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Jalorm

Why is homosexuality wrong?

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Jalorm

Perhaps if the various groups pooled their views on the subject, (not just repeat passages from scripture or quotes from science magazines,) we could understand each other better. For starters, what exactly in the practice of homosexuality is it that most religions find wrong? Let's be adults here, and state the logical reason behind the objection.

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Princess Serenity

Because in The Bible it clearly states. It should be a man & a woman. That's all I know really. I don't read The Bible.

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IamsSon

Perhaps if the various groups pooled their views on the subject, (not just repeat passages from scripture or quotes from science magazines,) we could understand each other better. For starters, what exactly in the practice of homosexuality is it that most religions find wrong? Let's be adults here, and state the logical reason behind the objection.

I will try to do this without scriptural quotes, but since my objection is based on spiritual values, this may be hard.

I know many religious people object to homosexuality because it is a "sin against nature" or something along those lines.

I believe all sins are committed against God. I do not have a special objection to homosexuality. I just believe it to be a sin, and therefore my objection to it is the same as to any other sin. My actual objection is that someone who is committing a sin is asking me to accept their sin and even legitimize it. I am as incapable of doing that as I would be of legitimizing an alcoholic's lifestyle or a drug addict's lifestyle.

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Otacon

Everyone has their own views, to each their own eh? The world doesn't see it as that. It'd really be horrible if we did what we preached and let others do as they wish.

Isn't there a line in the bible that says "those shouldn't judge unless they wish to be judged?"

I have no problem if a man wants to love another man or a woman wants to love another woman. It is none of my business to enter that mans/womans life so it is not wrong in my eyes. As I said above, to each their own.

Edited by Otacon

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Heru

I will try to do this without scriptural quotes, but since my objection is based on spiritual values, this may be hard.

I know many religious people object to homosexuality because it is a "sin against nature" or something along those lines.

I believe all sins are committed against God. I do not have a special objection to homosexuality. I just believe it to be a sin, and therefore my objection to it is the same as to any other sin. My actual objection is that someone who is committing a sin is asking me to accept their sin and even legitimize it. I am as incapable of doing that as I would be of legitimizing an alcoholic's lifestyle or a drug addict's lifestyle.

Amen. Couldnt say it better.

I know u mentioned no scriptures and such but. Supposeidly all sins are equal in gods eye. Except one but its not about sexuality.

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demonic presence

i see nothing wrong with homosexuality, i know many people as its sinful or its not what was meant for us to do, but freedom of sexuality is something i believe in. if a guy wants to get with another guy, its not effecting me, so why should i care? thats my additude

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starlitkate

Exactly Iam!! I have gay friends and will support them all the way. But I also let them know that to my personal views is that it's a sin but they accept that because I am foward with them and they know I won't judge them. I will love a straight friend as well as a gay friend.

I believe people should be allowed to love who they want but I can't change everyone-including God's view on the matter.

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Aztec Warrior

Sometimes people have a problem with PDA.

Beyond that, what ever sick things people want to do in their own homes...well....have at it...but quietly please.

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Grandpa Greenman

There is nothing wrong with it. Just because some musty old book says it is wrong doesn't make it so. To tell someone who they can or can't love is a sin against that person. For some it is their nature to love the same gender or love both genders equally to force them to do otherwise is going against nature.

There is a long history in the Abrahamic religions of killing gays, who is guilty of sin the gay man or woman or their murder.

Hate is not a family value.

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ShaunZero

I will try to do this without scriptural quotes, but since my objection is based on spiritual values, this may be hard.

I know many religious people object to homosexuality because it is a "sin against nature" or something along those lines.

I believe all sins are committed against God. I do not have a special objection to homosexuality. I just believe it to be a sin, and therefore my objection to it is the same as to any other sin. My actual objection is that someone who is committing a sin is asking me to accept their sin and even legitimize it. I am as incapable of doing that as I would be of legitimizing an alcoholic's lifestyle or a drug addict's lifestyle.

But in all honesty, I see nothing wrong with homosexuality. The only thing you have to back it up is "God said so"(Paraphrasing).

As for a drug addict, they screw up their own lives. So some negetive DOES come from it. They hurt themselves and others. Same with alchoholics.

Being gay hurts no one. It brings no negetive at all in my opinion. The only difference between being gay and straight, is the sex you are attracted to. Therefore, if one is wrong, then both are in my opinion.

If we were to follow the Christian logic, we'd have to also believe anything God said was wrong. Such as "Eating icecream is a sin". Even though there's no real REASON for it being wrong other than "God said so", the believers would still hold this opinion and call Icecream eaters wrong.

I mean really.. sit down and actually think about that logic.

Edited by Zero of Deism

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Jodie.Lynne

Any one here eat the meat of pigs?

Ever shook hands with, talked to, or interacted with a woman during her menstrual period?

Speaking of..... you christian women are preaching and teaching. Thats a no-no.

Ever worked on the Sabbath? Whatever day you celebrate it?

These are all sins as well. Take one part of your holy book, you must take and abide by it all.

Funny how those that loudly proclaim ONE passage, in the entire flipping book, as the reason for the discrimination, and subjugation of an entire segment of the population conveniently forget the other "laws" of the book.

"Oh but....." they say, "Those rules where for THAT time. No one would suggest women were less than men today....."

"But it is OK to eat pork......"

Again I state: Accept one part of the books, accept them all.

I hope to hear more of you relating how you stoned your disobediant sons soon

:)

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Arthuria

Love, desire & lust between the same sexes has been around throughout the ages, by those that support it & by those that openly detest it yet secretly desire it deep within the comfort of their own closets.

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Atheist God
I know many religious people object to homosexuality because it is a "sin against nature" or something along those lines.

Then why are other animals such as deer for example gay as well. It goes beyond mere choice and thus not a sin. Wild animals can be gay as well which would certainly suggest that it is quite natural for a certain percentage of mammals to be homosexual.

But in all honesty, I see nothing wrong with homosexuality. The only thing you have to back it up is "God said so"(Paraphrasing).

The passage is found in leviticus on that note if people are going to follow this part of leviticus they should not pick and choose and follow all the things it says...

20:9 If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. (You can kill your kids for swearing at you)

20:10 If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death. (having sex with someone not your wife can kill you too.)

20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death. (This essentially says gays should be put to death)

25:44 As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from the nations that are round about you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you, to inherit as a possession forever; you may make slaves of them, but over your brethren the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another, with harshness. (You can own slaves)

25:45-46 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, . . . and they shall be your possession . . . they shall be your bondmen forever.

I could quote more but this gets my point across and Leviticus is not the only chapter in the bible that promotes everything from slavery to killing children etc. If your going to follow one part of a flawed book then you should live by it all.

It is illogical and immoral to hate someone for who they are and place yourself above them. This goes beyond the christians as well but any religion that opresses others for who they are.

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Paranoid Android

^There's more than just Leviticus. The New Testament also speaks out against it. Though if you want to look at Leviticus 20 alone, it also speaks out against having sexual relationships with a brother/sister or a mother/father, or someone who's already married, or even an animal. No one seems to think any of these are right and proper. They'll say "yep, all of these are wrong, but this one (homosexuality) is ok". In the broader context of Leviticus though there are also laws that we today see as not to be carried out (wearing poly-cotton shirts, eating pork, cutting your sideburns, for example) so I tend to use other parts of the Bible when referencing homosexuality.

And this leads on to my big beef with discussing homosexuality. WHy do we always single it out as something to be discussed? The Bible never singles it out, it's always in a list, and not even at the top of the list. The Bible never singles it out, yet we in modern society do? WHY? But to answer the question, homosexuality specifically is wrong because ultimately it does not do as God intended sex to do. That is to say, it does not fulfil God's edict to go forth and multiply. Let's for now ignore the obvious question of men or women who are unable to produce children and whether they should just stop having sex.......

This doesn't mean that the people practicing homosexuality are the most evil or vile creatures. No no no, that's not right at all. They are no different to any other person, that is to say, we all sin. In no way is homosexuality this big unpardonable sin. It is wrong in the exact same sense that a heterosexual having sexual relations outside of marriage is wrong. Heck, it's wrong in the exact same sense that someone stealing a packet of chewing gum is wrong, or not honouring their parents is wrong.

God hates fags? Hell no. God hates those who profess to hate.

Regards, PA

Edited by Paranoid Android

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IamsSon

Then why are other animals such as deer for example gay as well. It goes beyond mere choice and thus not a sin. Wild animals can be gay as well which would certainly suggest that it is quite natural for a certain percentage of mammals to be homosexual.

The passage is found in leviticus on that note if people are going to follow this part of leviticus they should not pick and choose and follow all the things it says...

20:9 If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. (You can kill your kids for swearing at you)

20:10 If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death. (having sex with someone not your wife can kill you too.)

20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death. (This essentially says gays should be put to death)

25:44 As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from the nations that are round about you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you, to inherit as a possession forever; you may make slaves of them, but over your brethren the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another, with harshness. (You can own slaves)

25:45-46 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, . . . and they shall be your possession . . . they shall be your bondmen forever.

I could quote more but this gets my point across and Leviticus is not the only chapter in the bible that promotes everything from slavery to killing children etc. If your going to follow one part of a flawed book then you should live by it all.

It is illogical and immoral to hate someone for who they are and place yourself above them. This goes beyond the Christians as well but any religion that opresses others for who they are.

Actually, I base myself more on what Romans 1 says. It is just another of the things that man turned to when he turned away from God. When I brought up the "sin against nature" part as you see I put it in quotations to point out that was not how I saw it. From my point, no sin is a sin against nature, they are all sins against God. I do not condemn a gay person anymore than I do anyone else because we are all sinners. There is nothing that says sins are only things that hurt others. All sins, even those that do have victims, hurt the person committing the sin, and that is enough. I am not perfect, I do not look down on someone who's gay. I see them just like me; I am a sinner too. Although I am saved, there are still sins I deal with on a daily basis. I would never consider asking that people accept my sins as just a lifestyle and legitimize me. From my standpoint legitimizing a gay lifestyle would be a sin, so there is no way I can do that.

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Mr Walker

"To tell someone who they can or can't love is a sin against that person.'

I know I have answered this comprehensively in other posts and i am aware that IamSon has read most of these, but I would like to reply particularly to the idea expressed above, and I am aware i tread on dangerous ground in doing so. (Sorry jalorm I thought the OP was by Iamson.Dont know what gave me that idea, except i had just been reading some other posts by him.

I love my mother, I love my father, and my sisters and mostly even my brother I love a lot of other people. (I am really a very blessed person:) And yes I would object to people telling me I could not love them. But to have sex with any of these people would not be accepted or seen as natural, and this is what the practice of homosexuality is about. A sexual act. Why are all the above acts unacceptable. Strangely(?)god's law reflects biological principles which have only become scientifically proven in modern times. Either the writers of the bible were divinely inspired, or they applied a form of common sense, or they got lucky.Take your pick. Why shouldn't I have sex with my mother or my sister? It is partly a genetic issue, but also a social one, in that it complicates and undermines the structure that very early societies/civilisations were born on. Yes, Animals have Same -gender sex(you can't accurately call it homosexual) They also mate with parents, siblings etc. I don't know what, if any, genetic difference there is between animals and humans, but I suspect our intelligence is the critical thing which may be lost through random inbreeding. Also, Animals do not have the same societal formation we do and therefore have not needed to protect it, by rules about who we can have sex/breed with. Now I know that today, sex does not directly correlate with breeding/ reproduction as it once did, thanks to the pill etc, and i know sex for pleasure /recreation is a generally accepted practice in most societies. But this is not the purpose of sex in nature (it is only "made" enjoyable to encourage an act necessary for reproduction which, otherwise, quite a lot of the human race would likely choose to do without) It doesn't matter if you think we were created this way, or if it is a product of natural selecton. In either case Non -reproductive sex is not natural. Thus, the prohibition by both god and ancient law makers of homosexual sex does make common sense.

Having said all that, as I have stated elsewhere, the bible makes it clear that we should love homosexuals, not judge them; and accept them as equal contenders for a place in heaven. As we should do ALL people).

So I think that while "people " can't tell you who to love, it is generally accepted that they can tell you a lot of people you are not permitted to have sex with. Personally, I would choose not to have sex with my mother, father, sisters, brother etc, or any one of the same gender, no matter how much I loved them, but I will not judge others for their actions, just try to inform them.

Edited by Mr Walker

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3rd rock resident alien

They will not produce an offspring. No more evolution for human species. No more multiplication of human genome.

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Jodie.Lynne

oh feck it.

I give up.

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TheOsirian

Somehow, a man who lived two thousand years ago and who traveled with twelve other men for several years makes a poor case of someone who might be against homosexual behaviour.

Personally, I'm straight and love the female curves, the voices, the...the...ah excuse me [returns twenty minutes later]...but seriously, I met this one guy one time and all the girls where I work would have given up their underwear on the spot for this guy. They were that nuts about the way he looked. Even I have to admit I had a weird feeling when in his presence. That kind of freaked me out and looking back, I'm curious as to how far that feeling might have went had I pursued it.

Wrong? No.

Natural? Yes.

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splendidtune

Everyone has their own views, to each their own eh? The world doesn't see it as that. It'd really be horrible if we did what we preached and let others do as they wish.

Isn't there a line in the bible that says "those shouldn't judge unless they wish to be judged?"

I have no problem if a man wants to love another man or a woman wants to love another woman. It is none of my business to enter that mans/womans life so it is not wrong in my eyes. As I said above, to each their own.

yeah i totally agree

remember america was founded on SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!!!!!!!!!!

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truethat

I will try to do this without scriptural quotes, but since my objection is based on spiritual values, this may be hard.

I know many religious people object to homosexuality because it is a "sin against nature" or something along those lines.

I believe all sins are committed against God. I do not have a special objection to homosexuality. I just believe it to be a sin, and therefore my objection to it is the same as to any other sin. My actual objection is that someone who is committing a sin is asking me to accept their sin and even legitimize it. I am as incapable of doing that as I would be of legitimizing an alcoholic's lifestyle or a drug addict's lifestyle.

You say its a sin like any other sin. You say you are as incapable of doing that as you would be of legitimizing an alcoholics lifestyle or a drug addicts lifestyle. These two lifestyles are sick and not just "sins." Lets compared it to any other sin:

Lets just go with one that supposed to be on equal footing:

Lust (undesired love) (this would include homosexuality)

Gluttony (overindulgence)

Greed (avarice)

Laziness (idleness)

Wrath (anger)

Envy (jealousy)

Pride (vanity)

Being homosexual is as bad as losing your temper.

Now lets hit the top ten

"You shall have no other gods before Me.

“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth... you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God....

“You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain....

“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy....

“Honor your father and your mother....

“You shall not murder.

“You shall not commit adultery.

“You shall not steal.

“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

“You shall not covet... .”

So you treat homosexuality the same way you treat those who don't honor the Sabbath by not working? Or those who don't speak to their parents for whatever reason? Or a teenager that steals a pack of gum?

Its not treated like any other sin. Its treated as an abomination in the eyes of God

Why?

Well Corinthians is used as an example

1 Cor 6:9-11

9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

So the greedy won't get in either eh? So all those people who lined the streets for the PS3 can kiss it good bye.

And for that matter so can pretty much ever middle class American upward, for while they were loading up on SUV's and refinancing their mortgages, Africans were dying of starvation and so were a lot of other people. Lets not even mention the people who ordered the Grand Slam breakfast at IHOP every Sunday.

All those people gossiping about TomKat? Ixney on the eavenHey. Not a chance.

Oh wait though, it says we were washed of our sins. Hmmm. And homosexuality is included in that. Read it again.

Then there is this infamous quote

13 " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Leviticus right? Making sure we understand that God REALLY doesn't dig homosexuality.

Its plain and simple when you read it like that.

But lets keep reading shall we? Lets start at the beginning of that passage

7 " 'Consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am the LORD your God. 8 Keep my decrees and follow them. I am the LORD, who makes you holy.

9 " 'If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head.

10 " 'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

11 "

27 " 'A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.' "

According to this Miss Cleo is in BIIIIG trouble.

According to this God considers having sex with a man when you are a man is a big no no. HUGE.

But so is having sex with your wife (even if by accident) and she gets her period. Damn you need to be put out of your community.

And so is adultery. So homosexuality is no different than adultery according to the big cheese.

But don't even suggest that its treated that way. Its treated as an abomination in the eyes of god, as if it is one of the worst sins out there.

Well so is sassing back mommy.

I am so sick of hearing "the bible made me do it" as an explanation for people's disgusting prejudice.

Edited by truethat

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SilverCougar

oh feck it.

I give up.

After explaining the flawed reasoning about procreation and why homosexuality is wrong... yeah I gave up as well.

I can only show the evidence on how homosexuality is a population control trigger.. and how even with the amount of humans on this planet.. we are in no danger of dieing out from people being homosexual so many times before I feel like talking to a wall is more productive.

Though I am getting really tired of people useing that already disproven "homosexual isn't natural because then we'd never procreate!!" Well guess what! Homosexuality has been with humans, and other animals for thousands of millions of years!! And look at where humans are... In the billions. Nope.. a few hundred thousand or so homosexuals will not harm the human population.

Can we *PLEASE* move on... I swear another thread about homosexualism is going to make me snap.

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TheOsirian

Yeah man - this thread is ghey. ;)

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truethat

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

The rest of Romans1 by the way. Its easy to stop where you want. But God condemned those as deserving death who are also "heartless, ruthless, GOSSIPS?

Like I said earlier. Everyone who sits around talking about homosexual relationships is GOSSIPING and deserves death anyway.

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ShaunZero

They will not produce an offspring. No more evolution for human species. No more multiplication of human genome.

That's if everyone became homosexual. Which will never happen.

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