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Opus Magnus

Karma and Spells

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Opus Magnus

I've always heard that there's a return to each spell that is cast. Some sources say this is 3 times, some say it is 7 times, and others have said 3 fold. Now this confuses me. Anybody here that knows about this. 3 fold to me seems like it would either be 27 (3 to the third power), or 9 (3*3).

Also I'm confused on the structure of how this works. Is it just subjective? Do they say it comes back more than 1 time because it affects more people than just the person you have cast it on? If that's true if you cast a spell on someone who has influence over a million people, and that spell caused him to do an action that affected a million people; would it come back a million times?

Is it just coming back 3 fold because that is the law of karma? Does anyone know the answer to these questions? Personally I think it might just be speculation, but my curiosity has the best of me.

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Princess Serenity

I was told, it only returns if you cast a black/evil spell. And each time it's more worse then the last one. That's all I know, sorry.

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Dark Bloody Wind Goddess Haruka

I've always heard that there's a return to each spell that is cast. Some sources say this is 3 times, some say it is 7 times, and others have said 3 fold. Now this confuses me. Anybody here that knows about this. 3 fold to me seems like it would either be 27 (3 to the third power), or 9 (3*3).

Also I'm confused on the structure of how this works. Is it just subjective? Do they say it comes back more than 1 time because it affects more people than just the person you have cast it on? If that's true if you cast a spell on someone who has influence over a million people, and that spell caused him to do an action that affected a million people; would it come back a million times?

Is it just coming back 3 fold because that is the law of karma? Does anyone know the answer to these questions? Personally I think it might just be speculation, but my curiosity has the best of me.

In the law of ( wicca/pagan) it says three folds some people believe this some dont some say three times like every thing else its basised on what you believe on how you view it but it is three folds http://www.starcraftsob.com/craft/rede.shtml there in the withch's Rede also look at the Witch's Pyramid http://www.angelfire.com/realm2/amethystbt/witches2.html http://thewiccanwoods.blogspot.com/2005/08...hs-pyramid.html and http://paganwiccan.about.com/library/texts/blcreed.htm the Creed

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Opus Magnus

Thanks for the links, but none of them answer my question clearly. I've read the Witch's Creed in the past, but the Pyramid was new stuff. Still, though, what is mean't by three fold? Is it 3, 27 or 9? Or is it just a way of saying it comes back stronger?

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arkland

WTF? 9HK 2RX B5^&&^ R TO THE ABC OF 12 DIVIDED BY CHALK.

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demonic presence

I've always heard that there's a return to each spell that is cast. Some sources say this is 3 times, some say it is 7 times, and others have said 3 fold. Now this confuses me. Anybody here that knows about this. 3 fold to me seems like it would either be 27 (3 to the third power), or 9 (3*3).

Also I'm confused on the structure of how this works. Is it just subjective? Do they say it comes back more than 1 time because it affects more people than just the person you have cast it on? If that's true if you cast a spell on someone who has influence over a million people, and that spell caused him to do an action that affected a million people; would it come back a million times?

Is it just coming back 3 fold because that is the law of karma? Does anyone know the answer to these questions? Personally I think it might just be speculation, but my curiosity has the best of me.

It is a law of the Wiccan belief, though i dont hold it to be true, i believe you will only recieve negative energy is you cast a negative spell AND you have some kind of psychic link between yourself and the person, which is why you should always get into a state of gnosis before casting a spell.

I was told, it only returns if you cast a black/evil spell. And each time it's more worse then the last one. That's all I know, sorry.

True, to an extent, if you have the psychic link between the two of you, and you cast a curse or hex you could recieve negative energy,you wont recieve any bad energy if you cast a blessing or compasion ritual but IMO there is no such thing as "black" or "white" magick, any type can be used for benevolent or malicious reasons.

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Princess Serenity
True, to an extent, if you have the psychic link between the two of you, and you cast a curse or hex you could recieve negative energy,you wont recieve any bad energy if you cast a blessing or compasion ritual but IMO there is no such thing as "black" or "white" magick, any type can be used for benevolent or malicious reasons.

Oh thanks for that. What I typed is what I was told. So that's what I went with.

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Bebi

Three fold is basically the same as x3.

There are differing beliefs for every aspect of life, no two theories are exactly the same. My own personal belief is whatever you do in life (good or bad) will return to you at some point in the future, not necessarily three fold. A very vague example: good deeds will be returned as good luck, bad deeds as bad. I believe that this applies to everybody at all times, not just "witches casting spells". Does that make sense?

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Opus Magnus

Yeah, it makes sense. I believe the same thing. Does anyone know if there have been attempts to calculate karma with numerology or mathematics? I guess I could do a search of it.

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ivytheplant

Yeah, it makes sense. I believe the same thing. Does anyone know if there have been attempts to calculate karma with numerology or mathematics? I guess I could do a search of it.

You're not the only one who's pondered it. I wrote an article a few years ago about the mathematical problems with the law of three (and if my $%^#! computer would work again I could finally upload it to the new site). I have ALWAYS had an issue with the law of three and got in trouble more than once with my coven for opening my mouth and asking them why they thought it was okay.

As far as I see it, if you send something out, then it comes back to you three times. Each of those three things then has to go back again three times each. Unless someone does something to stop the back and forth, eventually it's going to perpetuate itself exponentially. And though the universe may be huge, eventually that three times three times three times three etc is going to hit a wall. And if that intent is indeed energy like Wiccans are wont to believe and energy cannot be created or destroyed, where does that exponental energy come from?

Alternately,

Also, I thought times three was nothing more than a rule based on fear, similar to the threat of sin and eternal damnation. "If you do something, it will come back to you three times! Ooooo! Be goooood!" I mean, that's kind of ridiculous to me. Making people follow rules with threat of punishment has never really worked. Just try keeping a kid from doing something wrong. Threats of punishment just ensure that they'll find a way around it. And considering that Wicca gets so p***y about Christianity's moral code, it makes no sense that they'd think they were any different.

Not to mention a threefold return seems a bit harsh for a punishment. If I get angry and trip someone so they stumble, that means I should expect to fall down an escalator and break my legs. If I'm slightly mean to someone in a chat room, then I should expect to receive verbal abuse from my mother. Of course, the threefold return might not be breaking my legs falling down an escalator. It could just be that I get tripped three times by someone.

But again there's the math problem. If I trip someone and I get tripped three times by other people, then those people each get tripped themselves by three other people who each get tripped themselves by three other people.

Mathematically it just doesn't make sense to me. I tend to think more in terms of a one-on-one return. I do something naughty, then it comes back to me once. Simple. Of course, I try not to live my life with that kind of superstition and try to live a good life and not go around tripping people. However, I also realize that sometimes I get a little paranoid and afraid that if I do stick a bit of a curse on a person who's hurting me, that it will just come back at me negatively and I really don't need any more of that. But that fear is just leftover from my days of thinking that the threefold law was something more than it is:

A mathematical improbability trying to control people through fear of punishment.

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VampKat

It has been my experience that with magick, you get what you put out. If you curse some one, it rebounds. If you bless someone, it rebounds. If you are a person that doesn’t fu€k people over, keeps your own side of the street clean, so to speak, a karmic intention is amazing, and the only rebound you get is what you put out. You basically alert Karma of what the person is putting out there and as long as you are not putting out bad or malicious energy, you usually won’t get hit. Beware though, if your actions inadvertently cause someone harm, it’s gonna hit you back hard. The punishment usually fits the crime, and if you pay attention, you can watch the show when stuff sucks in that person’s life. The other person can stop their misfortune by correcting their actions that started the intention. The connection is always blatantly recognizable and easy to connect back to the original action. Your karma is on the line until the person “gets it”. So if you can’t be good until their karma is paid off either by recognition or time, you might not wanna try this!:rofl:

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XenoFish

It's called confirmation bias and this thread is almost 12 years old. 

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Lumpino
On 6. 12. 2006 at 5:13 AM, Opus Magnus said:

I've always heard that there's a return to each spell that is cast. Some sources say this is 3 times, some say it is 7 times, and others have said 3 fold. Now this confuses me. Anybody here that knows about this. 3 fold to me seems like it would either be 27 (3 to the third power), or 9 (3*3).

Also I'm confused on the structure of how this works. Is it just subjective? Do they say it comes back more than 1 time because it affects more people than just the person you have cast it on? If that's true if you cast a spell on someone who has influence over a million people, and that spell caused him to do an action that affected a million people; would it come back a million times?

Is it just coming back 3 fold because that is the law of karma? Does anyone know the answer to these questions? Personally I think it might just be speculation, but my curiosity has the best of me.

Karma are the results of all actions, good, bad and neutral.  It always depends on the intent of what a person is doing.

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Opus Magnus

Yeah, well this was from twelve years ago. Many of these questions have been answered for me, by the grace of God, practice and study. Another question was how were the goetic times of the angels decided with days and a confusion with midnight and that the clock doesn't quite make sense. Well, my discovery is that it is probably based on the lunar, not gregorian calendar with months, weeks and days. Also, traditionally, before clocks were very popular, the first hour of the new day is at sunset. These new discoveries make the gears actually concrete and reliable. Also it fixes the confusion of the Sabbath day and missing links in what might have been lost in time keeping with the flood. Because the moon naturally resets itself and is more reliable for record keeping than the Sun.

But, Jesus says that not to judge lest ye be judged and not to be condemned or else you be condemned back by equal measure. And that your good works will return pressed down and measured overflowing. So, sometimes, the scenerio appears that things return a little more than what was put into them. Like dust gathering on a comet or asteroid.

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John from Lowell

Hello,

My understanding on how these things work is more esoteric than technical. Within each human are aspects of self which are divine. If it is true that we each carry an eternal spirit, that we are this spirit much more than our intellectual brain, then we know how to do everything innately. Our problem is that we have a physical brain with all its physical limitations. So we strive for linear answers to multidimensional questions. it just can not work that way.

The origional question about casting spells is a great example. Consider an aspect of your subconscious, an inner child, has the power to create magic. You cast a spell. The child will make the spell work, it is not the spell itself but the energies of your intent that does this. That child within, in all innocenses, will conclude you must want to experience the consequences of that spell as well. So it will do the spell and also put things in motion so that you Better Understand what you are requesting. These things work this way because there is a divinity within you which wishes for you to evolve your awareness about human potentials. It does that not through your intellect but with personal life experiences.

So as you try to figure out these LoA , spell casting effects and the stuff like this, you are really missing the point, in my view. Linear concepts just do not work when attempting to comprehending our greater reality. You need to shift your thinking beyond linear intellectual points of view towards more esoteric principals if you ever expect to grasp these Laws of Physics.

John

 

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DRAGYN RAKEN

Be responsible to all action we do, no matter good or evil act or magic. How many times it shoots back that depends the other person protection or divine punishment or your higher self. 

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