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__Kratos__

Bush accepts Iraq-Vietnam echoes

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__Kratos__

President George W Bush has accepted that the surge in violence in Iraq may be equivalent to America's traumatic experience in the Vietnam War.

Mr Bush told ABC News that it could be right to compare Iraq's situation to the 1968 Tet offensive, widely seen as a key turning point in the conflict.

But he denied that the rising number of Iraqi and US military deaths meant the Iraq campaign was failing.

October is on course to be one of the bloodiest months for US forces in Iraq.

So far about 70 troops have died, and with an average of three Americans dying every day this is one of the highest casualty rates sustained by the US military since January 2005.

Psychological blow

In an interview with ABC News, Mr Bush was asked if he agreed with a newspaper columnist who had written that the current fighting in Iraq may be compared to the Tet offensive in Vietnam.

VIETNAM WAR

"He could be right," Mr Bush said. "There's certainly a stepped up level of violence and we're heading into an election."

During the Tet offensive, the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese armies launched a combined assault on US positions.

Militarily, the assault failed but it was a huge psychological blow for the Americans and their allies, and eroded political support for the then president, Lyndon Johnson.

Mr Bush appeared to suggest that steadiness of nerve could avoid a repeat of history, says the BBC's Justin Webb in Washington, although any comparison with Vietnam raises eyebrows in the US.

The White House later sought to clarify Mr Bush's comments.

"The full context was that the comparison was about the propaganda waged in the Tet Offensive...and the president was reiterating something he's said before - that the enemy is trying to shake our will," spokeswoman Dana Perino said in a statement.

In the interview, Mr Bush reiterated that US troops would stay despite the casualties.

"Al-Qaeda is still very active in Iraq...They are trying not only to kill American troops but they're trying to foment sectarian violence. They believe that if they can create enough chaos, the American people will grow sick and tired of the Iraqi effort and will cause (the) government to withdraw."

Difficult task

With the latest opinion polls suggesting that Mr Bush's Republican Party faces defeat in next month's mid-term congressional elections, the president is doing his best to fight his corner, our correspondent says.

I define success or failure as whether we're seeing a democracy grow in the heart of the Middle East

President Bush

The enemy defined success or failure by the number of casualties, Mr Bush said.

His definition was whether Iraqis could defend themselves, whether schools were being built, hospitals being opened.

"I define success or failure as whether we're seeing a democracy grow in the heart of the Middle East."

Pulling out troops from Iraq would be the equivalent of surrender, he said.

"I'm patient. I'm not patient forever...But I recognise the degree of difficulty of the task, and therefore say to the American people we won't cut and run."

Source

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Not so much saying it's vietnam as saying the increased violence is a part as the NVA did to influence elections.

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UncleSam1776

Good job Mr. President. Hold strong and keep up the fight.

How can anyone really compare the Vietnam War against this War?

Vietnam was a war we couldn't win. Not without escalating the conflict far beyond what was wanted. The losses during Vietnam were staggering on a daily basis. Nearly 60,000 Americans perished during the 12 year conflict in Vietnam.

Iraq is a war that needs to be won. A friendly democratic government needs to set the standards in the Middle East. The losses during the current conflict are not even close to the numbers for Vietnam. With under 3,000 American casualties, in 1,300 days.

Iraq has less than three American deaths per day.

Vietnam had over twelve American deaths per day.

The war could possible become as deadly as Vietnam. That would require some serious escalations and some type of organized attacks on U.S. forces.

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Cinders

Whatever UncleSam1776.. :rolleyes: yea, Cheney expects this to be a "25 to 50 year war" .. so I am sure this will exceed the Vietnam War if this statement comes true.

Maybe if some of us took an actual look at the faces who died in this war based on LIES and false pretenses, they might have a different view on all this:

READ / SEE about each one HERE

We went in half-@ssed into Afghanistan to hunt down the problem but the REAL PLAN ALL ALONG from the get go was to go to IRAQ... They never had true intentions to get Osama and company - The Afghanistan "stop over" was just to appease us as well as give Bush & Company time to invade Iraq.

Colin Powell warned the president, "If you invade Iraq, and if you break it, you own it.."

Now we are paying for it with bloodshed that is also breeding others to do the same for generations to come. A NEVER ENDING CYCLE OF BLOODSHED. Nice goin' Bush and Company!

don't take my word for it - I could care less, but do the research and make up your own mind...

A great place to review some very important matters from the past and why we are where we are today, are the numerous videos for FREE online provided by PBS, such as:

Rumsfeld's War, The Torture Question, The Dark Side, The Enemy Within, The Lost Year in Iraq.

Find these informative videos here: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/view/

H3ll, I wish there was a true solution to the idea of "Let's VOTE them ALL out of the office and start fresh!"

If only.. *sigh*

Edited by Cinders

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__Kratos__

Whatever UncleSam1776.. :rolleyes: yea, Cheney expects this to be a "25 to 50 year war" .. so I am sure this will exceed the Vietnam War if this statement comes true.

What do you disagree with? "Whatever" is a blanket statement.

Cheney talking about the 25 to 50 year war is talking about the war on terror and just not Iraq. The people and their elected officals supported for this war on terror. It just didn't happen.

Edited by __Kratos__

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Cinders

What do you disagree with? "Whatever" is a blanket statement.

Cheney talking about the 25 to 50 year war is talking about the war on terror and just not Iraq. The people and their elected officals supported for this war on terror. It just didn't happen.

Yes.. I KNOW that! But this so-called War on Terror was NOT how all this really originally started though! But they have manipulated all this over the past few years to make it that way and as the reason to justify the war in Iraq etc.

Come on now.. you think the Republicans would ever admit to failure and making terrible mistakes ? Nah, it's easier to BS ya..

Seriously Kratos, I wished you'd watch a few of those PBS videos I suggested.

The war in IRAQ is BS from the get go!

Like I said, I really could care less what you think - whether you are a Bush @ss kisser or a liberal or a Democrat or Republican. But I am sick and tired of people not really thinking about all this - maybe we need the MEDIA to quit watering down and censoring what is really happening in Iraq.... Maybe we should see the REAL results of what is happening to our soldiers and the innocent Iraqi's.

I never thought there would be the day that I would see a war all built up based on lies, deceit, false pretenses, and terrible mistakes, and within all that a president that can pull whatever the h3ll he likes here and abroad. Since 9/11, Bush has been given Carte Blanche to do whatever the h3ll he wants.

God, why do I even bother wasting my time with Bush brown nosers?

My ONLY hope now is that my son-in-law and other soldiers come home safe and soon!

*someone wake me up from this nightmare!*

Edited by Cinders

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__Kratos__

Yes.. I KNOW that! But this so-called War on Terror was NOT how all this really originally started though! But they have manipulated all this over the past few years to make it that way and as the reason to justify the war in Iraq etc.

Come on now.. you think the Republicans would ever admit to failure and making terrible mistakes ? Nah, it's easier to BS ya..

It has been justified. Just not for the main objective for going in.

I think a couple have admitted mistakes, but I'd really love to see Bush to stand up at a press meeting and say he's wrong. His cover that went alright is what ticks a lot of people off, including me, when he can stand up and still think he is right with that stupid grin of his then still has the face to chuckle at questions about Iraq.

Seriously Kratos, I wished you'd watch a few of those PBS videos I suggested.

I watch PBS more then you might think ;)

I really could care less what you think

Why bother even posting then? Just to keep using a response to my post or any other Iraq related thread to rant and rant and rant and rant and rant?

Edited by __Kratos__

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Cinders

Why bother even posting then? Just to keep using a response to my post or any other Iraq related thread to rant and rant and rant and rant and rant?

If my "rants" as you call them, which are clearly my opinions so what! It's related so quit whining sweetie.

Like I said, I don't care how you vote, what you think blah blah blah, but I WILL voice my "opinion" on such topics, because I am tired of people not seeing the other side, not really thinking about this or researching it.

I already know where YOU stand.. right along side there with:

Rumsfeld, Cheney & Bush aka: dumb, dumber & dumbest! :lol:

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Mr. Hand

Good job Mr. President. Hold strong and keep up the fight.

How can anyone really compare the Vietnam War against this War?

easily, like vietnam iraq has divided the us in two and emotions run high on both sides. the recent report done by james baker is said to have been done mainly to repair this rift, because like vietnam this rift will grow until the whole country is torn apart. that is the biggest fear in washington right now.

Vietnam was a war we couldn't win. Not without escalating the conflict far beyond what was wanted. The losses during Vietnam were staggering on a daily basis. Nearly 60,000 Americans perished during the 12 year conflict in Vietnam.

the escalation of conflict in the vietnam war, for instance to cambodia did nothing to help the war effort in vietnam, escalating the conflict was done and didnt work, you're wrong there. counting casualties to compare wars is useless.

Iraq is a war that needs to be won. A friendly democratic government needs to set the standards in the Middle East.

like vietnam many say iraq "needs" to be won or... blah blah blah will happen. remember the communist domino effect a loss in vietnam would cause in the region the policy makers said? ya it didnt happen, so the needs and musts didnt pan out like they said, though it is a useful tool to keep support for a war as long as possible.

The losses during the current conflict are not even close to the numbers for Vietnam. With under 3,000 American casualties, in 1,300 days.

Iraq has less than three American deaths per day.

Vietnam had over twelve American deaths per day.

as i said comparing casualties is pointless. compare casualties from wwii and vietnam, still doesnt mean anything. it comes down to the situation not dead and wounded. guerilla wars, civil wars, quagmires, the effect on the country, the moral of the troops and officers and henry kissinger, who i should remind you is now giving bush a hand. well kissinger is really talented at saving his own **** but not wars.

The war could possible become as deadly as Vietnam. That would require some serious escalations and some type of organized attacks on U.S. forces.

if you are looking for columns of soldiers marching againts the troops in iraq, it wont happen, its a guerilla war, just like in vietnam. both are guerilla wars, both have organized attacks.

the problem in iraq is that things are going downhill, holding the course means holding on until it hits rock bottom. either change course, start gaining some ground or get out. holding the course is suicide.

its time for some people to admit that they are wrong or the war will never be won or over. holding the course until 2008 or 2020 and then pulling out just results in more dead us troops. bush is playing politics with the lives of american soldiers, holding on because he will lose support if he admits the failure. that doesnt mean surrender and run, only he has made these the two options. i assure you there are more than two options, he just knows how to polarize people into two camps and worry more about votes than lives.

we have seen the peak, the tide has turned, get used to it or get left in the dust.

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__Kratos__

If my "rants" as you call them, which are clearly my opinions so what! It's related so quit whining sweetie.

First, don't call me sweetie. I'm not your friend nor am I related to you.

Your opinions are your own. Seemly you reject anything outside of that. You clearly showed that when I posted what good things actually happen in Iraq that the media doesn't talk about.

If it's good, it can't be true or it's not reported. If it's bad, you'll see it all over the headlines within an hour of it being released.

I'm sure you son in law feels great that people are seeing him as a problem in Iraq rather then a helper in resorting Iraq. There are even people out there calling him a baby killing murderer. I'm sure he feels real great about that as well.

Like I said, I don't care how you vote, what you think blah blah blah, but I WILL voice my "opinion" on such topics, because I am tired of people not seeing the other side, not really thinking about this or researching it.

Hmm... So you're admitting to trolling? :unsure2: Why not actually discuss topics?

Because I disagree with you, I don't see the other side? I do know how to read. I know it's not a picinic over there. Well just this morning already, I've seen terrorist sniper shoot at US troops, a US convoy be blown up by an IED, an airstrike on terror mortar fire from Ramadi, a US soldier's leg that was ripped apart from an IED that went through his car, another IED attack by terrorists in Ramadi by blowing up a Humvee, an ambush/IED attack on a hired truck driver in Iraq and an IED attack in Baghdad on US forces.

Besides those videos/images I've read the crappy news on how this month is the deadliest for US troops in over 2 years with 60 dead already this month. Then this morning some lovely terrorists thought they'd shake things up with a handful of carbombs with 31 Iraqis already dead in the streets and the 'verse only knows how many wounded in these attacks. The death toll of these will rise more then likely. Of course that doesn't include the small arms fires, mortars and whatever else they have up their sleeves to reak suffering on the Iraqis and allied forces today.

I already know where YOU stand.. right along side there with:

Rumsfeld, Cheney & Bush aka: dumb, dumber & dumbest! :lol:

Yes, of course... If I agree with them a bit, I must be standing fully with them. *cuts hand and makes the secret group mark on my chest* uh huh, you've got me pegged. :rolleyes:

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Avinash_Tyagi

Maybe we should split Iraq into three seperate nations and be done with it :tu:

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__Kratos__

Maybe we should split Iraq into three seperate nations and be done with it :tu:

You've jumped on that band-wagon now to? :P

I could see that working though to keep the oil cash flowing to each part would be difficult for them to trust each other like that. Then to actually do it, I'm sure they would have some problems with holy sites, buildings and historic cities.

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Cinders

I'm sure you son in law feels great that people are seeing him as a problem in Iraq rather then a helper in resorting Iraq. There are even people out there calling him a baby killing murderer. I'm sure he feels real great about that as well.

Hmm... So you're admitting to trolling? :unsure2: Why not actually discuss topics?

Grow up Kratos.. I am simply stating my views, could care less how YOU vote but hope people like you really think about it and I AM NOT TROLLING. So quit saying such nonsense. I am actually discussing the topic... are you? If you are, great.. and so am I.

It seems that back in the Vietnam days, it was about the fear of communism. Well now it's all about the fear of terrorism. Only this so-called war on terror will last far longer.

Avinash Tyagi, I wish that idea could work.. seems reasonable.. but so many in Iraq and elsewhere do not want that as a solution either.

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KingTomis

Then of course turkey would go to war with the Kurds....

Way to think that one through.

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__Kratos__

Grow up Kratos.. I am simply stating my views, could care less how YOU vote but hope people like you really think about it and I AM NOT TROLLING. So quit saying such nonsense. I am actually discussing the topic... are you? If you are, great.. and so am I.

It seems that back in the Vietnam days, it was about the fear of communism. Well now it's all about the fear of terrorism. Only this so-called war on terror will last far longer.

Avinash Tyagi, I wish that idea could work.. seems reasonable.. but so many in Iraq and elsewhere do not want that as a solution either.

You said you didn't care about what anybody else had to say and just going on about your opinions. If you truely don't care, stop responding to my posts?

I'm on topic, seemly. You ignored most what I had to say and then tell me to "grow up". Gee, thanks for that insightful discussion about the War in Iraq being discussed with Bush's recent statements.

Fear of terrorism? Unlike the commies terrorists have phsycially attacked the US and it's allies in many different ways already. Perhaps you forget the dead?

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Cinders

Ah screw it then.. OK.. the IRAQ war is just another VIETNAM..

HAPPY?? Thought not...

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Avinash_Tyagi

You've jumped on that band-wagon now to? :P

I could see that working though to keep the oil cash flowing to each part would be difficult for them to trust each other like that. Then to actually do it, I'm sure they would have some problems with holy sites, buildings and historic cities.

Right now it sounds like the best Wagon :P

Well they could work out some loose central government in whcih all three have an equal say, that handles access to the oil and holy sites, etc., so as to garuntee that each group gets its fair share :tu:

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supercar

this war based on LIES and false pretenses

You refering to WMD? President Bush sincerely believed there were WMD in Iraq. If you say something you sincerely believe to be true,it's not lying.

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supercar

like vietnam iraq has divided the us in two and emotions run high on both sides

Iraq has not divided the USA. You just want people to think it has.

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The Silver Thong

You refering to WMD? President Bush sincerely believed there were WMD in Iraq. If you say something you sincerely believe to be true,it's not lying.

How do you know Bush was sincere about the wmd's ? For all we know and do know, there were none !!! So at best Bush fell for lies told to him by his staff. Which I doubt. After Bush senior went in Iraq was wiped out and did not have the means to produce more wmd's, plus Iraq had been under the microscope and was dealing sanctions. Not a good time to worry about restocking you wmd stock piles.

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__Kratos__

How do you know Bush was sincere about the wmd's ? For all we know and do know, there were none !!! So at best Bush fell for lies told to him by his staff. Which I doubt. After Bush senior went in Iraq was wiped out and did not have the means to produce more wmd's, plus Iraq had been under the microscope and was dealing sanctions. Not a good time to worry about restocking you wmd stock piles.

How do you know he wasn't?

As for the microscope on Iraq. Well then how did they miss the oil-for-food UN scandal where Saddam was getting millions and millions of dollars that he was going to use to kill off the kurds and do whatever else he really desired with the extra cash and incoming cash?

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The Silver Thong

How do you know he wasn't?

As for the microscope on Iraq. Well then how did they miss the oil-for-food UN scandal where Saddam was getting millions and millions of dollars that he was going to use to kill off the kurds and do whatever else he really desired with the extra cash and incoming cash?

It was an old microscope :hmm:

Was the fact that Sadam was taking this money for him and his agenda's a secret ?

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Mr. Hand
like vietnam iraq has divided the us in two and emotions run high on both sides

Iraq has not divided the USA. You just want people to think it has.

iraq has divided the us. you just want poeple to think it hasnt.

wow this debating style, if you can call it debate, is really easy.

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Bella-Angelique

Come on now.. you think the Republicans would ever admit to failure and making terrible mistakes ? Nah, it's easier to BS ya..

The Republicans in congress were given the same information as the Democrats in congress and the Democrats voted the same as the Republicans on it.

I am Republican and I think we should carve up Iraq, put down new oil lines, and abandon the middle to themselves. If nothing else this would actually be cheaper for the taxpayer as well as sparing valuable US soldiers for real warfare and not waste them in occupation.

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Cinders

Iraq has not divided the USA. You just want people to think it has.

9/11 UNITED us, but Iraq (and other things) have divided us..like it or not it has.

Check out this quick CNN Express yourself video below and hear what others have to say

LINK

http://www.cnn.com/video/partners/clickabi....yourself.9.cnn

Edited by Cinders

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Unlimited

saddam had the WMDs.. the reason the US was so sure is because they sold them to him...if I told you were they went you would just laugh. :ph34r:

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