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Europe soon to be attacked by nukes and...


Shinedown

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Your argument is old and tired and has no ziphnit! The fact is that Iran does export terror. No one is saying that the entire population are terrorists...however, a large part of the population no doubt hates America purely because of the onslaught of propaganda on TV.

It is also factually known that many Iranians don't hate the West and do loath their own government.

As the map points out....Allied troops are strategically positioned. No one is suggesting either that we are about to march into Iran or that there is any kind of plan for that at all.

It is worth mentioning again as well, that regardless of what American and Allied forces do or do not do...Israel will not allow Iran to achieve Nuclear Club Status. To do so would be to ignore a giant who constantly threatens to destroy them with a nuclear weapon.

I suppose however that AshKat believes that is propaganda too. Nonetheless...before we went into Iraq...we had zero presence in the region...now we have a major presence and if Iran does do anything stupid we have the ability to add rather quickly to a major force already on the ground. Anyone who thinks that our being there is not an important strategic plus has little or no understanding of strategery.

Iran exports terror? It is said that they do, but they could not possibly export one hundredth the amount of terror that the United States does.

The Iraninans hate America because of anti-American propaganda? And I suppose the deaths of over 500,000 Iraqi children because of U.S. imposed sanctions, the invasion of Afghanistan and slaughter of Afghan civilians, the U.S. backed slaughter of over 200,000 landless peasants in Indonesia, the U.S. sponsored Israeli mass bombing campaign against Lebanese civilian neighborhoods, the ivasion of Iraq and the murder of some 150,000 civilians so far, constant interference by the CIA and other western U.S. backed powers in the region, and other massive terroristic atrocities committed by the United States military and their allies have nothing at all to do with that hatred? The Americans are their own worst propagands.

Before we went into Iraq we had zero presence there. When exactly is---before we went into Iraq? We had plenty of presence there before the Gulf War.

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Iran exports terror? It is said that they do, but they could not possibly export one hundredth the amount of terror that the United States does.

The Iraninans hate America because of anti-American propaganda? And I suppose the deaths of over 500,000 Iraqi children because of U.S. imposed sanctions, the invasion of Afghanistan and slaughter of Afghan civilians, the U.S. backed slaughter of over 200,000 landless peasants in Indonesia, the U.S. sponsored Israeli mass bombing campaign against Lebanese civilian neighborhoods, the ivasion of Iraq and the murder of some 150,000 civilians so far, constant interference by the CIA and other western U.S. backed powers in the region, and other massive terroristic atrocities committed by the United States military and their allies have nothing at all to do with that hatred? The Americans are their own worst propagands.

Yeah, yeah...everythings our fault. Even Saddam invading Kuwait. Hitler invading Poland, The bombing of Pearl Harbor, hmmmm..what else can we blame the US for? Stalin? Yep, he's our fault. Gengis Khan?-An early US scout, Emperor Nero? Undoubtably Washingtons' mentor. Trojan war? White House and NWO markings crawling all over it... :rolleyes:

Sounds like someone himself is a victim of propoganda.

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Your argument is old and tired and has no ziphnit! The fact is that Iran does export terror. No one is saying that the entire population are terrorists...however, a large part of the population no doubt hates America purely because of the onslaught of propaganda on TV.

The US exports terror on a far bigger scale than Iran ever has. Nobody says that all Americans are terrorists.

A large part of the population hates the US because of a CIA and British Coup to overthrow their democratically elected leader in 1953, which led to a 25 year reign and the turning of a country that was on diplomatic terms with the US, to massive anti-US sentiment, and the setting up of a theocracy.

----------------------------------------------------

The Law Of Opposites

We have attacked the sovereignty of Iran on two occasions, and are in the process of threatening her for the third time. In 1953, the U.S. and British overthrew the democratically elected Mohammed Mossadegh and installed the Shah. His brutal regime lasted over 25 years, and ended with the Ayatollah taking power in 1979. Our support for the Shah incited the radicalization of the Shi'ite Clerics in Iran, resulting in the hostage takeover.

In the 1980s we provided weapons – including poisonous gas – to Saddam Hussein as we supported his invasion of Iran. These events are not forgotten by the Iranians, who see us once again looking for another confrontation with them. We insist that the UN ignore the guarantees under the NPT that grant countries like Iran the right to enrich uranium. The pressure on the UN and the threats we cast toward Iran are quite harmful to the cause of peace. They are entirely unnecessary and serve no useful purpose. Our policy toward Iran is much more likely to result in her getting a nuclear weapon than prevent it.

Our own effort at democratizing Iran has resulted instead in radicalizing a population whose instincts are to like Americans and our economic system. Our meddling these past 50 years has only served to alienate and unify the entire country against us.

Source

Edited by gollo
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Did I miss something? Why did we jump from Irack and the oil to Iran and jihad?

What day is today? What year?

Actually the thread is about the threat to europe of being nuked by terrorist. It doesnt take long for it to turn into a clusterf... nevermind.

You guys are like Bush, he does not have a clue where he's heading.

We love you to.

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The US exports terror on a far bigger scale than Iran ever has. Nobody says that all Americans are terrorists.

Ah, freethinkers at their best! In the real world there is a 'cause and effect' ratio that governs everything.

The 'freethinkers' thought process: One morning America decided to be really, really bad. They did horrible things to Iranians and that is why the Iranians hate us.

The truth: We went from WWII to Cold War with Russia...

The reason that the Iranian government hates us is because they are Radical Muslims of the Taliban bent! The reason there is so much hate for America IS directly because of the HATE propaganda that spews out of Iranian Television on a non-stop basis.

We nuked Japan....if your 'freethinking' scenario had any nipzphit then the Japanese would hate us also.

The fact that Jihad is real and is gathering Hate-Mongers from all over the world to its cause, is apparently lost on you and your comrades. Wake UP!

Edited by joc
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It is about Jihad dude! Countries here and countries there...Jihad coming from all of them...of course SA is an enemy...but you don't shoot the bull you are riding...you shoot the bull that is charging at you...sometimes the bull you are riding starts charging...then you have to shoot it and jump off at the same time...that can get messy. Who is really brain washed here? ...daddy and sonny boy...seems like you have an ax to grind with the Bush family...I don't...I just call 'em as I see 'em...without the spin of propaganda from either the left or the right.

ya I know all about the jihad..and the wahabiists hate you more than the shiite do...your just being told the shiite are your enemy; not the wahabists...the saudis train them too hate you young...look into 9/11 thats your enemy... the saudi fundamentalists not the iranians you've been trained to hate! ;) you just listen to what bush says; and dont do your own research into who the true jihadists are....the saudis declared war on the US in 2001! and somehow they walked.. thats the level of hypocrisy here....

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No, the US and allies went from WWI to attempting world domination and it's done a pretty good job by anyone's measure. Hence, like the Romans, so many hate it's rhetorical hypocrisy and cultural sleaziness. But it is no better than the questionable virtue of it's enemies, just more powerful at avoiding reprisal and better at inflicting it.

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No, the US and allies went from WWI to attempting world domination

Japan was the ally of the USA in WWI.

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ya I know all about the jihad..and the wahabiists hate you more than the shiite do...your just being told the shiite are your enemy; not the wahabists...the saudis train them too hate you young...look into 9/11 thats your enemy... the saudi fundamentalists not the iranians you've been trained to hate! ;) you just listen to what bush says; and dont do your own research into who the true jihadists are....the saudis declared war on the US in 2001! and somehow they walked.. thats the level of hypocrisy here....

Correct. :tu:

Maybe this is why the rest of the muslim world is pi***d of.

Saudi Arabia is a corrupt state with the most radical views on everything but the saudi princ's spend a lot of mony in Las Vegas and do buttkissing with the bush family.

Tell me this is not hypocrisy.

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It's just too bad the civilians get the brunt of the violence instead of the governments...and I do mean ALL of the corrupt governments.

None of them are beyond refute as far as I'm concerned.

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Maybe this is why the rest of the muslim world is pi***d of.

You are completely, totally, utterly, and unbelievably missing the point...

...the Muslim World is not p***ed off! They aren't! They aren't p***ed about anything!

They aren't p***ed at America and they aren't p***ed at the UK and they aren't p***ed about Western influence in the world. Believing they are is missing the entire point.

The Point:

Jihad! It isn't because they are p***ed off at us!

It has to do with extreme beliefs....extreme to the point that they MUST kill and destroy the infidel. And so, to this end, there really doesn't need to be a particular 'country' that is at fault...the ideology of hate has no geographical boundaries. I don't hold the Saudis blameless...in fact, I have come close to getting banned from this site for previous inflammatory speech concerning the Saudis (which I shall not repeat)...the geography doesn't matter...and that is what you are missing. The geography of the Extremists doesn't matter and the geography of the Infidel doesn't matter. What we are experiencing is a Pregnancy of Ideological Hate of the Infidel. When the baby is delivered...oh my, it is going to be shocking, extremely sad, and very, very bad.

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You are completely, totally, utterly, and unbelievably missing the point...

...the Muslim World is not p***ed off! They aren't! They aren't p***ed about anything!

They aren't p***ed at America and they aren't p***ed at the UK and they aren't p***ed about Western influence in the world. Believing they are is missing the entire point.

The Point:

Jihad! It isn't because they are p***ed off at us!

It has to do with extreme beliefs....extreme to the point that they MUST kill and destroy the infidel. And so, to this end, there really doesn't need to be a particular 'country' that is at fault...the ideology of hate has no geographical boundaries. I don't hold the Saudis blameless...in fact, I have come close to getting banned from this site for previous inflammatory speech concerning the Saudis (which I shall not repeat)...the geography doesn't matter...and that is what you are missing. The geography of the Extremists doesn't matter and the geography of the Infidel doesn't matter. What we are experiencing is a Pregnancy of Ideological Hate of the Infidel. When the baby is delivered...oh my, it is going to be shocking, extremely sad, and very, very bad.

Sure, maybe I am missing my point. but then explain me something.

During the Ottoman empire, and earlier, during the arabic presents in Spain why is it that those cultures werent destroyd?

Over 500 Years of Islamic overhand, and according to your claims, there should be no Spaniard left, no Greek, not Serb....... So, now try to compare that with the Natives in America ( North and south ), where the white man came to conquere. And the timeline is aproximately the same. About 500 Years, give or take.

I am not trying to pick up a fight, just be honest and tell who had it better under whose reign?

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Sure, maybe I am missing my point. but then explain me something.

During the Ottoman empire, and earlier, during the arabic presents in Spain why is it that those cultures werent destroyd?

Over 500 Years of Islamic overhand, and according to your claims, there should be no Spaniard left, no Greek, not Serb....... So, now try to compare that with the Natives in America ( North and south ), where the white man came to conquere. And the timeline is aproximately the same. About 500 Years, give or take.

I am not trying to pick up a fight, just be honest and tell who had it better under whose reign?

During that time there were leaders of Islam to control the masses. But in the last 80 or so years there hasn't been a Caliphate around despite attempts from groups to try and make one so. That's for Sunni's by the way.

The shiites don't have an Imams right now either to lead them, he's being lazy and not coming back. So the people turn to their leaders or groups. Other sects will just look towards leaders and groups as well from what I get.

So the minions of Islam are free to use their religion in today's world to justify any acts of terror... From rape to beheading a truck driver for the world to see. This is all great and jolly to Allah for Islam to be weilding such unbelievable hatred as a weapon towards infidels.

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During that time there were leaders of Islam to control the masses. But in the last 80 or so years there hasn't been a Caliphate around despite attempts from groups to try and make one so. That's for Sunni's by the way.

The shiites don't have an Imams right now either to lead them, he's being lazy and not coming back. So the people turn to their leaders or groups. Other sects will just look towards leaders and groups as well from what I get.

So the minions of Islam are free to use their religion in today's world to justify any acts of terror... From rape to beheading a truck driver for the world to see. This is all great and jolly to Allah for Islam to be weilding such unbelievable hatred as a weapon towards infidels.

Actualy I agree with you because you are contradictoring your self.

The problem IS that most Islamic coutries, like saudi arabia, Iran do not have a real leader, like Jordan, Tunisia, Marocco, Turkey.........

The problem is NOT Islam in itself, or Jihad or Quran.

In many of those Leaderless Islamic countries we have either a corrput regime ( Saudi Arabia ) or a primitive and uneducated one ( Iran and Afgahanistans Taliban )

But, why didn't you finish the comparison? ;)

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Japan was the ally of the USA in WWI.

Where did it all go Wong? Was it true allegiance or was Japan seeing its chance to begin expansion in the Pacific? Japanese victories over the Germans stirred the Empire of the Rising Sun into future disaster.

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Actualy I agree with you because you are contradictoring your self.

The problem IS that most Islamic coutries, like saudi arabia, Iran do not have a real leader, like Jordan, Tunisia, Marocco, Turkey.........

The problem is NOT Islam in itself, or Jihad or Quran.

In many of those Leaderless Islamic countries we have either a corrput regime ( Saudi Arabia ) or a primitive and uneducated one ( Iran and Afgahanistans Taliban )

But, why didn't you finish the comparison? ;)

Yeah, the problem is Islam, Jihad and the Koran. Without them, they wouldn't be fighting for their God and commiting such horrible deeds against fellow humans.

Comparison? I wasn't comparing... I was speaking my opinion. As for Jordan, Tunisia, Morocco and Turkey as you so kindly pointed out still have problems with terrorists and the views of Islam in society. Morocco is really the only one that has made a degree of progress to freedoms of women in that list and rights but not without a lot of Muslims and their Clerics severly ticked off because it's against Islam. It's the breaking down of Islam in Morocco and I couldn't be happier.

The leaderless Muslims are going their own way and properly using the Koran to justify their actions while also finding new leaders to follow. They are following the Koran and Allah is jumping with joy at the sight of infidel blood in the streets.

Perhaps, if Muslims want to be accepted in the 2006 era they should denouce the Koran with that they'll break away from the culture of hatred. :yes:

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If Japan was an allied nation in World War One, the USA sure did not see much of them. By early 1915, Japan had taken all the German islands and bases in China it could get its hand on. And earned a spot at the peace treaty table to devide up any remaining spoils. Then Japan sat out the rest of the war. The States not becoming involved in WW-I until April 1917.

Edited by Birmingham
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Yeah, the problem is Islam, Jihad and the Koran. Without them, they wouldn't be fighting for their God and commiting such horrible deeds against fellow humans.

Comparison? I wasn't comparing... I was speaking my opinion. As for Jordan, Tunisia, Morocco and Turkey as you so kindly pointed out still have problems with terrorists and the views of Islam in society. Morocco is really the only one that has made a degree of progress to freedoms of women in that list and rights but not without a lot of Muslims and their Clerics severly ticked off because it's against Islam. It's the breaking down of Islam in Morocco and I couldn't be happier.

The leaderless Muslims are going their own way and properly using the Koran to justify their actions while also finding new leaders to follow. They are following the Koran and Allah is jumping with joy at the sight of infidel blood in the streets.

Perhaps, if Muslims want to be accepted in the 2006 era they should denouce the Koran with that they'll break away from the culture of hatred. :yes:

No, the problem is not the Quran but radicals and fasihsts like yourself. :P

And NO, I do not hate anybody and I will never give up mine religion either.

I DO NOT ASK YOU TO DENOUNCE YOUR RELIGION so do not ask me again do do that.

As I said, some of you are very good in this tactic. Assault and bully, then run away crying mommy mommy.

That is what you are doing right now Kratos. Why? What did I do to you, besides being a moslem?

I did not treathen you, I do not mention your religion in a way you mention mine, I do not talk bad about your saints. So why is it that you continue attacking me?

This is realy getting personel, Kratos.

I told you once and write it behind your ears, we, moslems bad or good, moderate or radical, practising or not, we have one thing in common.

We will NEVER denounce Islam. Chock on it.

Esselamu Alejkum. Peace be with you, my friend.

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No, the problem is not the Quran but radicals and fasihsts like yourself. :P

And NO, I do not hate anybody and I will never give up mine religion either.

I DO NOT ASK YOU TO DENOUNCE YOUR RELIGION so do not ask me again do do that.

I'm scarred. :rolleyes: It's a shame that the Koran justifies the actions of terrorists but it's not the problem? Odd.

Well your holy book does actually look for me to covert or die - Some nice choices laid out for me. :innocent:

As I said, some of you are very good in this tactic. Assault and bully, then run away crying mommy mommy.

That is what you are doing right now Kratos. Why? What did I do to you, besides being a moslem?

I did not treathen you, I do not mention your religion in a way you mention mine, I do not talk bad about your saints. So why is it that you continue attacking me?

This is realy getting personel, Kratos.

I told you once and write it behind your ears, we, moslems bad or good, moderate or radical, practising or not, we have one thing in common.

We will NEVER denounce Islam. Chock on it.

Esselamu Alejkum. Peace be with you, my friend.

When do I run? ;) I only use the facts at hand. If you don't like the evils of your religion, well then I suggest you convert or denouce. I've yet to go running from addressing Islam. Other people that have bravely spoken out have had many deaths threats and have been savagely killed just for speaking up! Yeah... But I'm the bully? :rolleyes:

I don't believe in Saints... I'm not a Christian. :rolleyes: Though your holy book threatens me and speaks ill of my beliefs. :yes: You cannot deny that.

I'll never let up on the evils of Islam. Islam justifies terrorists that kill innocent people for no reason but for a silly religion. That is something I do not look kindly on nor accept.

Your own holy book calls for these things and yet you defend them... Why?

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What is the world coming to?

God Help Us.

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What is the world coming to?

God Help Us.

The poo is gonna hit the fan one of these days. I'd give it 25 years or so. The two societies are incompatable at the present. I really don't know how the west is going to capitulate to appease the more traditional (as opposed to the moderate such as Odas here) muslim considering that western society is one of openness and traditional islamic societies are one more on control and social guidelines. It seems that hard-core Islamicists round-the-world just can't handle the openness without taking some offense: other religions (or worse yet-athiests), freedom of the press, alcohol, bikinis, womans rights, rights of consenting adults to have sex without being beheaded, etc....

Moderate muslims need to break from these guys the same way Martin Luther split away from the Catholic Church.

Imagine wahabi Islam with a nuclear warhead... :(

It gets worse: They'll probably have one soon.

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I heard the european terrorist problem got cleaned up?... <_<

This is what has happened mostly with the IRA. After 9/11 america lost its taste for anything that smacked of terrorism, and so almost all ira funds ran dry to continue their bombings . Then the irony, the usa goes to the uk for anti terrorism advise . And irony upon irony , the british are the usa best ally even after decades of usa sponsored terrorism, it is a strange world we live in.

Edited by Rahl
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The poo is gonna hit the fan one of these days. I'd give it 25 years or so. The two societies are incompatable at the present. I really don't know how the west is going to capitulate to appease the more traditional (as opposed to the moderate such as Odas here) muslim considering that western society is one of openness and traditional islamic societies are one more on control and social guidelines. It seems that hard-core Islamicists round-the-world just can't handle the openness without taking some offense: other religions (or worse yet-athiests), freedom of the press, alcohol, bikinis, womans rights, rights of consenting adults to have sex without being beheaded, etc....

Moderate muslims need to break from these guys the same way Martin Luther split away from the Catholic Church.

Imagine wahabi Islam with a nuclear warhead... :(

It gets worse: They'll probably have one soon.

Unfortunately, Pinky, you are right. Something bad could happen.

Also, I not only consider my self a moderate moslem, I am one.

My own culture is the West-European culture. I very much dislike not only the Islamic radicals but any radical view from anybody.

I believe in a free sociaty, for equel rights for everybody not matter what gender, skinncollor or sexual prference ( excluding child molesterers, this is when I turn radical ).

But that does not minimize the fact that I am a moslem. And there are many many moslems like me out there.

But, views like Kratos' views wich are radical and fashisoid put all moslem in the same bucket. And if moderate moslems one day turn radical because of radicals like Kratos, then he should not complain.

Martin Luther King split away from the Church, but he was still after that a Christian.

I do not agree with everything what is in the Quran, but I am still a moslem.

There is absolutely no religion or their followers who did not sometimes in history began killings in the name of God. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are frontrunners.

But can we say that all Jews, Christians or Moslems are bad because of that?

We can. But only if our views are in the same way radical.

Who among us is without sinn......................

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Odas , my friend , a century or two ago , it would be the english or french you had to deal with , these days it is the americans . While europe had hundreds of years of diplomacy with the muslim nations to seek the best middle road for both cultures.. usa still does not have that as yet , they are brash and arrogant we know and they are still learning to be a sublime culure that can assimilate the cultures of the world without feeling it to be a threat , but it is early days for them , but it is true they do not have the cultural etiquette or finesse to deal with many nations other than on a military level , but hopefully, in time , they will strive to learn too and no longer be a nation in isolation and our so called superiors.

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