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Europe soon to be attacked by nukes and...


Shinedown

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I'm scarred. :rolleyes: It's a shame that the Koran justifies the actions of terrorists but it's not the problem? Odd.

Well your holy book does actually look for me to covert or die - Some nice choices laid out for me. :innocent:

When do I run? ;) I only use the facts at hand. If you don't like the evils of your religion, well then I suggest you convert or denouce. I've yet to go running from addressing Islam. Other people that have bravely spoken out have had many deaths threats and have been savagely killed just for speaking up! Yeah... But I'm the bully? :rolleyes:

I don't believe in Saints... I'm not a Christian. :rolleyes: Though your holy book threatens me and speaks ill of my beliefs. :yes: You cannot deny that.

I'll never let up on the evils of Islam. Islam justifies terrorists that kill innocent people for no reason but for a silly religion. That is something I do not look kindly on nor accept.

Your own holy book calls for these things and yet you defend them... Why?

Kratos, if Islam was 'evil', they wouldn't constitute so much of the world's population and so the same for the many adherents to the Christian tradition. The texts of both religions leave ample room for 'interpretably justifiably' terrorism, IED's and smart bombs alike, yet they are both, in essence, peaceful attempts at disciplining frail human minds.

What we should all awaken to is the leverage of fanatics when presented with open texts that only give fanciful 'closure' to the mystery of sentient existence.

Until then you are the Bill O'Reilly of this forum, no compliment intended.

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But, views like Kratos' views wich are radical and fashisoid put all moslem in the same bucket. And if moderate moslems one day turn radical because of radicals like Kratos, then he should not complain.

So, you're telling me that my reading of the Koran is the source of my being a radical against Islam? :w00t: You're dang right! The Koran is a hate filled book for those outside the faith :yes: Personally, I like to be alive and with my head where it is right now.

The Koran states these things and yet you keep on defending it. You couldn't even bother to respond to my post but try and take a quick jab at me proxy from Pinky's reply. Yet, you're the one saying I'm running away crying to mommy. Look in the mirror buddy. You see my posts as blunt truths and you don't want to accept the facts.

Kratos, if Islam was 'evil', they wouldn't constitute so much of the world's population and so the same for the many adherents to the Christian tradition. The texts of both religions leave ample room for 'interpretably justifiably' terrorism, IED's and smart bombs alike, yet they are both, in essence, peaceful attempts at disciplining frail human minds.

What we should all awaken to is the leverage of fanatics when presented with open texts that only give fanciful 'closure' to the mystery of sentient existence.

Yeah... That must make the Koran's hate filled verses not there because there are over a billion people that follow it. Nice logic. :rolleyes:

You don't have to interprete the Koran, it flat out tells you to fight and kill. :yes: The Christians don't have that... Their terrorists will never be backed up by the bible. The Islamic terrorists have the Koran behind them all the way.

Until then you are the Bill O'Reilly of this forum, no compliment intended.

I don't recall Bill O'Reilly also poking at Christians. :innocent: Get bent.

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I'm scarred. :rolleyes: It's a shame that the Koran justifies the actions of terrorists but it's not the problem? Odd.

Well your holy book does actually look for me to covert or die - Some nice choices laid out for me. :innocent:

When do I run? ;) I only use the facts at hand. If you don't like the evils of your religion, well then I suggest you convert or denouce. I've yet to go running from addressing Islam. Other people that have bravely spoken out have had many deaths threats and have been savagely killed just for speaking up! Yeah... But I'm the bully? :rolleyes:

I don't believe in Saints... I'm not a Christian. :rolleyes: Though your holy book threatens me and speaks ill of my beliefs. :yes: You cannot deny that.

I'll never let up on the evils of Islam. Islam justifies terrorists that kill innocent people for no reason but for a silly religion. That is something I do not look kindly on nor accept.

Your own holy book calls for these things and yet you defend them... Why?

No response? Here it is.

Islam does not justifie terrorists. Show us where this is stated. But it does justifie the fight against enemies and the right of selfdefence. :P

You have been proved wrong by many UM members that the Christian bible does not call for killing, but you never replied to those posts, runner. :P

I do not defened what is in the Quran, I defend my right to be a moslem. :P

If you do not like it, it is your problem, not mine, sweetcheeks. :P

Hugs and Kisses. ;):D:wub::wub:

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No response? Here it is.

Islam does not justifie terrorists. Show us where this is stated. But it does justifie the fight against enemies and the right of selfdefence. :P

Jihad isn't always in self-defense. There are other kinds of jihads as I've stated in the past that you choose to ignore. :innocent:

156. O ye who believe! Be not like the Unbelievers, who say of their brethren, when they are travelling through the Earth or engaged in fighting: "If they had stayed with us, they would not have died, or been slain." This that Allah may make it a cause of sighs and regrets in their hearts. It is Allah that gives Life and Death, and Allah sees well all that ye do.

157. And if ye are slain, or die, in the way of Allah, forgiveness and mercy from Allah are far better than all they could amass.

158. And if ye die, or are slain, Lo! it is unto Allah that ye are brought together.

159. It is part of the Mercy of Allah that thou dost deal gently with them Wert thou severe or harsh-hearted, they would have broken away from about thee: so pass over (Their faults), and ask for ((Allah)'s) forgiveness for them; and consult them in affairs (of moment). Then, when thou hast Taken a decision put thy trust in Allah. For Allah loves those who put their trust (in Him).

160. If Allah helps you, none can overcome you: If He forsakes you, who is there, after that, that can help you? in Allah, then, Let believers put their trust.

161. No prophet could (ever) be false to his trust. If any person is so false, He shall, on the Day of Judgment, restore what he misappropriated; then shall every soul receive its due,- whatever it earned,- and none shall be dealt with unjustly.

162. Is the man who follows the good pleasure of Allah Like the man who draws on himself the wrath of Allah, and whose abode is in Hell?- A woeful refuge!

163. They are in varying gardens in the sight of Allah, and Allah sees well all that they do.

164. Allah did confer a great favour on the believers when He sent among them an apostle from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs of Allah, sanctifying them, and instructing them in Scripture and Wisdom, while, before that, they had been in manifest error.

165. What! When a single disaster smites you, although ye smote (your enemies) with one twice as great, do ye say?- "Whence is this?" Say (to them): "It is from yourselves: For Allah hath power over all things."

166. What ye suffered on the day the two armies Met, was with the leave of Allah, in order that He might test the believers,-

167. And the Hypocrites also. These were told: "Come, fight in the way of Allah, or (at least) drive (The foe from your city)." They said: "Had we known how to fight, we should certainly have followed you." They were that day nearer to Unbelief than to Faith, saying with their lips what was not in their hearts but Allah hath full knowledge of all they conceal.

168. (They are) the ones that say, (of their brethren slain), while they themselves sit (at ease): "If only they had listened to us they would not have been slain." Say: "Avert death from your own selves, if ye speak the truth."

-Surah 3

76. Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan.

77. Hast thou not turned Thy vision to those who were told to hold back their hands (from fight) but establish regular prayers and spend in regular charity? When (at length) the order for fighting was issued to them, behold! a section of them feared men as - or even more than - they should have feared Allah. They said: "Our Lord! Why hast Thou ordered us to fight? Wouldst Thou not Grant us respite to our (natural) term, near (enough)?" Say: "Short is the enjoyment of this world: the Hereafter is the best for those who do right: Never will ye be dealt with unjustly in the very least!

78. "Wherever ye are, death will find you out, even if ye are in towers built up strong and high!" If some good befalls them, they say, "This is from Allah.; but if evil, they say, "This is from thee" (O Prophet). Say: "All things are from Allah." But what hath come to these people, that they fail to understand a single fact?

79. Whatever good, (O man!) happens to thee, is from Allah. but whatever evil happens to thee, is from thy (own) soul. and We have sent thee as an apostle to (instruct) mankind. And enough is Allah for a witness.

80. He who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah. But if any turn away, We have not sent thee to watch over their (evil deeds).

81. They have "Obedience" on their lips; but when they leave thee, a section of them Meditate all night on things very different from what thou tellest them. But Allah records their nightly (plots): So keep clear of them, and put thy trust in Allah, and enough is Allah as a disposer of affairs.

82. Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy.

83. When there comes to them some matter touching (Public) safety or fear, they divulge it. If they had only referred it to the Messenger, or to those charged with authority among them, the proper investigators would have Tested it from them (direct). Were it not for the Grace and Mercy of Allah unto you, all but a few of you would have fallen into the clutches of Satan.

84. Then fight in Allah.s cause - Thou art held responsible only for thyself - and rouse the believers. It may be that Allah will restrain the fury of the Unbelievers; for Allah is the strongest in might and in punishment.

85. Whoever recommends and helps a good cause becomes a partner therein: And whoever recommends and helps an evil cause, shares in its burden: And Allah hath power over all things.

86. When a (courteous) greeting is offered you, meet it with a greeting still more courteous, or (at least) of equal courtesy. Allah takes careful account of all things.

87. Allah. There is no god but He: of a surety He will gather you together against the Day of Judgment, about which there is no doubt. And whose word can be truer than Allah.s?

88. Why should ye be divided into two parties about the Hypocrites? Allah hath upset them for their (evil) deeds. Would ye guide those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way.

89. They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-

90. Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them).

91. Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: Every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto: if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them: In their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them.

92. Never should a believer kill a believer; but (If it so happens) by mistake, (Compensation is due): If one (so) kills a believer, it is ordained that he should free a believing slave, and pay compensation to the deceased's family, unless they remit it freely. If the deceased belonged to a people at war with you, and he was a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (Is enough). If he belonged to a people with whom ye have treaty of Mutual alliance, compensation should be paid to his family, and a believing slave be freed. For those who find this beyond their means, (is prescribed) a fast for two months running: by way of repentance to Allah. for Allah hath all knowledge and all wisdom.

93. If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (For ever): And the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him.

94. O ye who believe! When ye go abroad in the cause of Allah, investigate carefully, and say not to any one who offers you a salutation: "Thou art none of a believer!" Coveting the perishable goods of this life: with Allah are profits and spoils abundant. Even thus were ye yourselves before, till Allah conferred on you His favours: Therefore carefully investigate. For Allah is well aware of all that ye do.

95. Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-

96. Ranks specially bestowed by Him, and Forgiveness and Mercy. For Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

97. When angels take the souls of those who die in sin against their souls, they say: "In what (plight) Were ye?" They reply: "Weak and oppressed Were we in the earth." They say: "Was not the earth of Allah spacious enough for you to move yourselves away (From evil)?" Such men will find their abode in Hell,- What an evil refuge! -

98. Except those who are (really) weak and oppressed - men, women, and children - who have no means in their power, nor (a guide-post) to their way.

99. For these, there is hope that Allah will forgive: For Allah doth blot out (sins) and forgive again and again.

100. He who forsakes his home in the cause of Allah, finds in the earth Many a refuge, wide and spacious: Should he die as a refugee from home for Allah and His Messenger, His reward becomes due and sure with Allah. And Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

101. When ye travel through the earth, there is no blame on you if ye shorten your prayers, for fear the Unbelievers May attack you: For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies.

102. When thou (O Messenger. art with them, and standest to lead them in prayer, Let one party of them stand up (in prayer) with thee, Taking their arms with them: When they finish their prostrations, let them Take their position in the rear. And let the other party come up which hath not yet prayed - and let them pray with thee, Taking all precaution, and bearing arms: the Unbelievers wish, if ye were negligent of your arms and your baggage, to assault you in a single rush. But there is no blame on you if ye put away your arms because of the inconvenience of rain or because ye are ill; but take (every) precaution for yourselves. For the Unbelievers Allah hath prepared a humiliating punishment.

103. When ye pass (Congregational) prayers, celebrate Allah.s praises, standing, sitting down, or lying down on your sides; but when ye are free from danger, set up Regular Prayers: For such prayers are enjoined on believers at stated times.

104. And slacken not in following up the enemy: If ye are suffering hardships, they are suffering similar hardships; but ye have Hope from Allah, while they have none. And Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.

105. We have sent down to thee the Book in truth, that thou mightest judge between men, as guided by Allah. so be not (used) as an advocate by those who betray their trust;

106. But seek the forgiveness of Allah. for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

-Surah 4

1. A (declaration) of immunity from Allah and His Messenger, to those of the Pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances:-

2. Go ye, then, for four months, backwards and forwards, (as ye will), throughout the land, but know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah (by your falsehood) but that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him.

3. And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.

4. (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.

5. But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

6. If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.

7. How can there be a league, before Allah and His Messenger, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for Allah doth love the righteous.

8. How (can there be such a league), seeing that if they get an advantage over you, they respect not in you the ties either of kinship or of covenant? With (fair words from) their mouths they entice you, but their hearts are averse from you; and most of them are rebellious and wicked.

9. The Signs of Allah have they sold for a miserable price, and (many) have they hindered from His way: evil indeed are the deeds they have done.

10. In a Believer they respect not the ties either of kinship or of covenant! It is they who have transgressed all bounds.

11. But (even so), if they repent, establish regular prayers, and practise regular charity,- they are your brethren in Faith: (thus) do We explain the Signs in detail, for those who understand.

12. But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and taunt you for your Faith,- fight ye the chiefs of Unfaith: for their oaths are nothing to them: that thus they may be restrained.

13. Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Messenger, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them? Nay, it is Allah Whom ye should more justly fear, if ye believe!

14. Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers,

15. And still the indignation of their hearts. For Allah will turn (in mercy) to whom He will; and Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

16. Or think ye that ye shall be abandoned, as though Allah did not know those among you who strive with might and main, and take none for friends and protectors except Allah, His Messenger, and the (community of) Believers? But Allah is well- acquainted with (all) that ye do.

17. It is not for such as join gods with Allah, to visit or maintain the mosques of Allah while they witness against their own souls to infidelity. The works of such bear no fruit: In Fire shall they dwell.

18. The mosques of Allah shall be visited and maintained by such as believe in Allah and the Last Day, establish regular prayers, and practise regular charity, and fear none (at all) except Allah. It is they who are expected to be on true guidance.

19. Do ye make the giving of drink to pilgrims, or the maintenance of the Sacred Mosque, equal to (the pious service of) those who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and strive with might and main in the cause of Allah. They are not comparable in the sight of Allah. and Allah guides not those who do wrong.

20. Those who believe, and suffer exile and strive with might and main, in Allah.s cause, with their goods and their persons, have the highest rank in the sight of Allah. they are the people who will achieve (salvation).

21. Their Lord doth give them glad tidings of a Mercy from Himself, of His good pleasure, and of gardens for them, wherein are delights that endure:

22. They will dwell therein for ever. Verily in Allah.s presence is a reward, the greatest (of all).

23. O ye who believe! take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love infidelity above Faith: if any of you do so, they do wrong.

24. Say: If it be that your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your mates, or your kindred; the wealth that ye have gained; the commerce in which ye fear a decline: or the dwellings in which ye delight - are dearer to you than Allah, or His Messenger, or the striving in His cause;- then wait until Allah brings about His decision: and Allah guides not the rebellious.

25. Assuredly Allah did help you in many battle-fields and on the day of Hunain: Behold! your great numbers elated you, but they availed you naught: the land, for all that it is wide, did constrain you, and ye turned back in retreat.

26. But Allah did pour His calm on the Messenger and on the Believers, and sent down forces which ye saw not: He punished the Unbelievers; thus doth He reward those without Faith.

27. Again will Allah, after this, turn (in mercy) to whom He will: for Allah is Oft- forgiving, Most Merciful.

28. O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

29. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

30. The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah.s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

31. They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah. there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).

32. Fain would they extinguish Allah.s light with their mouths, but Allah will not allow but that His light should be perfected, even though the Unbelievers may detest (it).

33. It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).

34. O ye who believe! there are indeed many among the priests and anchorites, who in Falsehood devour the substance of men and hinder (them) from the way of Allah. And there are those who bury gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah. announce unto them a most grievous penalty-

35. On the Day when heat will be produced out of that (wealth) in the fire of Hell, and with it will be branded their foreheads, their flanks, and their backs - "This is the (treasure) which ye buried for yourselves: taste ye, then, the (treasures) ye buried!"

36. The number of months in the sight of Allah is twelve (in a year)- so ordained by Him the day He created the heavens and the earth; of them four are sacred: that is the straight usage. So wrong not yourselves therein, and fight the Pagans all together as they fight you all together. But know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.

37. Verily the transposing (of a prohibited month) is an addition to Unbelief: the Unbelievers are led to wrong thereby: for they make it lawful one year, and forbidden another year, in order to adjust the number of months forbidden by Allah and make such forbidden ones lawful. The evil of their course seems pleasing to them. But Allah guideth not those who reject Faith.

38. O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter.

39. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For Allah hath power over all things.

40. If ye help not (your leader), (it is no matter): for Allah did indeed help him, when the Unbelievers drove him out: he had no more than one companion; they two were in the cave, and he said to his companion, "Have no fear, for Allah is with us": then Allah sent down His peace upon him, and strengthened him with forces which ye saw not, and humbled to the depths the word of the Unbelievers. But the word of Allah is exalted to the heights: for Allah is Exalted in might, Wise.

41. Go ye forth, (whether equipped) lightly or heavily, and strive and struggle, with your goods and your persons, in the cause of Allah. That is best for you, if ye (but) knew.

42. If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them. They would indeed swear by Allah, "If we only could, we should certainly have come out with you": They would destroy their own souls; for Allah doth know that they are certainly lying.

43. Allah give thee grace! why didst thou grant them until those who told the truth were seen by thee in a clear light, and thou hadst proved the liars?

44. Those who believe in Allah and the Last Day ask thee for no exemption from fighting with their goods and persons. And Allah knoweth well those who do their duty.

45. Only those ask thee for exemption who believe not in Allah and the Last Day, and whose hearts are in doubt, so that they are tossed in their doubts to and fro.

46. If they had intended to come out, they would certainly have made some preparation therefor; but Allah was averse to their being sent forth; so He made them lag behind, and they were told, "Sit ye among those who sit (inactive)."

47. If they had come out with you, they would not have added to your (strength) but only (made for) disorder, hurrying to and fro in your midst and sowing sedition among you, and there would have been some among you who would have listened to them. But Allah knoweth well those who do wrong.

48. Indeed they had plotted sedition before, and upset matters for thee, until,- the Truth arrived, and the Decree of Allah became manifest much to their disgust.

49. Among them is (many) a man who says: "Grant me exemption and draw me not into trial." Have they not fallen into trial already? and indeed Hell surrounds the Unbelievers (on all sides).

50. If good befalls thee, it grieves them; but if a misfortune befalls thee, they say, "We took indeed our precautions beforehand," and they turn away rejoicing.

51. Say: "Nothing will happen to us except what Allah has decreed for us: He is our protector": and on Allah let the Believers put their trust.

52. Say: "Can you expect for us (any fate) other than one of two glorious things- (Martyrdom or victory)? But we can expect for you either that Allah will send his punishment from Himself, or by our hands. So wait (expectant); we too will wait with you."

53. Say: "Spend (for the cause) willingly or unwillingly: not from you will it be accepted: for ye are indeed a people rebellious and wicked."

54. The only reasons why their contributions are not accepted are: that they reject Allah and His Messenger. that they come to prayer without earnestness; and that they offer contributions unwillingly.

55. Let not their wealth nor their (following in) sons dazzle thee: in reality Allah.s plan is to punish them with these things in this life, and that their souls may perish in their (very) denial of Allah.

56. They swear by Allah that they are indeed of you; but they are not of you: yet they are afraid (to appear in their true colours).

57. If they could find a place to flee to, or caves, or a place of concealment, they would turn straightaway thereto, with an obstinate rush.

58. And among them are men who slander thee in the matter of (the distribution of) the alms: if they are given part thereof, they are pleased, but if not, behold! they are indignant!

59. If only they had been content with what Allah and His Messenger gave them, and had said, "Sufficient unto us is Allah. Allah and His Messenger will soon give us of His bounty: to Allah do we turn our hopes!" (that would have been the right course).

60. Alms are for the poor and the needy, and those employed to administer the (funds); for those whose hearts have been (recently) reconciled (to Truth); for those in bondage and in debt; in the cause of Allah. and for the wayfarer: (thus is it) ordained by Allah, and Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.

61. Among them are men who molest the Prophet and say, "He is (all) ear." Say, "He listens to what is best for you: he believes in Allah, has faith in the Believers, and is a Mercy to those of you who believe." But those who molest the Messenger will have a grievous penalty.

62. To you they swear by Allah. In order to please you: But it is more fitting that they should please Allah and His Messenger, if they are Believers.

63. Know they not that for those who oppose Allah and His Messenger, is the Fire of Hell?- wherein they shall dwell. That is the supreme disgrace.

64. The Hypocrites are afraid lest a Sura should be sent down about them, showing them what is (really passing) in their hearts. Say: "Mock ye! But verily Allah will bring to light all that ye fear (should be revealed).

65. If thou dost question them, they declare (with emphasis): "We were only talking idly and in play." Say: "Was it at Allah, and His Signs, and His Messenger, that ye were mocking?"

66. Make ye no excuses: ye have rejected Faith after ye had accepted it. If We pardon some of you, We will punish others amongst you, for that they are in sin.

67. The Hypocrites, men and women, (have an understanding) with each other: They enjoin evil, and forbid what is just, and are close with their hands. They have forgotten Allah. so He hath forgotten them. Verily the Hypocrites are rebellious and perverse.

68. Allah hath promised the Hypocrites men and women, and the rejecters, of Faith, the fire of Hell: Therein shall they dwell: Sufficient is it for them: for them is the curse of Allah, and an enduring punishment,-

69. As in the case of those before you: they were mightier than you in power, and more flourishing in wealth and children. They had their enjoyment of their portion: and ye have of yours, as did those before you; and ye indulge in idle talk as they did. They!- their work are fruitless in this world and in the Hereafter, and they will lose (all spiritual good).

70. Hath not the story reached them of those before them?- the People of Noah, and 'Ad, and Thamud; the People of Abraham, the men of Midian, and the cities overthrown. To them came their apostles with clear signs. It is not Allah Who wrongs them, but they wrong their own souls.

71. The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another: they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil: they observe regular prayers, practise regular charity, and obey Allah and His Messenger. On them will Allah pour His mercy: for Allah is Exalted in power, Wise.

72. Allah hath promised to Believers, men and women, gardens under which rivers flow, to dwell therein, and beautiful mansions in gardens of everlasting bliss. But the greatest bliss is the good pleasure of Allah. that is the supreme felicity.

73. O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.

74. They swear by Allah that they said nothing (evil), but indeed they uttered blasphemy, and they did it after accepting Islam; and they meditated a plot which they were unable to carry out: this revenge of theirs was (their) only return for the bounty with which Allah and His Messenger had enriched them! If they repent, it will be best for them; but if they turn back (to their evil ways), Allah will punish them with a grievous penalty in this life and in the Hereafter: They shall have none on earth to protect or help them.

75. Amongst them are men who made a covenant with Allah, that if He bestowed on them of His bounty, they would give (largely) in charity, and be truly amongst those who are righteous.

76. But when He did bestow of His bounty, they became covetous, and turned back (from their covenant), averse (from its fulfilment).

77. So He hath put as a consequence hypocrisy into their hearts, (to last) till the Day, whereon they shall meet Him: because they broke their covenant with Allah, and because they lied (again and again).

78. Know they not that Allah doth know their secret (thoughts) and their secret counsels, and that Allah knoweth well all things unseen?

79. Those who slander such of the believers as give themselves freely to (deeds of) charity, as well as such as can find nothing to give except the fruits of their labour,- and throw ridicule on them,- Allah will throw back their ridicule on them: and they shall have a grievous penalty.

80. Whether thou ask for their forgiveness, or not, (their sin is unforgivable): if thou ask seventy times for their forgiveness, Allah will not forgive them: because they have rejected Allah and His Messenger. and Allah guideth not those who are perversely rebellious.

81. Those who were left behind (in the Tabuk expedition) rejoiced in their inaction behind the back of the Messenger of Allah. they hated to strive and fight, with their goods and their persons, in the cause of Allah. they said, "Go not forth in the heat." Say, "The fire of Hell is fiercer in heat." If only they could understand!

82. Let them laugh a little: much will they weep: a recompense for the (evil) that they do.

83. If, then, Allah bring thee back to any of them, and they ask thy permission to come out (with thee), say: "Never shall ye come out with me, nor fight an enemy with me: for ye preferred to sit inactive on the first occasion: Then sit ye (now) with those who lag behind."

84. Nor do thou ever pray for any of them that dies, nor stand at his grave; for they rejected Allah and His Messenger, and died in a state of perverse rebellion.

85. Nor let their wealth nor their (following in) sons dazzle thee: Allah.s plan is to punish them with these things in this world, and that their souls may perish in their (very) denial of Allah.

86. When a Sura comes down, enjoining them to believe in Allah and to strive and fight along with His Messenger, those with wealth and influence among them ask thee for exemption, and say: "Leave us (behind): we would be with those who sit (at home)."

87. They prefer to be with (the women), who remain behind (at home): their hearts are sealed and so they understand not.

88. But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper.

89. Allah hath prepared for them gardens under which rivers flow, to dwell therein: that is the supreme felicity.

90. And there were, among the desert Arabs (also), men who made excuses and came to claim exemption; and those who were false to Allah and His Messenger (merely) sat inactive. Soon will a grievous penalty seize the Unbelievers among them.

91. There is no blame on those who are infirm, or ill, or who find no resources to spend (on the cause), if they are sincere (in duty) to Allah and His Messenger. no ground (of complaint) can there be against such as do right: and Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

92. Nor (is there blame) on those who came to thee to be provided with mounts, and when thou saidst, "I can find no mounts for you," they turned back, their eyes streaming with tears of grief that they had no resources wherewith to provide the expenses.

93. The ground (of complaint) is against such as claim exemption while they are rich. They prefer to stay with the (women) who remain behind: Allah hath sealed their hearts; so they know not (What they miss).

94. They will present their excuses to you when ye return to them. Say thou: "Present no excuses: we shall not believe you: Allah hath already informed us of the true state of matters concerning you: It is your actions that Allah and His Messenger will observe: in the end will ye be brought back to Him Who knoweth what is hidden and what is open: then will He show you the truth of all that ye did."

95. They will swear to you by Allah, when ye return to them, that ye may leave them alone. So leave them alone: For they are an abomination, and Hell is their dwelling-place,-a fitting recompense for the (evil) that they did.

96. They will swear unto you, that ye may be pleased with them but if ye are pleased with them, Allah is not pleased with those who disobey.

97. The Arabs of the desert are the worst in Unbelief and hypocrisy, and most fitted to be in ignorance of the command which Allah hath sent down to His Messenger. But Allah is All-knowing, All-Wise.

98. Some of the desert Arabs look upon their payments as a fine, and watch for disasters for you: on them be the disaster of evil: for Allah is He That heareth and knoweth (all things).

99. But some of the desert Arabs believe in Allah and the Last Day, and look on their payments as pious gifts bringing them nearer to Allah and obtaining the prayers of the Messenger. Aye, indeed they bring them nearer (to Him): soon will Allah admit them to His Mercy: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

100. The vanguard (of Islam)- the first of those who forsook (their homes) and of those who gave them aid, and (also) those who follow them in (all) good deeds,- well- pleased is Allah with them, as are they with Him: for them hath He prepared gardens under which rivers flow, to dwell therein for ever: that is the supreme felicity.

101. Certain of the desert Arabs round about you are hypocrites, as well as (desert Arabs) among the Medina folk: they are obstinate in hypocrisy: thou knowest them not: We know them: twice shall We punish them: and in addition shall they be sent to a grievous penalty.

102. Others (there are who) have acknowledged their wrong-doings: they have mixed an act that was good with another that was evil. Perhaps Allah will turn unto them (in Mercy): for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

103. Of their goods, take alms, that so thou mightest purify and sanctify them; and pray on their behalf. Verily thy prayers are a source of security for them: And Allah is One Who heareth and knoweth.

104. Know they not that Allah doth accept repentance from His votaries and receives their gifts of charity, and that Allah is verily He, the Oft-Returning, Most Merciful?

105. And say: "Work (righteousness): Soon will Allah observe your work, and His Messenger, and the Believers: Soon will ye be brought back to the knower of what is hidden and what is open: then will He show you the truth of all that ye did."

106. There are (yet) others, held in suspense for the command of Allah, whether He will punish them, or turn in mercy to them: and Allah is All-Knowing, Wise.

107. And there are those who put up a mosque by way of mischief and infidelity - to disunite the Believers - and in preparation for one who warred against Allah and His Messenger aforetime. They will indeed swear that their intention is nothing but good; But Allah doth declare that they are certainly liars.

108. Never stand thou forth therein. There is a mosque whose foundation was laid from the first day on piety; it is more worthy of the standing forth (for prayer) therein. In it are men who love to be purified; and Allah loveth those who make themselves pure.

109. Which then is best? - he that layeth his foundation on piety to Allah and His good pleasure? - or he that layeth his foundation on an undermined sand-cliff ready to crumble to pieces? and it doth crumble to pieces with him, into the fire of Hell. And Allah guideth not people that do wrong.

110. The foundation of those who so build is never free from suspicion and shakiness in their hearts, until their hearts are cut to pieces. And Allah is All-Knowing, Wise.

111. Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah. then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

112. Those that turn (to Allah. in repentance; that serve Him, and praise Him; that wander in devotion to the cause of Allah,: that bow down and prostrate themselves in prayer; that enjoin good and forbid evil; and observe the limit set by Allah.- (These do rejoice). So proclaim the glad tidings to the Believers.

113. It is not fitting, for the Prophet and those who believe, that they should pray for forgiveness for Pagans, even though they be of kin, after it is clear to them that they are companions of the Fire.

114. And Abraham prayed for his father's forgiveness only because of a promise he had made to him. But when it became clear to him that he was an enemy to Allah, he dissociated himself from him: for Abraham was most tender-hearted, forbearing.

115. And Allah will not mislead a people after He hath guided them, in order that He may make clear to them what to fear (and avoid)- for Allah hath knowledge of all things.

116. Unto Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth. He giveth life and He taketh it. Except for Him ye have no protector nor helper.

117. Allah turned with favour to the Prophet, the Muhajirs, and the Ansar,- who followed him in a time of distress, after that the hearts of a part of them had nearly swerved (from duty); but He turned to them (also): for He is unto them Most Kind, Most Merciful.

118. (He turned in mercy also) to the three who were left behind; (they felt guilty) to such a degree that the earth seemed constrained to them, for all its spaciousness, and their (very) souls seemed straitened to them,- and they perceived that there is no fleeing from Allah (and no refuge) but to Himself. Then He turned to them, that they might repent: for Allah is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.

119. O ye who believe! Fear Allah and be with those who are true (in word and deed).

120. It was not fitting for the people of Medina and the Bedouin Arabs of the neighbourhood, to refuse to follow Allah.s Messenger, nor to prefer their own lives to his: because nothing could they suffer or do, but was reckoned to their credit as a deed of righteousness,- whether they suffered thirst, or fatigue, or hunger, in the cause of Allah, or trod paths to raise the ire of the Unbelievers, or received any injury whatever from an enemy: for Allah suffereth not the reward to be lost of those who do good;-

121. Nor could they spend anything (for the cause) - small or great- nor cut across a valley, but the deed is inscribed to their credit: that Allah may requite their deed with the best (possible reward).

122. Nor should the Believers all go forth together: if a contingent from every expedition remained behind, they could devote themselves to studies in religion, and admonish the people when they return to them,- that thus they (may learn) to guard themselves (against evil).

123. O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

124. Whenever there cometh down a sura, some of them say: "Which of you has had His faith increased by it?" Yea, those who believe,- their faith is increased and they do rejoice.

125. But those in whose hearts is a disease,- it will add doubt to their doubt, and they will die in a state of Unbelief.

126. See they not that they are tried every year once or twice? Yet they turn not in repentance, and they take no heed.

127. Whenever there cometh down a Sura, they look at each other, (saying), "Doth anyone see you?" Then they turn aside: Allah hath turned their hearts (from the light); for they are a people that understand not.

128. Now hath come unto you an Messenger from amongst yourselves: it grieves him that ye should perish: ardently anxious is he over you: to the Believers is he most kind and merciful.

129. But if they turn away, Say: "(Allah) sufficeth me: there is no god but He: On Him is my trust,- He the Lord of the Throne (of Glory) Supreme!"

-Surah 9

You have been proved wrong by many UM members that the Christian bible does not call for killing, but you never replied to those posts, runner. :P

Nope, I replied hate to break it to you. :yes: Not my fault they can't find a command from god in the bible. :innocent:

But hey... I'm sure you don't mind the least bit about Christians...

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51) :hmm:

I do not defened what is in the Quran, I defend my right to be a moslem. :P

If you do not like it, it is your problem, not mine, sweetcheeks. :P

Hugs and Kisses. ;):D:wub::wub:

While I defend my right to live and believe what I want without a sword being put to my neck. :tu:

By the way, I'm pretty sure Allah looks down against homosexuals while also I don't swing that way. Maybe if I was really really really really really drunk, I might take you up on your offer and rock your world but... Till then... I'll have to decline.

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Ha hahahhaah.

All of those suras talk about battles and not about terrorism. You missed the point.

Btw. I am not a Homosexual, I was just practising what Jesus told usl :P hahahahahahah

hahahahhaha.

Did I sense some Homophoby in your post? I wonder why. :D:D

Do not worry, man. I wouldn't be able to even drink you pretty.

You are a kind of a guy only a mother can love. :P:D hahahah.

Peace, oh crapp.

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Ha hahahhaah.

All of those suras talk about battles and not about terrorism. You missed the point.

Can you prove anywhere that the koran doesn't say to kill infidels?

Btw. I am not a Homosexual, I was just practising what Jesus told usl :P hahahahahahah

hahahahhaha.

Did I sense some Homophoby in your post? I wonder why. :D:D

Do not worry, man. I wouldn't be able to even drink you pretty.

You are a kind of a guy only a mother can love. :P:D hahahah.

Peace, oh crapp.

Heh, I'm not a homophob. I'm pretty comfortable with my sexuality as I clearly showed.

Meh, you don't need a drink either... I'm naturally pretty. :w00t:

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Can you prove anywhere that the koran doesn't say to kill infidels?

Heh, I'm not a homophob. I'm pretty comfortable with my sexuality as I clearly showed.

Meh, you don't need a drink either... I'm naturally pretty. :w00t:

Hahahahahha. What did you smoke today, man.

Fits good, you are pretty girl, and I am handsome. :D hahaha.

Now back to the first one.

The Quran sais to kill infidels. BUT only in a fair battle. There is a huge difference between terrorism and a battle.

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Damn, Kratos! (Post # 154). You didn't leave anything out, did you? I believe that pretty much sums up the argument about rather Islam allows for terrorist and war! Anyone who actually sits down and reads al the way through that post will deffinately know where the Koran stands on the issue.

By the way, I really don't think that the terrorists would attack Europe with a nuke. If they have one, I think that they would be more likely to either attack a U.S. city or a U.S. base in an ally nation. We are, after all, the "Great Satan", right?

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Hahahahahha. What did you smoke today, man.

Fits good, you are pretty girl, and I am handsome. :D hahaha.

Now back to the first one.

The Quran sais to kill infidels. BUT only in a fair battle. There is a huge difference between terrorism and a battle.

No... I'm a pretty man. There is a difference. ;)

No, it doesn't. It does in the defense jihad but not the offensive jihad. Like I've stated before jihad translated means 'struggle' so there are many kinds of it. You just can't throw up the smoke to the rest because the koran states one and that's all you want people to know.

Damn, Kratos! (Post # 154). You didn't leave anything out, did you? I believe that pretty much sums up the argument about rather Islam allows for terrorist and war! Anyone who actually sits down and reads al the way through that post will deffinately know where the Koran stands on the issue.

By the way, I really don't think that the terrorists would attack Europe with a nuke. If they have one, I think that they would be more likely to either attack a U.S. city or a U.S. base in an ally nation. We are, after all, the "Great Satan", right?

Acutally... I did leave out a good bit. :P I didn't really even intend to post all that but there are more. It's amazing how much you'll find out once you actually stop and skim through the Koran. It's online so it's easy. I haven't read through it all though yet.

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Odas , my friend , a century or two ago , it would be the english or french you had to deal with , these days it is the americans . While europe had hundreds of years of diplomacy with the muslim nations to seek the best middle road for both cultures..

All brag but not much fact. If what you say is true, then why is Britain and France having such a difficult time with the Muslim populations of thier countries? I havent heard of or seen any mass Muslim protest or riots from the Muslim population living here.

usa still does not have that as yet , they are brash and arrogant we know and they are still learning to be a sublime culure that can assimilate the cultures of the world without feeling it to be a threat , but it is early days for them , but it is true they do not have the cultural etiquette or finesse to deal with many nations other than on a military level , but hopefully, in time , they will strive to learn too and no longer be a nation in isolation and our so called superiors.

More sour grapes with a we think we are the worlds emperor spin at the end. Yes, it's very in vouge to be anti-american, we know that and really don't care. It's always been that way for as long as I can remember. And it does'nt take superior intellegence or diplomatic savy to do nothing about anything.

But look at the bright side, if the radical Muslims ever succeed in thier mission to destroy us...... your next.

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And here is the Bible with it's oh so good and tolerant message.

(Only a very very small portion though) Please note the darker prints.

God decides to kill Moses because his son had not yet been circumcised. 4:24-26

God will kill the Egyptian children to show that he puts "a difference between the Egyptians and Israel." 11:7

After God has sufficiently hardened the Pharaoh's heart, he kills all the firstborn Egyptian children. When he was finished "there was not a house where there was not one dead." 12:29

No stranger, foreigner, or uncircumcised person can eat the Passover. 12:43, 45, 48

If you do what God says, he won't send his diseases on you (like he did to the Egyptians). But otherwise.... 15:26

When the people complain to Moses, he tells them they aren't complaining about him, but about God, making them apostates and heretics, and therefore deserve severe punishment. Religious leaders have used this tactic ever since. 16:8

Joshua, with God's approval, kills the Amalekites "with the edge of the sword." 17:13 The Lord will have war with Amalek from generation to generation." 17:14

God favors Israelites "above all people." 19:5

The first commandment ("Thou shalt have no other gods before me.") condemns those who worship any other than the biblical god. 20:3

"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Thousands of innocent women have suffered excruciating deaths because of this verse. 22:18

"He who sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed." If this commandment is obeyed, then the four billion people who do not believe in the biblical god must be killed. 22:20

Don't even mention the names of the other gods. 23:13

Do not allow others to worship a different god. Conquer them and destroy their religious property. 23:24

God promises to "send his fear before the Israelites" and to kill everyone that they encounter when they enter the promised land. 23:27

Stay away from those who worship a different god. 23:32

Don't let any strangers attend your animal sacrifices. 29:33

Whoever puts holy oil on a stranger shall be "cut off from his people." 30:33

Those who break the Sabbath are to be executed. 31:14

Moses burned the golden calf, ground it into powder, and then forced it down the throats of all the people. 32:20

God orders the sons of Levi (Moses, Aaron, and the other members of their tribe that were "on the Lord's side") to kill "every man his neighbor.... And there fell of the people that day about 3000 men." 32:27-28

God drives out the pagan tribes and commands the Israelites to destroy their altars and places of worship. 34:11-14

God, "whose name is Jealous", will not tolerate the worship of any other god. 34:14

Whoever works, or even kindles a fire, on the Sabbath "shall be put to death." 35:2-3

Leviticus

Two of the sons of Aaron "offered strange fire before the Lord" and "there went out fire from the Lord, and devoured them, and they died before the Lord." 10:1-2

God "put the plague of leprosy" into the houses of the Canaanites. 14:34

Homosexual acts are an abomination to God. 18:22 Don't eat anything with blood, observe times, round the corners of your head, mar the corners of your beard, make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, or print any marks on you. 19:26-28

Stay away from wizards and people with familiar spirits. 19:31

Stay away from people with familiar spirits and don't "go a whoring" after them either. 20:6

If a man has sex with another man, kill them both. 20:13 People with "familiar spirits" (witches, fortune tellers, etc.) are to be stoned to death. 20:27

Handicapped people cannot approach the altar of God. They would "profane" it. 21:16-23

No stranger or slave can "eat of the holy thing." 22:10, 13

If a priest's daughter marries "a stranger" she can't eat any holy things. 22:12

Don't do any work on the day of atonement or God will destroy you. 23:29-30

A man curses and blasphemes while disputing with another man. Moses asks God what to do about it. God says that the whole community must stone him to death. "And the children of Israel did as the Lord and Moses commanded." 24:10-23

God describes the torments that he has planned for those who displease him. The usual stuff: plagues, burning fevers that will consume the eyes, etc. but he reserves the worst for the little children. He says "ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it," "I will send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children," and "ye shall eat the flesh of your sons and daughters." 26:16-39

Anyone who blasphemes or curses shall be stoned to death by the entire community. 24:16 Numbers

God shows his hospitality with the admonition: "The stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death." 1:51, 3:10, 3:38

Two of Aaron's sons are killed by God for "offering strange fire before the Lord." 3:4

God tells the people to expel from camp "every leper, every one that hath an issue, and whoever is defiled by the dead." So by God's instructions, the sick are abandoned and left to suffer and die alone. 5:1-4

"And when the people complained, it displeased the Lord: and the Lord heard it." (He had his hearing aid on.) He then burned the complainers alive. That'll teach them. 11:1

"And while the flesh [of the quails] was yet between their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of the Lord was kindled against the people, and the Lord smote the people with a very great plague. "The Bible isn't too clear about what these poor folks did to upset God so much; all it says is that they had "lusted." 11:33

Because of a dispute between Korah and Moses, God has the ground open up and swallow Korah, Dathan, and Abiram "and their wives, and their sons, and their little children." Then, just for the hell of it, God has a fire burn to death 250 "men that offered incense." 16:20-35

After God killed Korah, his family, and 250 innocent bystanders, the people complained saying, "ye have killed the people of the Lord." So God, who doesn't take kindly to criticism, sends a plague on the people. And "they that died in the plague were 14,700." 16:41-50

"And the Lord hearkened to the voice of Israel, and delivered up the Canaanites; and they utterly destroyed them and their cities." This verse demonstrates the power of prayer: If you ask God, he will destroy entire cities for you. 21:3

God delivers the Amorites into Moses' hands. (You're in God hands with Moses.) So Moses does the Christian thing, killing everyone "until their was none left alive." 21:34-35

After the people "commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab," Moses has them all killed. Then God tells Moses to hang their dead bodies up in front of him; God says that this will satisfy him. 25:1-5

When one of the Israelite men brings home a foreign woman, "Phinehas (Aaron's grandson) sees them and throws a spear "through the man .. and the woman through her belly." This act pleases God so much that "the plague was stayed from the children of Israel." But not before 24,000 had died. 25:6-9

For impaling the interracial couple, God rewards Phinehas and his sons with the everlasting priesthood. 25:10-13

God tells Moses how to care for his neighbors by saying: "Vex the Midianites, and smite them." 25:16-17

The ground swallow Korah and his companions and a fire consumes 250 men. 26:10

"And Nadab and Abihu died when they offered strange fire before the Lord." When you go camping avoid making any unusual fires. 26:61

Under God's direction, Moses' army defeats the Midianites. They kill all the adult males, but take the women and children captive. When Moses learns that they left some live, he angrily says: "Have you saved all the women alive? Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." So they went back and did as Moses (and presumably God) instructed, killing everyone except for the virgins. In this way they got 32,000 virgins -- Wow! (Even God gets some of the booty -- including the virgins.) 31:1-54 God killed all the Egyptian firstborn. 33:4

God tells Moses to exterminate the residents of Canaan and destroy all of their religious symbols and possessions. 33:50-52

But if the Israelites don't kill them all, then God will make them pricks in their eyes and thorns in their sides. And he will do unto the Israelites as he planned to do to the inhabitants of Canaan. 33:55-56

Woww. Look what I can do. Just like Kratos. Yeahh.

Hm, so much about the "difference" between Quran, the "evil" and the "good" bible.

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Who needs 'special effects' when we've got religious texts. Funny how varied religions equally produce such vitriolic fervour. Says something about humanity as a collective, doesn't it.

"Smite those who do not bow as we bow (pssst...just don't mention the similarity...our text did but it thinks it got away with it)."

Individuals arise yet keep to yourselves, for it's the only way to preserve individuality...in the ocean of acceptance.

Europe, an Arabic word for 'dark place'?, knows all about it.

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usa still does not have that as yet , they are brash and arrogant we know and they are still learning to be a sublime culure that can assimilate the cultures of the world without feeling it to be a threat , but it is early days for them ,

Considering all of the crap that is going on in France with the muslim riots, you really aren't the one to be throwing stones, telling us that we don't have a clue. :rolleyes:

Edit:Unneccessary comment.

but it is true they do not have the cultural etiquette or finesse to deal with many nations other than on a military level ,

We had enough finesse to pull the Germans out Edit: Unneccessary comment.

There is no need for insults. Please keep this civil. -Lottie

Edited by Lottie
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Who needs 'special effects' when we've got religious texts. Funny how varied religions equally produce such vitriolic fervour. Says something about humanity as a collective, doesn't it.

"Smite those who do not bow as we bow (pssst...just don't mention the similarity...our text did but it thinks it got away with it)."

Individuals arise yet keep to yourselves, for it's the only way to preserve individuality...in the ocean of acceptance.

Europe, an Arabic word for 'dark place'?, knows all about it.

Exactely.

We are very fast to point fingers and at the same time try to hide our bad.

God is the same in the Bible as he is in the Quran.

He is merciful and cruel at the same time.

Whoever denies it is doing it either because he realy does not know the simmilarity or he is doing it out of ignorance.

We all did mistakes in the past, present and we will do mistakes in the future, and we will always blame the other side and "their" God or holly scriptures for that.

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Back to topic?...we made it to the holidays without a terror attack like they promised...like I said at the beginning of the thread...terrorism warnings sell newspapers and tv ads...it's all anti-muslim propaganda and hype... :blink:

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Back to topic?...we made it to the holidays without a terror attack like they promised...like I said at the beginning of the thread...terrorism warnings sell newspapers and tv ads...it's all anti-muslim propaganda and hype... :blink:

Correction - The overall effort against the terrorist got everyone to the Holidays with no terror attack.

Funny how all effort of some is directed to those who try to protect themselves, instead to those who is trying to do the harm. Just can't go against their fellow muslims I guess regardless.

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Woww. Look what I can do. Just like Kratos. Yeahh.

Hm, so much about the "difference" between Quran, the "evil" and the "good" bible.

Yeah... You could do it... wrong. The comparing was suppose to be God commanding believers to kill... You gave me single bible stories and laws made by man. Nice.

What? :blink: Koran & Bible = Evil :yes:

Edited by __Kratos__
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Yeah... You could do it... wrong. The comparing was suppose to be God commanding believers to kill... You gave me single bible stories and laws made by man. Nice.

What? :blink: Koran & Bible = Evil :yes:

The funniest thing is that you did not even read my post and what is written. :no:

You do that all the time.

In the bible God comands to kill homosexuals. Clearly.

God comands to kill woman and children. Clearly.

Quran and Bible=take it or leave it. Neither one is evil both have their downsides.

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The funniest thing is that you did not even read my post and what is written. :no:

You do that all the time.

In the bible God comands to kill homosexuals. Clearly.

God comands to kill woman and children. Clearly.

Quran and Bible=take it or leave it. Neither one is evil both have their downsides.

Oh, I did actually. More like a quick skim. I read at a good speed.

Killing homosexuals - Man's laws. Look at the book it was written in.

As for the women and children part... That was then... It has no meaning for today's world but as a story about God's wrath.

See the bible was written by man... Therefore a whole lot of it is with the influence of mostly mankind rather then the parts where God did something or commanded.

The Koran as you so very well know was recited to Muhammad starting in 610 by the angel Gabriel that is (what Muslims believe) Allah's own words. That means the entire Koran is Allah's wishes and commands.

Oh, they're both evil... They've hurt mankind more in my opinion then they have helped. It's really a shame of what we could have been instead of what we are now as a whole entire species now.

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Oh, I did actually. More like a quick skim. I read at a good speed.

Killing homosexuals - Man's laws. Look at the book it was written in.

As for the women and children part... That was then... It has no meaning for today's world but as a story about God's wrath.

See the bible was written by man... Therefore a whole lot of it is with the influence of mostly mankind rather then the parts where God did something or commanded.

The Koran as you so very well know was recited to Muhammad starting in 610 by the angel Gabriel that is (what Muslims believe) Allah's own words. That means the entire Koran is Allah's wishes and commands.

Oh, they're both evil... They've hurt mankind more in my opinion then they have helped. It's really a shame of what we could have been instead of what we are now as a whole entire species now.

I agree with that. :tu:

However, both, Bible and Quran are Gods books. Both, Bible and Quran were written by men. Quran was written after Mohammeds death.

Mohammed was not any bigger or lesser then Moses, who directly spoke to God, Abraham, Jesus, Noah..................

On the other hand, if it weren't for Judaism, Christianity and Islam we would still have human sacrifices and rituals.

We would still eat human flesh.

I see it this way. God tried, we faild. Again and again and again...........

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Back to topic?...we made it to the holidays without a terror attack like they promised...like I said at the beginning of the thread...terrorism warnings sell newspapers and tv ads...it's all anti-muslim propaganda and hype... :blink:

Bullfeathers. I have not heard of, nor read, any anti-muslim propaganda being aired or printed in the news. I don't know one person who has called for any kind of reprisal against any religion, race, or creed in America. Stoke the flames all you want, but what you desire to happen is'nt going to. Where do you come up with this tripe anyway?

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I agree with that. :tu:

However, both, Bible and Quran are Gods books. Both, Bible and Quran were written by men. Quran was written after Mohammeds death.

Mohammed was not any bigger or lesser then Moses, who directly spoke to God, Abraham, Jesus, Noah..................

On the other hand, if it weren't for Judaism, Christianity and Islam we would still have human sacrifices and rituals.

We would still eat human flesh.

I see it this way. God tried, we faild. Again and again and again...........

My hat's off to you Odas, good post and I totally agree. It would please God very much if Islam and Chritianity worked together to make the world a better place. But like you said, we fail again and again. But I believe we must still keep trying. It's time to ditch the "my way is the only way" rationale, it's archaic and small minded, and only serves mankinds over-inflated ego.

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On the other hand, if it weren't for Judaism, Christianity and Islam we would still have human sacrifices and rituals.

We would still eat human flesh.

I see it this way. God tried, we faild. Again and again and again...........

wrong.

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wrong.

Some people think I am right, some think I am wrong. This makes neither one of us

a better or worse person.

One has to respect both sides if we want to achieve true peace.

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