" I should believe they halucinated. Nor have I.

I really think you throw your common sense down the drain, and actually think that you're using logic.

Turn on some Ghost Hunters. Their show is assume. They look at it all the same way as me. If you find a normal explanation for "cold spots" or "eery noises" then it's not a ghost. There's no reason to jump to conclusions. So, when you SEE a ghost, right in front of you, clear as day, it's a bit hard to listen to those skeptic saying "Believe me! It was an hallucination, I'm telling you! You're crazy!".

And about your comment "You believe in anything without proof". No, I don't.

1. I don't believe in God - I had no experiences to prove anything to me, or other people.

2. I don't believe in the loch ness monster. - Almost every first hand account is an account in which they saw it from FAR.

3. I don't believe in the moth man. - Rarely ever hear of people seeing it.

4. I don't believe in the chupacabra. - Most sightings are at night, and can easily be mistaken for a chupacabra, when it's actually a dog or cat.

5. I'm not sure if I believe in life after death. - I see much evidence to support it, just not enough to know for sure. I usually hate speaking in absolutes and saying that I KNOW something exists.

When it comes to ghosts, I know exactly why I beleive in them, and there's no way I'm going to change that because a few skeptics have not experinenced anything, or take first hand accounts and consider them 0% relevance.

Edited September 30, 2006 by Zero of Deism

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

You are a cynic, not a skeptic. No true skeptic would brush off this phenomenom as you have. You stunt a growth in knowledge of the unknown. You do not allow new knowledge to be obtained about this phenomenom, because you completely ignore it.

I really think you throw your common sense down the drain, and actually think that you're using logic.

Turn on some Ghost Hunters. Their show is awsome. They look at it all the same way as me. If you find a normal explaination for "cold spots" or "eery noises" then it's not a ghost. There's no reason to jump to conclusions. So, when you SEE a ghost, right in front of you, clear as day, it's a bit hard to listen to those skeptic saying "Believe me! It was an halucination, I'm telling you! You're crazy!".

Ghost Hunters.Woooo. Your basis for believing in ghosts.LMAO.

Call me whatever. I know how to apply logic to determine if something is real. Scientific method. Wow. You are not any kind of skeptic.I imagine that has to do with your age. You believe anything. As you grow up. Life experience will show you the way.

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

And about your comment "You believe in anything without proof". No, I don't.

1. I don't believe in God - I had no experiences to prove anything to me, or other people.

2. I don't believe in the loch ness monster. - Almost every first hand account is an account in which they saw it from FAR.

3. I don't believe in the moth man. - Rarely ever hear of people seeing it.

4. I don't believe in the chupacabra. - Most sightings are at night, and can easily be mistaken for a chupacabra, when it's actually a dog or cat.

5. I'm not sure if I believe in life after death. - I see much evidence to support it, just not enough to know for sure. I usually hate speaking in absolutes and saying that I KNOW something exists.

When it comes to ghosts, I know exactly why I beleive in them, and there's no way I'm going to change that because a few skeptics have not experinenced anything, or take first hand accounts and consider them 0% relevance.

You still use faith. Believing in ghosts requires just as much faith as believing in god.

Holler if you hear me.

[ShaunZero]

Ghost Hunters.Woooo. Your basis for believing in ghosts.LMAO.

Call me whatever. I know how to apply logic to determine if something is real. Scientific method. Wow. You are not any kind of skeptic.I imagine that has to do with your age. You believe anything. As you grow up. Life experience will show you the way.

Life experience has shown me the way. My age? Well, you're one to talk. You're acting like you are about 13 years old. Laughing at my opinion because it differs from yours. I hope you're not over the age of 23, because is living for that long has yet to open your mind, you're in for serious trouble.

Do you think it's logical to think that such a wide spread phenomenom is all a mass halucination? Do you know how many people experience this phenomenom every year? And I'm not talking about those young kids, or "ghost fanatics". I'm talking everyday average people who aren't even into all of the "unexplained".

You give me one good reason to believe that all of these people would halucinate the same exact way, and sometimes even at the same time, seeing the same thing, and I'll accept your opinion and may even convert!

You still use faith. Believing in ghosts requires just as much faith as believing in god.

LOL!!!!!!! Now that one is funny. What I see as evidence, you may not. Get over it. I don't take anything on faith. If I see something that I believe to be evidence, I will definitley give that phenomenom some credability.

Edited September 30, 2006 by Zero of Deism

[ShaunZero]

Also, you're playing with words. I not once said that I use Ghost Hunters as a basis for belief in Ghosts. Don't twist what I say. If you can't find something useful to say without twisting my words, move on.

You know, I can argue that when you look up, and see an airplane flying over your head, you are halucinating. That's basically the same logic that cynics use to explain away ghosts. And how can you even scientifically verify that all these people are halucinating? You can't! So you actually don't use the scienfitic method.

If your explaination can be verified and proven, then your explaintion WOULD explain away the idea of ghosts.

And if you could duplicate the MASSIVE amount of halucinations in a lab, I'll believe you. You'll need to get everyone to halucinate the same exact thing though. Without guiding what it is they experience during this halucination.

Oh, and one more thing. If it's all juts an halucination, why is it that the only "odd" thing that happens, is usually a "ghost figure" that they see? Why don't they also see monkeys running around, or colorful rainbows with pots on the other side?

Explain this to me in a scientific way:

My girlfriend's dad got a phone call from his father, 2 hours AFTER he died.

If your answer is "Halucination", I'll ask you: How do you know?

Do you base that epxlaination off of the assumption that it's not suppose to actually happen in real life?

Edited September 30, 2006 by Zero of Deism

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

Life experience has shown me the one. My age? Well, you're one to talk. You're acting like you are about 13 years old. Laughing at my opinion because it differs from yours. I hope you're not over the age of 23, because is living for that long has yet to open your mind, you're in for serious trouble.

Do you think it's logical to think that such a wide spread phenomenom is all a mass halucination? Do you know how many people experience this phenomenom every year? And I'm not talking about those young kids, or "ghost fanatics". I'm talking everyday average people who aren't even into all of the "unexplained".

You give me one good reason to believe that all of these people would halucinate the same exact way, and sometimes even at the same time, seeing the same thing, and I'll accept your opinion and may even convert!

LOL!!!!!!! Now that one is funny. What I see as evidence, you may not. Get over it. I don't take anything on faith. If I see something that I believe to be evidence, I will definitley give that phenomenom some credability.

I am 34 with 2 kids. I am very grounded. I support a family. I don't just go to school.

Mental illness effects a huge portion of the population. Halucinations can fall into that. People lie. Alot. In fact many people get off on hoaxing others.

Now, I guess we must agree to disagree. Good luck to you.

I can respect your opinion if you respect mine. Though you do seem a little angry.

[ShaunZero]

I am 34 with 2 kids. I am very grounded. I support a family. I don't just go to school.

Mental illness effects a huge portion of the population. Halucinations can fall into that. People lie. Alot. In fact many people get off on hoaxing others.

Now, I guess we must agree to disagree. Good luck to you.

I can respect your opinion if you respect mine. Though you do seem a little angry.

I'm not angry, I'm a little upset however, how you treated my opinion like crap at first.

And let me point out one thing: You're right. Alot of people lie, and alot of people want fame. But that can go for anything. People lie about many things to become famous. People lie about REAL things, people halucinate about REAL things. That doesn't really change much. And as for a hoaxer: That's why we have photographic analysis and the like.

Edited September 30, 2006 by Zero of Deism