Beckys_Mom Posted November 28, 2006 #1 Share Posted November 28, 2006 (edited) Are we just one sides when it comes to beliefs? Example... If someone says... I believe in God, and his son Jesus exists I believe in the bible.... Well isn't that a belief? But.. What if someone else says...I don't believe God & his son Jesus exists, and I believe the bible is a made up story book.!! Isn't that also someone’s belief?? Or does that someone have to believe in religion in order to have freedom of his or hers beliefs and be able to voice them...? Look how many times someone has claimed that Atheism is like a religion / beliefs system...because they strongly believe there is no God...and yet at the same time...when a non believer claims they dont believe in anything related to a diety, they will get corrected and told..they show some respect...I am not talking about just on line chat...I am talking about real life...I have had it said to me by my own father not all that long ago..and thought, hold up..me not believing the bible to be true is MY BELIEF..I feel strongly about this..so why shouldn’t I be able to say so when asked?? Doesn’t it swing both ways? or are we just biased? something to think about PS I just posted this because of a disagreement with my dad last weekend lol Edited November 28, 2006 by Beckys_Mom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bella-Angelique Posted November 28, 2006 #2 Share Posted November 28, 2006 I do not think that anyone of any particular belief system cares to be called stupid, evil, or the source of all of today's violence and aggression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Link of Hyrule Posted November 28, 2006 #3 Share Posted November 28, 2006 Is lack of belief a belief in itself? A question for the ages. I believe (hey, there's that word again) non-belief is very much a belief in itself. But that's just my opinion. Concerning the specific argument of whether Atheism is a religion, well it really depends on what your definition of religion is. According to some definitions, it can be a religion. According to other definitions it is not. Regards, PA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bella-Angelique Posted November 28, 2006 #4 Share Posted November 28, 2006 I thought the question was about showing respect for individual's beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted November 28, 2006 Author #5 Share Posted November 28, 2006 IMO saying you dont believe there to be a God of anykind ect...is not disrespect However...I would consider telling someone their beliefs are plain stupid and they are stupid for just simply believing...and adding more insults...then that is not right and disrespectful Just in the same way if someone tells a non believer he or she is stupid ect for being a non believer, and adding that they have no morals and dont lead a good life all because they dont believe in a certain God...that too is disrespectful..IMO Live and let live I say If you believe in God or not..who cares...you should only care and worry about yourself...your own beliefs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthuria Posted November 28, 2006 #6 Share Posted November 28, 2006 (edited) A belief in nothing can be different from non-belief...Non-belief doesn't necessarily mean a belief in something - more like apathy, or indifference. In relation to this subject, words like belief & faith - are subjective constructs, drawing from one's inner perception rather than what actually defines reality itself. When these words are passed around, it's no wonder why persons with different perceptions will be quick to question & challenge - to further assert & reassure that their own perceptions are protected. Edited November 28, 2006 by Arthuria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOsirian Posted November 28, 2006 #7 Share Posted November 28, 2006 All I read was "swing both ways" so I quickly investigated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bella-Angelique Posted November 28, 2006 #8 Share Posted November 28, 2006 All I read was "swing both ways" so I quickly investigated. So did you find a gay female religious fundementalist who is a member of the NRA and peace activist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rev r Posted November 28, 2006 #9 Share Posted November 28, 2006 You should be able to freely express your beliefs regardless as to what they are. However respect is not something that should be given out like halloween candy, it must be earned. My advice is usually to just treat people with the amount of respect you feel they have earned and not worry if they are showing you the amount of respect you think you deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harte Posted November 28, 2006 #10 Share Posted November 28, 2006 A belief in nothing can be different from non-belief... I have to agree with this. When a "believer" asserts that non-belief requires as much faith as belief, he is using a straw man argument. In actuality, at least in this religious context, non-belief arises from the total absence of any reason to believe. If someday an actual reason to believe surfaces (and note that such a reason may be different for one person than for another,) then the non-believer may well become a believer. People that insist that there is no God, however, are believers, and not non-believers. They are just believers in a different thing. This is for the same reason laid out in the previous paragraph: that there is no reason to believe that there is no God. On the other hand, absence of evidence is certainly evidence of absence. Harte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bella-Angelique Posted November 28, 2006 #11 Share Posted November 28, 2006 You should be able to freely express your beliefs regardless as to what they are. However respect is not something that should be given out like halloween candy, it must be earned. Good manners are a form of respect from one member of a culture for another member. As a member of the same society it should not have to be earned I think. This is what builds civility, social capital, and communication. Without it there is just chaos and anger as each form of individualism relentlessly tries to dominant and eliminate another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOsirian Posted November 28, 2006 #12 Share Posted November 28, 2006 I believe that we existed right from the start - even before the creation of the Universe, and that the reason why we are here is due to an experiment (creating the Earth) having gone terribly wrong. Teachers like Jesus and the others come every so often to remind of our nature and purpose. We're trying to rebecome divine beings, and God itself is not perfect, since it is perfecting itself through us and our shenanigans. That's my beliefs - in a nutshell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamsSon Posted November 28, 2006 #13 Share Posted November 28, 2006 First of all, Hi BM, good to see you active again, I hope this means Becky is doing better! I have to agree that anyone should be able to express their beliefs without being called disrespectful for doing so, unless they are being disrespectful in the way they are expressing them, but if you are simply saying that you do or do not believe something that should be fine. Unfortunately, beliefs are one of those things that people hold dearly and sometimes react as if they are being personally threatened when someone expresses beliefs that are opposite of theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperactive Posted November 28, 2006 #14 Share Posted November 28, 2006 rituals define religion more than deities. so is atheism a religion? are there any rituals connected to atheism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rev r Posted November 28, 2006 #15 Share Posted November 28, 2006 Good manners are a form of respect from one member of a culture for another member. As a member of the same society it should not have to be earned I think. This is what builds civility, social capital, and communication. Without it there is just chaos and anger as each form of individualism relentlessly tries to dominant and eliminate another. I retract that statement. It didn't even match with my "advice." Suffering from oral peditis I suppose. My views are mine. Your views are yours. We may agree on some points and others we may disagree strongly. To expect a certain behavior out of each other is useless. The best course of action is to hold noone else to our standard than ourselves. You're alright in my book Bella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOsirian Posted November 28, 2006 #16 Share Posted November 28, 2006 so is atheism a religion? are there any rituals connected to atheism? Of course. Science itself qualifies as a religion; mass belief and adherence to principles formulated and expounded upon by the elite and trained, belief in things the ordinary citizen has no access to seeing physical proof of (neutrinos, atoms, molecules, etc), and frequent chastisement for daring to venture beyond idealogical borders. Einstein was to Science as Jesus was to the Hebrews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperactive Posted November 28, 2006 #17 Share Posted November 28, 2006 atheism and science are not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOsirian Posted November 28, 2006 #18 Share Posted November 28, 2006 I'd be willing right here and now to place money on a bet saying that the majority of scientists are atheists. I don't have anything against that. I'm just saying. Tough to believe in the forest when you're preoccupied with analyzing the bark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperactive Posted November 28, 2006 #19 Share Posted November 28, 2006 what was that saying about not seeing the forest for the trees? The problem is if you may also miss the hole in the forest floor and fall to your death if your too busy googly-eyeing the sky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOsirian Posted November 28, 2006 #20 Share Posted November 28, 2006 (edited) The hole in the ground has a bottom. The sky on the other hand, is limitless. God I love Chinese fortune cookies... Edited November 28, 2006 by TheOsirian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperactive Posted November 28, 2006 #21 Share Posted November 28, 2006 that "limitlessness" won't do you any favours in bringing you to your own limit (death) because of idle distraction now, will it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Greenman Posted November 28, 2006 #22 Share Posted November 28, 2006 what was that saying about not seeing the forest for the trees? The problem is if you may also miss the hole in the forest floor and fall to your death if your too busy googly-eyeing the sky! Sounds like a Pagan thing to me. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOsirian Posted November 28, 2006 #23 Share Posted November 28, 2006 My God says he can beat your God's ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcgram Posted November 29, 2006 #24 Share Posted November 29, 2006 (edited) I believe in God and the bible but I have a friend who is into Druidism and a co-worker who is Buddist. None of us disrespect the other's beliefs but instead often discuss why we believe what we do. Edit: Forgot to add that it's nice to see you again, BM!! Edited November 29, 2006 by tcgram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harte Posted November 29, 2006 #25 Share Posted November 29, 2006 I'd be willing right here and now to place money on a bet saying that the majority of scientists are atheists. I don't have anything against that. I'm just saying. Tough to believe in the forest when you're preoccupied with analyzing the bark. You might win that bet, though I think not. See, the word "atheist" is probably not accurate. Perhaps "agnostic" would work better. In his day, Albert Einstein said, "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." More recently, a Nature survey of American scientists found about 40 percent of them to be religious. <********"http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/1997/11/slack.html" target="_blank">Source Depends on what you mean by "religious." A study in today's edition of the prestigious science journal "Nature" reveals that members of the scientific community are "more likely than ever to reject God and immortality," discloses Britain's Daily Telegraph. That claim is based on another study which repeats a historic survey first made in 1916 by Dr. James Leuba of Bryn Mawr University. It revealed that over eight decades ago, only about 40% of the scientists surveyed expressed belief in any supreme being. Leuba predicted that advances in education and technology would further erode faith in religious claims... In 1997, Edward Larson of the University of Georgia decided to revisit Leuba's study and evaluate the prediction that religious belief was disappearing, at least in the scientific community... Larson closely followed Leuba's methodology, repeating the same questions and attempting to find a representative sample which met the original survey profile. "I had no idea how it would turn out," Larson said. 60% responded, a figure considered high for any surveys. Of those, 40% expressed belief in a deity, while nearly 45% did not. Larson's survey also discovered that physicists were less likely to have such faith, while mathematicians were significantly more likely to believe in a supreme being, as defined by Leuba. <********"http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/atheism1.htm" target="_blank">Source Interesting article on the subject at that page. Lastly, this: Particularly surprising to Ms. Ecklund was the finding that 66 percent of natural scientists think of themselves as spiritual (as do 69 percent of social scientists). Some said their spirituality came from a "vague feeling that there is something outside myself," while others said their spirituality was connected to an "other-centered worldview." Even among scientists who are atheists, 22 percent say they consider themselves spiritual... Notice the Chronicle article celebrates the spirituality of scientists? It fails to mention this part of her study: During public lectures about the study, the question inevitably asked first is: Do the professors you studied believe in God? When asked their beliefs about God, nearly 34 percent of academic scientists answer “I do not believe in God” and about 30 percent answer “I do not know if there is a God and there is no way to find out,” the classic agnostic response. This means that over 60 percent of professors in these natural and social science disciplines describe themselves as either atheist or religiously agnostic My emphasis. <********"http://danielmorgan.blogspot.com/2006/11/spirituality-and-religion-among.html" target="_blank">Source Harte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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