Across Europe, Worries on Islam Spread to

[Birmingham]

If I was a Muslim, I would be worried. When the center becomes unhappy, that is when you start to worry. After all most voters concider themself as part of the center politicly. And in this case one of two things will happen. First the center will move to the right. Or the center itself becomes more rightist. Either is not a good situation for the many Muslims in Europe.

Take France for example, if the center becomes too unhappy, then it becomes permisable to vote for the farther right partys, without feeling that you are an extreamist. Then you can have a very serious change to the political landscape.

In responce to the comment on the Little Italys and Chinatowns. Yes they exist. But make up a small number of that ethnic groups population in a major city. They may have been born in Little Italy, but now they live in the suburbs. Along with people who were previously living in other ethnic areas. Because they assimilated and became part of the whole. So now only 20% of the Italian population lives in Little Italy or Italian neighborhoods.

[Roj47]

We are in the beginning stage of WWIII

This beginning of WW III bores me. When was it first mentioned.... 1960s with USA v Russia. Was there concern about Cuba v USA starting WW III.

[Roj47]

I also think the bloody PC brigade have alot to blame for it. Even right now as I write this post I don't feel comfortable writing about this, but I'm going to put foward my opinion anyway.

It's like British culture has been slowly dampned by PC in order to not offend muslims. I think we've been so accommodating that we've became blinded, and I think something has to be done now to reclaim the balance, because we are losing our culture and identity.

The PC brigade have created a culture where it's not really ok to say what you want openly about the subject, they have gone over the top and it's all back firing, rather than 'liberating and intergrating' it has become controlling which people resent on both sides.

I'm glad that our gov is finally putting a foot down and starting to voice about this. It's about bloody time.

I agree with you whole-heartedly. Don't forget that during the recent World Cup it was requested to not fly the English flag for fear of offending minorities and appearing to support the fanatics.

We are not allowed to mention anything deemed racist, whether blackboard, black magic (as in the term for medieval witchcraft) etc..., because it could offend.

God forbid if something were ever to come into the curriculum at schools whereby it refers to Muslims in holy wars or losing. That will offend too.

Whether or not the Government do something, people will. Voting in the BNP in larger numbers than ever before is the start of the stance.

For an extremist view I remember (no link) talk that England could be a Muslim state within 100 years. Maybe over the top, but you do wonder when the firsr Muslim party wins a council.

[Lord Umbarger]

If they are so happy with islam that they haft to try and spread it to Europe, why didn't they just stay where they were? You know, those islamic nations?

Is it because they are seeking a better life? Well, why are they trying to spread a way of life in Europe when it failed so miserably in thier homeland that they had to flee it for a better life? Do you see where I'm going with this? If it didn't work there where everybody went along with it, what makes them think that it will work somewhere else, where the people don't even want it?

I have no problem with the guy up the street who is a muslim. He doesn't try to convert me or blow up my cat or anything but, he also realizes that this is not Saudi Arabia. And I think that he's glad about that.

[Roj47]

If they are so happy with islam that they haft to try and spread it to Europe, why didn't they just stay where they were? You know, those islamic nations?

Is it because they are seeking a better life? Well, why are they trying to spread a way of life in Europe when it failed so miserably in thier homeland that they had to flee it for a better life? Do you see where I'm going with this? If it didn't work there where everybody went along with it, what makes them think that it will work somewhere else, where the people don't even want it?

I have no problem with the guy up the street who is a muslim. He doesn't try to convert me or blow up my cat or anything but, he also realizes that this is not Saudi Arabia. And I think that he's glad about that.

You do not get a free council house for your family and benefits to support them while you spread the word in your own country.

[Lord Umbarger]

Good point, Europe is paying for it's own undermining through all of it's social/welfare programs. That's why the citizens who deserve them can't get them.

Sort of like in the United States, we give free medical care to illegal immegrants and then have turn away our own citizens because ther are not enough beds! It happens all the time at the hospital where my wife works.

[Iblis]

If they are so happy with islam that they haft to try and spread it to Europe, why didn't they just stay where they were? You know, those islamic nations?

Well it's not everybody that had the choise of staying in their "islamic nation". Im saying this because me and many other muslims from Bosnia, were threatend with death if we didn't leave our home, by the serbs who are christians.

I think that people are focusing to much on what muslims are doing wrong, and by that they are thinking that all muslims are terrorist.

.But what about the places where it's the other way around? Like Bosnia, Kosovo, Tjetjenia?I live in Denmark now and some people are still thinking that muslims are those crazy wackos that hate all christians and want's to make jihad on them. Trust me. I hate those fanaticals muslims as much as you, and im hoping that all other "modern muslims" stand up and say that they aren't like them.

[odas]

Well it's not everybody that had the choise of staying in their "islamic nation". Im saying this because me and many other muslims from Bosnia, were threatend with death if we didn't leave our home, by the serbs who are christians.

I think that people are focusing to much on what muslims are doing wrong, and by that they are thinking that all muslims are terrorist.

.But what about the places where it's the other way around? Like Bosnia, Kosovo, Tjetjenia?I live in Denmark now and some people are still thinking that muslims are those crazy wackos that hate all christians and want's to make jihad on them. Trust me. I hate those fanaticals muslims as much as you, and im hoping that all other "modern muslims" stand up and say that they aren't like them.

Hi Bosanac.

I am a Bosnian-Canadian, and as you said mostly for the same reason ( serbian opression) I live somewhere else other in my home ( which is even now Serbian occpied).

But, save your breath on blaming the serbs on this forums. Usualy people are on their side.

Mostly because they do not know about the cause of the war.

We share the same views on Islam, obviously, we are bosnians - born and bred europian moslems, but , again, this does not matter to many members of this forum because for them a moslem is a sicko, no metter who or where from.

Take a look on some other posts about the simmilar topic and you will see.

Anyway I am glad to have another moderate moslem so we can back each other up, I guess.

[Iblis]

Hi Bosanac.

I am a Bosnian-Canadian, and as you said mostly for the same reason ( serbian opression) I live somewhere else other in my home ( which is even now Serbian occpied).

But, save your breath on blaming the serbs on this forums. Usualy people are on their side.

Mostly because they do not know about the cause of the war.

We share the same views on Islam, obviously, we are bosnians - born and bred europian moslems, but , again, this does not matter to many members of this forum because for them a moslem is a sicko, no metter who or where from.

Take a look on some other posts about the simmilar topic and you will see.

Anyway I am glad to have another moderate moslem so we can back each other up, I guess.

Cao Odas.

i am sorry to hear about your home, and that it's still occupied by serbs. We got our back a couple of years ago in very, very bad shape. But we managde to fix the most critical parts and now it looks just like befor the war, but unfortunatly it is located in Republica srbska, and still there is a lot of hate against the bosnian muslims, and it is sad to se the serb family's teaching their children to hate bosnian muslim and bosnian - croats.

But back to the topic. I would like to see the sceptics that kept saying that islam could't function with modern society. I would like them to se how well muslims lived together with christians in ex-yugoslavia. I think that Turkey is also about to enter a age where they will "modernise" Islam, and i belive they will do this because they want to enter the Europian Union. And by that i hope there will be less fanatics, and i hope other muslim nations will follow Turkeys example.

Yes i have read some other post obout this issue and yes i see that some still belive that all muslims are alike, but thank god not everybody.

[Watzel]

There is a thing called 'Martyr's syndrome. It is when a person chooses to hold onto beliefs that clearly put them against the rest of society. They feel that if they are persecuted or suffer in some way that they are more special to God somehow. Islam is a perfect example of this kind of emotional disturbance. They must fast, pray 5 times a day, restrict themselves from many of life's pleasures; things that are considered unpleasant to others in the modern world. The women must feel subservient to men and hide their appearance. This is because they enjoy this feeling of persecution and are convinced that God favors people like that the most. This kind of behavior is only self serving; Islam is a selfish religion who's converts are only concerned with personal grace from God. When I see a muslim they will never smile at you, wave, talk or try to assist others when out in society. Heck, they won't even look at other people in regular society because they are not interested in anyone else but their own selves.

All based on ONE man's story that HE talked to an entity of God. What kind of an insane person would believe that?

It is a sickness and must be treated as such to understand such people.

[Iblis]

This martyr's syndrome? Is this something you just made up? If not i would really like to se some documantation on that?

You talk about choosing belifes that puts them agaisnt the rest of society... and what are those if i may ask? The thing about fasting.. Have you ever tryed it? Or praying? You dont know if muslims like doing that? Has it ever occured you that muslims enjoy doing those things because it makes them feel closer to God?

I dont know how many muslims you have met, but i cant be many if you are saying that no muslim will ever say godday or talk to other people, and that they are selfish.

I am sorry but i can not take this seriosly, because it just looks like something written by a mentally disturbed person

[ForRizzle]

I think most muslims are just swell. However, i sure do see allot of violence each and every day with radical muslims killing people all over the globe in random act of mass murder as a form of political speech. It would seem those people are the mentally disturbed ones. Kinda hard to ignore that. Its a real problem.

[odas]

Yes, mentaly disturbed are the ones who commit killings in the "name" of God.

Like Christians did it in the past.

Now we have mentaly disturbed moslems who do the same to others.

Mentaly disturbed are also the one who generalize people. Still in the USA, a policemen is more likely to stop an African-American in a routine controle then a White caucasian.

Also, most likely to generalize are People like Watzel, who know the world only thru Fox or NBC. Who never went otside their neighbourhood, but know everything best what is going on in the world.

People who had the chanse to travel and experinace other believes and cultures do not generalize and will not say : They are all the same.

So, like JTM said, coments like those are a joke. No experiance or wisdom behind it.

No panic, I'm Islamic.

[.AKUMA.]

I think most muslims are just swell. However, i sure do see allot of violence each and every day with radical muslims killing people all over the globe in random act of mass murder as a form of political speech. It would seem those people are the mentally disturbed ones. Kinda hard to ignore that. Its a real problem.

Thats the is the point everyone is making! those radicals dont only kill unbeleviers they kill muslims and anyone who comes in their way. this isnt a war against islam or its beliefs in anyway

its a war againt terrorism plain and simple.

[__Kratos__]

I agree with you whole-heartedly. Don't forget that during the recent World Cup it was requested to not fly the English flag for fear of offending minorities and appearing to support the fanatics.

We are not allowed to mention anything deemed racist, whether blackboard, black magic (as in the term for medieval witchcraft) etc..., because it could offend.

God forbid if something were ever to come into the curriculum at schools whereby it refers to Muslims in holy wars or losing. That will offend too.

Whether or not the Government do something, people will. Voting in the BNP in larger numbers than ever before is the start of the stance.

For an extremist view I remember (no link) talk that England could be a Muslim state within 100 years. Maybe over the top, but you do wonder when the firsr Muslim party wins a council.

I've heard about those... Just insane. I've also heard of changing children songs to cut out the word 'black' in Boo Peep (sp? ).

I also found it odd you couldn't fly a historical flag as you pleased.

BNP won a lot of seats... It's just no in the UK either... Lots of countries are getting sick and tired and voting more right winged groups in.

If they are so happy with islam that they haft to try and spread it to Europe, why didn't they just stay where they were? You know, those islamic nations?

Is it because they are seeking a better life? Well, why are they trying to spread a way of life in Europe when it failed so miserably in thier homeland that they had to flee it for a better life? Do you see where I'm going with this? If it didn't work there where everybody went along with it, what makes them think that it will work somewhere else, where the people don't even want it?

I have no problem with the guy up the street who is a muslim. He doesn't try to convert me or blow up my cat or anything but, he also realizes that this is not Saudi Arabia. And I think that he's glad about that.

It's a good question. Good post.

Good point, Europe is paying for it's own undermining through all of it's social/welfare programs. That's why the citizens who deserve them can't get them.

Sort of like in the United States, we give free medical care to illegal immegrants and then have turn away our own citizens because ther are not enough beds! It happens all the time at the hospital where my wife works.

They won't be able to keep up the flood as it's getting larger then the illegal immigrants in the US. Look at France... At least our illegal immigrants don't make civil war on us, bomb us, throw violent and unruly riots at us...

Well it's not everybody that had the choise of staying in their "islamic nation". Im saying this because me and many other muslims from Bosnia, were threatend with death if we didn't leave our home, by the serbs who are christians.

I think that people are focusing to much on what muslims are doing wrong, and by that they are thinking that all muslims are terrorist.

.But what about the places where it's the other way around? Like Bosnia, Kosovo, Tjetjenia?I live in Denmark now and some people are still thinking that muslims are those crazy wackos that hate all christians and want's to make jihad on them. Trust me. I hate those fanaticals muslims as much as you, and im hoping that all other "modern muslims" stand up and say that they aren't like them.

Sorry you lost your home. Though since you were forced to flee, I don't think it's the host countries fault of it to accepting immigrants from war torn areas. "When in Rome; Do as the Romans."

Well the Koran does say not to take outsiders of the faith as friends and doesn't look kindly on them, can you wonder why they would think that?

This martyr's syndrome? Is this something you just made up? If not i would really like to se some documantation on that?

You talk about choosing belifes that puts them agaisnt the rest of society... and what are those if i may ask? The thing about fasting.. Have you ever tryed it? Or praying? You dont know if muslims like doing that? Has it ever occured you that muslims enjoy doing those things because it makes them feel closer to God?

I dont know how many muslims you have met, but i cant be many if you are saying that no muslim will ever say godday or talk to other people, and that they are selfish.

I am sorry but i can not take this seriosly, because it just looks like something written by a mentally disturbed person

It's called many things. It's a 'disease' that is spreading for those that want to fight for Allah and blow themselves up or fight to the death. Surely you know this was started by mainstream Muslims and now has taken up the jihad all over the world using the same tactics.

Regardless of what you think as a mental illness or anything, it's happening. "Cult of the suicide bomber" would be a good thing for you to watch I think. It's an ex-CIA officer talking about suicide bombers and what they mean to Islam.

Yes, mentaly disturbed are the ones who commit killings in the "name" of God.

Like Christians did it in the past.

Now we have mentaly disturbed moslems who do the same to others.

Mentaly disturbed are also the one who generalize people. Still in the USA, a policemen is more likely to stop an African-American in a routine controle then a White caucasian.

Also, most likely to generalize are People like Watzel, who know the world only thru Fox or NBC. Who never went otside their neighbourhood, but know everything best what is going on in the world.

People who had the chanse to travel and experinace other believes and cultures do not generalize and will not say : They are all the same.

So, like JTM said, coments like those are a joke. No experiance or wisdom behind it.

No panic, I'm Islamic.

Now we have? Did I miss something in history that Muslims stopped the bloodshed while the Christians were doing it? They never did stop.

That example is flawed because well, it's not based on race. The numbers are. It's not the white officers fault that the black community has the highest crime rate in the country compared to all other races. He's just doing his job. If more of one race commit a crime, more cops will stop them or catch them in the crime. Now if the cop just saw a black man on the street and tackled him to search him... That's profiling and that would be wrong.

Last time I checked though, being black isn't a religion that following any book. It's the book that makes Muslims looked on as well as the actions of other Muslims following the book that makes people look around at the world and wonder.

[odas]

I've heard about those... Just insane. I've also heard of changing children songs to cut out the word 'black' in Boo Peep (sp? ).

I also found it odd you couldn't fly a historical flag as you pleased.

BNP won a lot of seats... It's just no in the UK either... Lots of countries are getting sick and tired and voting more right winged groups in.

It's a good question. Good post.

They won't be able to keep up the flood as it's getting larger then the illegal immigrants in the US. Look at France... At least our illegal immigrants don't make civil war on us, bomb us, throw violent and unruly riots at us...

Sorry you lost your home. Though since you were forced to flee, I don't think it's the host countries fault of it to accepting immigrants from war torn areas. "When in Rome; Do as the Romans."

Well the Koran does say not to take outsiders of the faith as friends and doesn't look kindly on them, can you wonder why they would think that?

It's called many things. It's a 'disease' that is spreading for those that want to fight for Allah and blow themselves up or fight to the death. Surely you know this was started by mainstream Muslims and now has taken up the jihad all over the world using the same tactics.

Regardless of what you think as a mental illness or anything, it's happening. "Cult of the suicide bomber" would be a good thing for you to watch I think. It's an ex-CIA officer talking about suicide bombers and what they mean to Islam.

Now we have? Did I miss something in history that Muslims stopped the bloodshed while the Christians were doing it? They never did stop.

That example is flawed because well, it's not based on race. The numbers are. It's not the white officers fault that the black community has the highest crime rate in the country compared to all other races. He's just doing his job. If more of one race commit a crime, more cops will stop them or catch them in the crime. Now if the cop just saw a black man on the street and tackled him to search him... That's profiling and that would be wrong.

Last time I checked though, being black isn't a religion that following any book. It's the book that makes Muslims looked on as well as the actions of other Muslims following the book that makes people look around at the world and wonder.

Listen to yourself.

First, do not be sorry for his or mine home cause we are not. This is only materialistic.

By "home" JTM and I mean something else, more in value, what you would not understand.

You do not feel sorry, however, for all those who were slaughtered and krippeled by the serbian armada. And the victims only fault? They were freakin moslems.

That happend in the middle of Europe, while the same Europe was watching and cheering on the Serbs. In the first raws England and France. Who'd guess?

The only friend we ( the bosnian muslims ) had was President Clinton. He tried but to help, he wanted to bomb serbia in 1993/94 but no, England and France said they will solve it.

So, frankly I do not give a sh** what is happening to them now.

This is just to let you know Kratos, that the bosnian muslims do not hate America or Americans. They know what America has done to help us ( in some secret missions on the line USA-Bosnia some of us were involved- thanks USA ).

Second, your answer:"Now we have?" is in a total contrast to all you statements about you being not a Christian.

Well, I see you are standing up for Christianity, which is a good thing.

That is why I am standing up for Islam although I know it is not perfect but it is mine.

No panic, I'm Islamic.

[__Kratos__]

I do listen to myself.

Well, alright then. I didn't say anywhere that they hated America either. Though I do point to what their book says and look around. The Koran says one things and Muslims say another? How much sense does that make?

I'm not standing up for the Christians, they were killing and crap as well. Just saying during that time, so were the Muslims.

Edited October 13, 2006 by __Kratos__

[Iblis]

Well the Koran does say not to take outsiders of the faith as friends and doesn't look kindly on them, can you wonder why they would think that?

It's called many things. It's a 'disease' that is spreading for those that want to fight for Allah and blow themselves up or fight to the death. Surely you know this was started by mainstream Muslims and now has taken up the jihad all over the world using the same tactics.

If that what you have said really is written in the Quran, then okay. BUT! You know as well as i do that not everything is followed 100 % in the Quran and this being one of them.

I think that the main problem here isn't the religion Islam itself, but the people that diliberatly

misinterpret what is written. And teach other people what they think is right, and then they can tell you what ever they think is right. Those people who follow the Quran 100 % are some of the nicest people in the world, like the people who are 100 % Chrristians, Buddist or Jews. So do nok blame the religiom blame the people who call them self, "teachers of the religion" but they mislead you, and tell lies. I am really ashamed that they call themself muslims.

And like Odas said. Your interpretation of home is not like ours. My home, is my contry where i feel peace in my heart every time im there. Here in Denmark i feel like i'm a visitor even tough i lived here for 13 years of my 18 year old life.

[Roj47]

And like Odas said. Your interpretation of home is not like ours. My home, is my contry where i feel peace in my heart every time im there. Here in Denmark i feel like i'm a visitor even tough i lived here for 13 years of my 18 year old life.

Do you plan to return home?

[Iblis]

Do you plan to return home?

Like i said, i am only 18 years old. But yes i plan on returning some day iff possible. But first off all i will have an education and then go down there. I would like to contribute with something when going back, and i want to help the contry becoming a better place to live in.

[__Kratos__]

If that what you have said really is written in the Quran, then okay. BUT! You know as well as i do that not everything is followed 100 % in the Quran and this being one of them.

Amusing at best. You either follow the entire book or you don't at all, you know why? Koran is translated and what it really means is 'recite'. The Koran is the reciting of Allah's words which are all held as true by Muslims. As Allah cannot be wrong in any shape or form.

I diliberatly misinterpret?

*digs out Koran and flips pages*

O YOU who have attained the faith! Do not take for your bosom-friends people who are not of your kind. They spare no effort to corrupt you; they would love to see you in distress. Vehement hatred has already come into the open from out of their mouths, but what their hearts conceal is yet worse. We have indeed made the signs [thereof] clear unto you, if you would but use your reason.

-Surah 3:118

Oh yeah, I suppose the people under Islamic law right now are also misinterpreting the Koran, even more so in Mecca.

I also guess the Islamic terrorists are all as well.

Hmm... How about Muslims that are in Western countries that express their values and customs... Honor killings, veiled women, lack of free speech in free countries, ect.

BUT! Shh!!! All those Muslims across the globe are misinterpreting Allah's words!

[odas]

All you do is repeating the same few verses from the Quran and nobody is saying this is not true.

What JTM is trying to say that some muslims are understanding the Quran more figuratively then others.

There is absolutely not difference between the Quran and the Bible regarding God.

He can be mercifull but also cruel.

Mentioning the West in regards to Islam, obviously you do not have a clue that Bosnia is in the West. In Europe.

What you do not want to understand that different moslems have different views on Islam, just like different Christians or Jews have different views on Christianity or Judaism.

Again, and again, your hate towards Islam is blinding you so much that you are becoming what you are trying to fight - an extremist.

[Roj47]

Like i said, i am only 18 years old. But yes i plan on returning some day iff possible. But first off all i will have an education and then go down there. I would like to contribute with something when going back, and i want to help the contry becoming a better place to live in.

I can't leave the North-east of England. Any more than 30 miles and I feel sad. Let alone a different country altogether.

[__Kratos__]

All you do is repeating the same few verses from the Quran and nobody is saying this is not true.

So what? They're still true...

What JTM is trying to say that some muslims are understanding the Quran more figuratively then others.

I take it as literal as it was written by Allah.

There is absolutely not difference between the Quran and the Bible regarding God.

He can be mercifull but also cruel.

There is that link.

Mentioning the West in regards to Islam, obviously you do not have a clue that Bosnia is in the West. In Europe.

When I say Europe I mean more western Europe. Sorry for confusion there.

What you do not want to understand that different moslems have different views on Islam, just like different Christians or Jews have different views on Christianity or Judaism.

Again, and again, your hate towards Islam is blinding you so much that you are becoming what you are trying to fight - an extremist.

They do, but the Koran is quite clear... It's the word of Allah that cannot be taken up with.

I'm an extremist for wanting a degree of peace, equality, fair justice, rights and more? I guess I'll find a way to live with my horrible self.

[Lizardian_guy]

I think the message the article sends is that Muslims need to get rid of the extremists.

As it said, you can't say something that could be remotely considered as criticism of islam without getting death threats. This has got to stop. People are afraid to act because it's "discrimination". I say bulls***. You can follow whatever religion you like, but I'll be damned if I let you do crimes in its name.

Let's reverse the roles. Let's say somewhere, some muslim made an unflattering caricature of Albert Einstein or whatever figure you respect. Would the muslims let us march into the streets scanding death threats to the followers of islam? I think not.

In summary, they need to learn that their religion doesn't give them some right above us. They're our equals, and if they try to step on us, we'll have to shove them away.