PSI -vs- SCI

[Virtual Particle]

I have taken the liberty to present the math that supports my point Silentom and in respect to Yours I have yet to observe any effort to do the same. How sad for you and how obviously good for me

First Law of Thermodynamics: Energy can be changed from one form to another, but it cannot be created or destroyed. The total amount of energy and matter in the Universe remains constant, merely changing from one form to another. The First Law of Thermodynamics (Conservation) states that energy is always conserved, it cannot be created or destroyed. In essence, energy can be converted from one form into another. Click here for another page (developed by Dr. John Pratte, Clayton State Univ., GA) covering thermodynamics.

Any thoughts??

Edited December 11, 2006 by Triad

[IamsSon]

I have taken the liberty to present the math that supports my point Silentom and in respect to Yours I have yet to observe any effort to do the same. How sad for you and how obviously good for me

Any thoughts??

How does this refute anything which has been presented by jjbreen here?

[Jjbreen]

Triad -

Once again you have done exactly what other's have tried to do: Go off on some deep Left Field Tangent.

What I am talking about has NOTHING to do with the THEORY of QP.

What I am dealing with is science that has been well proven, well established science. I don't have to prove it - it's been well proven for over a century!

Edited: I just read this from you:

...Energy can be changed from one form to another, but it cannot be created or destroyed...

So I am not wrong - actually the below is easily inline with what I just quoted from you!

A. Air molecules exist. Proven

We change the air molecule by heating it - by what ever means - thus:

B. When heated, air molecules rise. Proven (Totally in line with your statement.)

We change the air molecule by cooling it - by what ever menas - thus:

C. When cooled down they drop. Proven

When this change is constant -- it thus:

D. When you establish this pattern you create air flow. Proven.

Answer this:

When has any of the above been dis-proven as false?

Please answer that? When has A. - D. been disproven as false??

What is there to prove? What I am talking about is totally in line! Thank you!

Except your tangent which has NOTHING to do w/the topic at hand - except doing just that - avoiding the focus of this topic with tangents.

I am not talking the THEORY of QP or any other theories - I am talking about well established Science Facts. Air molecules rise when heated, drop when cooled.

Jj -

Edited December 11, 2006 by Jjbreen

[Virtual Particle]

Absolutely IamsSon and beyond any shadow of doubt nothing can be destroyed meaning that the energy that is life exist forever.

Any thoughts??

[Silentom]

I have taken the liberty to present the math that supports my point Silentom and in respect to Yours I have yet to observe any effort to do the same. How sad for you

But you have proven NOTHING with any of your claims againt Jjbreens posts!

[Virtual Particle]

Jjbreen Math please to establish the validity of your contention (in relation to the specifics of the phenomenon in question, otherwise....

Any thoughts??

[Silentom]

Absolutely IamsSon and beyond any shadow of doubt nothing can be destroyed meaning that the energy that is life exist forever.

Any thoughts??

Once again this has nothing to do with heat rising when it gets warmer and falling when it is cooler.

[Jjbreen]

Jjbreen Math please to establish the validity of your contention (in relation to the specifics of the phenomenon in question, otherwise....

Any thoughts??

Please see edited POST # 53 and answer my questions.. Thank you... Jj

[Virtual Particle]

What I have proven Silentom is that you Jjbreen and IamsSon HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT......That is obvious....

Any thoughts?

PS:Jjbreen did read post # 53 does the term F.O.S. (as in you are......) mean anything to you

Edited December 11, 2006 by Triad

[Jjbreen]

What I have proven Silentom is that you Jjbreen and IamsSon HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT......That is obvious....

Any thoughts?

PS:Jjbreen did read post # 53 does the term F.O.S. (as in you are......) mean anything to you

Triad - please see post number 53 and answer my questions, in that post 53 does show I know what I'm talking about. Your answer will tell us if you know what you are talking about.... ... thank you - Jj

[Virtual Particle]

Any thoughts??

[Silentom]

Well lets see Triad!

The First Law states that energy cannot be created or destroyed; rather, the amount of energy lost in a steady state process cannot be greater than the amount of energy gained.

The Second Law states that energy systems have a tendency to increase their entropy (heat transformation content) rather than decrease it.

The Third Law deals with the fact that there is an absolute constant in the universe known as absolute zero. Derived from the Gibbs free energy equation, where ΔG = ΔH - TΔS (where ΔG is the change in free energy, ΔH is the change in enthalpy (or total heat), T is Temperature and ΔS is the change in entropy (or unusable heat), as the temperature reaches 0 or a very low value, ΔS naturally will also approach 0 or a very small value.

Put another way, if one imagines atoms flying around in a box, hitting each other randomly, all the time, one can imagine a lot of chaos. Then, imagine what would happen if the temperature begins to decrease. The atoms slow down, hit each other less frequently, begin to settle as gravity has more effect on them; the chaos decreases.

As can be derived from the energy balance equation on a thermodynamic system there exist energetic quantities called thermodynamic potentials, being the quantitative measure of the stored energy in the system. The four most well known potentials are:

Internal energy U

Helmholtz free energy A= U - TS

Enthalpy H = U + PV

Gibbs free energy G = U + PV - TS

Potentials are used to measure energy changes in systems as they evolve from an initial state to a final state. The potential used depends on the constraints of the system, such as constant temperature or pressure. Internal energy is the internal energy of the system, enthalpy is the internal energy of the system plus the energy related to pressure-volume work, and Helmholtz and Gibbs free energy are the energies available in a system to do useful work when the temperature and volume or the pressure and temperature are fixed, respectively.

What I have proven Silentom is that you Jjbreen and IamsSon HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT......That is obvious....

Everything that we have posted in this thread is there Triad!

[ssjtin]

It's obvious Triad is an idiot with nothing relevant to say so you guys should just stop trying to convince him he's just rambling.

Any thoughts??

[Ness of Psionix]

Ok, Kaz - I am going to assume that you have not covered this in your school science class yet??

Because to ask that question tells me that you do not yet understand the SCI answer to that - which really has a simple and easy understood answer.

Hey - I have a great idea: Ask your science teacher that! Yes I am serious - ask him/her. They might even (??) be willing to give you a simple demo in the Sci classroom.

Let me know if not , I am putting together a series of digital stills to explain the principle of what goes on in a jar.

Then you can ask your teachers if this is accurate or not.... Understand they will not be "Deep" but simple and basic - but factual.

But this is the point of this thread - to actually get into basic Sci that is at play so that it's understood what dynamics are at play...

Jj -

Still waiting for an answer.

[ssjtin]

If the psiwheel moves from thermaldynamics, and our hands are constantly giving off heat, why doesn't the psiwheel move constantly?

Can you keep your hands perfectly still? Without moving a nanometre? Even a millimetre?

Can you perfectly align the pin wheel? Are you operating in a perfectly stable environment?

No, which is why the psiwheel won't move constantly.

[Silentom]

If you watch these Psiwheel videos closely you will see the individual performing this trick is constantly moving their hands!

This is because it alters the air currents around the psiwheel and in the end causing it to spin.

But also you will notice it isn't always very successfull this is beacuase you have to get the flow going just right.

Tom

[ssjtin]

Well said Tom. Now let me predict what Triad might want to say...

Where's the MATH? Where's THE math? WHERE'S the math?

Any thoughts??

[Jjbreen]

Still waiting for an answer.

I am quoting your question:

If the psiwheel moves from thermaldynamics, and our hands are constantly giving off heat, why doesn't the psiwheel move constantly?

Ok - it's a simple answer:

I'm surprised you even asked this question - as I've yet to see the hands of anyone in these videos stay stationary - they are moving them around.

Thus changing the the way the temp is focused.

Thus the pin-wheel will stop and even change direction depending on the way one's had is held.

I am actually going to show this after this FRIDAY coming when my nephew comes over to video it for me. I've been doing on and off this evening as a mater fact - calling how it spins, when it will spin and the direction that it will spin - and when it will stop! --> ALL based on how and where my hands are. It's really quite easy to do...

Plus the temp will return to normal once you break the cycle of heat/cold ratio - even Silentom answered it. It's really a no brainer -

If I can do this at will - I suppose I have "PSI" - no, I do though understand the dynamics at play. Btw, I'm doing this with both a 2" and 1.5" square pieces of white paper you feed through a printer. It's easy to do and easy to manipulate and control.

Jj -

[Jjbreen]

Any thoughts??

Pretty much what I expected from you Tri! Gee I must be psychic!!

I knew you would have to ignore POST # 53 and it's questions - you simply had no choice. The answers are pretty straight forward. So I'll simply take this as you accept that I'm right. Thank you.

Now unless you have anything to post that is specific to the thread - it'll simply be ignored - as I encourage everyone else to do as well.

He is unable to address post #53 - so to 'save face' he 'makes faces'

Next.....

[Silentom]

Ok - it's a simple answer:

I'm surprised you even asked this question - as I've yet to see the hands of anyone in these videos stay stationary - they are moving them around.

Thus changing the the way the temp is focused.

Thus the pin-wheel will stop and even change direction depending on the way one's had is held.

Thank You Jj! you couldn't have said it any better.

And i can't wait to see the video!

Tom

[brave_new_world]

PS That link just wants me to post a reply to this topic.

Exactly, I think you are too scared to read it personally because then you may have to admit that psi abilitiy may exist. I'll post it again. But it seems to me that you cannot come up with constructive scientific criticism. Also what about the water crystals?? I left you two decent scientific sights that show evidence of psychic ability and you ignore them and sweep them under the rug like most ignorant prejudice scientists.

It's like you have made up your mind and are refusing to look at evidence. Anyway believe what you wanna believe.

[ssjtin]

I stopped reading after the first ridiculous example you posted. You didn't answer me so I'll say it again - you want us to believe that these participants are unconsciously/subconsciously manipulating a process that they have no idea about to get a desired outcome? (For those who don't know, this is in response to something BNW posted about participants apparently affecting a random number generator with their psychic abilities)

It seems that like most people who stubbornly try to justify their beliefs with any solid proof you just move on after each of your arguements are debunked instead of recognizing that yes, they were wrong.

[Jjbreen]

I stopped reading after the first ridiculous example you posted. You didn't answer me so I'll say it again - you want us to believe that these participants are unconsciously/subconsciously manipulating a process that they have no idea about to get a desired outcome? (For those who don't know, this is in response to something BNW posted about participants apparently affecting a random number generator with their psychic abilities)

It seems that like most people who stubbornly try to justify their beliefs with any solid proof you just move on after each of your arguements are debunked instead of recognizing that yes, they were wrong.

BNW & ssjtn - The topic of this thread has NOTHING to do with the RNG - the process there is still open to interpretation of the "evidence".

The topic of this thread is the science of Pin wheels aka "Psi Wheels".

(I'm tired of people taking tangents to avoid the focus of this topic.)

If BNW wants to start a thread on RNG - hey go for it.

But I would like us to please stay on topic of this thread - Thank you....

Jj -

[Silentom]

Okay everyone a psiwheel/pin wheel is an object created from paper! You can find simple instructions for it online.

Anyway make one and find yourself a hous hold threading needle push this needle through a plastic base and then,

balance the psiwheel/pin wheel on it!

Then move your hand back and fourth around it and write down your findings or even better record them on video.

Tell me what you come up with!

[brave_new_world]

I stopped reading after the first ridiculous example you posted. You didn't answer me so I'll say it again - you want us to believe that these participants are unconsciously/subconsciously manipulating a process that they have no idea about to get a desired outcome? (For those who don't know, this is in response to something BNW posted about participants apparently affecting a random number generator with their psychic abilities)

It seems that like most people who stubbornly try to justify their beliefs with any solid proof you just move on after each of your arguements are debunked instead of recognizing that yes, they were wrong.

ok since you are too obtuse to recognise the random number generator evidence. How about the water crystals as direct PROOF of mind over matter???