3,000 Soldiers For Saddam, Was it worth it?

[Fluffybunny]

The war was a mistake from the start.

As insane as saddam was, he wasn't a threat to the US; we crushed his military in 91 and the lack of funds and supplies from the resolution kept him crippled. Was he trying to ignore resolutions? yes, but in the end, the resolutions kept him from rebuilding his military and being a threat to anyone, specially the US.

Would there have been a time when it would be necessary to take him out? maybe, but 2003 was not the time; he could not have attacked us and did not have the resources to be a threat to anyone in the region.

The "bigger picture" joc speaks of fails to see the horrible effect that this shamble of a war has had on the public opinion of the US; both internally and worldwide. Some don't seem to care about that but it is a serious concern.

For the longest time the US had the resources and money to do what we wished; we were on the cutting edge of manufacturing for many different industries and we were financially strong. That is not the case; we are not in a position to be able to call the shots like we once were and having p***ed off the better part of the world doesn't help the matter.

We no longer have the blank check we once had; we have a budget that is out of control and we are spending ourselves into oblivion; one billion dollars a day at this point. Bush has acted like a petulant rich kid who has never had to worry about money and spends it carelessly; this war is the prime example.

We still have the opportunity to turn things around; pull back militarily and begin to strengthen our own infrastructure to make ourselves strong again, we can become a world leader in more than things military; but only with a big investment in ourselves rather than other countries.

we have managed to put ourself in a position where there is no graceful way out of the region and we do not have the funding to go inefinately; a few more years will absolutely destroy our economy and we will not be able to recover...

But hey, we got saddam...

[truethat]

Really you are deluding yourself if you think the world had a positive opinion of us prior to this war. They tolerated us. They didn't like us. 9-11 showed the world as it really felt.

I think that alot of people think everything would have stayed the same if it wasn't for the war but things had started changing dramatically with the bombing of the USS Cole. 911 just iced it.

If you think Saddam had nothing at all to do with 911 I don't know what to tell you. Neither of us really know but I think that the logic to suggest that a man who hated us enough to make a mural on his palace walls depicting Iraqi airplanes crashing into the towers is as much a hint as anything.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Really you are deluding yourself if you think the world had a positive opinion of us prior to this war. They tolerated us. They didn't like us. 9-11 showed the world as it really felt.

I think that alot of people think everything would have stayed the same if it wasn't for the war but things had started changing dramatically with the bombing of the USS Cole. 911 just iced it.

If you think Saddam had nothing at all to do with 911 I don't know what to tell you. Neither of us really know but I think that the logic to suggest that a man who hated us enough to make a mural on his palace walls depicting Iraqi airplanes crashing into the towers is as much a hint as anything.

Actually everyone with any sense has admitted that there was no saddam-9/11 link

[Wookie]

What Kinda Poll is that , Absolutley STUPID , Nothing is worth having 3000 AMERICANS killed , i was in Desert Storm Round 1 in 90,91 and 92 , and the guys are goin thru so much more than what i had to worry about , this poll and thread should be removed

[Fluffybunny]

If you think Saddam had nothing at all to do with 911 I don't know what to tell you. Neither of us really know but I think that the logic to suggest that a man who hated us enough to make a mural on his palace walls depicting Iraqi airplanes crashing into the towers is as much a hint as anything.

Perhaps you can link to some proof that iraq had involvement in 9/11?

Even the 9/11 commision didn't find that link. There are many countries that hate us, that does not mean they were involved with 9/11.

[Fluffybunny]

this poll and thread should be removed

If we removed every thread that someone disagreed with there would not be any threads left.

[truethat]

Perhaps you can link to some proof that iraq had involvement in 9/11?

Even the 9/11 commision didn't find that link. There are many countries that hate us, that does not mean they were involved with 9/11.

I just don't see how anyone can say this with a straight face. I'm not talking every country. I'm talking Saddam. I'm not saying her orchestrated 9-11 but I certainly think he funded it.

What evidence? How about this: He offered rewards to suicide bombers? If he did this in the public eye I can only imagine what he enabled behind the scenes. What do you want? A check that's signed by Saddam that says "For Terrorism" in the memo line?

One of the biggest problems I think in the world today is the blatant refusal to accept how simple and easy it is for someone to set something like this up. I don't think he set it up. But take a movie. You want to make a movie that costs 100 million dollars first you have to find a studio to back it. Saddam backed LOTS of movies and there isn't a neat little paper trail to prove it.

[el midgetron]

World Wide Issues?

Hmm how about the state of India right now for starters and the state of China. How about how the EU is shaping up. How about the conflict in Cyprus that seems to be coming out better. Perhaps the war that's brewing in Somalia? How about Castro's condition in Cuba? How about Iran and North Korea and what's going to happen with that. How about the huge crack that was just found in a glacier in the Arctic that is going to flow into work areas when it thaws? How about how Indonesia is recovering from the Tsunami and how about New Orleans and its recovery?

Are you implying these things effect us? America, America, America........................lol. So should people worry about "America" or not? You damn them if they do, and damn them if they don't. I would suggest "liberals" concerns, which you demonize, are a reflection of where our government spends its energy. The people in New Orleans got screwed but that has nothing to do with America??? lol

I could go on and on and on........pretty sad that you though three was such a show stopping number. You just proved my point. And I see you made the O'Reilly reference. I can honestly say I don't watch television or read anything that O'Reilly has said. What a joke.

Proved your point? lol Your point is that there are "world wide" issues that we should be concerned about. Yet, if we somehow address "Americas" relation to these issuse, then we are some how allways screaming America America America.....?? Your point was, that no one should criticize America. If anyone says anything about requiring "America" to take responisiblity or action for any of the above issuse, you would fall back on "why is everything got to be about America, cant we just run around and do whatever we like"??

[truethat]

Where did I ever say No one should criticize America?

See what a joke you guys have become. Entirely predictable and just totally tunnel vision.

Its not ABOUT America. America isn't the be all end all. Its a friggin planet and there is a lot more going on than AMERICA. America is just ONE country on the planet and there are issues you don't even know about because your head is stuck so far up your own butt all you can see is yourself.

World Hunger? Global Warming? Say we get our butts kicked. So then what? Not really too much as far as the rest of the world is concerned. They have their own issues they are dealing with. Try taking a look at the far East. Japan for example China? Try looking around. We aren't the only thing that matters.

[el midgetron]

If you think Saddam had nothing at all to do with 911 I don't know what to tell you. Neither of us really know but I think that the logic to suggest that a man who hated us enough to make a mural on his palace walls depicting Iraqi airplanes crashing into the towers is as much a hint as anything.

Thats all it takes for you to condone the death and destruction in Iraq, a "hint"? Just as long as it has nothing to do with "America" in your mind............

I just don't see how anyone can say this with a straight face. I'm not talking every country. I'm talking Saddam. I'm not saying her orchestrated 9-11 but I certainly think he funded it.

You are welcome to believe whatever you like but there isnt a shread of evidence to support it. There is however alot of evidence that the Bush gang twisted and falsifide information to justify the war in Iraq. But considering real evidence makes some one a "liberal" who cries "America, America, America"....

What evidence? How about this: He offered rewards to suicide bombers? If he did this in the public eye I can only imagine what he enabled behind the scenes. What do you want? A check that's signed by Saddam that says "For Terrorism" in the memo line?

So, all terrorism is about "America"?. Sheash, its allway "America, America, America" from you. Saddam didnt like "America" but neither does alot of leaders. There is no evidence to support your view.

So, Saddam wrote a check to some of Osamas terrorists? And wrote "for terrorism" on it? lol Please, a link to more info would be great.

One of the biggest problems I think in the world today is the blatant refusal to accept how simple and easy it is for someone to set something like this up. I don't think he set it up. But take a movie. You want to make a movie that costs 100 million dollars first you have to find a studio to back it. Saddam backed LOTS of movies and there isn't a neat little paper trail to prove it.

Well, we should bomb anyone who makes movies then........................ Even though Saddam hated "America" he didnt make alliances with Al Quaeda because he didnt trust them. If he was such a big supporter of AlQuaeda why wasnt there any training camps in Iraq like there were in Afganistan? Think about it or just go ahead an believe anything you are told.

[truethat]

yawn. You'd think after 4 years of the same spew that you'd be able to think of something new to say. Nope. LMAO.

[Timon]

The elitism that goes on on these boards is absurd. Just because someone has a diffrent view then you doesn't give you the right to call them stupid or blind or any other adjective that tries to put yourself above the person your arguing with. I guess thats just the beauty of the internet, you can call someone stupid for thier views without any fear making it down right cowardly. Go have a debate at your local bar and call some one stupid cause they don't agrue with your views on government, see how far that gets you. No, really try it, you won't and you know why? It's what I like to call "Keyboard Courage."

[mychemicalromance]

The damn war wasnt about sadam you ****ing idiot!!! It was to keep 28,000 terrorists from taking over after sadam was caught! Im only 14 and I know that.... Dip sh**s

[el midgetron]

Where did I ever say No one should criticize America?

See what a joke you guys have become. Entirely predictable and just totally tunnel vision.

"tunnel vision"....interesting choice of words.

Its not ABOUT America. America isn't the be all end all. Its a friggin planet and there is a lot more going on than AMERICA. America is just ONE country on the planet and there are issues you don't even know about because your head is stuck so far up your own butt all you can see is yourself.

So, we shouldnt care about the war on terroism because it makes us bad "Americans"? This is exactly what I said you would do. Bring up "world wide" issuse but if anyone notes our ("Americas") relation to those issuses, then they are a liberal who only cares about America.... Somewhere you are going to have to accept that no matter the issue, "world wide" or domestic, America has to act responibily and in full account of its actions. You have your head so tightly gripped by your "masters" that you cant see this yourself.

World Hunger? Global Warming? Say we get our butts kicked. So then what? Not really too much as far as the rest of the world is concerned. They have their own issues they are dealing with. Try taking a look at the far East. Japan for example China? Try looking around. We aren't the only thing that matters.

So its a big world, how does this give America free licence to do whatever it likes?? All you are doing is trying to shift the blame from the Bush gang to those who criticise them by saying "liberals" dont care about the rest of the world. lol yeah. How does criticism of the War in Iraq mean we dont care about these issues?? The topic was the 3,000 dead and Iraq, why do you want to shift blame onto us for discussing it when they best argument you have is that we should be arguing about something else? Whats your masters doing about these issues?

[el midgetron]

yawn. You'd think after 4 years of the same spew that you'd be able to think of something new to say. Nope. LMAO.

Its the "liberals" they dont care about the world!!! Why does everything have to be about America??? lol your a tool. When your empty arguments run dry you fall back on your fail-safe opt-out and hide.

[truethat]

Where did I ever say America can do whatever it likes? You see you guys from the get go have it down pat. Anyone who isn't immediately against the war is a bible thumping O'Reilly fan. Then its Bush is bad.....repeat indefinitely

Then its neocon Republican, Fox junkie, etc etc etc.

You remind me of those people who make bunkers in the desert stocked with canned goods and rifles.

If we lose this war it will be another Vietnam and be one small part of the reality of the world. I am telling you that ALL you can see is America and the war. And there is far more to the reality of the world than just this. We are just one part of many things going on.....and some of them....SHOCKER.....are more important than the war in Iraq.

Edited January 2, 2007 by truethat

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Where did I ever say America can do whatever it likes? You see you guys from the get go have it down pat. Anyone who isn't immediately against the war is a bible thumping O'Reilly fan. Then its Bush is bad.....repeat indefinitely

Then its neocon Republican, Fox junkie, etc etc etc.

You remind me of those people who make bunkers in the desert stocked with canned goods and rifles.

If we lose this war it will be another Vietnam and be one small part of the reality of the world. I am telling you that ALL you can see is America and the war. And there is far more to the reality of the world than just this. We are just one part of many things going on.....and some of them....SHOCKER.....are more important than the war in Iraq.

Vietnam didn't mean the end of the wrold, and Iraq won't either, you're just playing into their hands

[The Silver Thong]

I just don't see how anyone can say this with a straight face. I'm not talking every country. I'm talking Saddam. I'm not saying her orchestrated 9-11 but I certainly think he funded it.

What evidence? How about this: He offered rewards to suicide bombers? If he did this in the public eye I can only imagine what he enabled behind the scenes. What do you want? A check that's signed by Saddam that says "For Terrorism" in the memo line?

One of the biggest problems I think in the world today is the blatant refusal to accept how simple and easy it is for someone to set something like this up. I don't think he set it up. But take a movie. You want to make a movie that costs 100 million dollars first you have to find a studio to back it. Saddam backed LOTS of movies and there isn't a neat little paper trail to prove it.

Truethat how can you make these claims with a strieght face? If you were willing to listen and learn you would know full well that there is no link between Sadam/Iraq to 9/11. If you won't believe any of us maybe you might listen to your own president.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/september11/stor...1870427,00.html

To add you think 9/11 would have been easy to set up? WOW I can't imagine it to be anything but almost imposible to set up. As far as 3000 dead soldiers and more to come being worth it. No I don't believe it's worh it at all.

[el midgetron]

Where did I ever say America can do whatever it likes?

Thats what your argument amounts to. The worlds a big place, but according to you people who talk about Americas role in that world doesnt care about the rest of it.

Anyone who isn't immediately against the war is a bible thumping O'Reilly fan. Then its Bush is bad.....repeat indefinitely

Then its neocon Republican, Fox junkie, etc etc etc.

And anyone who disagrees with your view is a nutty liberal who only sees America. I believe you need to fix a window in your glass house.

You remind me of those people who make bunkers in the desert stocked with canned goods and rifles.

You remind me of the Greman civilains who volenteered to work in death camps. Gee wizz, its for the good of the fatherland, so why ask questions?

If we lose this war it will be another Vietnam and be one small part of the reality of the world. I am telling you that ALL you can see is America and the war. And there is far more to the reality of the world than just this. We are just one part of many things going on.....and some of them....SHOCKER.....are more important than the war in Iraq.

Sounds like you are allready tring to cover your butt for the time when you cant avoid the fact you support a false war. "oh theres more important things in the world than Iraq....." Well, if thats the case, what are you masters doing about those other things? Why don't you start a thread to discuss them????

Don't look at the man behind the curtian, theres more inportant things in the world..........................

[Ashigaru]

El midgetron could be replaced with a parrot and nobody would know the difference.

FYI: Arguing against opinions with opinions does nothing to prove a point. Not that you have one anyways.

Your "argument" can be broken down to the intellectual equivalent to nuh-uh.

Edited January 3, 2007 by Ashigaru

[el midgetron]

El midgetron could be replaced with a parrot and nobody would know the difference.

FYI: Arguing against opinions with opinions does nothing to prove a point. Not that you have one anyways.

Your "argument" can be broken down to the intellectual equivalent to nuh-uh.

lol its the sassiest 19 year old hick in Kansas. No ghosts to hunt today Ashigaru?

Some pretty fancy words for you. However, FYI: Arguing against opinions with opinions is all that truethat has been doing. The lack of any substance to his "opinions" has been pointed out more than once. I doubt you even read this thread before you jumped in to vent your teen angst. If you had read it, you might have understood my point. Then again, knowing you, maybe not but you could always have someone explain it to you.

You have shown you are unable to "break down" any argument witout "breaking down" like a barn-yard diva.

Thanks for the post Ashigaru, another of your famous posts which contribute nothing to the discussion. I know you try though and I would say "come back when you have something intelligent to say" but I know you wont let that stop you.

[Ashigaru]

Despite my absence you have not changed your ways at all. Still ever looking for someone to argue with about how they phrased a sentence or just going directly to mocking them.

Surely you can come up with a better word than "hick". Perhaps you should borrow someones thesaurus , or better yet buy one.

The first part of the FYI was directed at both of you, the second was directed at you. Perhaps I should have made that more clear.

You have shown you are unable to "break down" any argument witout "breaking down" like a barn-yard diva.

I would expect as much from a half-wit such as you.

Before you make your rather crude comments about contribution to a thread perhaps you should consider making some form of contribution yourself.

Edited January 3, 2007 by Ashigaru

[The Silver Thong]

Despite my absence you have not changed your ways at all. Still ever looking for someone to argue with about how they phrased a sentence or just going directly to mocking them.

Surely you can come up with a better word than "hick". Perhaps you should borrow someones thesaurus , or better yet buy one.

The first part of the FYI was directed at both of you, the second was directed at you. Perhaps I should have made that more clear.

I would expect as much from a half-wit such as you.

Before you make your rather crude comments about contribution to a thread perhaps you should consider making some form of contribution yourself.

Actualy Ashigaru,el midgetron has made his point and his stance very clear, however you have not! I don't care your age nor where you come from that matters none. However you did jump in and attack. Lets cut the personal BS and talk about whats at hand. If you were to look at the war ie Iraqi war do you think it was worth 3000 american lives plus countless others? If you do believe so please tell us why. If you can not do that,then take a back seat and save the my opinion is better then your opinion crap. I;m wondering what your thoughts are on the hanging of Sadam and the fall out? Has the removal of Sadam made a difference? or will Iraq fall back into a regime that the u.s. still has no power over?

Edited January 3, 2007 by The Silver Thong

[Ashigaru]

Really? He's made clear statement on where he stands on the issue at hand? I would like to see that post. All I see is him arguing with truethat over completely irrelevant issues.

Are any wars worth the casualties to the average person? No.

I think the death of a dictator who murders his own people is a good thing though.

The hanging of Saddam will only have a short-term political impact. Its more of a "hey look what we did, see we're making progress" type thing and it will be in the background with the violence in the forefront again within a month.

Edited January 3, 2007 by Ashigaru

[The Silver Thong]

Really? He's made clear statement on where he stands on the issue at hand? I would like to see that post. All I see is him arguing with truethat over completely irrelevant issues.

Are any wars worth the casualties to the average person? No.

I think the death of a dictator who terroizes his own people is a good thing.

The hanging of Saddam will only have a short-term political impact. Its more of a "hey look what we did, see we're making progress" type thing and it will be in the background with the violence in the forefront again within a month.

I do think he has made his stance clear and you have not read everything he has said. Never mind that though. Truethat has his own issues that he refuses to see through someone elses eye's and there for posts some pretty radical thinking.

You asked are any wars worth casualities to the "average person" I would say so yes! How many mothers lose there son's? how many son's follow their father's footsteps and join the corp? How many men and women are promised education and a chance to see the world? I think many average people have had to go through the hard times of war. Let alone the young men and women aged 18-24 that die for something they believe in but don't understand. These are all average people, what makes you think a soldier is different? We could all be soldiers even a 10 year old as you see in the middle east with an ak 47 he's considered a soldier, whybecause he is told he is........ When you look at the average joe/jane on the street yes maybe they are nieve to whats going on, but thats in your country. The media plays a big role in what the American people think about the war. How many average American's go on line and search for other sources that may condradict what they have been told by there own media? Not many !!!!!!!!!! and the one's that do become the one's that actualy care and know this war is crap.

No matter the war is there and won't end in any fashion the American "public" will expect. It will be called a withdrawl not a defeat. That is the mistake you will make, thinking it was a victory when in reality it was for nothing, such as Vietnam. Not that I dare compare the 2 but for what ends will it be. Will democracy reign in Iraq? or will Iraq fall to another dictatorship when they leave? This is what the post is about. Was it worh it? ?????

Quote

"The hanging of Saddam will only have a short-term political impact. Its more of a "hey look what we did, see we're making progress" type thing and it will be in the background with the violence in the forefront again within a month."

A short term thing hmmm these people don't forgive and forget very quick. Please do tell what kind of progress the hanging of Sadam might have? He has family far intrenched, family being protected in Jordan. His name will not die anytime soon. Trust me or not, the tape of his death will fuel the fire.