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Cadetak

What Is The Christian View On The Dinosaur?

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wickedpixie

well that's the thing i have no idea lol i used to hear this guy on tv when i was a little girl say that and one of my sunday school teachers told me that stuff and other various peoples at church :P

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Jor-el

Wicked, could you please find the passages that support what you talked about, because I am a Christian, have been for almost 25 years and I do not recall anything in the Bible talking about several creations of the Earth.

This actually falls in context with what I wrote in post 90.

Although there are many christians who refuse this interpretation, of the Genesis account, it is the most plausible.

Just to be clear on this, there was only one original creation, the rest of the cycles that have occured throughout the ages, have been reconstructions or one could classify them as recovery periods after a cataclysm.

The dinosaur age was one of these periods, our present age (the age of man) is another. No one actually knows how many ages there have been.

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Moondoggy

I will answer to the best of my ability. The record in Genesis is not the original creation. There are many scriptures that show the earth was inhabited by others before the Genesis account. The Hebrew words used in Genesis are "TOHU VA BOHU", this means that the earth was not created originally without form and void. God told Adam to replenish the earth, therefore it had to be "plenished" before. There are accounts in Isaiah and Ezekial that tell us that the Earth suffered a cataclysmic event. This event is believed to have happened between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

The dinosaur period happened long before Adam showed up and it truly fits the Biblical records for those that have simply read it. The answers are in the book if you look. Modern day theologians will not touch the subject because they base their theology on dogma and not biblical research.

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draconic chronicler

I will answer to the best of my ability. The record in Genesis is not the original creation. There are many scriptures that show the earth was inhabited by others before the Genesis account. The Hebrew words used in Genesis are "TOHU VA BOHU", this means that the earth was not created originally without form and void. God told Adam to replenish the earth, therefore it had to be "plenished" before. There are accounts in Isaiah and Ezekial that tell us that the Earth suffered a cataclysmic event. This event is believed to have happened between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

The dinosaur period happened long before Adam showed up and it truly fits the Biblical records for those that have simply read it. The answers are in the book if you look. Modern day theologians will not touch the subject because they base their theology on dogma and not biblical research.

I agree that the "dinosaur period" (Mesozoic) was long before the time of man as both the Bible and science confirms. The dragons which the Bible mentioned living in the time of men are exactly that, dragons. The earliest Christians as well as the Jews knew this when they translated the Hebrew word Seraphim to Drakones in Greek. The word means "fiery flying serpents, and are the oldest and highest of heavenly creatures. There can be no mistake that this was the correct translation, becasue their art depicted the creatures that surrounded God's Throne, (Cherbim and Seraphim) as reptilian dragons and fiery flying serpents, often in the act of swallowing up sinners that didn't pass judgement.

Obviously though, the earth was inhabited with other men as well as Adam, for Cain fled to join other men, as confirmed by science, as well as the earliest version of the Eden story from Sumeria, which the Hebrews brought from that land, though garbled it some, being an oral tradtiton for over a millennia. And the talking dragon who offers Adam eternal life is not a dinosaur, he is a Seraph or Cherub, two of the offices held by these winged, heavenly reptiles.

Adam is not the first "man" then, but the founder of that tribe who would become the Chosen People of God.

Edited by draconic chronicler

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Moondoggy

There is a biblical research technique that is called scripture build-up. This basically is a system of putting the pieces together like a puzzle. For example in Revelation the dragon is called satan and fought a war in heaven (past tense) he and his angels fought and were thrown out. This puts him into the angelic order by logical inferrance. The cross reference scripture that build the same picture are in Isaiah and Ezekiel. These tell the same story but now add titles to Lucifer who fell. He was also the angel of light and the bright and morning star, all are titles. This being fell with one third of the angels of heaven.

Scripture build up adds to the story and never takes away from it. It gives you a fuller picture of what is going on. This technique is used by archeologist as well when deciphering ancient scripts. This technique can and does prove that satan and lucifer are one and the same.

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Jor-el

I agree that the "dinosaur period" (Mesozoic) was long before the time of man as both the Bible and science confirms. The dragons which the Bible mentioned living in the time of men are exactly that, dragons. The earliest Christians as well as the Jews knew this when they translated the Hebrew word Seraphim to Drakones in Greek. The word means "fiery flying serpents, and are the oldest and highest of heavenly creatures. There can be no mistake that this was the correct translation, becasue their art depicted the creatures that surrounded God's Throne, (Cherbim and Seraphim) as reptilian dragons and fiery flying serpents, often in the act of swallowing up sinners that didn't pass judgement.

Obviously though, the earth was inhabited with other men as well as Adam, for Cain fled to join other men, as confirmed by science, as well as the earliest version of the Eden story from Sumeria, which the Hebrews brought from that land, though garbled it some, being an oral tradtiton for over a millennia. And the talking dragon who offers Adam eternal life is not a dinosaur, he is a Seraph or Cherub, two of the offices held by these winged, heavenly reptiles.

Adam is not the first "man" then, but the founder of that tribe who would become the Chosen People of God.

Would you please tell me how you came to the conclusion that Adam was not the 1st man?

As for the dragons part, I believe that every single post of yours has talked about them and they are not relevant at the moment in terms of Moondoggy's post as well as mine.

Another thing that you should consider is that the bible is the only accepted scripture, when you start qouting extra-biblical sources such as the dragon offering Adam eternal life then those passages cannot be held in the same light and wheight as biblical passages.

I'm sure that even Jewish sources would be reticent to put both biblical and non-biblical passages in the same catagory as you are doing.

While I have accepted you interpretation of the Seraphim being Dargons you have not accepted the biblical fact that they are Angels of a different kind and no different in function than any other type of angel. Seraphim are not special in any way aside from being angels and they do Gods work just as any other type of angel does.

The bible doesn't put them in any special catagory and their importance is minimal to the biblical context. You cannot assume anything about them, especially that they originated in the Dinosaur age.

You know, there is a reason that the author of Genesis didn't include these non-biblical sources in the bible. Simply put, they are not true and the story of Genesis is the ungarbled and correct version as approved by God. Or is the bible now a simple book without Divine inspiration as both Christians and Jews accept? Do you put more stock in non-biblical stories than you put in the bible?

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draconic chronicler

There is a biblical research technique that is called scripture build-up. This basically is a system of putting the pieces together like a puzzle. For example in Revelation the dragon is called satan and fought a war in heaven (past tense) he and his angels fought and were thrown out. This puts him into the angelic order by logical inferrance. The cross reference scripture that build the same picture are in Isaiah and Ezekiel. These tell the same story but now add titles to Lucifer who fell. He was also the angel of light and the bright and morning star, all are titles. This being fell with one third of the angels of heaven.

Scripture build up adds to the story and never takes away from it. It gives you a fuller picture of what is going on. This technique is used by archeologist as well when deciphering ancient scripts. This technique can and does prove that satan and lucifer are one and the same.

The Jews, far more expert in Hebrew than the gentiles, never recognized a fallen angel named Lucifer. Jesus doesn't even recognize an angel named Lucifer, becasue this idea wasn't added to Christian theology until hndreds of years later. This passage refers to the very human king of Babylon. There are dozens of websites that explains this in detail, even by staunch Christians who do not wish to perpetuate a myth.

There is no reference to a war in heaven in the Holy Torah endorsed by Jesus as the word of God. The war with the dragon is taken verbatim from zoroastrian mythology and does not appear in any holy scripture until the Jews returned from Babylonian captivity polluted with ideas of pagan dualism. In the much older, Persian version, the dragon is even bound up and cast into an abyss exactly as in revelation, escapes and is finally put in the lake of fire. The zoroastrian myth states dragons will destroy one third of the human race in the end times. John say fire breathing, snake tailed, sharp toothed "horses" will destory the exact same one third. This may also be the "third" John symbolizes the dragon taking away.

The notion of God allowing a servant creature to revolt and take away a third of the angels should be a repugnent blasphemy to anyone who affirms God is the creator of the universe. The Jews around the time of Jesus did believe this blasphemy, but have since regarded these ideas as false, unlike most Christians. This dualism is a pagan concept and has no place in real Judao-Christian theology.

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draconic chronicler

Would you please tell me how you came to the conclusion that Adam was not the 1st man?

As for the dragons part, I believe that every single post of yours has talked about them and they are not relevant at the moment in terms of Moondoggy's post as well as mine.

Another thing that you should consider is that the bible is the only accepted scripture, when you start qouting extra-biblical sources such as the dragon offering Adam eternal life then those passages cannot be held in the same light and wheight as biblical passages.

I'm sure that even Jewish sources would be reticent to put both biblical and non-biblical passages in the same catagory as you are doing.

While I have accepted you interpretation of the Seraphim being Dargons you have not accepted the biblical fact that they are Angels of a different kind and no different in function than any other type of angel. Seraphim are not special in any way aside from being angels and they do Gods work just as any other type of angel does.

The bible doesn't put them in any special catagory and their importance is minimal to the biblical context. You cannot assume anything about them, especially that they originated in the Dinosaur age.

You know, there is a reason that the author of Genesis didn't include these non-biblical sources in the bible. Simply put, they are not true and the story of Genesis is the ungarbled and correct version as approved by God. Or is the bible now a simple book without Divine inspiration as both Christians and Jews accept? Do you put more stock in non-biblical stories than you put in the bible?

The oldest Genesis story only deals with Adam losing his chance of attaining eternal life offered by the dragon that would become the trickster serpent. But it is clear that the "first man" was a later embellishment because we see cain later going to live with another clan. This earlier vesion then, is more compatible with ideas of evolution, in which Adam is not the first biological man, but rather, the first spiritual one.

The writer of Genesis did not have the benefit of archaeology as we do today. There was no magical means of preserving these stories perfectly, when they were passed on for over a thousand years as an oral tradition. But if they discovered the original version from the time of Abraham they would surely have used it in the Torah instead.

Are we to throw away the earliest account simply because the compilers of these scriptures did not have it?

If an older version of the Gospels were found, and it differed from what we know today, would you not accept it?

I beleve you are wrong about the hierarchy and function of heavenly creatures. When God wished to inform Mary of her immaculate conception, he does not sent a terrifying, fire spewing man-eating Seraph-dragon. Instead he sends an angel who is essentially an immortal young man, as Adam was supposed to be. Angelos means "messenger". Seraphim means fiery, flying serpents. They are specialist with different heavenly functions. In the time before men, the Cherubim and Seraphim dragons where perfectly adequate servants, but when man appeared, dragons are too frightening and too conspicuous to be used as messengers. They are sent to terrify and punish, such as sending the seraphim in Numbers to punish the complaining Israelites, egyptian first born, swallowing Moses and Jonah, etc. Angels are not destroyers. Even Jacob could out wrestle one, and Lot was afraid they would be overpowered and raped in Sodom.

The angelic Hierarchies are not in the Bible but from later sources. But the Seraphim and Cherubim are the creatures closest to God in the Torah. Apparently humanoid angels or humans cannot survive in God's presence like the larger more powerful "dragons". However, the book of Enoch states Gabriel was placed in charge of the Seraphim Dragons as the angel of "fire and vengeance", but only the Ethiopian church regards this as canon today, though early Christians drew heavily from it, and added portions to the New Testament.

You say we should not use extra-scriptural sources, but the whole idea of a rebellious Satan, and fallen angels comes from the book of Enoch, and elements of the New Testament are copied verbatim from these scriptures. I believe these portions of Enoch are preserved in Jude.

Edited by draconic chronicler

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TheOsirian
What Is The Christian View On The Dinosaur?

Probably upward. A lot of those critters were pretty huge.

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jokedude01

First of all I will say that Christians do not all agree. There are a couple of different theories on how to explain dinosaurs.

1.) The earth was created with bones already in it to test our faith. This is kinda weak, but at the same time its air tight--assuming of course you accept the story of creation.

2.) The book of Job in the Bible makes reference to a "behemoth" (Job 40:15-19). Some believe that this is a dinosaur, but there really isn't a whole lot to support that. It may well have been an elephant or hippo or something like that. For reference, you guys should know that Job was written about the time if not before the book of Genesis was written.

3.) Dinosaurs walked the earth for a while, but have since died out. There are two things to consider on this theory, which is quickly becoming the leading theory. First, carbon dating has been scientifically proven to be wildly inaccurate after about 20.000 years. That is, we can't really tell the difference in age between something that is 20.000 and 50.000 or 1.000.000 years old simply by carbon dating, which is how we have aged dinosaurs. Second, Genesis 1 which tells the Christian story of creation should not be taken as a scientific document, but more like a literary writing to explain one thing: that God created everything. While it says that God created the earth in 6 days and rested on the seventh, that doesn't necessarily mean the world was created in 144 hours. This may have been thousands of years. We know that Adam would have lived about 6.000 years ago based on geneologies in the Bible. But if the world was being created over the course of thousands of years before that, who is to say that dinosaurs may not have been starting to die out by the time Adam was finally created? Again, please understand that the Genesis story does not try to explain dinosaurs--just that God is the creator.

The important thing to Christians, however, is not how to explain the presence of fossils, but how we can be set free from pain and worry about everything by living out the example set by Christ.

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MysticOnion

When I was a child I was basically told that the dinosaurs were not allowed on Noahs Ark and died in a big flood but all the animals alive today including all the humans were saved because they were all on the ark and that is that. We were too young to realise that dinosaurs died out a long time before humans appeared on the Earth (allegedly).

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preacherman76
Just shows the value of a decent education. If only them Canaanite shepherds has bothered to study geophysics at university, instead of missing school altogether, they'd have come up with a much more credible creation story :P

LOL, like first there was nothing, then all of a sudden for no rhyme or reason, there was everything?

Edited by preacherman76

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preacherman76

Wow, I have spoken to hundreds of christians on this subject, and not one EVER said to me "god put dino bones in the earth to test our faith". That is the most rediculas thing Ive ever heard. Well at least top 10.

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cloudwalker2

I have found that when the Words, Maybe,Possibly,What if, Etc, Etc are used to explain or solidify a belief then one can assume that the user of those words do not have the answer and can only inject unanswerable hypothesis. Which in turn renders a debate futile. The dissection of parts of a works and analysis of certain words has turned all subjects open to interpretation.

That depends on what the meaning of "Is" is.

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Neognosis

Catholics believe that Genesis is metaphorical.

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karl 12
Wow, I have spoken to hundreds of christians on this subject, and not one EVER said to me "god put dino bones in the earth to test our faith".

Sadly that 'embracing ignorance' kind of mindset does prevail in some of the more hysterical religious cults.

Do you think dinosaurs were on the ark then?

I'm sure you'll agree Noah would have quite a difficult time finding two Diplodocuses roaming around ancient Palestine (or penguins or polar bears for that matter).

Edited by karl 12

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Copasetic
Wow, I have spoken to hundreds of christians on this subject, and not one EVER said to me "god put dino bones in the earth to test our faith". That is the most rediculas thing Ive ever heard. Well at least top 10.

I'm pretty sure the guy who necroposted the topic just said it here;

First of all I will say that Christians do not all agree. There are a couple of different theories on how to explain dinosaurs.

1.) The earth was created with bones already in it to test our faith. This is kinda weak, but at the same time its air tight--assuming of course you accept the story of creation.

It's air-tight....

3.) Dinosaurs walked the earth for a while, but have since died out. There are two things to consider on this theory, which is quickly becoming the leading theory. First, carbon dating has been scientifically proven to be wildly inaccurate after about 20.000 years. That is, we can't really tell the difference in age between something that is 20.000 and 50.000 or 1.000.000 years old simply by carbon dating, which is how we have aged dinosaurs. Second, Genesis 1 which tells the Christian story of creation should not be taken as a scientific document, but more like a literary writing to explain one thing: that God created everything. While it says that God created the earth in 6 days and rested on the seventh, that doesn't necessarily mean the world was created in 144 hours. This may have been thousands of years. We know that Adam would have lived about 6.000 years ago based on geneologies in the Bible. But if the world was being created over the course of thousands of years before that, who is to say that dinosaurs may not have been starting to die out by the time Adam was finally created? Again, please understand that the Genesis story does not try to explain dinosaurs--just that God is the creator.

The important thing to Christians, however, is not how to explain the presence of fossils, but how we can be set free from pain and worry about everything by living out the example set by Christ.

There are two things to consider with your theory. First, carbon dating has been scientifically proven to very accurate, to about 50,000 years ago (by the way it should be a , not a . in your times). That is we can easily tell the difference between something that is 20,000 and 50,000 years old.

Second, no one is carbon dating dinosaurs, unless you intend to waste a bunch of money on a test that will (knowingly) give you an inaccurate date. There are literally, hundreds of kinds of radioisotopic dating methods -Ones with much longer half-lives are used to date dinosaurs (and still, not the actual bones). Maybe you should read THIS (another post here at UM) to help you understand how radioisotope dating works.

I think, all things considered Ol' Abe applies again?

-Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

Abraham Lincoln

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preacherman76
I'm pretty sure the guy who necroposted the topic just said it here;

It's air-tight....

Of course. Its best to only listen to the most ignorant among christians and paint us all with the same brush. :)

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Max.L
In the Genisis stories God created earth with modern day animals.

Could you point out where in the bible that dinosaurs weren't created along with those modern day animals?

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bo nanza
The existence of dinosaurs in the earths history contradicts the events in the bible. In the Genisis stories God created earth with modern day animals.

How does the existence of Dinosaurs contradict the Bible? :angry:

(1) To understand the Bible correctly- You have to read it correctly! You can't pick and choose Scriptures.... :rolleyes:

(2) God is not bound by time as we humans now are-

2 Peter 3:8

8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

Genesis 2

4 These are the "GENERATIONS" of the heavens and of the earth when they were "created", "in the day" that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

(3) Genesis 1

1 In the beginning God "created" the heavens and the earth.

-end of statement- Who knows how many ages have past between verses 1 and 2?

2 And the earth was without form, and "void"; and darkness was upon the "face of the deep". And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the "waters".

Is it not possible that Dinosaurs were on earth between verses 1 and 2?

Is it then possible that the same Dinosaurs could of Died from the Flood spoken of in verse 2

1 Peter 3:5-7

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens "were of old", and the earth standing "out of the water" and "in the water":

6 Whereby the world that "then was", being overflowed with water, perished:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are "now", by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

****Lets Look at History according to the Bible****

God creates the Heavens and the Earth__

ages pass, Dinosaurs are created__

ages pass, Dinosaurs are Destroyed__

Satan rebels, God kicks him out of Heaven and gives him an Earthly Kingdom__

Pe-Adamites are on earth at some point and later Destroyed by another Flood__

Genesis 1

26 And God said, Let us "make" man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion -----

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; "male and female" He "created Them"-----

28 And God blessed "them", and God said unto "them", Be fruitful, and multiply, and "REPLENISH the earth"

God starts over and makes Adam.... and then separately later on Eve__

Genesis 2

7 And the LORD God "formed man" of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and "man became a living soul".

8 And the LORD God planted a Garden eastward in Eden; and there he put "the man" whom "he had formed".

18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should "be alone", I will "make" him an help meet "for him".

21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon "Adam", and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, "made he a woman", and brought "her" unto the man.

Satan still on earth, deceives Eve in the Garden of Eden__

Their eyes were opened and they now know the difference between good and evil, they were kicked out of the Garden and they would now have to one day physically Die- same applies to all humans after them

ages pass- More Angels rebel and Fall From Heaven and Have sex with Beautiful women and they make a race of demigod halfbreed Giants__

Genesis 6

1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the "sons of God" "saw the daughters of men" that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

4 There were "giants" in the earth in those days; and "also after that", when the "sons of God" came in unto the "daughters of men", and "they bare children to them", the same became "mighty men" which were of old, men of renown.

Noah and his family are the only ones not following the sexual sin of the Angels- His family was they only ones at that time not blemished- they were still pure humans__

God causes yet another Flood to kill all the Giants- a.k.a. demigod halfbreed children from Humans and Angels- they were teaching evil and killing everything__

Noah and his family start over and replenish the world__

God promises to Never completely destroy everything living by flood again as he has done is the past__

Genesis 8

21 I will not again "curse the ground any more for man's sake", for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth, "neither will I again smite any more every thing living", "as I have done".

Genesis 9

11 "neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood", neither shall there any more be a "flood to destroy the earth".

The word "Dinosaur" does not appear in the Bible- But there is a good reason for it.

The King James Version was translated in 1611, way before the first fossils of dinosaurs were found in 1820 and before the invention of the word "Dinosaur" meaning "terrible lizard" in 1841.

To me this Scripture has always sounded more like a Dinosaur:

Job 40

15 Look at the "behemoth"

which I made along with you

and which feeds on grass like an ox.

16 What strength he has in his loins,

what power in the muscles of his belly!

17 "His tail" sways like a "cedar",

the sinews of his thighs are close-knit.

18 "His bones are tubes of bronze",

his "limbs like rods of iron".

19 ***"He ranks first among the works of God"****

yet his Maker can approach him with his sword.

20 The hills bring him their produce,

and all the wild animals play nearby.

21 Under the lotus plants he lies,

hidden among the reeds in the marsh.

22 The lotuses conceal him in their shadow;

the poplars by the stream surround him.

23 Behold, he "drinketh up a river", and hasteth not: he trusteth that "he can draw up Jordan into his mouth".

:ph34r: Next Question, PLEASE :lol:

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Copasetic
Of course. Its best to only listen to the most ignorant among christians and paint us all with the same brush. :)

Did you even bother to read what I wrote in the context of your post? Can you please quote me where I have only "listened to the most ignorant and painted you with the same brush"? Maybe you should slow down a little bit and stop painting yourself. Take a little more time reading the topics?

You said, and I quote;

Wow, I have spoken to hundreds of christians on this subject, and not one EVER said to me "god put dino bones in the earth to test our faith". That is the most rediculas thing Ive ever heard.

I quoted that part, because apparently you have never heard a fellow Christian say that (after speaking to hundreds of them)...Which surely is quite 'rediculas', I agree. But, it doesn't change the fact people say it.

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preacherman76
Sadly that 'embracing ignorance' kind of mindset does prevail in some of the more hysterical religious cults.

Do you think dinosaurs were on the ark then?

I'm sure you'll agree Noah would have quite a difficult time finding two Diplodocuses roaming around ancient Palestine (or penguins or polar bears for that matter).

No I dont think Dinos where on the ark. Nor do I think man and dino co-existed.

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preacherman76
Did you even bother to read what I wrote in the context of your post? Can you please quote me where I have only "listened to the most ignorant and painted you with the same brush"? Maybe you should slow down a little bit and stop painting yourself. Take a little more time reading the topics?

You said, and I quote;

I quoted that part, because apparently you have never heard a fellow Christian say that (after speaking to hundreds of them)...Which surely is quite 'rediculas', I agree. But, it doesn't change the fact people say it.

All Im saying is, that isnt even close to the thoughts of Christians as a whole. And I mean not even close. In fact, till today, Ive never even heard of it.

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Cadetak

What the poo? I made this thread like two whole years ago...who's bin necroposting? Or are my threads just that popular?

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