How to Build Your Indian Flying Machine

[greggK]

The natural laws of this atmosphere now are so different from the laws of nature in the ancient times. There was so much more pure hydrogen, and pure helium. But, ask yourself what would make you fly? They fill balloons with helium.

In the ancient times they did not have the carbon in the atmosphere to weigh you down. And what about the gravity? What causes gravity? If it were not by the metallic elements in your flesh, you could fly. In ancient times, you could fly for short periods like skipping and each skip would be some distance. Why? In the ancient times, they did not have or did not care to have the oil that we use now. And we get it now by drilling and the supply of oil between the metallic core and the surface is being drained and there is no buffer between the gigantic magnet and the surface. That is why we are weighed down to this earth. The more carbon we put in the atmosphere and the more metallic elements we put in our bodies, the more we become attracted to the huge magnet in the center of the earth.

[Saard]

The natural laws of this atmosphere now are so different from the laws of nature in the ancient times. There was so much more pure hydrogen, and pure helium. But, ask yourself what would make you fly? They fill balloons with helium.

In the ancient times they did not have the carbon in the atmosphere to weigh you down. And what about the gravity? What causes gravity? If it were not by the metallic elements in your flesh, you could fly. In ancient times, you could fly for short periods like skipping and each skip would be some distance. Why? In the ancient times, they did not have or did not care to have the oil that we use now. And we get it now by drilling and the supply of oil between the metallic core and the surface is being drained and there is no buffer between the gigantic magnet and the surface. That is why we are weighed down to this earth. The more carbon we put in the atmosphere and the more metallic elements we put in our bodies, the more we become attracted to the huge magnet in the center of the earth.

Yeah! Tell you what, screw the original plan; I'm going with this theory, it's far more entertaining.

If I cut down on the iron in my diet, I reckon I could save money on air-fares.

[Harte]

The natural laws of this atmosphere now are so different from the laws of nature in the ancient times. There was so much more pure hydrogen, and pure helium.

Actually, no there wasn't more helium or hydrogen. And the "laws of nature" were, of course, exactly the same as they are today.

In the ancient times they did not have the carbon in the atmosphere to weigh you down.

There was a time in the very ancient past that the atmosphere was almost totally comprised of carbon dioxide. Also, "carbon in the atmosophere" would certainly not "weigh you down." On the contrary, a more dense atmosphere (which it what you seem to imply) would actually make you lighter, as dictated by Archimedes principle of bouyancy.

And what about the gravity? What causes gravity? If it were not by the metallic elements in your flesh, you could fly. In ancient times, you could fly for short periods like skipping and each skip would be some distance.

There are no more "metallic elements in your flesh" today than there were in ancient times. Also, only nickle and iron exhibit magnetic properties, so lumping all the "metallic elements" together is just silly. Plus, the force of gravity is trillions of times stronger at the Earth's surface than is the magnetic attraction supplied by the Earth's geomagnetism.

In the ancient times, they did not have or did not care to have the oil that we use now. And we get it now by drilling and the supply of oil between the metallic core and the surface is being drained and there is no buffer between the gigantic magnet and the surface. That is why we are weighed down to this earth.

The tiny amounts of petroleum products extracted from the earth's crust (tiny compared to the rest of the crust) never provided any "buffer." Petoleum is non-magnetic and thus cannot possibly provide such a "buffer." Weight has nothing at all to do with magnetism.

It's obvious to me that you need to do a little homework. I mean, everybody knows that we are stuck to the Earth's surface, not by magnetism, but by the magical snot of the Lord God. It is this viscuous, yet permeable and completely undetectable Divine Mucus which prevents us from flying.

Harte

[Saard]

Hello again,

That newspaper (Kesari newspaper of Pune) never got back to me to confirm whether or not they covered the story (it'll be in their archives).

The problem is, the website is not in English and I sent an email in English.

Unlike me, they're probably not so lazy as to only speak the one language and almost certainly read, understood and didn't reply to my email.

Anyway, I still think it might help if someone emailed them in the right language and politely asked them to verify if they covered the story.

The language is probably Marathi or Hindi, but don't quote me on that.

In my original email, I simply asked them to verify that they covered Shivkar Bapuji Talpade's experiments in unmanned flight on Chowpathy beach, Bombay in 1895.

I kept the details simple as I don't know what the Hindi for 'kook' or 'lunatic' is, but didn't want to be dubbed one and have my email binned.

And I'm sorry, but I don't have a better date than 1895.

Does anyone speak either Hindi or Marathi (or another language that it might be) and can spare five minutes for an email?

If you're game, the website's link is below and the 'contact them' link is on the bottom right-hand corner of the homepage.

You'll find the story's details as the initial post on this thread.

Thanks in advance if anyone does this.

http://www.indiapress.org/gen/news.php/Daily_Kesari/400x60/0

[RabidCat]

Some additional info should be here.

David Hatcher Childress has written a book on this subject. Regardless of anyone's opinion of Childress, it's worth checking it out. I'll go down to my library and find the title.

Viktor Schauberger, a researcher into natural phenomena (actually a forest ranger), both printed and patented a number of researches on vortex technology. Schauberger was recruited (forcefully) into Nazi aircraft programs, and reportedly developed a vortex turbine. The materials on Schauberger can be found through google. The turbine is not fully understood, but apparently does work, as a number of examples have been built.

Since the Vimana in question worked via the mercury vortex, it would be wise before debunking to research what we do and don't know about the vortex. Know this: university and laboratory research on the subject leaves many questions open.

So the question becomes more what did they (ancients) know that we don't?

[RabidCat]

The book is "Vimana Aircraft of Ancient India and Atlantis". The book, true or false, provides a good read. Also must remember that Childress doesn't just make this stuff up. The Atlantis "competition" was apparently called "vailx".

Another interesting bit is the character who claims to have discovered how ancients in the "New world" had propulsive means similar to the vimana vortex, although a bit different. The website is http://quantumgravitics.tripod.com/ if anyone is interested.

One of the major universities had a project on vortex action, though the intent was based on tornadoes and the extensive damage they cause. I have one of the papers on this, somewhere in my library, and if I can find it I'll reference the thing.

There is a company in California that builds vortex disposals for industrial purposes. The vortex is used because of its capability to reduce solids into fine particulate matter.

All these books I've acquired as diversionary. These books, among many others, reside alongside many books on electronics, math, calculus, physics, chemistry, et cetera, that I've used in my work as a control systems engineer. In some cases, I make no claims as to the validity of those books; in other cases, they are valid and scientifically reasonable as starting points for research.

I will say this: If one is inclined to remain in the mainstream and expect mundane answers to these questions, perhaps it is better for that individual to stay well clear of such subjects. As has been stated, the more you know, the more you find you don't know.

[Saard]

So you don't speak Hindi, then?

Childress thought everyone and their dog could fly.

Once again, i'm after a Hindi or Marathi speaker who can send a quick email to a newspaper, asking them to verify whether they covered a story. The details are two posts back.

I'm also hoping someone out there has some more info about a chap called Shivkar Bapuji Talpade and his experiments.

Thanks for all these posts about ancient flying machines, really, but I want to narrow a search, not widen it.

So charitable Indian speakers or Shivkar know-it-alls, please step forward.

[godofwar21]

Although this has all the makings of crack pot theory .The part about NASA using the ancient vedic text for research is actually true.I do recall reading something about it in the times of india right on the fron page(Which does account for some credibility).The text they are referring to is known as the rig veda.I found something similar on another discussion site.Heres an exercpt.

"The Rig Veda, the oldest document of the human race includes references to the following modes of transportation: Jalayan - a vehicle designed to operate in air and water (Rig Veda 6.58.3); Kaara- Kaara- Kaara- a vehicle that operates on ground and in water. (Rig Veda 9.14.1); Tritala- Tritala- Tritala- a vehicle consisting of three stories. (Rig Veda 3.14.1); Trichakra Ratha - Trichakra Ratha - Trichakra Ratha - a three-wheeled vehicle designed to operate in the air. (Rig Veda 4.36.1); Vaayu Ratha- Vaayu Ratha- Vaayu Ratha- a gas or wind-powered chariot. (Rig Veda 5.41.6); Vidyut Ratha- Vidyut Ratha- Vidyut Ratha- a vehicle that operates on power. (Rig Veda 3.14.1).

Ancient Sanskrit literature is full of descriptions of flying machines - Vimanas. From the many documents found it is evident that the scientist-sages Agastya and Bharadwaja had developed the lore of aircraft construction.

The "Agastya Samhita" gives us Agastya's descriptions of two types of aeroplanes. The first is a "chchatra" (umbrella or balloon) to be filled with hydrogen. The process of extracting hydrogen from water is described in elaborate detail and the use of electricity in achieving this is clearly stated. This was stated to be a primitive type of plane, useful only for escaping from a fort when the enemy had set fire to the jungle all around. Hence the name "Agniyana". The second type of aircraft mentioned is somewhat on the lines of the parachute. It could be opened and shut by operating chords. This aircraft has been described as "vimanadvigunam" i.e. of a lower order than the regular aeroplane.

Bhardwaja's "Vaimanika Shastra" not only gives information on his methods of aeroplane construction but also provides a bibliography. He had consulted six treatises by six different authors previous to him. After him too there have been four commentaries on his work. Planes which will not break (abhedya), or catch fire (adaahya) and which cannot be cut (achchedya) have also been described. Along with the treatise there are diagrams of three types of aeroplanes - "Sundara", "Shukana" and "Rukma".

It appears that aerial warfare was also not unknown, for the treatise gives the technique of "shatru vimana kampana kriya" and "shatru vimana nashana kriya" i.e. shaking and destroying enemy aircraft, as well as photographing enemy planes, rendering their occupants unconscious and making one's own plane invisible.

The Arthasastra of Kautilya (c. 3rd century B.C.) mentions amongst various tradesmen and technocrats the Saubhikas as 'pilots conducting vehicles in the sky'. Saubha was the name of the aerial flying city of King Harishchandra and the form 'Saubika' means 'one who flies or knows the art of flying an aerial city'. Kautilya uses another significant word 'Akasa Yodhinah', which has been translated as 'persons who are trained to fight from the sky.' The existence of aerial chariots, in whatever form it might be, was so well-known that it found a place among the royal edicts of the Emperor Asoka which were executed during his reign from 256 B.C. - 237 B. C."

The mahabharata is filled with refferences which may sound similar to flying machines and what not.Even if you read the bible you will find many accounts similar to the description of a far advanced ufo or flying machine.For that matter the accounts of soddom and gommorah has all the makings that may look like a nuclear catastrophe.Pretty scary stuff isn't it.Since the veda is possibly oldest possible document aspect of the vedas there is little question about the credibility.

[Harte]

Although this has all the makings of crack pot theory .

Dear God,

You should have stopped there.

The part about NASA using the ancient vedic text for research is actually true.I do recall reading something about it in the times of india right on the fron page(Which does account for some credibility).The text they are referring to is known as the rig veda.I found something similar on another discussion site.Heres an exercpt.

"The Rig Veda, the oldest document of the human race...

(My emphasis)

Actually composed "roughly between 1700–1100 BCE " Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigveda. That's a "mere" two thousand years or more after the actual "oldest document of the Human race" found thus far - in ancient Sumeria.

includes references to the following modes of transportation...

The "Agastya Samhita" gives us Agastya's descriptions of two types of aeroplanes. The first is a "chchatra" (umbrella or balloon) to be filled with hydrogen. The process of extracting hydrogen from water is described in elaborate detail and the use of electricity in achieving this is clearly stated. This was stated to be a primitive type of plane, useful only for escaping from a fort when the enemy had set fire to the jungle all around. Hence the name "Agniyana". The second type of aircraft mentioned is somewhat on the lines of the parachute. It could be opened and shut by operating chords. This aircraft has been described as "vimanadvigunam" i.e. of a lower order than the regular aeroplane.

Unfortunately the "Agastya Samhita" does not exist. Agastya Samhita means, roughly, "the collected works of Agastya" in Sanskrit. But see, Agastya was a legendary character. His "collected works" are about as valuable as the "collected works" of Paul Bunyan.

If you want to disbelieve me, fine. Go ahead and go with what morons claim that Agastya said. But I think that you should be aware that you are also believing that Agastya humbled the Vindhya mountains into ceasing to grow by using his guile. See, this mountain range had gotten too vain. So vain that in fact it had challenged the Sun, saying the Sun should go around rather than over. I wonder if Agastya's technologically advanced methods of communicating with a petulant mountain range are included in his Samhita. If not, why not?

Bhardwaja's "Vaimanika Shastra" not only gives information on his methods of aeroplane construction but also provides a bibliography. He had consulted six treatises by six different authors previous to him. After him too there have been four commentaries on his work. Planes which will not break (abhedya), or catch fire (adaahya) and which cannot be cut (achchedya) have also been described. Along with the treatise there are diagrams of three types of aeroplanes - "Sundara", "Shukana" and "Rukma".

This book, the Vimanyka Shastra, was written in the first part of the twentieth century.

The Arthasastra of Kautilya (c. 3rd century B.C.) mentions amongst various tradesmen and technocrats the Saubhikas as 'pilots conducting vehicles in the sky'. Saubha was the name of the aerial flying city of King Harishchandra and the form 'Saubika' means 'one who flies or knows the art of flying an aerial city'. Kautilya uses another significant word 'Akasa Yodhinah', which has been translated as 'persons who are trained to fight from the sky.'

The Arthasastra of Kautilya mentions neither the Saubhikas, Saubika, Harishchandra nor Yodhinah. Think I'm full of it? Then read it yourself!

The existence of aerial chariots, in whatever form it might be, was so well-known that it found a place among the royal edicts of the Emperor Asoka which were executed during his reign from 256 B.C. - 237 B. C."

Bull. Show me Asoka's royal edicts. Asoka had excellent foreign relations with the Greeks, yet they mention nothing like this.

The mahabharata is filled with refferences which may sound similar to flying machines and what not.

No, it's not. Really. Period.

How do I know? I looked.

...Since the veda is possibly oldest possible document aspect of the vedas there is little question about the credibility.

Old = credible, eh? Well, then, I suppose you ought to be about slaughtering a few calves to Zeus then, shouldn't you?

Harte

Edited February 16, 2007 by Harte

[ponakamad]

Dear God,

You should have stopped there.

(My emphasis)

Actually composed "roughly between 1700–1100 BCE " Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigveda. That's a "mere" two thousand years or more after the actual "oldest document of the Human race" found thus far - in ancient Sumeria.

Unfortunately the "Agastya Samhita" does not exist. Agastya Samhita means, roughly, "the collected works of Agastya" in Sanskrit. But see, Agastya was a legendary character. His "collected works" are about as valuable as the "collected works" of Paul Bunyan.

If you want to disbelieve me, fine. Go ahead and go with what morons claim that Agastya said. But I think that you should be aware that you are also believing that Agastya humbled the Vindhya mountains into ceasing to grow by using his guile. See, this mountain range had gotten too vain. So vain that in fact it had challenged the Sun, saying the Sun should go around rather than over. I wonder if Agastya's technologically advanced methods of communicating with a petulant mountain range are included in his Samhita. If not, why not?

This book, the Vimanyka Shastra, was written in the first part of the twentieth century.

The Arthasastra of Kautilya (c. 3rd century B.C.) mentions amongst various tradesmen and technocrats the Saubhikas as 'pilots conducting vehicles in the sky'. Saubha was the name of the aerial flying city of King Harishchandra and the form 'Saubika' means 'one who flies or knows the art of flying an aerial city'. Kautilya uses another significant word 'Akasa Yodhinah', which has been translated as 'persons who are trained to fight from the sky.'

The Arthasastra of Kautilya mentions neither the Saubhikas, Saubika, Harishchandra nor Yodhinah. Think I'm full of it? Then read it yourself!

bull. Show me Asoka's royal edicts. Asoka had excellent foreign relations with the Greeks, yet they mention nothing like this.

No, it's not. Really. Period.

How do I know? I looked.

Old = credible, eh? Well, then, I suppose you ought to be about slaughtering a few calves to Zeus then, shouldn't you?

Harte

[crystal sage]

I think they could have flown them to Egypt!!!!!

http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly/aa032000a.htm

"The Egyptian Airplane

In 1898, a peculiar six-inch wooden object was found in a tomb at Saqquara, Egypt that dated back to about 200 BCE. The object had a body or fuselage, seven-inch wings that curved downward slightly, a fixed rudder and a tail. It looked very much like a modern airplane or glider. But since airplanes had not yet been invented in 1898 (never mind ancient Egypt), it was labeled as a model of bird and stored away in the basement of the Cairo museum.

The object was rediscovered many years later by Dr. Khalil Messiha, an authority on ancient models. According to Messiha and others who have studied the object, it has characteristics of very advanced aerodynamics, much like modern pusher-gliders that require very little power to stay aloft. The curved wings are today known as reversedihedral wings, which can attain great amounts of lift. A similar design is employed on the supersonic Concorde aircraft.

Was this just a child's toy? Or was it a scale model of an aircraft the Egyptians planned to build... or did build. If they did build a full-scale version of the aircraft, no evidence exists for it. No full-size airplanes have been found in any pharaoh's tomb to fly him to the land of the dead.

The Carvings at Abydos....

http://www.kch42.dial.pipex.com/egypttour_abydos.htm

http://www.ufocom.org/pages/v_us/m_archeo/Abydos/abydos.html

http://travel.webshots.com/album/114547146SkQLEX?start=0

[ponakamad]

I think they could have flown them to Egypt!!!!!

http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly/aa032000a.htm

"The Egyptian Airplane

In 1898, a peculiar six-inch wooden object was found in a tomb at Saqquara, Egypt that dated back to about 200 BCE. The object had a body or fuselage, seven-inch wings that curved downward slightly, a fixed rudder and a tail. It looked very much like a modern airplane or glider. But since airplanes had not yet been invented in 1898 (never mind ancient Egypt), it was labeled as a model of bird and stored away in the basement of the Cairo museum.

The object was rediscovered many years later by Dr. Khalil Messiha, an authority on ancient models. According to Messiha and others who have studied the object, it has characteristics of very advanced aerodynamics, much like modern pusher-gliders that require very little power to stay aloft. The curved wings are today known as reversedihedral wings, which can attain great amounts of lift. A similar design is employed on the supersonic Concorde aircraft.

Was this just a child's toy? Or was it a scale model of an aircraft the Egyptians planned to build... or did build. If they did build a full-scale version of the aircraft, no evidence exists for it. No full-size airplanes have been found in any pharaoh's tomb to fly him to the land of the dead.

The Carvings at Abydos....

http://www.kch42.dial.pipex.com/egypttour_abydos.htm

http://www.ufocom.org/pages/v_us/m_archeo/Abydos/abydos.html

http://travel.webshots.com/album/114547146SkQLEX?start=0

[ponakamad]

Hi everybody,

Joined this forum recently.Its quite interesting to read the various posts.

As far as the initial post regarding the 1895 flight is concerned there is some news in the interesting news heading of a site called www.asnee.com.Apparently it is a small news item in anews paper called deccan herald.

I met a gentleman two months back who has been trying to decipher the vimanika shashtra since the past twenty years(almost)out of his own interest in his spare time.With the deciphered data ,which took a lot of effort and interaction with experts from various fields including ayurveda and (some revelations of the kekule -graphite rings type),he has synthesised 3 alloys and is proposing to synthesise some glasses too.The 3 alloys synthesised, are new compositions with no known modern equivalents and so he is trying to patent them.The synthesis has been done on a very small scale, due to the nature of the process and due to the fact that the researcher is employed in a totally different field.

Since he has been able to synthesise the materials it is definitely possible for a more focussed and bigger team to be able to decipher and synthesise more materials.

Once it is possible to do so, we can wonder and work out in leisure why such materials were developed by ancient cultures(ancient humans all over the world).This requires an open mind and a willingness to rigorously apply the modern scientific methodologies to separate fact from fiction.

According to the gentleman i met ,the ancients'approach to science was linked to spirituality and for various reasons not yet clear certain knowledge was not explicitly given.One had to have certain mental attributes and a certain amount of training in specific disciplines(both material and spiritual) before one could access and comprehend what was being given in the texts/hymns/verses etc.Our ancients had extensive knowledge of materials-why and how they acquired

the knowledge may have to be figured out.

Tried posting twice today morning but couldn't do so.I hope i succeed now.Essential details of the post are the same with a little more info on the researcher and the materials synthesised by him.

[esaruoho]

Some additional info should be here.

David Hatcher Childress has written a book on this subject. Regardless of anyone's opinion of Childress, it's worth checking it out. I'll go down to my library and find the title.

Viktor Schauberger, a researcher into natural phenomena (actually a forest ranger), both printed and patented a number of researches on vortex technology. Schauberger was recruited (forcefully) into Nazi aircraft programs, and reportedly developed a vortex turbine. The materials on Schauberger can be found through google. The turbine is not fully understood, but apparently does work, as a number of examples have been built.

Since the Vimana in question worked via the mercury vortex, it would be wise before debunking to research what we do and don't know about the vortex. Know this: university and laboratory research on the subject leaves many questions open.

So the question becomes more what did they (ancients) know that we don't?

are you talking about "Childress.-.Antigravity.and.the.world.grid.(1987)" ? or some other book where he references schauberger?

schauberger developed many things related to "vortex", like the jet-turbine for electricity production, the home-power-station (heimkraftwerk) for imploding water for increased movement and speed = generation of energy, and so on and so forth. he wrote a great deal, most of which is translated by callum coats in his eco-technology series (vol. 1 water wizard vol.2 nature as teacher vol.3 fertile earth vol.4 energy evolution). however, even tho these have taken decades to do, they're still not the full picture. it would be best to know german, and then read what he wrote originally (apparently a lot of his writings have been published in Implosion Magazine (currently at around way more than 150 issues).

if you know an university which studies cavitation, water-hammer-effect, effects of resonance in cavities, and fluid dynamics, please get them to order the Pöpel report from the university of stuttgart (made in 1952). its in the german language, but translations of it are available in energy evolution (callum coats). if people were to replicate those pöpel report experiments, we'd finally have some answers. they reported negative friction, etc.

i mean, schauberger got as far as getting a university professor to test his copper pipes, surely a university would like to study the results/report of another university, and replicate them, especially if there is a chance that there are details in the report that have not been addressed by modern fluid dynamics.

[crystal sage]

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewphoto/12...lying_Triangle/

for real?

[Qoais]

Ancient Flying Machines

http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_7.htm

Ian Sanderson took a reproduction of this object to an aeronautical engineer, not telling him what it was, and asked him to analyze it. The engineer said that in his opinion it was a type of aircraft that we have not yet designed or achieved. The craft in his opinion was designed to leave the earth’s atmosphere and reenter it. The front of the plane was designed to fold down to create a heat shield in front of the craft to prevent it from burning up on reentry. You can see that in this sketch:

http://www.philipcoppens.com/bbl_plane.html

Edited June 25, 2008 by Qoais

[ashini]

Hello all,

A while ago I came across an intriguing story online that I'd like someone to debunk please, mostly because it's a little too cool to be true.

I apologise if this has been dealt with before, but I did a site search on the bloke's name and it came up empty.

Anyway, in 1895, on a beach in front of dozens of journalists and other witnesses, a Sanskrit Scholar called Shivkar Bapuji Talpade presented an unmanned machine that flew about a hundred feet into the air. He claimed to have based all the technology for his machine on ancient Vedic writings. His device used a mercury vortex engine, a technology NASA are currently working on. There are apparently loads of other old writings, dealing, in depth, with navagation, transportation, military applications, preferred flying techniques and so on. These (Vaimanika Sastra - Aeronautical Science) and other writings suggest that a handful of an elite cast in an otherwise historically predictable society somehow had the technology to create flying machines.

I want this debunked because I don't want to go around believing something untrue, especially something I'd very much like to be true. I've looked online on this subject a lot and there are various different off-shoots up to and including ancient nuclear wars. I thought I'd start small and try to find if Mr Talpade did actually do this infront of all these credible witnesses. I ran aground in people's enthusiasm for Stargate-style histories in favour of anything resembling fact. Short of going to India and looking in the paper's achives, I'm not sure how to check this out.

Has anyone already researched this or know anything about Shivkar Bapuji Talpade's claims?

Thanks!

[ashini]

Hi Saard

I read this entire thread out of curiosity coz the links given featured article written by me on Book-Of-Thoth.

Very serious question,how much interested are you in finding out what exactly Shivkar Bapuji did ?

I can answer questions if I dont get comments like all articles are mirror images of each other.

Kesari was a newspaper edited by Bal Gangadhar Tilak in Marathi. The very fact when this article was printed in Kesari Bal Gangadhar himself was editor gives it complete credibility. Also presence of Maharaja of Vadodara Sayajirao Gaikwad the time Shivkar Bapuji did his demo again makes you take these things seriousely.

Forget Vaimanika Shastra ,ask any Sanskrit scholar Samagraha Sutradhara. Copies of this are extremely easily available. Just like Lilawati about maths and Rasa Ratna Samucchay about chemistry.

How serious are people here about Indian History ? Will anyone tell me on what historical basis following statements were made by members

Agastya Muni was mythological?

Vedas were written 2000 years AFTER sumerians ?I would love to know sources beyond internet articles.

Lastly Shivkar Bapuji's craft only flew upto 20 Meter hight and crashed within 17 minutes ,hence was largely a failure but had his bid for money been granted he might have gone in annals of history. Its a sad story of a simple Indian not pushy enough to reach his goals. Are you aware Jagadish Chandra Bose the famous botanist had hit on the idea of radio before Marconi ,this is a documented fact ,but then that was 60 years after shivkar bapuji

If you dont believe leave it ,atleast if you are an Indian done encourage other foreigners to laugh at a man who thought years beyond his time

If you want the truth go to Kesari Office in Pune and check thru archives . The world of Indian History sadly is in labyrinths of manuscripts liking in places like Saraswati Mhal Library in Tanjore or Obscure places like Maharashtra Itihaas Saushodhak Mandal in Pune and not on internet and Romila Thapar Books.

[Harte]

Agastya Muni was mythological?

I don't see why you would be surprised at this. Or, do you actually believe that Agastya humbled the Vindhya mountains into ceasing to grow by using his guile?

Vedas were written 2000 years AFTER sumerians ?I would love to know sources beyond internet articles.

My statement was in response to:

"The Rig Veda, the oldest document of the human race...

While the Rig Veda certainly has roots in a much older oral traditiion, as far as can be told through meticulous scientific research, the first time it was written down was as of the time period I gave. Yes, 2,000 years after the earliest document ever found (which, yes again, was Sumerian.)

No doubt that the Sumerian myths also have a long oral tradition as well.

Harte

[manowar38]

ya i read some stuff about that all rite understanable if it is true why they would be so afraid to let that information to get out and would show what an advanced civiliation it must have ben to create the flying machines

[ashini]

I don't see why you would be surprised at this. Or, do you actually believe that Agastya humbled the Vindhya mountains into ceasing to grow by using his guile?

My statement was in response to:

While the Rig Veda certainly has roots in a much older oral traditiion, as far as can be told through meticulous scientific research, the first time it was written down was as of the time period I gave. Yes, 2,000 years after the earliest document ever found (which, yes again, was Sumerian.)

No doubt that the Sumerian myths also have a long oral tradition as well.

Harte

[Saard]

Hi Saard

I read this entire thread out of curiosity coz the links given featured article written by me on Book-Of-Thoth.

Very serious question,how much interested are you in finding out what exactly Shivkar Bapuji did ?

I can answer questions if I dont get comments like all articles are mirror images of each other.

Kesari was a newspaper edited by Bal Gangadhar Tilak in Marathi. The very fact when this article was printed in Kesari Bal Gangadhar himself was editor gives it complete credibility. Also presence of Maharaja of Vadodara Sayajirao Gaikwad the time Shivkar Bapuji did his demo again makes you take these things seriousely.

Forget Vaimanika Shastra ,ask any Sanskrit scholar Samagraha Sutradhara. Copies of this are extremely easily available. Just like Lilawati about maths and Rasa Ratna Samucchay about chemistry.

How serious are people here about Indian History ? Will anyone tell me on what historical basis following statements were made by members

Agastya Muni was mythological?

Vedas were written 2000 years AFTER sumerians ?I would love to know sources beyond internet articles.

Lastly Shivkar Bapuji's craft only flew upto 20 Meter hight and crashed within 17 minutes ,hence was largely a failure but had his bid for money been granted he might have gone in annals of history. Its a sad story of a simple Indian not pushy enough to reach his goals. Are you aware Jagadish Chandra Bose the famous botanist had hit on the idea of radio before Marconi ,this is a documented fact ,but then that was 60 years after shivkar bapuji

If you dont believe leave it ,atleast if you are an Indian done encourage other foreigners to laugh at a man who thought years beyond his time

If you want the truth go to Kesari Office in Pune and check thru archives . The world of Indian History sadly is in labyrinths of manuscripts liking in places like Saraswati Mhal Library in Tanjore or Obscure places like Maharashtra Itihaas Saushodhak Mandal in Pune and not on internet and Romila Thapar Books.

Thanks very much for your reply, Ashini.

I'm not Indian and I'm, I think, about 5000 miles away from Pune, so a visit to their archives is an undertaking a bit above and beyond.

The post about Mr Talpade was the first I ever made on this forum, about two years ago now. It keeps sinking down into the archives and then gets pulled back out again, (most recently by me, apologies to the weary). I think that's testimony to something or other.

I haven't got any further with it. I skimmed through the Mahabharata and found references to flying chariots, which sounded promising, but also to flying elephants which were less so. The most interesting text is the 11^th Century Samarangana Sutradhara and it's descriptions of the mercury engine. I've found translations of that particular chapter (31) all over the net, but not the book in its entirety. I may yet buy it. The fact that I haven’t done this in the two years since I originally posted this suggests I'm not as serious about Talpade as you'd hope and pretty lazy to boot.

That excerpt I repeatedly end up reading (the one describing the mercury and the lion roaring etc..) sounds very much like advanced science but not in enough detail to make a functioning engine, unless Talpade was very clever indeed.

I wonder if there were other books he may have used. Any suggestions, Ashini?

The texts you already mention are interesting. I have no knowledge of the history of maths, so I'm not sure if Lilavati was ahead of his time with his twelth century indeterminate equations (any mathematicians in the house?). If the rest of the book is anything like the quote on wiki however, it is certainly the most beautiful maths book I've ever heard of.

Rasaratnasamuccaya is tricky to get info on. From what I've read, it's a book about Indian alchemy, which puts me off slightly. I'm hoping that just because something's alchemical in origin, it doesn't mean that once the mysticism is stripped away, there's not some valid chemistry hiding behind it. I am similarly clueless as to whether this is ahead of its time.

An interesting fact I discovered about Indian Alchemy is that they loved their mercury and did all sorts of strange things to it (http://www.infinityfoundation.com/mandala/t_es/t_es_agraw_chemistry_frameset.htm ). It concerns me that perhaps in a multitude of random experiments recorded for posterity, one might crop up that sounds like science; monkeys, type writers, Shakespeare and all that.

My experience of this website is that most mysteries get explained pretty quickly and then the members of the forum who are actually very learned in their respective fields end up repeating themselves ad nauseum to people not prepared to accept a debunking.

I'll cope with a debunking, I'd rather it couldn't be, but I'll cope. Can anyone start with the Samarangana Sutradhara? This text has been mentioned elsewhere on the site, but I don't think I've actually seen it comprehensively ruled out. I know I'll be corrected if I'm wrong on this.

As far as good old Mr Talpade goes, I've still never seen a clipping or heard anything more than the original anecdote.

Oh for a scanned image!

Edited for grandma

Edited November 5, 2008 by Saard

[kidchaos]

hmm..

INDIAN + TONS OF FEATHERS + VODKA = INDIAN FLYING MACHINE

[ashini]

Hi Saard

Its ok to be lazy. Samagraha Sutradhara was like technical encyclopedia.

Lilawati was written by Bhaskaracharya. You must be aware as General Knowledge that Indians found out about zero as well as decimal system of counting. Ok both these discoveries belong to Bhaskaracharya.

If you check my article,ancient Indians never really made any machines,but they had figured theories. Also had Shivkar Bapuji gotten finance on time he would have made a proper aircraft. Wright brothers were backed by U.S.Airforce.

Anyways lets pay tribute to a guy who tried and came close to making a flying machine. And lets not think what ancient indians did,today we as a nation have quite a few problems to solve ,its better to concentrate on that. I will sign off at this and discuss no further

Ashini

Thanks very much for your reply, Ashini.

I'm not Indian and I'm, I think, about 5000 miles away from Pune, so a visit to their archives is an undertaking a bit above and beyond.

The post about Mr Talpade was the first I ever made on this forum, about two years ago now. It keeps sinking down into the archives and then gets pulled back out again, (most recently by me, apologies to the weary). I think that's testimony to something or other.

I haven't got any further with it. I skimmed through the Mahabharata and found references to flying chariots, which sounded promising, but also to flying elephants which were less so. The most interesting text is the 11^th Century Samarangana Sutradhara and it's descriptions of the mercury engine. I've found translations of that particular chapter (31) all over the net, but not the book in its entirety. I may yet buy it. The fact that I haven’t done this in the two years since I originally posted this suggests I'm not as serious about Talpade as you'd hope and pretty lazy to boot.

That excerpt I repeatedly end up reading (the one describing the mercury and the lion roaring etc..) sounds very much like advanced science but not in enough detail to make a functioning engine, unless Talpade was very clever indeed.

I wonder if there were other books he may have used. Any suggestions, Ashini?

The texts you already mention are interesting. I have no knowledge of the history of maths, so I'm not sure if Lilavati was ahead of his time with his twelth century indeterminate equations (any mathematicians in the house?). If the rest of the book is anything like the quote on wiki however, it is certainly the most beautiful maths book I've ever heard of.

Rasaratnasamuccaya is tricky to get info on. From what I've read, it's a book about Indian alchemy, which puts me off slightly. I'm hoping that just because something's alchemical in origin, it doesn't mean that once the mysticism is stripped away, there's not some valid chemistry hiding behind it. I am similarly clueless as to whether this is ahead of its time.

An interesting fact I discovered about Indian Alchemy is that they loved their mercury and did all sorts of strange things to it (http://www.infinityfoundation.com/mandala/t_es/t_es_agraw_chemistry_frameset.htm ). It concerns me that perhaps in a multitude of random experiments recorded for posterity, one might crop up that sounds like science; monkeys, type writers, Shakespeare and all that.

My experience of this website is that most mysteries get explained pretty quickly and then the members of the forum who are actually very learned in their respective fields end up repeating themselves ad nauseum to people not prepared to accept a debunking.

I'll cope with a debunking, I'd rather it couldn't be, but I'll cope. Can anyone start with the Samarangana Sutradhara? This text has been mentioned elsewhere on the site, but I don't think I've actually seen it comprehensively ruled out. I know I'll be corrected if I'm wrong on this.

As far as good old Mr Talpade goes, I've still never seen a clipping or heard anything more than the original anecdote.

Oh for a scanned image!

Edited for grandma

[The Gremlin]

hmm..

INDIAN + TONS OF FEATHERS + VODKA = INDIAN FLYING MACHINE

there's no way you are 7 yrs old.