Conscious succubus experience

[Xzeta]

Hey, it's cool. Thanks so much for understanding.

I bear no grudges.

Thats good of you.

[BigDaddy_GFS]

Well, Uraeus, I've never heard of a succubus encounter such as this.

If anything, it sounds more angelic, assuming this was a real experience, and not a hallucination induced by sleep deprivation or something else.

Since succubi are classified as demons, I don't think this would qualify as a demonic encounter. Nor does it seem to be harmful to you.

[Solidsdemise]

Well, Uraeus, I've never heard of a succubus encounter such as this.

If anything, it sounds more angelic, assuming this was a real experience, and not a hallucination induced by sleep deprivation or something else.

Since succubi are classified as demons, I don't think this would qualify as a demonic encounter. Nor does it seem to be harmful to you.

Thanks. I'm sorry if I've hurt anyone by posting this.

[Xzeta]

Thanks. I'm sorry if I've hurt anyone by posting this.

Of course you didn't - it was an interesting post that was very brave of you to share. It was what I late said and we've cleared it up now so not to worry.

[OMS Transmitting]

I know that there isn't.

Not everyone believes in psychic powers. It's feeding stigma if you ask me.

Not everyone believes there's 0 connection btw. the paranormal and mental illness either. There's room for those who connect the two and those who don't. And those who believe it's possible.

I don't see the stigma you're talking about. The cultures that traditionally have treated people w mental illness w/ the most reverence are those in which there's a belief that such individuals also may possess paranormal abilities. Otherwise, such individuals usually just get labeled "psycho" and hidden from society or treated as second class citizens.

Someone mentioned diabetes in comparison. Well diabetes is not generally known to trigger thoughts about angelic and demonic beings; Godly visions or other images typically embraced by many in the paranormal community. Unless or until someone can prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that the physiological imbalances responsible for psychosis aren't simultaneously affecting a spiritual change or perception, there's no basis for claiming the spiritual theory of psychosis as a spreading of a stigma. This is especially true since there is no medical consensus on an explanation for the cause of psychotic/thought disorders. Only theories to offer incomplete explanations. We're not even sure exactly why antipsychotic meds work.

For years I worked closely w a clientelle with acute mental disorders. Nor am I a stranger to them in my personal life. In treating my clients there were many occasions when I noted what appeared to be pointed psychic insights arising in everyday conversations. With hebephrenic schizophenics in particular, there'd be reports from my staff (and I witnessed this too) of all sorts of sudden, detailed info offered up about their lives or someone in the clinician's life ... details they couldn't have known about. It happened so often that the staff joked about it at times.

Another fact: A disproportionately high # of schizophrenic/schizotypal/schizoid pts in our facility (over the years) had been or were self-proclaimed psychics, several making good money at it.

Boorite, this post is in part a response to what you said as well.

Edited January 10, 2007 by OMS Transmitting

[Ciraxis]

anyone ever see the south park episode about this?

[Ashyne]

The succubus was never real. It was, since time immemorial, an entity created by the manifestation of one's inner thoughts and desires into a mental projection that only its creator could perceive. It exists only in the mind, and never in the real world.

[coldethyl]

Not everyone believes there's 0 connection btw. the paranormal and mental illness either. There's room for those who connect the two and those who don't. And those who believe it's possible.

Only narrowly and if it's discussed with much responsibility.

I don't see the stigma you're talking about. The cultures that traditionally have treated people w mental illness w/ the most reverence are those in which there's a belief that such individuals also may possess paranormal abilities. Otherwise, such individuals usually just get labeled "psycho" and hidden from society or treated as second class citizens.

I see the stigma constantly. Trust me, it's there. Always. The second people find out I have a mental illness I am treated differently and it's not reverence I can guarantee you that so saying you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. Adding more aren't helpful. It's hard enough.

Someone mentioned diabetes in comparison.Well diabetes is not generally known to trigger thoughts about angelic and demonic beings; Godly visions or other images typically embraced by many in the paranormal community. Unless or until someone can prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that the physiological imbalances responsible for psychosis aren't simultaneously affecting a spiritual change or perception, there's no basis for claiming the spiritual theory of psychosis as a spreading of a stigma. This is especially true since there is no medical consensus on an explanation for the cause of psychotic/thought disorders. Only theories to offer incomplete explanations. We're not even sure exactly why antipsychotic meds work.

That was me. I mentioned it. I mentioned it because I was told that I no more brought my illness on myself than someone who is a diabetic did or someone with cancer. How many people do you think know that? There are so many people who believe that people with mental illness did something to bring it on themselves. Compare that with the idea that spreads that you can 'develop your psychic abilities' and that just feeds the stigma that the ill person 'must have done something' to be 'that way'. Look, I live with it, I know what I'm talking about.

For years I worked closely w a clientelle with acute mental disorders. Nor am I a stranger to them in my personal life. In treating my clients there were many occasions when I noted what appeared to be pointed psychic insights arising in everyday conversations.

Ever notice them with people who weren't mentally ill? Other people do. So why would the mental illness matter?

With hebephrenia schizophenics in particular, there'd be reports from my staff (and I witnessed this too) of all sorts of sudden, detailed info offered up about their lives or someone in the clinician's life ... details they couldn't have known about. It happened so often that the staff joked about it at times.

People who aren't mentally ill supposedly do this all the time. People who are psychics. I don't see anything wonderous about it at all. Coincidence.

Another fact: A disproportionately high # of schizophrenic/schizotypal/schizoid pts in our facility (over the years) had been or were self-proclaimed psychics, several making good money at it.

But yet the actual psychic phenomenon has still yet to be scientifically proven in a lab.

My main point was that I do not want to see more stigma attached to the mentally ill. Especially the 'theory' that mentally ill people are possessed by demons. That flies all over me to no end. It fires me up. I don't see how a hallucination which can be explained by science brought on by mental illness can be seen as paranormal. It seems to me to be attaching some other burden to mentally ill people that doesn't need to be there. Also if mentally ill people start believing that their hallucinations are ghosts or actual demons what are the consequences of that??

I honestly am not trying to be argumentative as much as it might seem so. I hope people can understand my position. I am very passionate about this.

Edited January 10, 2007 by coldethyl

[Ciraxis]

are we going to start burning people at the stake too? the mentally ill are not possessed, but if people are possessed (if its possible) then they may be seen as mentally ill. this is a touchy one.

[Xzeta]

I do see where coldethyl is coming from. It must be difficult to have people discuss an illness you suffer/have suffered from in this way and no wonder you and others feel uncomfortable about the whole thing.

I suppose because the original author mentioned his own mental health problems in association with his paranormal experience – this thread followed that route. I think though, from what I am reading no-one is suggesting that psychosis and paranormal go hand in hand anymore than psychosis and violence etc.

I am aware that there is much ignorance around mental illness and in particular, delusional ones and that you can automatically be labelled as violent, crazy etc – you don’t also need the stigma of paranormal delusions on top of that.

I hope you do know that no-one is suggesting they go hand in hand as I said above. I think we see the word that we are most touchy about scream out at us which I DO, understand.

[coldethyl]

Thanks Xzeta.

Lots of mentally ill people come here looking for answers and the thing they should be told is to go to their pdoc, not have their delusions fed intentionally or not. That's another thing I worry about.

I've seen recently people discussing possession and mental illness interchangeably and that's the main thing I'm trying to avoid.

[boorite]

I don't see the stigma you're talking about. The cultures that traditionally have treated people w mental illness w/ the most reverence are those in which there's a belief that such individuals also may possess paranormal abilities. Otherwise, such individuals usually just get labeled "psycho" and hidden from society or treated as second class citizens.

So you do see the stigma in this culture. It's true that some cultures treat what we call hallucinations as spiritually meaningful visions. A few investigators in our own culture (I'm thinking mainly of Jung) have also found deep significance in the perceptions of psychotic persons. But Ethyl is right when she says the prevalent attitude toward mental illness in our culture is a negative one. And if I read her correctly, she objects specifically to proposing causal links between mental disorders and the demonic. We could probably all agree that such a view is superstitious, antiquated, and harmful while acknowledging that psychotic persons manifest their "paranormal" experiences in unusual and interesting ways.

Unless or until someone can prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that the physiological imbalances responsible for psychosis aren't simultaneously affecting a spiritual change or perception, there's no basis for claiming the spiritual theory of psychosis as a spreading of a stigma.

I think I understand what you're saying, and I agree. At the same time, any theory that psychosis is caused by demonic activity or vice-versa is an instance of stigmatizing mental illness. As you know, it's a view that was once widely held, and so for some nostalgists (like that bunch up in the White House), it might hold a certain "retro" appeal.

This is especially true since there is no medical consensus on an explanation for the cause of psychotic/thought disorders. Only theories to offer incomplete explanations. We're not even sure exactly why antipsychotic meds work.

Yes. There is even serious doubt as to whether certain mental disorders such as schizophrenia are in fact single clinical entities.

In treating my clients there were many occasions when I noted what appeared to be pointed psychic insights arising in everyday conversations. With hebephrenic schizophenics in particular, there'd be reports from my staff (and I witnessed this too) of all sorts of sudden, detailed info offered up about their lives or someone in the clinician's life ... details they couldn't have known about. It happened so often that the staff joked about it at times.

Yes, this is exactly what I meant when I said that the "psychic" perceptions of persons with thought disorders tend to "erupt" into view. I don't think it's that they have something that others don't. Quite the opposite. I think their rational "filters" are out of order.

So yes, I can see why you'd say "hey, wait a minute" to the idea that mental disorders are completely unrelated to "paranormal" experiences. The fact is that a mental disorder will color all of one's perceptions, including psychic ones, in highly characteristic ways. We can probably all agree on that. And we can probably all agree not to characterize mental illness as anything demonic as well, unless we are feeling acutely nostalgic for the Middle Ages.

[OMS Transmitting]

I said: Not everyone believes there's 0 connection btw. the paranormal and mental illness either. There's room for those who connect the two and those who don't. And those who believe it's possible. Not sure how you came to quantify this w "only narrowly". The statement still stands as true.

I see the stigma constantly. Trust me, it's there. Always.

Here's my problem w your stance here. You are not the sole representee enabled to speak for everyone who suffers from a mental illness. I've offered examples of other mentally ill people who don't agree w you that the paranormal-mental illness theory creates stigma. Some proudly wear it on their sleeves & even make a living out of it. I do feel sympathy for your seeming inability to deal w ppl's reaction to your illness, but often how you're treated has more to do w how you present yourself, than by the title of your mental illness. Nor can you control everyone's reaction to you.

How many people do you think know that? There are so many people who believe that people with mental illness did something to bring it on themselves.

That's an entirely separate issue.

Compare that with the idea that spreads that you can 'develop your psychic abilities' and that just feeds the stigma that the ill person 'must have done something' to be 'that way'.

Not at all. Notice the word you used: "abilities". No negative connotations (rather positive), so no imagined stigma.

Look, I live with it, I know what I'm talking about.

Plenty of others w/mental illness disagree w your perception. As mentioned, I've treated numerous ppl w mental illness of all varieties. Never heard a single complaint from a pt., friend or family member about some alleged "paranormal stigma" in all my years.

People who aren't mentally ill supposedly do this all the time. People who are psychics. I don't see anything wonderous about it at all. Coincidence.

I think you missed my point: I said claims of psychic abilities appear to be disporportionately higher in psychotics than w the rest of the general population. That doesn't mean there are no cases of alleged psychic ability (of claims) amongst those labeled as "normal", it means there appears to be far more individuals claiming these powers amongst the mentally ill population, than in so-called normal population.

But yet the actual psychic phenomenon has still yet to be scientifically proven in a lab.

... Nor is there scientifically proven evidence for a lot of the mental disorders we treat. It's why misdiagnoses occur so often. It's why we're not sure why the agents we use work (or in some cases don't work) in treating mental illness.

My main point was that I do not want to see more stigma attached to the mentally ill. Especially the 'theory' that mentally ill people are possessed by demons.

Unfortunately no one can say whether possession theory is absolutely true or absolutely false at the moment. If you stop taking these paranormal theories so personally for a second, you'll see that people have a right to believe and talk about these theories however they wish - especially when people who are mentally ill have made plenty of claims that they are possessed (or are mediums). This is not just about you and your view of your own illness. There are many other mentally ill people w views contrary to your own. Yes stigmas are attached to most disabilities or health differences. But there's no need to add imaginary ones to the mix.

I honestly am not trying to be argumentative as much as it might seem so. I hope people can understand my position. I am very passionate about this.

Yes I can see you're passionate. And nothing I'm saying is meant to personally undermine you, but I'm also not scared of offending anyone based on presenting an opposing view.

[OMS Transmitting]

But Ethyl is right when she says the prevalent attitude toward mental illness in our culture is a negative one. And if I read her correctly, she objects specifically to proposing causal links between mental disorders and the demonic.

Yes, there are negative and prejudicial attitudes toward most physical and mental disabilities and terminal illness. But you see I have no problem with anyone theorizing about any sort of r-ship btw. mental disorders and paranormal activity (whether it be demonic or otherwise). A theory is different than a declaration of truth. I am against anyone stating de facto that the paranormal is certainly linked to mental disorders. But it makes no sense to stop anyone from theorizing about it. In fact no one has been able to prove or disprove such a connection, so therefore it's equally presumptious to state, as a fact, that there is no such connection. My underlying message is this: People need to get more comfortable with the humble words "we don't know". And until we do for sure, there may or may not be a paranormal connection to mental disorders.

Now that having been said: How do you treat a person who complains about seeing entities or other symptoms that sound like hallucinations or delusions? You start out by utilizing method/s which have statistically been shown to work for most people suffering in that way. First, a complete medical evaluation by a general practitioner (doc), w/a likely referral to see a psychiatrist. Next, other methods, including spiritual avenues can be pursued. Or both can be arranged at the same time.

So we are not arguing whether or not these are clinical issues. We are likely on the same page - that someone in acute psychotic crisis, for ex., should be brought to the ER for drug tx and not shuffled off to the village witchdoctor first.

And we can probably all agree not to characterize mental illness as anything demonic as well, unless we are feeling acutely nostalgic for the Middle Ages.

As already stated, I don't mind if someone supposes that a physiological imbalance could trigger some sort of spiritual threshold to be lowered, leading to all sorts of genuine paranormal experiences (including possession). What makes the idea seem laughable - and please hear me carefully - is that in the Dark Ages it was presumed as FACT, whereas in a more balanced way of thinking it is a possibility, no less and no more. I'm immersed in the medical field and have all sorts of contemporary knowledge. But I also understand that science is not the new God. Because there are many areas in medicine that beget solid explanation, and many areas of near-total ignorance, whereby our medical tx.s act no better than a placebo, for most pt.s. And yet we demonstrate an act of faith via continued treatment w/those agents.

It's important to leave intellectual space in discussions, for all theories and speculations, regardless of how illogical or non-contemporary they may appear at first glance. There is a danger in not discussing such things, which reflects an close-minded attitude that is the antithesis of the spirit of exploration that often leads to breakthrough discoveries in various aspects of life.

[143]

I have to say, I enjoy reading your theories and responses OMS. Could it be that the reason the percentage of people with schizophrenia or any kind of mental disorder have claim to a higher rate of psychic ability and other sorts of preminitions, is because they have opened a part of their brain that we are unable to handle? Is it so much more advanced that the rest of us have not yet advanced ourselves to deal with it?

My friend who experienced a relationship with someone who gradually was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, describes the experience as watching someone open up a part of their brain that was too much to handle. Too much to try and cope with at the rate his coping mechanisms without bipolar were functioning at. My point is the brain is an extremely complicated thing and you can believe what you want of it all. I believe there are connections to the paranormal with the areas of the brain most of us don't use. Somehow people who are diagnosed with a mental disorder may have only just connected with that area we have less frequently used.

I think I'm mixing two theories together but Im not familiar with those disorders. I do however believe there is a connection with paranormal activity in many patients and I don't think its a bad thing or something stigmatized, whatsoever.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

[coldethyl]

First I want to say outright that I'm mentally ill, not stupid. It seems that I need to tell you that.

Not sure how you came to quantify this w "only narrowly". The statement still stands as true.

There is room only narrowly. Since you are portraying yourself as some sort of doctor I am going to assume that you know what responsibility is.

Here's my problem w your stance here. You are not the sole representee enabled to speak for everyone who suffers from a mental illness. I've offered examples of other mentally ill people who don't agree w you that the paranormal-mental illness theory creates stigma.

Well anything you offer would be heresy since you are speaking for someone else. I'm just giving my perspective. I think my perspective might be a bit more valid that yours since I am actually in the situation and you've just 'treated' others in the situation. I never claimed to represent all of the mentally ill BUT I do know something about the rules of this board.

Some proudly wear it on their sleeves & even make a living out of it. I do feel sympathy for your seeming inability to deal w ppl's reaction to your illness, but often how you're treated has more to do w how you present yourself, than by the title of your mental illness. Nor can you control everyone's reaction to you.

I do not want your condescending sympathy.

That's an entirely separate issue.

Not at all. Notice the word you used: "abilities". No negative connotations (rather positive), so no imagined stigma.

The stigma surrounding mental illness is not imagined. If you really worked in the field you'd know that. Your arrogance is astounding.

Plenty of others w/mental illness disagree w your perception. As mentioned, I've treated numerous ppl w mental illness of all varieties. Never heard a single complaint from a pt., friend or family member about some alleged "paranormal stigma" in all my years.

See above statement.

I think you missed my point: I said claims of psychic abilities appear to be disporportionately higher in psychotics than w the rest of the general population. That doesn't mean there are no cases of alleged psychic ability (of claims) amongst those labeled as "normal", it means there appears to be far more individuals claiming these powers amongst the mentally ill population, than in so-called normal population.

So show us the numbers and the studies to back up this claim.

... Nor is there scientifically proven evidence for a lot of the mental disorders we treat. It's why misdiagnoses occur so often. It's why we're not sure why the agents we use work (or in some cases don't work) in treating mental illness.

There are studies upon studies on how the medicine for certain illnesses work on the brain. How can you even make that statement? Many people are misdiagnosed because a lot of the symptoms are the same and overlap.

Unfortunately no one can say whether possession theory is absolutely true or absolutely false at the moment. If you stop taking these paranormal theories so personally for a second, you'll see that people have a right to believe and talk about these theories however they wish - especially when people who are mentally ill have made plenty of claims that they are possessed (or are mediums). This is not just about you and your view of your own illness.

See you are bordering on a personal attack here. There is no need to try and subtly demean me. The idea that mental illness is caused by possession is ridiculous. That is what is known as a stigma. The fact that you entertain the idea is remarkable.

There are many other mentally ill people w views contrary to your own. Yes stigmas are attached to most disabilities or health differences. But there's no need to add imaginary ones to the mix.

Yes I can see you're passionate. And nothing I'm saying is meant to personally undermine you, but I'm also not scared of offending anyone based on presenting an opposing view.

No you just like being offensive. I can see that now. I tried to state my points broadly and explain my point of view and you decide to try make it more personal than I was taking it. You might want to check out the rules of the board before you continue.

[Lord Storm]

If I am not mistaken the OP posted about a possible Succubus encounter. I assume that anyone who posts on this forum must have a belief in or is open to the existence of the supernatural. The fact that the OP has a mental illness does not discount the possiblility that he did in fact encounter a Succubus(or similar creature) or indeed increase the likelyhood. Being under severe fatigue is a more likely cause of a halucination, but for 6 hours? It is indeed mysterious, either way it is good that this had a positive effect.....I may have had a similar experience not as intenese although the years may have dulled that down (22 years ago), very similar to what the OP described....except one thing...3 other people saw this being on a number of occassions.

Everyone in this forum seems pretty genuine and I think treads carefully not to offend others. I think Coldethyl is maybe reading too much into what some people are saying and should try and be more objective....some subjects are touchy which I understand, but then some people can be too sensitive. Just bear in mind no one here is trying to offend you and if they do it is unintentional. Everyone percieves things differently and what some percieve and report as evidence is very real and true for them but may not be real and true for you.

[Solidsdemise]

I have to say, I enjoy reading your theories and responses OMS. Could it be that the reason the percentage of people with schizophrenia or any kind of mental disorder have claim to a higher rate of psychic ability and other sorts of preminitions, is because they have opened a part of their brain that we are unable to handle? Is it so much more advanced that the rest of us have not yet advanced ourselves to deal with it?

My friend who experienced a relationship with someone who gradually was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, describes the experience as watching someone open up a part of their brain that was too much to handle. Too much to try and cope with at the rate his coping mechanisms without bipolar were functioning at. My point is the brain is an extremely complicated thing and you can believe what you want of it all. I believe there are connections to the paranormal with the areas of the brain most of us don't use. Somehow people who are diagnosed with a mental disorder may have only just connected with that area we have less frequently used.

Beautiful post... And yes, OMS I appreciate your perspective as a professional who has a broader perspective, more education, and different experience than I do.

As I mentioned in the original post, I struggle with bipolar. During my first manic episode, I did have the same sense that something had been opened in my mind... It first started with creative ideas, uncanny social abilities, brighter colors, vibrant taste, and you know the rest of the deal with mania. But what struck me the most was that I felt a connection with those ideas, other people, other objects. Later this progressed to a perspective that no ordinary person including myself can handle, like all the knowledge I had plus more was seeping through everything I saw in my eyes. Although I had superb coping mechanisms at this point and lasted a long time without breaking, I couldn't handle being taken beyond that to the psychotic features.

In short, it opened up another world, a part of my mind through which everything poured... Mine happened to be very spiritual, because I was a very strong Christian. The strangest thing about it all to me is the sensation that everything made sense, thus reflecting my own weakness.

[Solidsdemise]

If I am not mistaken the OP posted about a possible Succubus encounter. I assume that anyone who posts on this forum must have a belief in or is open to the existence of the supernatural. The fact that the OP has a mental illness does not discount the possiblility that he did in fact encounter a Succubus(or similar creature) or indeed increase the likelyhood. Being under severe fatigue is a more likely cause of a halucination, but for 6 hours? It is indeed mysterious, either way it is good that this had a positive effect.....I may have had a similar experience not as intenese although the years may have dulled that down (22 years ago), very similar to what the OP described....except one thing...3 other people saw this being on a number of occassions.

Actually, I failed to mention that although the experience carried me through for a while, it ended up hurting me even more. One way I actually found relates to what the Middle Eastern view had to say about the succubus. Another way is I ended up hurting another girl that I was obsessed with. If you want to know more about why it hurt me, please send me a message as I don't want to post it here.

The experience was both a healing one and very destructive. It was as if I learned what sex was meant to be, but she couldn't resist screwing me over in the end. I doubt she'll come back :-)

I also had other experiences of entities coming to me in my sleep a few months before the one I described. They were male and tried to rape me... I tried to make them stop but the only thing that worked was to send them away in the name of Jesus Christ... and they left. At this point, I was in much more touch with reality, but not exactly there. I don't know what to call that and I'm not saying it's a genuine incubus encounter... It felt real, though, but not as real as when I was awake.

^^food for thought?

[Radian]

Yes, there are negative and prejudicial attitudes toward most physical and mental disabilities and terminal illness. But you see I have no problem with anyone theorizing about any sort of r-ship btw. mental disorders and paranormal activity (whether it be demonic or otherwise). A theory is different than a declaration of truth. I am against anyone stating de facto that the paranormal is certainly linked to mental disorders. But it makes no sense to stop anyone from theorizing about it. In fact no one has been able to prove or disprove such a connection, so therefore it's equally presumptious to state, as a fact, that there is no such connection.

So why have a theory when the whole proposterous thesis is blown to smitherines with the DSM? Why bother? Why assume or gleefully conclude folks can be demonically possessed, but using for ex., psychotic disorder as some cover up? It's ludicrous. Boy, those demons are getting pretty darn brilliant! LOL!!

Now that having been said: How do you treat a person who complains about seeing entities or other symptoms that sound like hallucinations or delusions? You start out by utilizing method/s which have statistically been shown to work for most people suffering in that way. First, a complete medical evaluation by a general practitioner (doc), w/a likely referral to see a psychiatrist. Next, other methods, including spiritual avenues can be pursued. Or both can be arranged at the same time.

There are a lot of people out there that are classified as mentally ill--- These people fight that very stigma that you are enforcing here. I hope these folks here don't take what you say too personally.

Demon possession is the RARE thing. You didn't talk too much of the subject (being possessed) I noticed. More on the so called Psychology of it or delusional aspect of the subject... how about discuss both!! ???

BLA BLA BLA nevermind, just present a genuine case of possession first... in all of your experience surely you have one.

Edited January 11, 2007 by Sunny98

[coldethyl]

So I guess I'm taking things too personally.

Must be because I'm crazy.

Sorry for derailing everyone.

[Radian]

So I guess I'm taking things too personally.

Must be because I'm crazy.

Sorry for derailing everyone.

You have every right to say whatever you want!!!!!! ( YEP! Youre crazy as hell-- but thats ha-- ha crazy not demon from hell kinda crazy ..)

and don't let that stuff get to ya... its not worth getting your blood pressure up. It's really not, Ethyl.

[bLu3 de 3n3rgy]

I can see where your frustrations lay Ethyl and I don't think you're derailing.

It may not be so previlant on this site as it can be outside of paranormal communities, but you do see it sometimes when people start a thread about an unexplained experience and the first thing they do is state they aren't crazy or insane, etc... It's sadly a stigma to many that unexplained/paranormal encouters = crazy/unsound mind or could be seen as 'damaging' to a persons reputation. I'm not sure why really, but it does show somewhat that people are connecting the two when like you say they have nothing to do with each other...

On the other hand, from where I stand with the paranormal, it gets old.... many times people go out there way to convince that they aren't crazy and will test the waters to check my sanity! we have to put up with perceptions such as dishonesty, fraudeulence as well as notions of being in 'druggy, trippy coo coo land'. But then negitive feelings about the paranormal stems partially from the frauds and hoaxers (warrens for example) and the hardcore religious fanatics don't help..

We may be along way foward from the witch hunt/burning days, but in the end I agree that there's still a bit to go with how the paranormal or unknown is generally viewed.

As for demon possession and the demonologists, they talk aload of crap IMO.... demon possession is only a problem to those who believe in it, it's purely a culture/religious/belief system problem....

Edited to add - It perhaps has alot to do with the fact that some skeptics can't accept that some people do have experiences, that in order to make sense it has to either be that the person is making it up or they are hallucinating. Sometimes it could well be an hallucination caused by tiredness, SP, or drugs and what some people misunderstand is that halluncinations aren't always an indication of a mental illness....

Edited January 11, 2007 by Anvil

[Xzeta]

Its sad that this has turned into a rather heated debate because originally it was pretty interesting and thought provoking.

I feel we should respect coldethyl's feelings - if it makes her feel uncomfortable, or in any way negative - then she has the right to say. Even though I do have thoughts and ideas that I would want to discuss - its just not as important as upsetting someone, esp as I have never had a psychotic episode and feel I would have had to, to be able to offer any further debate.

I hope the author of the original post feels he did get something from this though

[Opus Magnus]

Don't underestimate the power of lack of sleep. After you've been up for so many days, 3 being a good number, really strange things start happening to your perception. Personally, I believe that it starts to open your third eye.

Uraeus, if it was succubus, she'll probably be back. Don't let a succubus trick you, the are devils.

By the way, what channel is the X-Files on now? That's one of my favorite shows, but I can't find a channel that plays it anymore.